Another new mapper (Also read: my question thread) (also pics) (also also wik)

akai · July 2010

<div class="IPBDescription">well just new to spark...</div>So, I'm coming from Worldcraft/Hammer mapping, I doubt anyone would recognize my name but that is where the bulk of my mapping experience is. With that, coming from the Worldcraft/Hammer I'm used to brushes and triggers and what not. Now from what I've gathered, triggers or their equivalent have not been implemented yet. Which is fine, because I'm just trying to familiarize/wrap my head around the spark editor for the time being.

While doing this i've came across a few.....problems, that for the life of me I just cannot figure out. (which btw, I have been looking for tutorials, some howto's, but I can't find them) Also note, I have watched about every spark editor video on youtube that I could find, even this 11-part time lapse video which impressed the ###### out of me.

And now, pics + questions. Thanks to you if you're still reading at this point...

So this is what I've made in a good 2-3 hours of combined work.
<img src="http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1965/nsakaieditorscreenshot.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

So far I am loving this editor, even in it's current state of development it is crazy powerful and I can tell that it has tons of untapped potential. Even so I'm having a hard time telling if the problems I'm having are from my inexperience and lack of knowledge, or if I am doing it correctly and it's just because of bugs/ or being an alpha.

First being: <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Making a square and resizing</span>

So First I select the area where I want the square to be.
<img src="http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3036/makeasquare.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Then I select the new area
<img src="http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1764/selectasquare.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

And raise it up using the extrude tool
<img src="http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1442/raiseasquare.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

But say after I do that, a couple hours down the road I need to re-size this...square and I go to "destrude" the square I raised using the same method.
<img src="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/340/wtfsquare.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

It does this...Now to me, it seems that I should be able to reduce it the same way that I raised it. But it's just collapsing the top of the square into itself. After thinking about it, I came to three conclusions as to why it does this. 1, it's an alpha and that's just how it is for now. 2, I'm doing it completely! wrong. and 3, It has something to do with how 3-D objects work, or the way vertices and edges work.

So any input there would be great. I have a couple more questions, but before I put the effort into asking, I'm just gonna go with one question at a time :-) thanks if you are still reading still, and thanks for any input :)

((I should note that I do know how to resize that square by selecting the edges that line the top of the square, but that just seems .....harder than it should be))

Insane · July 2010

If you want to lower the height of that block, you can just select the top face and move it down with the "move" tool.

UncleRay · July 2010

Awesome job! I'm glad you took the extra initiative to purchase the SE for this :D

Some tips while mapping:

Consistency; Not always a good thing. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Keep it short, simple, and sweet :D
Textures: Make it look sensible. If it looks out of the area, use something else!
Have fun with it. If you like it, don't be afraid to show us. Comments, suggestions, and thoughts are the best way to take your map even further. So if someone says to brighten up your area, or darken it, don't take it personal :D

Good luck!

Thaldarin · July 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Jul 18 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Awesome job! I'm glad you took the extra initiative to purchase the SE for this :D

Some tips while mapping:

Consistency; Not always a good thing. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Keep it short, simple, and sweet :D</div>

From what I've seen of ns2_tram and another level previewed in the latest blog post, consistency is a direction the team have gone in. I'm confused why that's bad?

pSyk0mAn · July 2010

Check out the tutorial in my sig (no youtube), which might give you some ideas how to handle things in spark and what else is possible even when you are not going for curved surfaces.

TSS · July 2010

I see the problem, your still thinking in brushes ^^ extrude and destrude a brush, and this would work.

You need to think in faces. So instead of a box, think of it as 6 sides positioned to form a box which are connected together. Also keep in mind that any of these faces can be flipped (selection tool -> select face -> ctrl+f), and can be manually made between lines (selection tool -> select lines that make the edge -> alt+c). Further keep in mind that spark might not always make the face automatically, but it'll *always* make a manual face. If you don't see it, either you missed a line in the edge or the face is flipped and you need to manually flip it back. Personally ai think this is the most powerfull feature since there isn't a 2d shape you cannot make a face of. And then extrude it to make a box in that shape or destrude it to make a room in that shape.

I remember from when i played around in hammer that there, you're more inclined to use the top-front-side views, to position blocks and minimize the chance of leaks. Here in Spark i find it much easyer to just maximize the perspective view (helps in performance, too!) and draw the entire map by hand. I haven't used the rectangle tool in ages (something about weld vertices not working properly or like i'd expect it to). Just the line tool, move and rotate tools, and the circular tool for when i need something curved.

those ground patches which you could manipulate in HL2 to make sloped ground are easy to make too. just use the rectangular tool to make a patch of the relevant size, then draw lines between it untill you have a grid.

So much for geometry, about the screenshot, it looks nice but compared to HL2, spark is really, really efficient with lights. You can have an amazing number that casts shadows, and a gigantic number without (a room like that can have 40-50 lights easy. me and other mappers already have 100+ in LOS with good performance). And ambient light is just amazing.

akai · July 2010

Thanks for the responses guys. After reading what you all have said, I think I understand a little more. I really just need to throw out how I made made in Hammer if I'm going to go down this road, lol.

The Spark Editor feels more like what I think a real "map editor" should be. Hammer is a map editor too, don't get me wrong, but just when compared it seems like it has more of a idiot proof design. Spark will take some getting used too, but I plan on moving to this editor permanently so every bit of information I can shovel in my head will only help me :)

Thanks again all.

also thanks psy for the tut links :)

TSS · July 2010

no probs looking forward to play your map ^^. I do assume your gonna make one? :p

akai · July 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Jul 18 2010, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>no probs looking forward to play your map ^^. I do assume your gonna make one? :p</div>

oh yea, I won't really start on one till I figure out what I'm completely doing, but once I do, I plan on staying in the community and making maps for as long as possible :)

Kester · July 2010

Think of it this way: Every time you extrude you forget about any previous extrusion on that surface and start a new one.

For example I extruded this square 4 times, and you can see each of the 4 extrusions.

<img src="http://www.conception-design.net/stuff/extrude.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />