Gorges, Floaters and RTs
RobB
ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Instead of "stealing" one of the most important roles from the gorge, let both the floaters and the gorges place RTs.
I don't know what's planned, I know that much, but as an attacker I won't have the need to stay near a floater to guard it nor do I really want to as aliens are mostly based on guerilla tactics opposed to the marines.
Marines have the psychological bonus that MA<strike><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->S<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></strike>Cs (it's MACs) will repair their armor, which lets them stay close to them by default.
A Floater is for recon, not healing.
Oh dear Lord, I hope you get what I'm trying to say.
I don't know what's planned, I know that much, but as an attacker I won't have the need to stay near a floater to guard it nor do I really want to as aliens are mostly based on guerilla tactics opposed to the marines.
Marines have the psychological bonus that MA<strike><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->S<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></strike>Cs (it's MACs) will repair their armor, which lets them stay close to them by default.
A Floater is for recon, not healing.
Oh dear Lord, I hope you get what I'm trying to say.
Comments
A Floater is for recon, not healing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You meant MAC's. MASCs are siege tanks.
Er sry, evolve into structure. While the mac doesn't. And the mac can build many more things.
They're to slow and stupid to be that important, and you lose them when you place something.
This is especially bad for remote locations when there are battles raging that draw in a lot of alien players, nobody is there to defend the snails.
From what I've seen yet the marines can take down buildings quickly (I assume its designed and will stay this way), so it's urgent for aliens to spread wide and fast quickly, just as it was in NS1.
To me, the floaters feel like the fixed resource system of NS1, seriously crippling the alien development if there are many players present.
I did not have the chance to test the marine version of building placing yet (skulks in base before i am in the CC), but I believe they can still place and build structures without macs, if not: give it to them this option to balance it out for a bit again.
Er sry, evolve into structure. While the mac doesn't. And the mac can build many more things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought this was a bug similar to the MAC's stop working when they build a structure. If it is this way it would depend on how much resources to takes to build a floater vs a MAC. Which I do not have in front of me right now.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I allways understood the floater as a distraction for marines, not as a core unit for the alien team.
They're to slow and stupid to be that important, and you lose them when you place something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it is the a core unit as in without it you cannot build RT's and other alien structures. Similar to how Marines cant build structures without a MAC and both need to be defended when they go to remote map locations to build or anywhere outside the base area.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is especially bad for remote locations when there are battles raging that draw in a lot of alien players, nobody is there to defend the snails.
From what I've seen yet the marines can take down buildings quickly (I assume its designed and will stay this way), so it's urgent for aliens to spread wide and fast quickly, just as it was in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if the alien team chooses not to defend their floater and in turn if the Marine choices not to defend their MAC's then neither team will make much headway. It only takes one player to defend a floater/MAC, unless they are really intent on killing them, and if no one on the team wishes to defend it then that is a failure of teamwork, not a failure of the design.
The time it takes to down buildings for marines vs aliens I have not exactly looked at, so I cannot say if either team can do it quicker then the other one, but from a quick glance it seems that both teams can take down structures pretty quickly if not properly defended, but this is something that would become more clear when hit detection improves.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me, the floaters feel like the fixed resource system of NS1, seriously crippling the alien development if there are many players present.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I stated earlier this is dependent on the team themselves, if no one chooses to defending the floater/MAC then neither team will make headway as nothing will get built. Its only crippling if the team chooses not to allocate their player resources correctly to where it is needed.
On gorges:
This is the one class I had a lot of time with, because I always loved playing gorge in NS1 and now NS2 (GOOOOOOOOO Belly Slide!). The gorge as it stands now is a support class, you build hydras to defend locations and heal alien structures/floaters/egg/team members. For the couple of games we had a alien commander I would mostly go gorge and be on guard duty for the floater as I can heal and fight at the same time to help keep the floater alive until it gets to the location and finished building. Then I would switch over to team support when nothing was being built and heal teammates and put up hydras to help stem the Marine advance. All in all the gorge fit this role perfectly, it was a role divided in NS1 due to the building of structures being placed squarely on the gorges shoulders, which turned a lot of people away from playing it because they wanted to get in the action. In NS2 the gorge takes a in-direct building role by helping keep the floaters alive so that they can build structures, which allows him to focus more on supporting the team then being the cornerstone to alien advancement. Also belly slides are really fun.
NS1 structure building style = ick. I want to play the game, not press "e" for thirty seconds. That's boring.
Giving both players and AI bots the ability to build? Bad idea. I don't want meta-game developing which excludes builder bots from building and forces me to build structures. That's a possibility I REALLY do not want to see.
I disagree with this suggestion on those grounds.
Yeah, I hope the current game's state becomes more playable. Pretty natural desire, I guess.
Allowing Gorges to place RTs would be very beneficial. It would give them a bit of something extra to do.
Just healing and setting up their Wall-o-Lame isn't terribly exciting, and I don't think their battle prowness has improved much at all. At least by dropping RTs you can feel like you're adding to the whole economy in my mind. This also alleviates the Glowie restraint though, and if that is an intentional balance mechanic we will need to re-think some things.
That said, I don't know how the resource model works in NS2 so probably shouldn't comment at all.
Also, perhaps the real strength of the Gorge will be that even though a Floater has to start building the RT, the Gorge perhaps is the only other alien with build speed-up abilities. This would definitely make them very special since they have to get those RTs up ASAP.
building buildings was always the most boring part of ns1. and adding npc buildings to both sides is super cool imo.
From what i remember they dont cost anything to make, so theres nothing to worry about there. If your worried about them getting killed off in remote locations then defend them.
I think it will add a whole new level of teamwork and strategy to have these npcs running around doing important (yet boring) tasks while players fight to kill/defend them (the fun part).
I want to know who came up with the idea for the npc builder because i want to give them one of my ice cream sandwiches
I want to know who came up with the idea for the npc builder because i want to give them one of my ice cream sandwiches<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didnt find it boring at all to sneak my rts into enemy territory, off the heavily patroled routes.
You cant imagine the funny chatter when they found I plastered half their "secured nozzles" with RTs already.
And I would serve him the special "the offspring" type sandwich.
Making both teams to rely on their "SCV" to build their Resource Structures, Tech Structures, and Upgrade Structures, makes both sides even and easy to Command for both teams.
Also, it provides a sense of importance to actually "Escort" another object.
In NS1, most Players just leave their Gorges to do their own thing, since they can fight back. The Drifter and MAC cannot, so it makes it actually important to protect them(since they can not protect themselves).
It also means all actualy real Players can be used for combat, and not forced to sit in base waiting to unlock the Tech Tree for the Commanders.
*****
Conclusion: Vastly superior to NS1. Commanding is more like a good RTS(Starcraft). There is no cross-babysitting required.
This is why the Gorge can only build the Hydra(so far), because it is a purely Offensive Structure that does not unlock any Upgrades.
So anything that the Gorge gets to build(added in the future), will probably have no actual effect on the Commander's(s') role.
The Gorge might get an "Aura Chamber/Structure/Turret", which its sole purpose would be to buff the stats of Alien Players in a radius, but not unlock anything in the Tech Tree.
NS1 Conversion Example:
A chamber that Cloaks nearby Kharaa, increases Adrenaline Recharge, and Heals nearby Players. But it does not unlock the Upgrades Carparace, Regeneration, Redemption, Adrenaline, Silence, Celerity, Cloak, Focus, and Scent of Fear.
Awesome sauce.
Exactly what i was thinking, and exactly what is wrong with NS1... the alien team had to much freedom to adapt 1000x faster then the marine team to conditions in the map. Couple this with the super high speed movement abilities, or extreme armor abilities, and it's no surprise why NS1 was such an crippled concept. And the fact that some people want to re-implement these ###### up game design choices in NS2 (when even the devs said NO) makes me want to ::facepalm::.
<b>Infestation Chamber </b>
and it could do the following:
- expand infestation in a radius around itself, buffing all structures built on top of the infestation
- provide slow healing (or damage resistance) for structures and aliens on that infestation
- allow the Alien Commander to generate a Floater from the infestation chamber (at a much slower rate, say one per minute?)
This would allow the Gorge to still be able to tend to his "garden" as well as expand his role as a support class by helping the commander get Floaters into remote locations without having to float them all the way there. Now obviously this could only be fully implemented once dynamic infestation is in the game, but the ability to generate floaters and buff nearby structures could be implemented sooner.
Just a thought, enjoying testing the alpha so far :)
Go and abuse an armory, or think before you type.
also, show me where they posted a no to the designs i loved in NS, that made NS unique in my eyes.