<!--quoteo(post=1786214:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:44 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786214"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They open outwards when it opens its mouth.
Like most of the onos armor it's defensive, they are supposed to be siege weapons and bullet sponges, I assumed those were there as a sort of rollcage for the mouth when it charges so it doesn't bust its teeth in by doing so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea if you seen the trailer I believe it would completely disprove that those things impede devour. What impedes devour is that it supposedly was sooooo horrible for the player to deal with the consequence of going rambo while a onos is around and end up waiting in the stomach of one, and then the re-spawn because the commander hasn't built more than one IP. That and some... wonderful(?) people just use it as a hit and run. Going off on a slightly related tangent about that respawn... I've had worse waiting times in TF2 because of stupidity and dying. 15 seconds long and sometimes if my team is bad it could be 20ish.
<!--quoteo(post=1786677:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:13 PM:name=Vman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vman @ Jul 27 2010, 04:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yea if you seen the trailer I believe it would completely disprove that those things impede devour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I stand defeated. Yet devour should stay. Was a great way for aliens to make a comeback against a heavy rush. Instead of completely remove it, it should be a 2nd or 3rd hive ability.
Pretty sure you failed from line 1. This isn't an "intergalactic war," it's an infestation, an outbreak. The Kharaa aren't a military force.
Also I don't remember a damn thing about any timeline advancement (or a timeline in the first place), "evolution of technology," or anything else you base the entire OP from.
Also, basing fluff/art decisions primarily off mechanical play in the first game is backwards. It's a nice little nod to the past when it's convenient to do something like that, but not a priority.
I generally agree with the OP, although I wasn't personally bothered too much by the new weapons, they could definitely stand to lose some weight. The one thing that bothers me quite a bit is how the shotgun is loaded; it seems like a case of designing something to look cool while totally ignoring how it makes no sense.
Okay, this topic drew enough ire from me that I actually registered so I could say something.
What bothers me the most about Kira is the sense of entitlement he seems to have. Especially when he started talking about how the Devs should in fact give a crap about all these nitpicks he has about their aesthetic choices because after all, HE has supplied them MONEY from HIS OWN POCKET. Great, way to go, so have most of the people here, and some of them have contributed more then you. You bought a product for $40, you are not an investor. It's fine if you want to point out these little details, but demanding to be heard about this, especially when what you want to change would in fact require a major revamp in the modeling, animation, and texturing departments. And in the end, what would it accomplish, besides setting back development time by weeks if not months?
I actually have a valid complaint with the current build, in that it's almost impossible to play because currently it hasn't been optimized at all. But I know the Devs are working on it, that this is in fact THEIR game, and whining about it isn't going to do crap.
In closing, I can't wait to see Kira selectively quotes this so he doesn't have to deal with any kind of broader issue besides "The guns are too bulky!" But you never know, maybe he'll just ignore this entirely.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What bothers me the most about Kira is the sense of entitlement he seems to have. Especially when he started talking about how the Devs should in fact give a crap about all these nitpicks he has about their aesthetic choices because after all, HE has supplied them MONEY from HIS OWN POCKET. Great, way to go, so have most of the people here, and some of them have contributed more then you. You bought a product for $40, you are not an investor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Devs should care what the community has to say and apparently do considering this is their ideas and suggestions forum. Funny, I thought forums were a place to discuss things. I posted my opinion here so that people could either support my opinion or post their counter opinions. People like CPCheebs posted their opinions yet you only sought to attack me and point out a rather obvious problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's fine if you want to point out these little details, but demanding to be heard about this, especially when what you want to change would in fact require a major revamp in the modeling, animation, and texturing departments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant remember asking for them to shift everything from making the actual game to aesthetics. Just do something about it when possible. If anything soon maybe do some sketch work.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually have a valid complaint with the current build, in that it's almost impossible to play because currently it hasn't been optimized at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you. I can only play on a server I create(2/3 game crashes before I can play). If I do get to play, it crashes in under two minutes while play time is extremely choppy. Res nodes are blue, I can't see my pistol or axe. The only time I was able to connect to a server the game crashed as soon as I heard people talk on the microphone yet only had a black screen. It then crashed. My specs exceed recommended.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In closing, I can't wait to see Kira selectively quotes this so he doesn't have to deal with any kind of broader issue besides "The guns are too bulky!" But you never know, maybe he'll just ignore this entirely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It makes sense just fine. Alien armor has already been well explained, and as for the bulkier guns part of that is for higher firepower so as to penetrate that new armor, but part of it is also to house the increased technology needed for the new nanite defense mechanism that the marine equipment requires to keep it from being jammed/destroyed by the evolving bacterium.
As for the top loading shotgun, I believe I explained that in the general forum with the leaked technical response memo on the Vortex. Top loading is to A) Give the marines another visible reminder to reload, B) make sure there's always a round ready to be fired, C) Provide the needed room for the extra nanite technology mentioned above. With nanite enabled shells, it's not like they need a long barrel to fire from, after all.
As for the Onos tusks, remember that alien evolution is also semi-intelligent design. Onos devour was actually a leading cause of onos death as it slowed the beast down, and even if successful meant the resources that the bacterium and the hive could have used from the corpse have been absorbed into the Onos -- wasted. The tusks are there specifically to prevent devour as you surmised, but because the ability was mkaing them less effective, not more.
<!--quoteo(post=1788429:date=Jul 29 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Jul 29 2010, 11:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the top loading shotgun, I believe I explained that in the general forum with the leaked technical response memo on the Vortex. Top loading is to A) Give the marines another visible reminder to reload, B) make sure there's always a round ready to be fired, C) Provide the needed room for the extra nanite technology mentioned above. With nanite enabled shells, it's not like they need a long barrel to fire from, after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except none of that waffle justifies it. A) What reminder does top loading give that loading anywhere else doesnt? Especially considering the huge ammo counter on the back. B) Thats what the pump action is for. C) Sorry but, lolwut?
Let me make this really simple for you. A pump action shotgun is essentially 2 tubes, one on top of the other. The bottom tube is the magazine, it holds the ammo. The pump action is located here, because thats what feeds the next round into the barrel (before fellow gun geeks jump me for that one, im deliberately over-simplifying). The barrel is the top tube, where the contents of the shells is expelled forwards.
With the NS2 shotgun, we can see that its pump action, and that the pump action is under the gun. That means the lower of the 2 tubs must be the magazine.
We can also see that shells are being loaded into the top, directly into the barrel, one after another. The only thing this would achieve is a queue of shells in the barrel, none of which could be fired.
Invoking nanites here is like saying "it works by magic", except that guns are straightforward. They dont need magic to work, just sensible design.
It's physically impossible for a shotgun to work like this, nanites or no.
We'll I think that all the designs look cool, and that we should keep them the way they are. now we appear to be at an impasse.
their not going to change their models and designs, they looked at tons of ideas and sketches before they even started the 3d modeling process. And they obviously picked the ones they thought fit the feel they were going for and looked the coolest.
The way your saying it makes it seem like you think its some sort of problem that needs to be fixed. As if they MUST redo/change it because the community [or a small segment of] doesn't like the way it looks or it doesn't make sense to them.
And i know you probably know that their probably not going to change it and your 'just saying' but it seems kind of pointless to still be having this thread at this point
Dont get me wrong, I dont care that its top loading. As far as Im concerned, they could have made it muzzle loading and I'd still happily play the game. What bothers me is the crap attempts at justifying it.
<!--quoteo(post=1788411:date=Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM:name=kira`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kira` @ Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I cant remember asking for them to shift everything from making the actual game to aesthetics. Just do something about it when possible. If anything soon maybe do some sketch work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You complained about almost every single visual element of the marine and alien models, and in the OP you state "Point of this? Most of the NS2 stuff makes no sense. Please make it make sense." For them to adhere to your personal tastes, the design team would have to go back to the concept state, remodel, re-animate and totally revamp each element you have complained about. Your entire post is overwhelmingly arrogant. I think you need to take a step back and realise that the developers know ALOT more about game design than you. I would not have minded your complaints had you not sounded so insulting. I apologise if you think I'm being harsh, I understand this wasn't your intention (or at least I hope it wasn't) but you honestly need to divert your energy to providing feedback on things worthwile. The developers are not going to change all these elements to suit your tastes, and I am very glad that is the case.
In regards to your 'argument', you need to seriously realise this is a video game. You are dissecting a work of fiction with scientific analysis, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?
<!--quoteo(post=1788411:date=Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM:name=kira`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kira` @ Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Devs should care what the community has to say and apparently do considering this is their ideas and suggestions forum. Funny, I thought forums were a place to discuss things. I posted my opinion here so that people could either support my opinion or post their counter opinions. People like CPCheebs posted their opinions yet you only sought to attack me and point out a rather obvious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, developers should listen to the community, but not as much as you seem to think. If the NS2 team tried to deal with every single individual complaint or suggestion, each one claiming superiority over the next, the end result would be a pile of ######.
So yes, criticise away, but be polite when addressing the developers, especially when your suggestion involves re-working the entire visual scheme of the bloody game.
Don't like the models? Make something yourself that you do like! One of the most mod freindly engines of all time - if you start now you could be done in time for release :P
This is the I/S forum, we should be discussing Ideas and Suggestions. Not arguing that Person 'A' is an idiot for posting an idea/suggestion and Person'2' is a moron for not liking the idea/suggestion. Wish a mod would come delete such off topic immature bickering.
The TSA weren't frontline troops used in 'conventional' wars. They were a pawn police force created by the Trans-System Governments. Underfunded, these technological upgrades (mobility, more mobile firepower) might be all the tech they could afford, not necessarily the best in the fictional universe.
<!--quoteo(post=1788513:date=Jul 29 2010, 09:43 AM:name=TempesT487)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TempesT487 @ Jul 29 2010, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I apologise if you think I'm being harsh.
In regards to your 'argument', you need to seriously realise this is a video game. You are dissecting a work of fiction with scientific analysis, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not too harsh at all.
Yes I realize that this is a fictional game. I read a lot of science fiction and like to watch science fiction. When I read science fiction or watch a movie I like it to make sense and some of them actually really try to, even explaining how their weapons/technology works in logical terms. Also in the game industry today, games are being met with higher standards to seem more realistic to the player. For example the physics in almost every game now, ability to see your legs, destructible buildings(Bad Company 2, yet primitive) and objects. Some games even take it as far as gun+ammo weight, hunger and taking into account multiple injury types. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to stop in NS2 to take a ###### or eat a ration. If the Devs want to make the game as immersible of an experience as the first, they should think about what makes sense. There's nothing harder to immerse yourself in than something you know can't/won't exist. To that last line, all of you saying ITS A FIGHT BETWEEN ALIENS AND SPACE MARINES HOW MUCH DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? Well, imo aliens are out there. Maybe not these ones but there will be aliens and if we fight them, we will have bullets. I call an AK47 or an AA-12.
The shotgun doesn't make sense, the rifle is overly bulky and the weapons look like they could be in Halo 4. Especially with the shotgun, it looks like you're just firing a large box. As for Alien armor, I agree with some of the places it is already present(front of the body, along spine) but believe it could have spread further along the body Also, marines still look like they're preparing for man vs man war. Oh snap aliens, get the (futuristic) flak jackets! The way I understood NS1 was humans being like what the hell aliens in our ship(s)/space stations/planetside outposts and then entering in combat with the weapons they had to fight other men(correct me if I'm wrong). When I read about marine and alien evolution I thought ok, the marines were armed to fight men and now have adapted to fight the aliens. Seemingly not except for the horrible explanations involving nanites.
Use your noggin', that doesn't help because the FOV is independent of screen size and only weakly dependent on aspect ratio.
You may think of a widescreen as a 4:3 screen with extra screen space tacked onto the sides, but it is just as valid to think of it as a 4:3 screen with some screen space lopped off the top and bottom(this is in fact how many of the early widescreen movie theaters worked; some nutter simply masked off the top and bottom of the projected image from standard 35 mm film).
Developers generally choose a compromise; wide screens get wider horizontal field of view, but less vertical field of view; keeping the solid angle subtended by the screen roughly constant.
<!--quoteo(post=1783439:date=Jul 26 2010, 01:37 AM:name=ryanericw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryanericw @ Jul 26 2010, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1783439"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a 28" 1200p monitor, 1920x1200, and still takes up about 25% of my screen with it's uglyness. I am for one not in favor of these "unique" futuristic, yet bulky ass weapons, as these remind me doom 3. Needlessly bulky, and too "advanced" looking as we all know, no weapon that fires bullets will never look like these portrayed. It's not even reasonable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think they were going for pulse rifles and guns from Aliens, considering that's one of the biggest inspirations for NS. In that respect, I think it's locked down pretty tight.
<!--quoteo(post=1789861:date=Jul 30 2010, 09:27 PM:name=Killpo1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Killpo1 @ Jul 30 2010, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol after seeing an Onos the first time they were probably like WE NEED BIGGER GUNS NOT SMALLER ONES, hence why the standard gun is a lot larger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is a fair point. 50 caliber guns are large. NS2's assault rifle's bullets are pretty big, but not that big.
Another point is that NS guns have ZERO recoil. The AA12 automatic recoilless shotgun mentioned is rather huge. So I could make an argument that the guns are large because they deal with recoil. Then again, nanites invalidate that argument.
I think the guns' looks are an aesthetic design choice. If every gun was a skinny and short MP5K, marine players wouldn't feel very powerful even if they did the exact same damage with said guns. In fact, aliens would be proxy seem WEAKER because wimpy guns could take them down. So a large gun size makes marines feel powerful and makes aliens seem hard core.
Make it too stylish and the aesthetics feel forced.
So NS2's guns are bulky to look powerful. Their style points come from being collapsible and having moving parts; otherwise they are big square boxes.
<!--quoteo(post=1788462:date=Jul 29 2010, 05:52 AM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Jul 29 2010, 05:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except none of that waffle justifies it. A) What reminder does top loading give that loading anywhere else doesnt? Especially considering the huge ammo counter on the back. B) Thats what the pump action is for. C) Sorry but, lolwut?
Let me make this really simple for you. A pump action shotgun is essentially 2 tubes, one on top of the other. The bottom tube is the magazine, it holds the ammo. The pump action is located here, because thats what feeds the next round into the barrel (before fellow gun geeks jump me for that one, im deliberately over-simplifying). The barrel is the top tube, where the contents of the shells is expelled forwards.
With the NS2 shotgun, we can see that its pump action, and that the pump action is under the gun. That means the lower of the 2 tubs must be the magazine.
We can also see that shells are being loaded into the top, directly into the barrel, one after another. The only thing this would achieve is a queue of shells in the barrel, none of which could be fired.
Invoking nanites here is like saying "it works by magic", except that guns are straightforward. They dont need magic to work, just sensible design.
It's physically impossible for a shotgun to work like this, nanites or no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, so what university did you take your degree in advanced nanite-mechanical engineering from? Wait, what's that, you don't have one? So your opinion means exactly jack-squat? Hm. Fancy that.
I mean, how are you to say that what is happening is that the loading mechanism isn't simply loading raw material. The nanite workings of the gun then take a selection of those raw materials, and craft an appropriate bullet based on constant analysis of bacterium levels and functioning. When fired, nanite projectiles launch, not as a load of shot, but as a group of self-propelled micro missiles. The pump then simply clears out the detritus which was assembled into a blasting cap to protect the more delicate nanite machinery, and signals to the nanites within the shotgun to process another load of raw materials.
I mean, I'm sorry, as the weapon and technologies we're dealing with don't actually exist, you can't tell me different with any more authority than a three-year old stamping their foot and saying "Cause I SAY SO!"
Or in other words.. get a grip. It works because it works. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work or that it's worse than any more "realistic" system. Again, if you want to go realistic, we need to get rid of the whole "shooting aliens" concept in the first place. Unless you're willing to do that, complaining that the gun isn't realistic is amazing hypocrisy.
I just realized something. It would make more sense for the ammo count to be displayed on the marine "visor", instead of the actual weapon... via wireless communication to your suit computer or something. So this means it would be more futuristic to see a on-screen ammo count, then a PHYSICAL digital readout screen on the actual weapon. Seriously look at the movie Aliens and ask your self how often you would bother to check the ammo counter if you could just slap in a fresh 99 round magazine when the previous ran out.
Anyway blame the art director, if their is one, and all of these problems will be fixed with 3rd party models.
<!--quoteo(post=1783299:date=Jul 26 2010, 02:54 AM:name=kira`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kira` @ Jul 26 2010, 02:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1783299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's great how people think it's purely aesthetic when a bulky model is taking up more place in my screen. More place taken up by a needlessly bulky model = less place to see a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny - skulk teeth and being completely blind while biting is part of the game - something you have to deal with when being a skulk.
Complaining that a big gun that blocks a part of your screen where it's EXTREMELY unlikely that you'll have an enemy in the first place is idiotic.
You do realize the only way a skulk could 'hide' behind the model is if you were running around aiming at the ceiling while blindly making right turns, or it was three inches from your right toe, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1790118:date=Jul 31 2010, 08:07 PM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Jul 31 2010, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, so what university did you take your degree in advanced nanite-mechanical engineering from? Wait, what's that, you don't have one? So your opinion means exactly jack-squat? Hm. Fancy that.
I mean, how are you to say that what is happening is that the loading mechanism isn't simply loading raw material. The nanite workings of the gun then take a selection of those raw materials, and craft an appropriate bullet based on constant analysis of bacterium levels and functioning. When fired, nanite projectiles launch, not as a load of shot, but as a group of self-propelled micro missiles. The pump then simply clears out the detritus which was assembled into a blasting cap to protect the more delicate nanite machinery, and signals to the nanites within the shotgun to process another load of raw materials.
I mean, I'm sorry, as the weapon and technologies we're dealing with don't actually exist, you can't tell me different with any more authority than a three-year old stamping their foot and saying "Cause I SAY SO!"
Or in other words.. get a grip. It works because it works. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work or that it's worse than any more "realistic" system. Again, if you want to go realistic, we need to get rid of the whole "shooting aliens" concept in the first place. Unless you're willing to do that, complaining that the gun isn't realistic is amazing hypocrisy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, the drooling excuses of the fan boy retard. Tastes like paprika.
I realises you and your idiot cronies just want to wheel out "IT USES NANITES!!111one" every time someone levels a logical criticism at some design aspects, but honestly it just makes you look stupid.
Lets see. Firstly, the reloading animation for the shotgun appears to show the marine loading shotgun cartridges. Not lumps of random stuff. If it were just random stuff and the nanites formed the bullets themselves (not that shotguns fire bullets, but nevermind) then it still makes no sense to put the stuff directly into the barrel. Youre blocking your own barrel with ammo either way, and this is the crucial point. Just invoking the nanites BS does not get you around the fact that you've just stuffed your barrel full of something, so there's nowhere for the "bullets" to come out.
And if your nanites are so amazing, why would there be a pump action anyway? There shouldnt be any detritus in the barrel, the nanites should remove it, surely? Nor should they have to be told to ready another cartridge, surely they would make a new one as soon as the previous one was fired? Or are you really going to sit there and claim that nanites work like magic except when they dont work at all?
In other words... get a clue. It's called Suspension of Disbelief. Spouting off at other peoples posts without understanding that phrase is amazing hypocrisy.
<!--quoteo(post=1782947:date=Jul 25 2010, 01:23 PM:name=kira`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kira` @ Jul 25 2010, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This problem of bulkiness seems to be a growing trend in all marine technology. It's as if the devs wanted innovation but didn't know how to incorporate it into their already futuristic devices. So after playing Halo they decided to add in ammo counters on EVERY gun and make them bulkier. Because more, is better, right? Not exactly, if you look at most technology(irl) as it is increasing in efficiency it also tends to reduce in size.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not everything gets smaller as it advanced. Netbooks might have smaller keyboards but most people still want a size of keyboard that feels natural. A bulkier gun be easier to handle, aim and push off aliens than a lightweight model. No scope or eyepiece is needed if the advancements allow for a low profile sensor on the weapon and a direct link to the brain for aiming. Why look down a barrel when you have a neural link that lets you know where your arm is pointed in relation to your eyes already?
Alien armor, as noted, is partially for style. Wouldn't a gorge with armor on it's fat ass look pretty silly?
Lol ok weapons nerd coming out, yeah Alphz has a good point those guns don't even fire that large of rounds either. The main thing about them is that they have rangefinders and a computer inside those guns, so yeah. The thing was meant to be able to fire small grenade rounds and detonate mid flight at a certain distance for maximum effect. wiki xm25 its a big fin gun but it has one hell of a payload.
So the guns aren't really to big, yes they are bigger than ns1, however im sure those A grade TSA engineers came up with something to make their guns more effective, but in the process make them bigger. Im sure its still quite light weight thought, being that far in the future they must have some great composites.
Comments
Like most of the onos armor it's defensive, they are supposed to be siege weapons and bullet sponges, I assumed those were there as a sort of rollcage for the mouth when it charges so it doesn't bust its teeth in by doing so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea if you seen the trailer I believe it would completely disprove that those things impede devour. What impedes devour is that it supposedly was sooooo horrible for the player to deal with the consequence of going rambo while a onos is around and end up waiting in the stomach of one, and then the re-spawn because the commander hasn't built more than one IP. That and some... wonderful(?) people just use it as a hit and run. Going off on a slightly related tangent about that respawn... I've had worse waiting times in TF2 because of stupidity and dying. 15 seconds long and sometimes if my team is bad it could be 20ish.
I stand defeated. Yet devour should stay. Was a great way for aliens to make a comeback against a heavy rush. Instead of completely remove it, it should be a 2nd or 3rd hive ability.
Also I don't remember a damn thing about any timeline advancement (or a timeline in the first place), "evolution of technology," or anything else you base the entire OP from.
Also, basing fluff/art decisions primarily off mechanical play in the first game is backwards. It's a nice little nod to the past when it's convenient to do something like that, but not a priority.
In short: NO.
What bothers me the most about Kira is the sense of entitlement he seems to have. Especially when he started talking about how the Devs should in fact give a crap about all these nitpicks he has about their aesthetic choices because after all, HE has supplied them MONEY from HIS OWN POCKET. Great, way to go, so have most of the people here, and some of them have contributed more then you. You bought a product for $40, you are not an investor. It's fine if you want to point out these little details, but demanding to be heard about this, especially when what you want to change would in fact require a major revamp in the modeling, animation, and texturing departments. And in the end, what would it accomplish, besides setting back development time by weeks if not months?
I actually have a valid complaint with the current build, in that it's almost impossible to play because currently it hasn't been optimized at all. But I know the Devs are working on it, that this is in fact THEIR game, and whining about it isn't going to do crap.
In closing, I can't wait to see Kira selectively quotes this so he doesn't have to deal with any kind of broader issue besides "The guns are too bulky!" But you never know, maybe he'll just ignore this entirely.
The Devs should care what the community has to say and apparently do considering this is their ideas and suggestions forum. Funny, I thought forums were a place to discuss things. I posted my opinion here so that people could either support my opinion or post their counter opinions. People like CPCheebs posted their opinions yet you only sought to attack me and point out a rather obvious problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's fine if you want to point out these little details, but demanding to be heard about this, especially when what you want to change would in fact require a major revamp in the modeling, animation, and texturing departments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant remember asking for them to shift everything from making the actual game to aesthetics. Just do something about it when possible. If anything soon maybe do some sketch work.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually have a valid complaint with the current build, in that it's almost impossible to play because currently it hasn't been optimized at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you. I can only play on a server I create(2/3 game crashes before I can play). If I do get to play, it crashes in under two minutes while play time is extremely choppy. Res nodes are blue, I can't see my pistol or axe. The only time I was able to connect to a server the game crashed as soon as I heard people talk on the microphone yet only had a black screen. It then crashed. My specs exceed recommended.
<!--quoteo(post=1788216:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM:name=Kalexon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalexon @ Jul 28 2010, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In closing, I can't wait to see Kira selectively quotes this so he doesn't have to deal with any kind of broader issue besides "The guns are too bulky!" But you never know, maybe he'll just ignore this entirely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
As for the top loading shotgun, I believe I explained that in the general forum with the leaked technical response memo on the Vortex. Top loading is to A) Give the marines another visible reminder to reload, B) make sure there's always a round ready to be fired, C) Provide the needed room for the extra nanite technology mentioned above. With nanite enabled shells, it's not like they need a long barrel to fire from, after all.
As for the Onos tusks, remember that alien evolution is also semi-intelligent design. Onos devour was actually a leading cause of onos death as it slowed the beast down, and even if successful meant the resources that the bacterium and the hive could have used from the corpse have been absorbed into the Onos -- wasted. The tusks are there specifically to prevent devour as you surmised, but because the ability was mkaing them less effective, not more.
Except none of that waffle justifies it. A) What reminder does top loading give that loading anywhere else doesnt? Especially considering the huge ammo counter on the back. B) Thats what the pump action is for. C) Sorry but, lolwut?
Let me make this really simple for you. A pump action shotgun is essentially 2 tubes, one on top of the other. The bottom tube is the magazine, it holds the ammo. The pump action is located here, because thats what feeds the next round into the barrel (before fellow gun geeks jump me for that one, im deliberately over-simplifying). The barrel is the top tube, where the contents of the shells is expelled forwards.
With the NS2 shotgun, we can see that its pump action, and that the pump action is under the gun. That means the lower of the 2 tubs must be the magazine.
We can also see that shells are being loaded into the top, directly into the barrel, one after another. The only thing this would achieve is a queue of shells in the barrel, none of which could be fired.
Invoking nanites here is like saying "it works by magic", except that guns are straightforward. They dont need magic to work, just sensible design.
It's physically impossible for a shotgun to work like this, nanites or no.
now we appear to be at an impasse.
their not going to change their models and designs, they looked at tons of ideas and sketches before they even started the 3d modeling process. And they obviously picked the ones they thought fit the feel they were going for and looked the coolest.
The way your saying it makes it seem like you think its some sort of problem that needs to be fixed. As if they MUST redo/change it because the community [or a small segment of] doesn't like the way it looks or it doesn't make sense to them.
And i know you probably know that their probably not going to change it and your 'just saying' but it seems kind of pointless to still be having this thread at this point
"Attack the Hive"
"Hang on, Im just reloading... 234, 235, 236, 237... only 733 rounds left to go!"
You complained about almost every single visual element of the marine and alien models, and in the OP you state "Point of this? Most of the NS2 stuff makes no sense. Please make it make sense." For them to adhere to your personal tastes, the design team would have to go back to the concept state, remodel, re-animate and totally revamp each element you have complained about. Your entire post is overwhelmingly arrogant. I think you need to take a step back and realise that the developers know ALOT more about game design than you. I would not have minded your complaints had you not sounded so insulting. I apologise if you think I'm being harsh, I understand this wasn't your intention (or at least I hope it wasn't) but you honestly need to divert your energy to providing feedback on things worthwile. The developers are not going to change all these elements to suit your tastes, and I am very glad that is the case.
In regards to your 'argument', you need to seriously realise this is a video game. You are dissecting a work of fiction with scientific analysis, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?
<!--quoteo(post=1788411:date=Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM:name=kira`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kira` @ Jul 29 2010, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Devs should care what the community has to say and apparently do considering this is their ideas and suggestions forum. Funny, I thought forums were a place to discuss things. I posted my opinion here so that people could either support my opinion or post their counter opinions. People like CPCheebs posted their opinions yet you only sought to attack me and point out a rather obvious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, developers should listen to the community, but not as much as you seem to think. If the NS2 team tried to deal with every single individual complaint or suggestion, each one claiming superiority over the next, the end result would be a pile of ######.
So yes, criticise away, but be polite when addressing the developers, especially when your suggestion involves re-working the entire visual scheme of the bloody game.
Not arguing that Person 'A' is an idiot for posting an idea/suggestion and Person'2' is a moron for not liking the idea/suggestion.
Wish a mod would come delete such off topic immature bickering.
Also, <i>nanites</i>.
In regards to your 'argument', you need to seriously realise this is a video game. You are dissecting a work of fiction with scientific analysis, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not too harsh at all.
Yes I realize that this is a fictional game. I read a lot of science fiction and like to watch science fiction. When I read science fiction or watch a movie I like it to make sense and some of them actually really try to, even explaining how their weapons/technology works in logical terms. Also in the game industry today, games are being met with higher standards to seem more realistic to the player. For example the physics in almost every game now, ability to see your legs, destructible buildings(Bad Company 2, yet primitive) and objects. Some games even take it as far as gun+ammo weight, hunger and taking into account multiple injury types. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to stop in NS2 to take a ###### or eat a ration. If the Devs want to make the game as immersible of an experience as the first, they should think about what makes sense. There's nothing harder to immerse yourself in than something you know can't/won't exist. To that last line, all of you saying ITS A FIGHT BETWEEN ALIENS AND SPACE MARINES HOW MUCH DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? Well, imo aliens are out there. Maybe not these ones but there will be aliens and if we fight them, we will have bullets. I call an AK47 or an AA-12.
The shotgun doesn't make sense, the rifle is overly bulky and the weapons look like they could be in Halo 4. Especially with the shotgun, it looks like you're just firing a large box. As for Alien armor, I agree with some of the places it is already present(front of the body, along spine) but believe it could have spread further along the body Also, marines still look like they're preparing for man vs man war. Oh snap aliens, get the (futuristic) flak jackets! The way I understood NS1 was humans being like what the hell aliens in our ship(s)/space stations/planetside outposts and then entering in combat with the weapons they had to fight other men(correct me if I'm wrong). When I read about marine and alien evolution I thought ok, the marines were armed to fight men and now have adapted to fight the aliens. Seemingly not except for the horrible explanations involving nanites.
Use your noggin', that doesn't help because the FOV is independent of screen size and only weakly dependent on aspect ratio.
You may think of a widescreen as a 4:3 screen with extra screen space tacked onto the sides, but it is just as valid to think of it as a 4:3 screen with some screen space lopped off the top and bottom(this is in fact how many of the early widescreen movie theaters worked; some nutter simply masked off the top and bottom of the projected image from standard 35 mm film).
Developers generally choose a compromise; wide screens get wider horizontal field of view, but less vertical field of view; keeping the solid angle subtended by the screen roughly constant.
I think they were going for pulse rifles and guns from Aliens, considering that's one of the biggest inspirations for NS. In that respect, I think it's locked down pretty tight.
I think this is a fair point. 50 caliber guns are large. NS2's assault rifle's bullets are pretty big, but not that big.
Another point is that NS guns have ZERO recoil. The AA12 automatic recoilless shotgun mentioned is rather huge. So I could make an argument that the guns are large because they deal with recoil. Then again, nanites invalidate that argument.
I think the guns' looks are an aesthetic design choice. If every gun was a skinny and short MP5K, marine players wouldn't feel very powerful even if they did the exact same damage with said guns. In fact, aliens would be proxy seem WEAKER because wimpy guns could take them down. So a large gun size makes marines feel powerful and makes aliens seem hard core.
Make it too stylish and the aesthetics feel forced.
So NS2's guns are bulky to look powerful. Their style points come from being collapsible and having moving parts; otherwise they are big square boxes.
Let me make this really simple for you. A pump action shotgun is essentially 2 tubes, one on top of the other. The bottom tube is the magazine, it holds the ammo. The pump action is located here, because thats what feeds the next round into the barrel (before fellow gun geeks jump me for that one, im deliberately over-simplifying). The barrel is the top tube, where the contents of the shells is expelled forwards.
With the NS2 shotgun, we can see that its pump action, and that the pump action is under the gun. That means the lower of the 2 tubs must be the magazine.
We can also see that shells are being loaded into the top, directly into the barrel, one after another. The only thing this would achieve is a queue of shells in the barrel, none of which could be fired.
Invoking nanites here is like saying "it works by magic", except that guns are straightforward. They dont need magic to work, just sensible design.
It's physically impossible for a shotgun to work like this, nanites or no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, so what university did you take your degree in advanced nanite-mechanical engineering from?
Wait, what's that, you don't have one? So your opinion means exactly jack-squat? Hm. Fancy that.
I mean, how are you to say that what is happening is that the loading mechanism isn't simply loading raw material. The nanite workings of the gun then take a selection of those raw materials, and craft an appropriate bullet based on constant analysis of bacterium levels and functioning. When fired, nanite projectiles launch, not as a load of shot, but as a group of self-propelled micro missiles. The pump then simply clears out the detritus which was assembled into a blasting cap to protect the more delicate nanite machinery, and signals to the nanites within the shotgun to process another load of raw materials.
I mean, I'm sorry, as the weapon and technologies we're dealing with don't actually exist, you can't tell me different with any more authority than a three-year old stamping their foot and saying "Cause I SAY SO!"
Or in other words.. get a grip. It works because it works. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work or that it's worse than any more "realistic" system. Again, if you want to go realistic, we need to get rid of the whole "shooting aliens" concept in the first place. Unless you're willing to do that, complaining that the gun isn't realistic is amazing hypocrisy.
Anyway blame the art director, if their is one, and all of these problems will be fixed with 3rd party models.
Funny - skulk teeth and being completely blind while biting is part of the game - something you have to deal with when being a skulk.
Complaining that a big gun that blocks a part of your screen where it's EXTREMELY unlikely that you'll have an enemy in the first place is idiotic.
You do realize the only way a skulk could 'hide' behind the model is if you were running around aiming at the ceiling while blindly making right turns, or it was three inches from your right toe, right?
Deal with it.
Wait, what's that, you don't have one? So your opinion means exactly jack-squat? Hm. Fancy that.
I mean, how are you to say that what is happening is that the loading mechanism isn't simply loading raw material. The nanite workings of the gun then take a selection of those raw materials, and craft an appropriate bullet based on constant analysis of bacterium levels and functioning. When fired, nanite projectiles launch, not as a load of shot, but as a group of self-propelled micro missiles. The pump then simply clears out the detritus which was assembled into a blasting cap to protect the more delicate nanite machinery, and signals to the nanites within the shotgun to process another load of raw materials.
I mean, I'm sorry, as the weapon and technologies we're dealing with don't actually exist, you can't tell me different with any more authority than a three-year old stamping their foot and saying "Cause I SAY SO!"
Or in other words.. get a grip. It works because it works. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work or that it's worse than any more "realistic" system. Again, if you want to go realistic, we need to get rid of the whole "shooting aliens" concept in the first place. Unless you're willing to do that, complaining that the gun isn't realistic is amazing hypocrisy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, the drooling excuses of the fan boy retard. Tastes like paprika.
I realises you and your idiot cronies just want to wheel out "IT USES NANITES!!111one" every time someone levels a logical criticism at some design aspects, but honestly it just makes you look stupid.
Lets see. Firstly, the reloading animation for the shotgun appears to show the marine loading shotgun cartridges. Not lumps of random stuff. If it were just random stuff and the nanites formed the bullets themselves (not that shotguns fire bullets, but nevermind) then it still makes no sense to put the stuff directly into the barrel. Youre blocking your own barrel with ammo either way, and this is the crucial point. Just invoking the nanites BS does not get you around the fact that you've just stuffed your barrel full of something, so there's nowhere for the "bullets" to come out.
And if your nanites are so amazing, why would there be a pump action anyway? There shouldnt be any detritus in the barrel, the nanites should remove it, surely? Nor should they have to be told to ready another cartridge, surely they would make a new one as soon as the previous one was fired? Or are you really going to sit there and claim that nanites work like magic except when they dont work at all?
In other words... get a clue. It's called Suspension of Disbelief. Spouting off at other peoples posts without understanding that phrase is amazing hypocrisy.
Not everything gets smaller as it advanced. Netbooks might have smaller keyboards but most people still want a size of keyboard that feels natural. A bulkier gun be easier to handle, aim and push off aliens than a lightweight model. No scope or eyepiece is needed if the advancements allow for a low profile sensor on the weapon and a direct link to the brain for aiming. Why look down a barrel when you have a neural link that lets you know where your arm is pointed in relation to your eyes already?
Alien armor, as noted, is partially for style. Wouldn't a gorge with armor on it's fat ass look pretty silly?
<a href="http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/AROICW.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/AROICW.jpg</a>
Big guns with associated fancy tech unsurprisingly don't look very sleek.
<a href="http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ARPAPOP.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ARPAPOP.jpg</a>
So the guns aren't really to big, yes they are bigger than ns1, however im sure those A grade TSA engineers came up with something to make their guns more effective, but in the process make them bigger. Im sure its still quite light weight thought, being that far in the future they must have some great composites.