<!--quoteo(post=1791852:date=Aug 5 2010, 12:01 AM:name=ZEROibis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZEROibis @ Aug 5 2010, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bayonet, yes bayonet I mean we have used them in war for a very long time and I always wondered why not have that for when your out of bullets, especially late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.
<!--quoteo(post=1791995:date=Aug 5 2010, 01:31 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 5 2010, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is because of how we've steered away from large unit open field battles... and horses. Actually let's add horses.
<!--quoteo(post=1791995:date=Aug 5 2010, 12:31 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 5 2010, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah when I suggested bayonet I wasn't thinking a knife on the end, I was thinking more like some set of blades or spikes that go on the bottom of the gun to enhance the swing attack.
An actual bayonet would be a bit hard to use on aliens I think, it was originally used against cavalry and you stick the other end of the gun in the ground like a spear and wait for the horse to run into it.
Obviously that would be overpowered if you turned it into basically a shield that kills aliens trying to attack you, so it has to be something you swing at people, and for that I think a blade running along the bottom of the gun or a spike on the stock would be better.
<!--quoteo(post=1791846:date=Aug 5 2010, 02:36 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Aug 5 2010, 02:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also don't like the idea of a silencer. The moment a marine shoots something, aliens are supposed to be instinctively aware of exactly where it happened. Silencing the sound just makes it harder for the alien players to notice combat in their vicinity even though "in character" they should have no trouble detecting the damage to a teammate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you dont notice until you are being shot at you are supposed to die, if you dont notice alien dieing from minimap you deserve to die aswell. We are not playing sims here.
I dunno how this would function work really though.
<!--quoteo(post=1791851:date=Aug 4 2010, 06:59 PM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Aug 4 2010, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine Sniping seems out of place in ns2. A skulk could easily sneak up on you when your scoped in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point, though. It adds another level of gameplay. Anyway, it wouldn't have to be fully scoped like a real sniper rifle - rather it could be like Day of Defeat, you would get slightly decreased rate of fire but more accuracy when looking through the scope / sight.
<!--quoteo(post=1791988:date=Aug 5 2010, 11:28 AM:name=kurupt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kurupt @ Aug 5 2010, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All in one eg.. <a href="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4515442157_cb5ba4eaee_o.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/451544...b5ba4eaee_o.jpg</a> the new Future Soldier weapon by Tom Clancy's<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://whatinthenameof.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/5e-08-zorg-gun.jpg?w=500&h=378" target="_blank">You call that an all in one gun of the future!?</a>
does anyone even know what functions the silencer has yet? maybe it adds more then just a muffled sound effect? maybe it adds a little more accuracy as well?
<!--quoteo(post=1791976:date=Aug 5 2010, 03:49 AM:name=GrapeVine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrapeVine @ Aug 5 2010, 03:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alt fire should be cyanide pill so the marine doesn't have to feel his bodyparts getting ripped apart<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please don't do this.. I would die *so* often, because whenever a skulk surprises me, I end up jumping up and squeaking, inevitably hitting both mouse buttons.
<!--quoteo(post=1792069:date=Aug 5 2010, 05:37 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Aug 5 2010, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->does anyone even know what functions the silencer has yet? maybe it adds more then just a muffled sound effect? maybe it adds a little more accuracy as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More accuracy is a major drawback in NS because most aliens move so fast that inaccuracy actually helps you hit.
Silencers making weapons more accurate is just bull...
They also do not reduce recoil.
Certain muzzle breaks reduce recoil, by distributing the exiting gases in a better way.
However because silencers are often used in conjunction with subsonic ammunition the combinations results in less recoil and hence what everybody seems to call: "more accuracy".
<!--quoteo(post=1792086:date=Aug 5 2010, 02:03 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 5 2010, 02:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More accuracy is a major drawback in NS because most aliens move so fast that inaccuracy actually helps you hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would never call "more accuracy" a drawback.
<!--quoteo(post=1792091:date=Aug 5 2010, 02:20 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Faskalia @ Aug 5 2010, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Silencers making weapons more accurate is just bull...
They also do not reduce recoil.
Certain muzzle breaks reduce recoil, by distributing the exiting gases in a better way.
However because silencers are often used in conjunction with subsonic ammunition the combinations results in less recoil and hence what everybody seems to call: "more accuracy".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was unaware of that, I was just going by what I've seen in other video games.
Oo.. I know.. titanium stock. So that when you use the rifle-butt maneuver it does more damage.
Ammo-Saver, gun calculates aim, and if it sees you're going to shoot a marine, it doesn't fire.
And instead of a silencer, how about a noise-maker -- it generates white noise in such a way that skulks can't make out marine movements or if bites are successful or not via audio cues. (Such a thing would probably need to have a "battery power" type thing to keep it from being overused)
Lighter weaponry is pretty obvious, assuming that you're still having marines be slowed down by the weight of their weapons.
Some sort of remote detonated explosive? Such as, the rifle add on launches a pack of C4 that sticks to surfaces and then the secondary fire detonates the C4. Each rifle would be able to carry one or two packs, but only have one deployed at a time. This would work well with the alt fire interface already in the game, and would enforce the idea of controlling space. I imagine this could be very versatile, but may have overlapping roles with the GL.
Even if we can't say certainties about NS2, I'm pretty sure extra ammo would be too good upgrade. Just think what would happen if in NS you could get 25 more bullets your lmg? The game would be totally unbalanced. A good player could take easily 6 skulks without reloading. Extra ammo would also take away skill from positioning and movement of marine. Good players take distance to aliens when they are reloading by positioning and movement, if there would be 75 bullets you wouldn't have to do that so often.
<!--quoteo(post=1792097:date=Aug 5 2010, 07:27 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Aug 5 2010, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would never call "more accuracy" a drawback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't imagine why, if you ever played NS1 you surely know that the LMG is very hard to hit with because it's perfectly accurate, and half the appeal of the HMG is its wide spread.
1: Parasitic bullets, bullets impregnated with a bio-engineered virus that breaks down the aliens genetic code (causes small damage over time till the alien adapts)
2: Alt fire mode, LMG enters a auto fire mode empting the full clip at a faster ROF the normal (downside is it causes the barrel to overheat requiring longer to reload, and can't be stopped, superceded by GL attachment)
3: GPS attachment, allows the commander to delegate minor command duties to 1 member of a squad, allowing them to give basic move/defend orders to his squad.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1792233:date=Aug 5 2010, 08:22 PM:name=scott.exe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scott.exe @ Aug 5 2010, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I the only one that thinks an extended magazine might cause some overlapping with the role of the heavy machine gun?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heavy machine gun?
As far as I'm aware there is no hmg. Just a minigun for heavy's.
<!--quoteo(post=1792187:date=Aug 5 2010, 06:39 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 5 2010, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't imagine why, if you ever played NS1 you surely know that the LMG is very hard to hit with because it's perfectly accurate, and half the appeal of the HMG is its wide spread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?
I stopped playing ns1 a while ago but from what i remember the lmg was fine against lerks and skulks.
+1 for Extended Clip, you could even have multiple tiers of upgrade this way too.
Could make rifle a viable and very useful late game weapon. Give rifle a role to fill other than "crappy" starting weapon, deals poor damage per bullet, but has really high total damage output.
<!--quoteo(post=1792179:date=Aug 5 2010, 06:14 PM:name=Tane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tane @ Aug 5 2010, 06:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if we can't say certainties about NS2, I'm pretty sure extra ammo would be too good upgrade. Just think what would happen if in NS you could get 25 more bullets your lmg? The game would be totally unbalanced. A good player could take easily 6 skulks without reloading. Extra ammo would also take away skill from positioning and movement of marine. Good players take distance to aliens when they are reloading by positioning and movement, if there would be 75 bullets you wouldn't have to do that so often.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Key words being "a good player". Yes, a good player COULD do that. A good player could also kill 6 skulks with a knife without dying, but that doesn't make the knife overpowered.
Also remember that aliens have upgrades as well. So even if a marine gets 25 extra bullets in his gun, he might be using that extra ammo to fight faster, tougher skulks.
<!--quoteo(post=1792277:date=Aug 6 2010, 05:38 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 6 2010, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you guys played NS1 then you would know that a silencer would be incredibly helpful.
Example:
1. Fades adjust their trajectories in flight based on what they hear. So if you don't shoot, then they can literally blink in the wrong direction.
2. BEING ABLE TO SHOOT while also concealing your position = helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except (NS2) Fade's blink no longer allows them to fly. Also NS1 had both damage indicator feedback and hive mind alerts to every player.
Extended magazines was just an idea, I'm sure it could be balanced better, or substituted for a superior idea. But silencers anywhere near Natural Selection in relation to game play or the universe itself is just silly.
<!--quoteo(post=1791988:date=Aug 5 2010, 06:28 PM:name=kurupt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kurupt @ Aug 5 2010, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All in one eg.. <a href="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4515442157_cb5ba4eaee_o.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/451544...b5ba4eaee_o.jpg</a> the new Future Soldier weapon by Tom Clancy's<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> wtf is the hook for?
<!--quoteo(post=1791995:date=Aug 5 2010, 07:31 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 5 2010, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Make it a bayonet-ax!
<!--quoteo(post=1792097:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:27 AM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Aug 6 2010, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would never call "more accuracy" a drawback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think what he really means, is that less bullet spread is a drawback. And this is true. But then this is not 'more accuracy', this is 'more precision' (common mistake). So you're still right. Having said that though, accuracy doesn't even come into play. Because given that there is no recoil (and no auto-aim) in the game, accuracy is directly as a result of the player's own ability to aim with the mouse. Precision, however, is determined by the bullet spread.
<!--quoteo(post=1792277:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:38 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 6 2010, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you guys played NS1 then you would know that a silencer would be incredibly helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but isn't that what people are having a problem with? "OP" and whatnot.
Has anyone else realised that this thread actually belongs in the I&S forum?
Comments
Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.
This is because of how we've steered away from large unit open field battles... and horses. Actually let's add horses.
Yeah when I suggested bayonet I wasn't thinking a knife on the end, I was thinking more like some set of blades or spikes that go on the bottom of the gun to enhance the swing attack.
An actual bayonet would be a bit hard to use on aliens I think, it was originally used against cavalry and you stick the other end of the gun in the ground like a spear and wait for the horse to run into it.
Obviously that would be overpowered if you turned it into basically a shield that kills aliens trying to attack you, so it has to be something you swing at people, and for that I think a blade running along the bottom of the gun or a spike on the stock would be better.
If you dont notice until you are being shot at you are supposed to die, if you dont notice alien dieing from minimap you deserve to die aswell. We are not playing sims here.
I dunno how this would function work really though.
That's the point, though. It adds another level of gameplay. Anyway, it wouldn't have to be fully scoped like a real sniper rifle - rather it could be like Day of Defeat, you would get slightly decreased rate of fire but more accuracy when looking through the scope / sight.
Cheers,
Cody
+1 extended mag (it just fits the killing aliens, industrial feel of NS... MORE BULLETS!)
<a href="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4515442157_cb5ba4eaee_o.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/451544...b5ba4eaee_o.jpg</a>
the new Future Soldier weapon by Tom Clancy's<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://whatinthenameof.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/5e-08-zorg-gun.jpg?w=500&h=378" target="_blank">You call that an all in one gun of the future!?</a>
Please don't do this.. I would die *so* often, because whenever a skulk surprises me, I end up jumping up and squeaking, inevitably hitting both mouse buttons.
More accuracy is a major drawback in NS because most aliens move so fast that inaccuracy actually helps you hit.
They also do not reduce recoil.
Certain muzzle breaks reduce recoil, by distributing the exiting gases in a better way.
However because silencers are often used in conjunction with subsonic ammunition the combinations results in less recoil and hence what everybody seems to call: "more accuracy".
I would never call "more accuracy" a drawback.
<!--quoteo(post=1792091:date=Aug 5 2010, 02:20 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Faskalia @ Aug 5 2010, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Silencers making weapons more accurate is just bull...
They also do not reduce recoil.
Certain muzzle breaks reduce recoil, by distributing the exiting gases in a better way.
However because silencers are often used in conjunction with subsonic ammunition the combinations results in less recoil and hence what everybody seems to call: "more accuracy".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was unaware of that, I was just going by what I've seen in other video games.
Ammo-Saver, gun calculates aim, and if it sees you're going to shoot a marine, it doesn't fire.
And instead of a silencer, how about a noise-maker -- it generates white noise in such a way that skulks can't make out marine movements or if bites are successful or not via audio cues. (Such a thing would probably need to have a "battery power" type thing to keep it from being overused)
Lighter weaponry is pretty obvious, assuming that you're still having marines be slowed down by the weight of their weapons.
Seriously though the extended mag seems a much better fit than the silencer.
I can't imagine why, if you ever played NS1 you surely know that the LMG is very hard to hit with because it's perfectly accurate, and half the appeal of the HMG is its wide spread.
1: Parasitic bullets, bullets impregnated with a bio-engineered virus that breaks down the aliens genetic code (causes small damage over time till the alien adapts)
2: Alt fire mode, LMG enters a auto fire mode empting the full clip at a faster ROF the normal (downside is it causes the barrel to overheat requiring longer to reload, and can't be stopped, superceded by GL attachment)
3: GPS attachment, allows the commander to delegate minor command duties to 1 member of a squad, allowing them to give basic move/defend orders to his squad.
Can't think of any more at the minute lol.
Heavy machine gun?
As far as I'm aware there is no hmg. Just a minigun for heavy's.
?
I stopped playing ns1 a while ago but from what i remember the lmg was fine against lerks and skulks.
Could make rifle a viable and very useful late game weapon. Give rifle a role to fill other than "crappy" starting weapon, deals poor damage per bullet, but has really high total damage output.
Example:
1. Fades adjust their trajectories in flight based on what they hear. So if you don't shoot, then they can literally blink in the wrong direction.
2. BEING ABLE TO SHOOT while also concealing your position = helpful.
Key words being "a good player". Yes, a good player COULD do that. A good player could also kill 6 skulks with a knife without dying, but that doesn't make the knife overpowered.
Also remember that aliens have upgrades as well. So even if a marine gets 25 extra bullets in his gun, he might be using that extra ammo to fight faster, tougher skulks.
Example:
1. Fades adjust their trajectories in flight based on what they hear. So if you don't shoot, then they can literally blink in the wrong direction.
2. BEING ABLE TO SHOOT while also concealing your position = helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except (NS2) Fade's blink no longer allows them to fly. Also NS1 had both damage indicator feedback and hive mind alerts to every player.
Extended magazines was just an idea, I'm sure it could be balanced better, or substituted for a superior idea. But silencers anywhere near Natural Selection in relation to game play or the universe itself is just silly.
<a href="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4515442157_cb5ba4eaee_o.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/451544...b5ba4eaee_o.jpg</a>
the new Future Soldier weapon by Tom Clancy's<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wtf is the hook for?
<!--quoteo(post=1791995:date=Aug 5 2010, 07:31 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 5 2010, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive worked with 3 different soldiers from 2 different parts of the army. All of them agreed that they were more likely to use the gun like a club than use the bayonet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make it a bayonet-ax!
<!--quoteo(post=1792097:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:27 AM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Aug 6 2010, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would never call "more accuracy" a drawback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think what he really means, is that less bullet spread is a drawback. And this is true. But then this is not 'more accuracy', this is 'more precision' (common mistake). So you're still right.
Having said that though, accuracy doesn't even come into play. Because given that there is no recoil (and no auto-aim) in the game, accuracy is directly as a result of the player's own ability to aim with the mouse. Precision, however, is determined by the bullet spread.
<!--quoteo(post=1792277:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:38 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 6 2010, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you guys played NS1 then you would know that a silencer would be incredibly helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but isn't that what people are having a problem with? "OP" and whatnot.
Has anyone else realised that this thread actually belongs in the I&S forum?