NS2 is DOOMED if there is/is no ..... the whining thread
Sturmwind
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72589Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72589Members
<div class="IPBDescription"><satire> pro-gamer, you played NS since 0.001 then you can contr</div>HI,
There are so many threads popping up nowadays by persons who want to discuss the non existent gameplay mechanics of NS2 in the most fastidious way.Â
I think it is about time to start to collect all the things that would <!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->most certainly ruin NS2<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
The devs will be grateful for at least another eternity to those of you who contribute.
I shamefully have to admit that, as i am only a casual gamer who would be content with the gameplay-mechanics as they were revealed so far by Flayra, lack the judiciousness to be able to contribute here.
But i have seen countless numbers of pro-gamers / competitive gamers / clan-ladder gamers / etc.-gamers who uncannyly spotted the fatal flaws in NS2s game design.
Here are just a few i remeber
<ul><li>bunny hopping, jump-within-a-jump-jumping, wall-floor-ceiling-strafing and a bunch of other HL1-engine bugs not being properly emulated in NS2 game engine</li><li>pressing the all satisfaction giving (E) while staring at something is not properly represented in the current game mechanics .</li></ul>Well, I'm sure you vet-pros can come up with more..... Â bring it on ;-)
Â
edit: spell, typo
There are so many threads popping up nowadays by persons who want to discuss the non existent gameplay mechanics of NS2 in the most fastidious way.Â
I think it is about time to start to collect all the things that would <!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->most certainly ruin NS2<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
The devs will be grateful for at least another eternity to those of you who contribute.
I shamefully have to admit that, as i am only a casual gamer who would be content with the gameplay-mechanics as they were revealed so far by Flayra, lack the judiciousness to be able to contribute here.
But i have seen countless numbers of pro-gamers / competitive gamers / clan-ladder gamers / etc.-gamers who uncannyly spotted the fatal flaws in NS2s game design.
Here are just a few i remeber
<ul><li>bunny hopping, jump-within-a-jump-jumping, wall-floor-ceiling-strafing and a bunch of other HL1-engine bugs not being properly emulated in NS2 game engine</li><li>pressing the all satisfaction giving (E) while staring at something is not properly represented in the current game mechanics .</li></ul>Well, I'm sure you vet-pros can come up with more..... Â bring it on ;-)
Â
edit: spell, typo
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
but from my POV it feels like that some ppl want NS1 with better graphics. in other word they dont like the changes.
From my play time with alpha i cant say anything atm beside the marine building disscussion goin' around.
<!--quoteo(post=1792336:date=Aug 6 2010, 10:51 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Aug 6 2010, 10:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I miss looking at the insides of Onos Belly. I need that in my life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT
Also: Umbra, the ability to glitch build outside of the playable map area on some maps, and giant revolving doors a la Bast.
<!--quoteo(post=1792338:date=Aug 6 2010, 10:54 AM:name=NeXuZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeXuZ @ Aug 6 2010, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well i think its toooooooo early to list all the flaws and con of ns2... now if we where closer to the beta, then we can talk flaws and cons about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think youre taking the thread too seriously.
THE GAME WILL BE RUINED!
That summarizes an ongoing failure to understand or recognize what other people actually find appealing about being able to build.
Seriously, nothing will doom this game. We will adapt to whatever is thrown at us because what the hell else is there that compares?
Seriously, nothing will doom this game. We will adapt to whatever is thrown at us because what the hell else is there that compares?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game cannot be doomed, natural selection will take place and only the best games will survive ;)
You can't really play NS2 right now to actually gauge the gameplay, the current state isn't all that playable. Might be worth slowing it down until you get past the theory and actually get in to a real game come beta onwards.
<!--quoteo(post=1792334:date=Aug 6 2010, 10:48 AM:name=Sturmwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmwind @ Aug 6 2010, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul><li>bunny hopping, jump-within-a-jump-jumping, wall-floor-ceiling-strafing and a bunch of other HL1-engine bugs not being properly emulated in NS2 game engine</li><li>pressing the all satisfaction giving (E) while staring at something is not properly represented in the current game mechanics .</li></ul>Well, I'm sure you vet-pros can come up with more..... Â bring it on ;-)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really shot yourself in the foot with the first one, "a bunch of other hl1-engine <b>bugs</b> not being prop..".
Bunnyhopping is as you have said, a bug. It's an unwanted biproduct of Quake engine movement coding. The development team is introducing it's own movement code in their Spark engine, and knowing their game they are developing new ways of movement for players to take advantage.
To put it nicely, there's been a crap load of whining around bunnyhopping which is a Quake engine related feature. Spark is in no way similar to the Quake engine, it's a different engine with different movement you will have to get used to. You don't go to the Unreal mod or game developers and say "GIVE ME QUAKE STYLE BUNNYHOP!!!!" do you? So this should be no different, again though it's another thing, patience. Until you see and respond to the movement code when it's implemented correctly beta onwards you really can't make a judgement.
As for the second on the list, no FPS player wants to spend their time building stuff by standing still, holding a button waiting to be attacked. Equally no RTS player as a commander wants to build a structure and have it not be built because an FPS player decided not to. The new game dynamic gives FPS players what they want, RTS players what they want. It makes things simpler, easier to understand and the game will flow better. I personally believe the division between the two game styles being clearer now makes the game a lot more appealing, ultimately knowing your role which you did not have before.
EDIT: And yes, I know of people in the community that think those things should still be part of the game.
This reply is not to you alone, but as you came first....
This thread has the word <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><satire><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> prominently displayed in its title. Belive me, it is neither unmanly nor will anyone think less of you, when you look up a word you don't know......
Oh noes!
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't really play NS2 right now to actually gauge the gameplay, the current state isn't all that playable. Might be worth slowing it down until you get past the theory and actually get in to a real game come beta onwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This argument is so tired. While certain things need working gameplay for any sort of analysis, other things don't. If you don't like people discussing things, maybe you shouldn't be on a discussion forum.
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhopping is as you have said, a bug. It's an unwanted biproduct of Quake engine movement coding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm so sick of this. How difficult is it to understand that when something is left intentionally in a game as a feature (bunnyhopping in NS1) it IS NOT UNWANTED NOR IS IT A BUG. If you propaganda mongerers could just stop with the hyperbole and misrepresentation of facts for one god damn second, you'd maybe even manage to find some good arguments against bunnyhopping.
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To put it nicely, there's been a crap load of whining around<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice spin. We've just had one of the most <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=109730" target="_blank">on-topic, serious and intelligent debates ever on this forum</a> which even <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/" target="_blank">spread to another website</a>, and you call it "whining".
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bunnyhopping which is a Quake engine related feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing Quake engine related about it at all, other than the fact that the Quake engine is one of many engines that has air acceleration. That's right, lots of non-Quake engine games have it. Air acceleration is a result of very basic movement code. If you make the movement code more advanced, you can remove it. It takes more effort to make a movement system without air acceleration than it does to make one with it.
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't go to the Unreal mod or game developers and say "GIVE ME QUAKE STYLE BUNNYHOP!!!!" do you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=109730&st=280&p=1777641&#entry1777641" target="_blank">I don't go the the Unreal game developers and tell them I want and RTS/FPS hybrid with melee vs. ranged combat either.</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Until you see and respond to the movement code when it's implemented correctly beta onwards you really can't make a judgement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offence to the UWE team, because I have a lot of respect for their skill at what they do, but to think that a small indie team is going to be able to find a similarly deep movement system, something which has eluded all other game developers for decades, is ridiculous. Sometimes you have to know your limits.
<!--quoteo(post=1792380:date=Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 6 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the second on the list, no FPS player wants to spend their time building stuff by standing still, holding a button waiting to be attacked. Equally no RTS player as a commander wants to build a structure and have it not be built because an FPS player decided not to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad you understand what everyone wants and does not want. Oh hey wait, there are at least two big threads full of people who disagree with you on the front page of the forum right now. I guess you were wrong huh?
I knew this thread would be trouble when I saw 'satire' in the description. Still, it does go to show you that Poe's Law is in effect even when you directly tell people that the content within is not to be taken seriously. I'm sad now.
My contribution:
I want babblers. No babblers? omg this game is ruined forever.
I want to be able to build towers of lame with OCs. What, you can't stack hydras? wth gimme a refund.
I want to build mine ladders so I can jump to impossible places and contribute to my team by not getting in the way. Devs, I demand that you satisfy my trollish urges!
I did my share of proper arguing and bug documenting. BTW, the aim of this threat was not merely to be 'funny', but to serve as an eye-opener to some. Enabling them look at themselves from a different perspective. In this, it is highly constructive.