<!--quoteo(post=1791707:date=Aug 4 2010, 02:25 PM:name=Mr_Charisma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr_Charisma @ Aug 4 2010, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Off the top of my head I would suggest some sort of ammo extension, say 50%. With the 'collapsing' of the HMG and the LMG, giving the rifle 25 more rounds would essentially increase it's late game viability. And personally, it sounds a whole lot better than <u>a silencer, in space</u>, against aliens who can essentially see through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just thinking out loud here but firing a high-power automatic-rifle in close quarters = loud. So from a realism aspect it makes sense for all the weapons to be silenced given the intended battlefield (remember it's the future... the guns should all be silent anyway via integral suppressors or some other means).
The suppressor will also control those rapidly expanding gasses = big reduction in recoil = big improvement in accuracy. This would be very useful for a marine in space, because the weapon would act less like a thruster :P
I stopped playing ns1 a while ago but from what i remember the lmg was fine against lerks and skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes provided you are a very good shot.
It's a very powerful gun, but also very difficult to use, the HMG is somewhat more powerful but much, MUCH easier to use, which is its main strength, you don't have to aim as carefully or be as conservative of your ammo. With the LMG you can theoretically kill multiple skulks per clip, but in practice it usually takes just under a full clip and sometimes over if you miss a lot, simply due to how hard it is to aim directly at something moving as fast and erratically as a good skulk player.
Increased spread = easier to use = less likely to stuff it up and die = functionally better gun.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
extended mag, explosive rounds (extra damage with nice effect), knockback rounds (when a alien is hit, it gets knocked back, depending on size, lerk quite a lot, onos not at all).
<!--quoteo(post=1792431:date=Aug 7 2010, 03:36 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 7 2010, 03:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just thinking out loud here but firing a high-power automatic-rifle in close quarters = loud. So from a realism aspect it makes sense for all the weapons to be silenced given the intended battlefield (remember it's the future... the guns should all be silent anyway via integral suppressors or some other means).
The suppressor will also control those rapidly expanding gasses = big reduction in recoil = big improvement in accuracy. This would be very useful for a marine in space, because the weapon would act less like a thruster :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Detonating high explosives, matting areas with combustible materials, deploying sonic based concussion weapons? I don't see how aiming to make your primary weapon less <i>noisy</i> is something you would invest in. Look, I'm not arguing against the suspension of disbelief. What I am simply saying is the idea of a silencer does not suit the Natural Selection universe, further more I do not see the functionality given the general meta game of NS1 (and by proxy NS2).
<!--quoteo(post=1792377:date=Aug 6 2010, 11:56 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 6 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone else realised that this thread actually belongs in the I&S forum?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Because I would like people to actually read this thread.
What about a holster upgrade that lets you switch weapons faster?
Or an insane idea: Attach your pistol to your rifle and you can can snap it off to allow you to change to the pistol quicker. But re-attaching it to the rifle would take much longer than just switching back and forth.
(Maybe even let me fire the pistol while it's still attached but at a slower rate? :D)
Different types of ammunition would be interesting.
Say you have an ammunition upgrade that does greater damage to one type of alien, but slightly less to another. Or ammunition upgrades that slightly counter different type of chamber upgrades aliens may use. Say if they use a defence-like chamber, commander could counter by upgrading to hollow-point. Or if they go a sensory-like chamber, something that would temporarily aid in tracking an alien when its being shot at for a short period of time? Movement; something that could slow them down?
Obviously there would be a catch, like the commander can only enable one at a time. Changing each type requires upgrading/time.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1792840:date=Aug 7 2010, 10:26 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Aug 7 2010, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 for thermal cam. that stuff looks awesome :3
too bad no one would research it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they are still planning on doing the whole dark ares where there's no power, then that would be extremely powerful for finding hidden/cloaked aliens.
Ugh i can't say cause i haven't played the alpha, but just how gigantic is the rifles muzzle flash?
Well a suppressor could take that down to near 0%, as far as games go (so we are dramatically limiting the aliens ability to SEE and HEAR where the bullets are coming from, while reducing the recoil adding to the accuracy... those are good enough selling points... but we can do better actually).
Ive been reading up on something i remember hearing about suppressors, that some of them can actually make the bullet travel faster. Their are some theories, like the idea that the suppressor acts like a barrel extension, which allows gases a longer time to burn = more power (and the fact that this little additional push on the bullet is occurring while it is technically not experiencing any friction while travelling through the body of the suppressor). Their was also some study this guy did with regards to the temperature of the can... basically the hotter it got, the faster the bullets got (and also a little less accurate)... and this seemed to be caused by the bullets travelling through the less denser hot air in the can + the belief that this hotter air was a better environment for the gasses to burn better (sounds like a catalytic converter).
Downsides of using a suppressor: (if we need to nerf the feature)
1. bigger heavier gun.
2. Suppressor CAN affect the firing rate of the weapon... slow it down. (Think i recall the mp7 had a custom designed suppressor specifically for the purpose of not messing with the firing rate... so proof that this is not ALWAYS a problem).
3. More smokey? so after the guy stops shooting we can see smoke still seeping out the barrel adding to the fps loss? :P
An electrical net gun, sort of like the one the Predator has. I mean come on who doesn't want to net a sliding gorge? Or that annoying lerk flying around.. which would take some impressive accuracy and timing, obviously the spread won't be to big.
Glue gun
flare gun - automatically drops med and ammo packs to your location and not costing any resources, very limited rounds, so in case you NEED them that second and can't wait for the com to drop them.. this would come in handy.
Force field projector - with this you would need to time it just as an alien it about to hit you to deflect the damage and push them back. Has a cool down of 2 or so seconds so it can't be spammed.
Disc injection rounds - fires off a disc like projectile that inserts into the aliens, when you press the alt. fire button again it will explode and dealing AoE damage to any alien around within a short distance.
Air Gun - In case you ever run out of ammo this would have infinite ammo but the payoff is that it's very weak. Think no country for old men.. but stronger naturally to pierce through the aliens.
Silent Alarm (permanent upgrade) With this, when you activate it, it informs your team that you need back up and gives them a WP (with trails if they add it) to exactly where your location is and of course an alarm sound that only humans can hear. This is useful if you need back up and immediately, and with the guidence players won't get lost and will be able to find you asap. Oppose to typing which can easily get you killed, or yelling in the mic and hoping they know who you are on the mini map, and know exactly where to go to get to you.
Taser Cord - tribute to the taser weapon, it fires off a taser cord that hooks into an alien, which renders them immobile, as well as the marine, who can't move or fire his gun. Now obviously solo this weapon would be worthless but with a good team it can be helpful, and it wouldn't work on the onos, also makes you very vulnerable since you can't move as well, or fire. It can easily be altered to, like say you can only hold it for 5 seconds but does 3% damage per second or something. This also would have a cool down and I would imagine hard to connect since skulks and lerks are pretty damn fast..
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1792895:date=Aug 8 2010, 05:23 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 8 2010, 05:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Especially since Kharaa are room-temperature and it would be useless...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i don't know about you, but all the Kharaa <i>I've</i> seen have not been room temperature.
<!--quoteo(post=1792892:date=Aug 8 2010, 06:03 AM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 8 2010, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Air Gun - In case you ever run out of ammo this would have infinite ammo but the payoff is that it's very weak. Think no country for old men.. but stronger naturally to pierce through the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just as an fyi, that's not really unlimited, you have to have a way to <i>compress</i> the air, which is the "ammunition" not to mention you're going to want to have a projectile to kill things, so that has limits too...
<!--quoteo(post=1792959:date=Aug 8 2010, 01:54 PM:name=BAshh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BAshh @ Aug 8 2010, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just as an fyi, that's not really unlimited, you have to have a way to <i>compress</i> the air, which is the "ammunition" not to mention you're going to want to have a projectile to kill things, so that has limits too...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'm sure they can come up with some nanite reason why it would be infinite. I mean your looking at things from our world, and current technology stand point, this games in a alternate universe, the future, and a video game. I am quite sure they can manage some reason to allow it to have infinite ammo.
<!--quoteo(post=1792976:date=Aug 8 2010, 10:45 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 8 2010, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I'm sure they can come up with some nanite reason why it would be infinite. I mean your looking at things from our world, and current technology stand point, this games in a alternate universe, the future, and a video game. I am quite sure they can manage some reason to allow it to have infinite ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going with nano magic there is no reason to have it be an air gun, it can be a nano gun that shoots nano bullets which nano deconstruct the aliens on a nano level and kill them in 1 shot.
Hey that's an idea, nano bullets, they decrease alien armor slightly when you hit with them because of the nanites eating the armor away, and it stacks the more you hit (up to a point, I'd say 1.5 seconds of constant hits would peg the effect at say 25% extra damage taken), so emptying a full clip into something will do a lot of damage. It's also balanced because things like skulks are hard to hit anyway so it won't help much, but things like onoses which can't dodge anything will take a fair bit more damage than they normally would.
It also works well in teams because the armor decrease makes the alien more vulnerable to other guns too.
<!--quoteo(post=1792979:date=Aug 8 2010, 05:18 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 8 2010, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're going with nano magic there is no reason to have it be an air gun, it can be a nano gun that shoots nano bullets which nano deconstruct the aliens on a nano level and kill them in 1 shot.
Hey that's an idea, nano bullets, they decrease alien armor slightly when you hit with them because of the nanites eating the armor away, and it stacks the more you hit (up to a point, I'd say 1.5 seconds of constant hits would peg the effect at say 25% extra damage taken), so emptying a full clip into something will do a lot of damage. It's also balanced because things like skulks are hard to hit anyway so it won't help much, but things like onoses which can't dodge anything will take a fair bit more damage than they normally would.
It also works well in teams because the armor decrease makes the alien more vulnerable to other guns too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what that actually is a good idea, ammo that lowers the aliens armor, these are the kind of upgrades I would be interested in.
It doesn't last, just to be clear, the effect from each bullet only lasts 1.5 seconds, so after 1.5 seconds it will go back down as fast as it goes up, and 1.5 seconds after you stop shooting, the effect wears off. It's just to boost rifles against big targets and give focussed fire a bit of a boost.
Comments
Just thinking out loud here but firing a high-power automatic-rifle in close quarters = loud. So from a realism aspect it makes sense for all the weapons to be silenced given the intended battlefield (remember it's the future... the guns should all be silent anyway via integral suppressors or some other means).
The suppressor will also control those rapidly expanding gasses = big reduction in recoil = big improvement in accuracy. This would be very useful for a marine in space, because the weapon would act less like a thruster :P
I stopped playing ns1 a while ago but from what i remember the lmg was fine against lerks and skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes provided you are a very good shot.
It's a very powerful gun, but also very difficult to use, the HMG is somewhat more powerful but much, MUCH easier to use, which is its main strength, you don't have to aim as carefully or be as conservative of your ammo. With the LMG you can theoretically kill multiple skulks per clip, but in practice it usually takes just under a full clip and sometimes over if you miss a lot, simply due to how hard it is to aim directly at something moving as fast and erratically as a good skulk player.
Increased spread = easier to use = less likely to stuff it up and die = functionally better gun.
The suppressor will also control those rapidly expanding gasses = big reduction in recoil = big improvement in accuracy. This would be very useful for a marine in space, because the weapon would act less like a thruster :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Detonating high explosives, matting areas with combustible materials, deploying sonic based concussion weapons? I don't see how aiming to make your primary weapon less <i>noisy</i> is something you would invest in. Look, I'm not arguing against the suspension of disbelief. What I am simply saying is the idea of a silencer does not suit the Natural Selection universe, further more I do not see the functionality given the general meta game of NS1 (and by proxy NS2).
<!--quoteo(post=1792377:date=Aug 6 2010, 11:56 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 6 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone else realised that this thread actually belongs in the I&S forum?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Because I would like people to actually read this thread.
Or an insane idea:
Attach your pistol to your rifle and you can can snap it off to allow you to change to the pistol quicker. But re-attaching it to the rifle would take much longer than just switching back and forth.
(Maybe even let me fire the pistol while it's still attached but at a slower rate? :D)
Say you have an ammunition upgrade that does greater damage to one type of alien, but slightly less to another. Or ammunition upgrades that slightly counter different type of chamber upgrades aliens may use. Say if they use a defence-like chamber, commander could counter by upgrading to hollow-point. Or if they go a sensory-like chamber, something that would temporarily aid in tracking an alien when its being shot at for a short period of time? Movement; something that could slow them down?
Obviously there would be a catch, like the commander can only enable one at a time. Changing each type requires upgrading/time.
Just a little brainfart I had.
too bad no one would research it.
too bad no one would research it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they are still planning on doing the whole dark ares where there's no power, then that would be extremely powerful for finding hidden/cloaked aliens.
You know you want it, and it could replace the current h4x motion tracking.
Well a suppressor could take that down to near 0%, as far as games go (so we are dramatically limiting the aliens ability to SEE and HEAR where the bullets are coming from, while reducing the recoil adding to the accuracy... those are good enough selling points... but we can do better actually).
Ive been reading up on something i remember hearing about suppressors, that some of them can actually make the bullet travel faster. Their are some theories, like the idea that the suppressor acts like a barrel extension, which allows gases a longer time to burn = more power (and the fact that this little additional push on the bullet is occurring while it is technically not experiencing any friction while travelling through the body of the suppressor). Their was also some study this guy did with regards to the temperature of the can... basically the hotter it got, the faster the bullets got (and also a little less accurate)... and this seemed to be caused by the bullets travelling through the less denser hot air in the can + the belief that this hotter air was a better environment for the gasses to burn better (sounds like a catalytic converter).
Downsides of using a suppressor: (if we need to nerf the feature)
1. bigger heavier gun.
2. Suppressor CAN affect the firing rate of the weapon... slow it down. (Think i recall the mp7 had a custom designed suppressor specifically for the purpose of not messing with the firing rate... so proof that this is not ALWAYS a problem).
3. More smokey? so after the guy stops shooting we can see smoke still seeping out the barrel adding to the fps loss? :P
Well that's all i can think of for now :P
Glue gun
flare gun - automatically drops med and ammo packs to your location and not costing any resources, very limited rounds, so in case you NEED them that second and can't wait for the com to drop them.. this would come in handy.
Force field projector - with this you would need to time it just as an alien it about to hit you to deflect the damage and push them back. Has a cool down of 2 or so seconds so it can't be spammed.
Disc injection rounds - fires off a disc like projectile that inserts into the aliens, when you press the alt. fire button again it will explode and dealing AoE damage to any alien around within a short distance.
Air Gun - In case you ever run out of ammo this would have infinite ammo but the payoff is that it's very weak. Think no country for old men.. but stronger naturally to pierce through the aliens.
Silent Alarm (permanent upgrade) With this, when you activate it, it informs your team that you need back up and gives them a WP (with trails if they add it) to exactly where your location is and of course an alarm sound that only humans can hear. This is useful if you need back up and immediately, and with the guidence players won't get lost and will be able to find you asap. Oppose to typing which can easily get you killed, or yelling in the mic and hoping they know who you are on the mini map, and know exactly where to go to get to you.
Taser Cord - tribute to the taser weapon, it fires off a taser cord that hooks into an alien, which renders them immobile, as well as the marine, who can't move or fire his gun. Now obviously solo this weapon would be worthless but with a good team it can be helpful, and it wouldn't work on the onos, also makes you very vulnerable since you can't move as well, or fire. It can easily be altered to, like say you can only hold it for 5 seconds but does 3% damage per second or something. This also would have a cool down and I would imagine hard to connect since skulks and lerks are pretty damn fast..
too bad no one would research it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Especially since Kharaa are room-temperature and it would be useless...
i don't know about you, but all the Kharaa <i>I've</i> seen have not been room temperature.
Just as an fyi, that's not really unlimited, you have to have a way to <i>compress</i> the air, which is the "ammunition" not to mention you're going to want to have a projectile to kill things, so that has limits too...
Well I'm sure they can come up with some nanite reason why it would be infinite. I mean your looking at things from our world, and current technology stand point, this games in a alternate universe, the future, and a video game. I am quite sure they can manage some reason to allow it to have infinite ammo.
If you're going with nano magic there is no reason to have it be an air gun, it can be a nano gun that shoots nano bullets which nano deconstruct the aliens on a nano level and kill them in 1 shot.
Hey that's an idea, nano bullets, they decrease alien armor slightly when you hit with them because of the nanites eating the armor away, and it stacks the more you hit (up to a point, I'd say 1.5 seconds of constant hits would peg the effect at say 25% extra damage taken), so emptying a full clip into something will do a lot of damage. It's also balanced because things like skulks are hard to hit anyway so it won't help much, but things like onoses which can't dodge anything will take a fair bit more damage than they normally would.
It also works well in teams because the armor decrease makes the alien more vulnerable to other guns too.
Hey that's an idea, nano bullets, they decrease alien armor slightly when you hit with them because of the nanites eating the armor away, and it stacks the more you hit (up to a point, I'd say 1.5 seconds of constant hits would peg the effect at say 25% extra damage taken), so emptying a full clip into something will do a lot of damage. It's also balanced because things like skulks are hard to hit anyway so it won't help much, but things like onoses which can't dodge anything will take a fair bit more damage than they normally would.
It also works well in teams because the armor decrease makes the alien more vulnerable to other guns too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what that actually is a good idea, ammo that lowers the aliens armor, these are the kind of upgrades I would be interested in.