<!--quoteo(post=1794429:date=Aug 15 2010, 04:00 PM:name=SatanLovesYOu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SatanLovesYOu @ Aug 15 2010, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About time marine building was brought back! It didn't feel like NS without it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats such a joke. Its been three weeks since the alpha was released and you want to tell me it was about time ? There was not even time to test the non marine building system. And why was there no time to test it ? Because the alpha is hardly playable.
Whats the next thing you will ahine about ? That commanders do no longer drop weapons ? That there is an alien commander ? That there can be multiple commanders ? About the powergrid ?
If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.
I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.
<!--quoteo(post=1794451:date=Aug 16 2010, 08:52 AM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 16 2010, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1794451:date=Aug 16 2010, 12:52 AM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 16 2010, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats such a joke. Its been three weeks since the alpha was released and you want to tell me it was about time ? [...] If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I fully sympathize with your reaction to such an imbecile posts......
But "rage quitting" and thus handing the fate of NS2s proposed open-development-process over into the hands of the imaginationally challenged faction is not an option. I still have high hopes that Mr. Cleveland -as the lead designer- will exhibit some leadership when it comes to defend his vision for a new and exciting NS2-gameplay. For whatever reasons he has caved in once to vocal pressure to change untested game-play-mechanics so early in the alpha, but i think, he most certainly has read the reactions to this in the forum .......
Well, as a final voice of reason.... Lets all agree to postpone hypothetical game-play-discussions to the beta-testing.
<!--quoteo(post=1794457:date=Aug 15 2010, 07:34 PM:name=quatermass)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (quatermass @ Aug 15 2010, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, I've quit Steam and relaunched it and yet I still don't see any sign of a '151' update.
I click on the option to run the Launchpad and it says it's 136.
So what magic does one have to do to get 151?
Where indeed does it say its 151 in the game?
I can't get into the game with my current version, I get as far as the Option menu.
The option menu has no version number on it, which would be the obvious place to put it.
I go into the Steam Product updates and there is no sign of a NS2 update in there either.
What is up? Why do the developers make is so difficult to find out this basic stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont believe you have the special edition with alpha access so therefore you cannot access the new alpha patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1794451:date=Aug 15 2010, 06:52 PM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 15 2010, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats the next thing you will ahine about ? That commanders do no longer drop weapons ? That there is an alien commander ? That there can be multiple commanders ? About the powergrid ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like all these changes but am glad marine building is back.
<!--quoteo(post=1794495:date=Aug 15 2010, 11:28 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Aug 15 2010, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like all these changes but am glad marine building is back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regardless it would have been nice to test out the MAC only mechanic before changing it.
<!--quoteo(post=1794404:date=Aug 16 2010, 01:51 AM:name=Kurrine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kurrine @ Aug 16 2010, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Harimau Nope, still not seeing anything but bias reading into things, and hehe, still proving my point, negative garbage lacking constructiveness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then clearly it's your own bias causing you to refuse to see the plainly obvious. Or maybe it's your naivete with regards to the motivations of real people? But I'm not naive, so I doubt that. Oh well. There's no help for it, I suppose. Topic closed.
<!--quoteo(post=1794451:date=Aug 15 2010, 05:52 PM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 15 2010, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats such a joke. Its been three weeks since the alpha was released and you want to tell me it was about time ? There was not even time to test the non marine building system. And why was there no time to test it ? Because the alpha is hardly playable.
Whats the next thing you will ahine about ? That commanders do no longer drop weapons ? That there is an alien commander ? That there can be multiple commanders ? About the powergrid ?
If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.
I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure what all the juvenile crying is about, over the fact that MAC's can't build exclusively now. You know.. you can just play the game without building anything ya know and for YOU nothing at all has changed, right? I mean if you dislike building then SIMPLY don't do it. Which would make the game pre 151 for you, for however long you wish.
Ya all do realize the game doesn't change at all for everyone that's against marine building right? So why are you opposed to it. If you hate it so much, don't do it, let the MAC's build, why are you all getting so over dramatic about it, it's an extremely simple concept, don't build.
<!--quoteo(post=1794457:date=Aug 15 2010, 04:34 PM:name=quatermass)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (quatermass @ Aug 15 2010, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, I've quit Steam and relaunched it and yet I still don't see any sign of a '151' update.
I click on the option to run the Launchpad and it says it's 136.
So what magic does one have to do to get 151?
Where indeed does it say its 151 in the game?
I can't get into the game with my current version, I get as far as the Option menu.
The option menu has no version number on it, which would be the obvious place to put it.
I go into the Steam Product updates and there is no sign of a NS2 update in there either.
What is up? Why do the developers make is so difficult to find out this basic stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you see the main menu, press the ~ key to bring up the console. The Build version will be shown. If it is <150, you don't have the alpha access setup right (or didn't buy it).
<!--quoteo(post=1794510:date=Aug 16 2010, 03:09 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 16 2010, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure what all the juvenile crying is about, over the fact that MAC's can't build exclusively now. You know.. you can just play the game without building anything ya know and for YOU nothing at all has changed, right? I mean if you dislike building then SIMPLY don't do it. Which would make the game pre 151 for you, for however long you wish.
Ya all do realize the game doesn't change at all for everyone that's against marine building right? So why are you opposed to it. If you hate it so much, don't do it, let the MAC's build, why are you all getting so over dramatic about it, it's an extremely simple concept, don't build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you ignored the in-depth discussions on the strategical aspects that MAC-only building would have introduced, and that re-implementing marine-building has removed. Now I understand.
By adding in marine building, the entire balance of the game has been fundamentally shifted in regards to playtesting. There was no real decent ability to playtest how the game would have evolved WITHOUT marine building, and now there may never be.
It doesn't matter that "you don't have to do it if you don't want to", is what people are getting at. The fact that it's even available at ALL is a radical shift in gameplay speed, balance, and tactics. It can change the entire way the game is played out.
<!--quoteo(post=1794514:date=Aug 16 2010, 02:46 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 16 2010, 02:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you ignored the in-depth discussions on the strategical aspects that MAC-only building would have introduced, and that re-implementing marine-building has removed. Now I understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ignored what? Hasn't been a single substantial argument or strategical aspect yet, considering ANYTHING and I highly emphasize ANYTHING you CAN do with MAC's only you can STILL do now. This does NOTHING but add MORE dept to the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1794529:date=Aug 16 2010, 04:49 AM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 16 2010, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ignored what? Hasn't been a single substantial argument or strategical aspect yet, considering ANYTHING and I highly emphasize ANYTHING you CAN do with MAC's only you can STILL do now. This does NOTHING but add MORE dept to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im assuming that in this 151 build, it goes back to the NS1 building machanics, as in <b>the more players that are building...the faster the building process </b>(i only tested 151 locally...still unplayable for me online...). If this is not the case..ignore this post...
The simple fact that now marines "can speed up building" by just applying more players to help in the construction of something opens new strategies and tactics.
- the number of marines available in an area will (potentially) affect building speed - the early game will (potentially) favor marines building speed - moving mariens in GROUPS around the map is now more favorable not only because it is more safer for them...but because it provides faster building speed.... - etc... - etc...
Without really testing anything...those are just "off the top of my head" reasons. Atleast we will get to test it out and see if im COMPLETELY wrong about this anyways. But what the others who are against allowing marines to build actually have a point...<b>as we didnt have a chance to test out MAC only building....now we will never know....</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1794540:date=Aug 16 2010, 05:36 AM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Aug 16 2010, 05:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im assuming that in this 151 build, it goes back to the NS1 building machanics, as in <b>the more players that are building...the faster the building process </b>(i only tested 151 locally...still unplayable for me online...). If this is not the case..ignore this post...
The simple fact that now marines "can speed up building" by just applying more players to help in the construction of something opens new strategies and tactics.
- the number of marines available in an area will (potentially) affect building speed - the early game will (potentially) favor marines building speed - moving mariens in GROUPS around the map is now more favorable not only because it is more safer for them...but because it provides faster building speed.... - etc... - etc...
Without really testing anything...those are just "off the top of my head" reasons. Atleast we will get to test it out and see if im COMPLETELY wrong about this anyways. But what the others who are against allowing marines to build actually have a point...<b>as we didnt have a chance to test out MAC only building....now we will never know....</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the way certain people (Sturmwind, Im looking at you) consistently bang on about how our feedback has somehow derailed the Devs "vision of the game". Im not sure if it's being suggested that the Devs are weak minded fools, or we're orators of charismatic godliness.
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.
<!--quoteo(post=1794509:date=Aug 15 2010, 11:03 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 15 2010, 11:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Derp, last word is mine, spouting more negative garbage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope.
anyways, as for mac only building, it is at the moment god awful at building sometimes I'd say, I dont care if it's revoked later, but really I see no harm at this point in it being there right now in such an early stage as this, afterall this is hardly a gameplay testing portion as it is hardware/netcode dev work.
But I'll agree this, we really need to not be adding gameplay changes at this point when the very basics arent even there. (you know.. Servers not choking at +6-7 players)
So yeah.. lets work on all the basics first I'd say.
<!--quoteo(post=1794546:date=Aug 16 2010, 06:59 AM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 16 2010, 06:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the way certain people (Sturmwind, Im looking at you) consistently bang on about how our feedback has somehow derailed the Devs "vision of the game". Im not sure if it's being suggested that the Devs are weak minded fools, or we're orators of charismatic godliness.
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and how convienient is it that flayra admited this <i>personal </i>feeling after reading numerous posts on numours threads....he <i>personally </i>revealed this on a topic tittle "Building Buildings" that consisted mostly of people griping about not being able to hold the E key...
This is not an atack on flayra..its his game, and i still trust that whatever he says will ultimately make NS2 the best game it can be (he gave us NS1 for god sakes...arguably the best game i have ever played...ever). This is just a rebutle to you trying to make it out as if the doom sayers had nothing to do with flayra <i>personally feeling something was missing</i>....
<!--quoteo(post=1794478:date=Aug 16 2010, 01:42 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 16 2010, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not an atack on flayra..its his game, and i still trust that whatever he says will ultimately make NS2 the best game it can be (he gave us NS1 for god sakes...arguably the best game i have ever played...ever). This is just a rebutle to you trying to make it out as if the doom sayers had nothing to do with flayra <i>personally feeling something was missing</i>....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, so you ARE saying that the Devs are weak minded fools. At least we all know where youre coming from now.
No?
Then youre saying the those of us arguing FOR marines being able to build have substantially better arguements and a larger number of people making them.
No?
Then maybe, just maybe, Flayra came up with his own personal opinion all on his very own.
<!--quoteo(post=1794546:date=Aug 16 2010, 01:59 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 16 2010, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the way certain people (Sturmwind, Im looking at you) consistently bang on about how our feedback has somehow derailed the Devs "vision of the game". Im not sure if it's being suggested that the Devs are weak minded fools, or we're orators of charismatic godliness.
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As you are looking in my direction :-)
I by no means want to imply the devs being fools of any sort. On the contrary, i have fate in Uwe and especially Flayra to come up with an original, balanced and fun to play game machanic for NS2. They proved this with NS1 and that was the reason i pre-ordered. Might be i come over as pushy, please credit this to cross cultural differences in discussion style and not having mastered the finer diplomatical shades of English. I'm working on that, though ;-)
My point is, that I think, that when you have announced a sketch for game-mechanics you should stick to it. At least until the Alpha is done.
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Alpha means getting the technical aspects of the game up and running. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Game play issues should be taken on in Beta.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
To cross this line is bound to court for trouble. Thus i think, that the addition of marines building was a strategical error. My "fear" is, that now everyone else will point at his pet-ns2-feature to be implemented and then the Beta-game-play fine tuning will start with an inconsistent garble of game-play elements.
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you? Â
Have to agree with Sturmwind. Their current gamedesign should remain mostly unchanged through this alpha-process where they should just really focus to make the game playable. The ideas they have is not properly presented as it is now and that's why the developers should just note down but not really taking to action on the player feedback at this stage regarding the gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1794551:date=Aug 16 2010, 07:10 AM:name=Sturmwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmwind @ Aug 16 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As you are looking in my direction :-)
I by no means want to imply the devs being fools of any sort. On the contrary, i have fate in Uwe and especially Flayra to come up with an original, balanced and fun to play game machanic for NS2. They proved this with NS1 and that was the reason i pre-ordered. Might be i come over as pushy, please credit this to cross cultural differences in discussion style and not having mastered the finer diplomatical shades of English. I'm working on that, though ;-)
My point is, that I think, that when you have announced a sketch for game-mechanics you should stick to it. At least until the Alpha is done.
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Alpha means getting the technical aspects of the game up and running. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Game play issues should be taken on in Beta.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
To cross this line is bound to court for trouble. Thus i think, that the addition of marines building was a strategical error. My "fear" is, that now everyone else will point at his pet-ns2-feature to be implemented and then the Beta-game-play fine tuning will start with an inconsistent garble of game-play elements.
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont get your line of thinking at all. Do we really need an alpha to know that making the standard marine LESS interactive with the game environment will be LESS fun?
Let me propose this game to you:
You sit in a square room, and you shoot at a wall. You need an alpha of this game to know it's gonna be ######? NS1 works because it differed from just about every other game/mod out at the time. It was way more than just "go here and shoot". And you don't need "engine fixes" or "fine tuning" to know that the marines have digresed into "go here and shoot, while your commander plays with his little robots". Im willing to give the original idea a chance, but I know I want a hell of a lot more out of a game than "go here and shoot"
And these responces ragging NS1? Why did you buy "NS2" if you hated 1 so much.
You people who dont want marines to build, try to argue that the marine game is little more than "go here and shoot". Marines can even buy their own weapons now. And now that the com has robots to build things for him, what's to stop marines from just spawning, buying a weapon and running off. I'll never figure out why the devs want to turn both teams into carbon copies of each other. The fun in NS was the 2 very different playstyles each team had. Now both teams are roughly the same, with marines getting hit the hardest because there's almost no incentive in listening to the com anymore. You almost dont even need to honestly. Just follow the bright yellow box around (or dont, doesnt really matter). And once jetpacks are researched you can almost guarantee that's what itll be reduced to. All marines have to do is just go to a choke point and they have effectively won the game (especially now that maps are going to be reduced). The counter to this wouldve just been to use a lerk but now with the armory changes thats nil because marines now get all the ammo and health they want automatically.
granted I stick to the lets get the basic performance issues cleared first..
it holds some merit.. this does to me now that I consider it, reduce player/com interaction a bit if they arent quite as dependent on each other for things as before, it makes com easier sure.. but at the same time I do see where he's coming from there, it does seem a drop in.. one kind of depth at the very least on the side of interaction.. I dunno just my feelings after reading that bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1794558:date=Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont get your line of thinking at all. Â <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->At least this is something we agree upon...
<!--quoteo(post=1794558:date=Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And these responces ragging NS1? Why did you buy "NS2" if you hated 1 so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know which post you read, read mine again, ponder about it, understand it and only then come back to post an answer.
<!--quoteo(post=1794551:date=Aug 16 2010, 01:10 PM:name=Sturmwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmwind @ Aug 16 2010, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To cross this line is bound to court for trouble. Thus i think, that the addition of marines building was a strategical error. My "fear" is, that now everyone else will point at his pet-ns2-feature to be implemented and then the Beta-game-play fine tuning will start with an inconsistent garble of game-play elements.
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, but just because the game is in Alpha doesnt mean that gameplay changes <b>cannot</b> be made. They're certainly not the priority, but if something feels wrong to so many people <i>including</i> one of the Devs, then there's no harm changing it now. Look at it this way - the earlier we test it, the earlier it gets balanced properly. That said, I would be very happy if the Devs solely concentrated on CPU/RAM optimisation, network utilisation and graphics issues.
<!--quoteo(post=1794568:date=Aug 16 2010, 12:14 PM:name=Harathan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 16 2010, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That said, I would be very happy if the Devs solely concentrated on CPU/RAM optimisation, network utilisation and graphics issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is my only concern right now if all efforts could be focused on getting a patch that fixes the server issues then real actual feedback will be possible.
Either way marine building needed to be put back in and it was quite obvious enough even without a playable version. On the other hand I'd say most all other changes are welcome and feedback regarding them isn't as useful until we can actually play full rounds.
Comments
Thats such a joke. Its been three weeks since the alpha was released and you want to tell me it was about time ? There was not even time to test the non marine building system.
And why was there no time to test it ? Because the alpha is hardly playable.
Whats the next thing you will ahine about ? That commanders do no longer drop weapons ? That there is an alien commander ? That there can be multiple commanders ? About the powergrid ?
If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.
I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.
I LOL'd
I click on the option to run the Launchpad and it says it's 136.
So what magic does one have to do to get 151?
Where indeed does it say its 151 in the game?
I can't get into the game with my current version, I get as far as the Option menu.
The option menu has no version number on it, which would be the obvious place to put it.
I go into the Steam Product updates and there is no sign of a NS2 update in there either.
What is up? Why do the developers make is so difficult to find out this basic stuff?
[...]
If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully sympathize with your reaction to such an imbecile posts......
But "rage quitting" and thus handing the fate of NS2s proposed open-development-process over into the hands of the imaginationally challenged faction is not an option.
I still have high hopes that Mr. Cleveland -as the lead designer- will exhibit some leadership when it comes to defend his vision for a new and exciting NS2-gameplay.
For whatever reasons he has caved in once to vocal pressure to change untested game-play-mechanics so early in the alpha, but i think, he most certainly has read the reactions to this in the forum .......
Well, as a final voice of reason....
Lets all agree to postpone hypothetical game-play-discussions to the beta-testing.
I click on the option to run the Launchpad and it says it's 136.
So what magic does one have to do to get 151?
Where indeed does it say its 151 in the game?
I can't get into the game with my current version, I get as far as the Option menu.
The option menu has no version number on it, which would be the obvious place to put it.
I go into the Steam Product updates and there is no sign of a NS2 update in there either.
What is up? Why do the developers make is so difficult to find out this basic stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont believe you have the special edition with alpha access so therefore you cannot access the new alpha patch.
I like all these changes but am glad marine building is back.
Regardless it would have been nice to test out the MAC only mechanic before changing it.
Nope, still not seeing anything but bias reading into things, and hehe, still proving my point, negative garbage lacking constructiveness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then clearly it's your own bias causing you to refuse to see the plainly obvious.
Or maybe it's your naivete with regards to the motivations of real people? But I'm not naive, so I doubt that.
Oh well. There's no help for it, I suppose. Topic closed.
And why was there no time to test it ? Because the alpha is hardly playable.
Whats the next thing you will ahine about ? That commanders do no longer drop weapons ? That there is an alien commander ? That there can be multiple commanders ? About the powergrid ?
If you want to play NS1 with fancy graphics just wait for the mod. I for one would like to at least test features before they are condemmed.
I am done with this community. Have fun changing NS2 into NS1 with fancy graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure what all the juvenile crying is about, over the fact that MAC's can't build exclusively now. You know.. you can just play the game without building anything ya know and for YOU nothing at all has changed, right? I mean if you dislike building then SIMPLY don't do it. Which would make the game pre 151 for you, for however long you wish.
Ya all do realize the game doesn't change at all for everyone that's against marine building right? So why are you opposed to it. If you hate it so much, don't do it, let the MAC's build, why are you all getting so over dramatic about it, it's an extremely simple concept, don't build.
I click on the option to run the Launchpad and it says it's 136.
So what magic does one have to do to get 151?
Where indeed does it say its 151 in the game?
I can't get into the game with my current version, I get as far as the Option menu.
The option menu has no version number on it, which would be the obvious place to put it.
I go into the Steam Product updates and there is no sign of a NS2 update in there either.
What is up? Why do the developers make is so difficult to find out this basic stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you see the main menu, press the ~ key to bring up the console. The Build version will be shown. If it is <150, you don't have the alpha access setup right (or didn't buy it).
Ya all do realize the game doesn't change at all for everyone that's against marine building right? So why are you opposed to it. If you hate it so much, don't do it, let the MAC's build, why are you all getting so over dramatic about it, it's an extremely simple concept, don't build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you ignored the in-depth discussions on the strategical aspects that MAC-only building would have introduced, and that re-implementing marine-building has removed. Now I understand.
It doesn't matter that "you don't have to do it if you don't want to", is what people are getting at. The fact that it's even available at ALL is a radical shift in gameplay speed, balance, and tactics. It can change the entire way the game is played out.
See what I did there.
Ignored what? Hasn't been a single substantial argument or strategical aspect yet, considering ANYTHING and I highly emphasize ANYTHING you CAN do with MAC's only you can STILL do now. This does NOTHING but add MORE dept to the game.
The simple fact that now marines "can speed up building" by just applying more players to help in the construction of something opens new strategies and tactics.
- the number of marines available in an area will (potentially) affect building speed
- the early game will (potentially) favor marines building speed
- moving mariens in GROUPS around the map is now more favorable not only because it is more safer for them...but because it provides faster building speed....
- etc...
- etc...
Without really testing anything...those are just "off the top of my head" reasons. Atleast we will get to test it out and see if im COMPLETELY wrong about this anyways. But what the others who are against allowing marines to build actually have a point...<b>as we didnt have a chance to test out MAC only building....now we will never know....</b>
The simple fact that now marines "can speed up building" by just applying more players to help in the construction of something opens new strategies and tactics.
- the number of marines available in an area will (potentially) affect building speed
- the early game will (potentially) favor marines building speed
- moving mariens in GROUPS around the map is now more favorable not only because it is more safer for them...but because it provides faster building speed....
- etc...
- etc...
Without really testing anything...those are just "off the top of my head" reasons. Atleast we will get to test it out and see if im COMPLETELY wrong about this anyways. But what the others who are against allowing marines to build actually have a point...<b>as we didnt have a chance to test out MAC only building....now we will never know....</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
posts that make sense? not on my watch
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.
nope.
anyways, as for mac only building, it is at the moment god awful at building sometimes I'd say, I dont care if it's revoked later, but really I see no harm at this point in it being there right now in such an early stage as this, afterall this is hardly a gameplay testing portion as it is hardware/netcode dev work.
But I'll agree this, we really need to not be adding gameplay changes at this point when the very basics arent even there. (you know.. Servers not choking at +6-7 players)
So yeah.. lets work on all the basics first I'd say.
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and how convienient is it that flayra admited this <i>personal </i>feeling after reading numerous posts on numours threads....he <i>personally </i>revealed this on a topic tittle "Building Buildings" that consisted mostly of people griping about not being able to hold the E key...
This is not an atack on flayra..its his game, and i still trust that whatever he says will ultimately make NS2 the best game it can be (he gave us NS1 for god sakes...arguably the best game i have ever played...ever). This is just a rebutle to you trying to make it out as if the doom sayers had nothing to do with flayra <i>personally feeling something was missing</i>....
Ah, so you ARE saying that the Devs are weak minded fools. At least we all know where youre coming from now.
No?
Then youre saying the those of us arguing FOR marines being able to build have substantially better arguements and a larger number of people making them.
No?
Then maybe, just maybe, Flayra came up with his own personal opinion all on his very own.
Either way, Flayra said he <i>personally</i> (ie regardless of our feedback) felt something was missing regarding Marines being able to build - a fact that those same certain people steadfastly refuse to acknowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As you are looking in my direction :-)
I by no means want to imply the devs being fools of any sort. On the contrary, i have fate in Uwe and especially Flayra to come up with an original, balanced and fun to play game machanic for NS2. They proved this with NS1 and that was the reason i pre-ordered. Might be i come over as pushy, please credit this to cross cultural differences in discussion style and not having mastered the finer diplomatical shades of English. I'm working on that, though ;-)
My point is, that I think, that when you have announced a sketch for game-mechanics you should stick to it. At least until the Alpha is done.
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Alpha means getting the technical aspects of the game up and running. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Game play issues should be taken on in Beta.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
To cross this line is bound to court for trouble. Thus i think, that the addition of marines building was a strategical error. My "fear" is, that now everyone else will point at his pet-ns2-feature to be implemented and then the Beta-game-play fine tuning will start with an inconsistent garble of game-play elements.
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you? Â
The ideas they have is not properly presented as it is now and that's why the developers should just note down but not really taking to action on the player feedback at this stage regarding the gameplay.
I by no means want to imply the devs being fools of any sort. On the contrary, i have fate in Uwe and especially Flayra to come up with an original, balanced and fun to play game machanic for NS2. They proved this with NS1 and that was the reason i pre-ordered. Might be i come over as pushy, please credit this to cross cultural differences in discussion style and not having mastered the finer diplomatical shades of English. I'm working on that, though ;-)
My point is, that I think, that when you have announced a sketch for game-mechanics you should stick to it. At least until the Alpha is done.
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Alpha means getting the technical aspects of the game up and running. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Game play issues should be taken on in Beta.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
To cross this line is bound to court for trouble. Thus i think, that the addition of marines building was a strategical error. My "fear" is, that now everyone else will point at his pet-ns2-feature to be implemented and then the Beta-game-play fine tuning will start with an inconsistent garble of game-play elements.
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont get your line of thinking at all. Do we really need an alpha to know that making the standard marine LESS interactive with the game environment will be LESS fun?
Let me propose this game to you:
You sit in a square room, and you shoot at a wall. You need an alpha of this game to know it's gonna be ######? NS1 works because it differed from just about every other game/mod out at the time. It was way more than just "go here and shoot". And you don't need "engine fixes" or "fine tuning" to know that the marines have digresed into "go here and shoot, while your commander plays with his little robots". Im willing to give the original idea a chance, but I know I want a hell of a lot more out of a game than "go here and shoot"
And these responces ragging NS1? Why did you buy "NS2" if you hated 1 so much.
You people who dont want marines to build, try to argue that the marine game is little more than "go here and shoot". Marines can even buy their own weapons now. And now that the com has robots to build things for him, what's to stop marines from just spawning, buying a weapon and running off. I'll never figure out why the devs want to turn both teams into carbon copies of each other. The fun in NS was the 2 very different playstyles each team had. Now both teams are roughly the same, with marines getting hit the hardest because there's almost no incentive in listening to the com anymore. You almost dont even need to honestly. Just follow the bright yellow box around (or dont, doesnt really matter). And once jetpacks are researched you can almost guarantee that's what itll be reduced to. All marines have to do is just go to a choke point and they have effectively won the game (especially now that maps are going to be reduced). The counter to this wouldve just been to use a lerk but now with the armory changes thats nil because marines now get all the ammo and health they want automatically.
New doesnt always = good.
it holds some merit.. this does to me now that I consider it, reduce player/com interaction a bit if they arent quite as dependent on each other for things as before, it makes com easier sure.. but at the same time I do see where he's coming from there, it does seem a drop in.. one kind of depth at the very least on the side of interaction.. I dunno just my feelings after reading that bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1794558:date=Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Aug 16 2010, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And these responces ragging NS1? Why did you buy "NS2" if you hated 1 so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know which post you read, read mine again, ponder about it, understand it and only then come back to post an answer.
edit: typo
Does this  way of putting things sound more reasonable to you?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, but just because the game is in Alpha doesnt mean that gameplay changes <b>cannot</b> be made. They're certainly not the priority, but if something feels wrong to so many people <i>including</i> one of the Devs, then there's no harm changing it now. Look at it this way - the earlier we test it, the earlier it gets balanced properly. That said, I would be very happy if the Devs solely concentrated on CPU/RAM optimisation, network utilisation and graphics issues.
This is my only concern right now if all efforts could be focused on getting a patch that fixes the server issues then real actual feedback will be possible.
Either way marine building needed to be put back in and it was quite obvious enough even without a playable version. On the other hand I'd say most all other changes are welcome and feedback regarding them isn't as useful until we can actually play full rounds.
edit: nvm ...getting this when starting any game.