Upgradable Fast Reloading
xtcmen
Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">Like in Gears of War</div>I think it would be cool to have an upgrade that allows you to reload faster like in Gears of War.
How it works: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vAVI7aBzT8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vAVI7aBzT8</a>
But unlike gears of war, the active reload only increases the speed of the reload, and maybe a 10% damage boost or rate of fire increase. And if you miss the active reload, your gun jams and it takes longer.
What do you guys think?
How it works: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vAVI7aBzT8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vAVI7aBzT8</a>
But unlike gears of war, the active reload only increases the speed of the reload, and maybe a 10% damage boost or rate of fire increase. And if you miss the active reload, your gun jams and it takes longer.
What do you guys think?
Comments
In Alien Swarm I really didn't like it. It just added an extra bit of frustration.
Don't forget that Gears of War is a game where you have a cover system as part of the game's combat mechanism. Hence why fast-reload works in that game, because when you're reloading behind a wall of sandbags or something whilst in the safety of cover, that little pause or breathing space allows you to focus on the fast-reload.
Also, if something like Catalyst will be implemented later on by the developers, it would render fast-reload completely useless.
While I don't give a buggery about the realism, that is actually a good idea. Faster reload if you gun isn't empty.
It'd encourage players to keep their ammo count in mind, which is an important skill in NS, so having a visible benefit for it would help new marine players master the skill.
On the flipside, you could add a really distinctive noise for a clip emptying, so aliens know if you do it and will be able to time their attacks to take advantage of it.
i'd go for realism and say have the 5th last round of each magazine as tracer. a ping to tell you that your magazine is empty is pointless to a marine, whereas a trace round will indicate that he still has a few rounds to go. even though you suggest the sound is for aliens, there would be no reason the weapon would have that feature in the first place
The ping isn't supposed to be helpful for the marine, it's supposed to be helpful for the aliens.
It's not supposed to be an alert, more the mechanics of the gun causing the noise, there are guns in real life that make a distinctive noise when they fire their last shot, and it is generally considered a flaw in the design because it alerts enemies that you're reloading, but as a gameplay feature it would probably be very interesting.
The idea is you give marines a greater benefit for ammo management, and a greater penalty for not doing it, bring the mechanic out a bit more and hopefully teach people to use it faster.
There isn't any reason why marines would be sent in without heavy armor and dual wielding mininguns and flamethrowers, or why the TSA don't just put sentry guns in every spaceship, other than because it's good for gameplay.
There isn't any reason why marines would be sent in without heavy armor and dual wielding mininguns and flamethrowers, or why the TSA don't just put sentry guns in every spaceship, other than because it's good for gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Most likely back-story on that:</b>
<i>
The initial first spawn phase-in, doesn't allow for heavy equipment other then the CC to be transported due to interference from the Khaara bacteria. And the TSA is just an underfunded mercenary strikeforce, it's not likely they are going to leave resources behind on stations they have salvaged. Usually those buildings, ships or stations are not the property of the TSA. They're just there on a mission to exterminate the Khaara. And as soon as that has been done, they will probably recycle their precious buildings.
Maybe that is their payment (resources collected throughout the mission)?</i>
I'm guessing the players here who have anything negative to say about active reloading haven't played Gears of War... you guys say that it sucks in Alien Swarm (not actually played it but now that I know its in there I'll checkt it out). This feature is properly implemented in Gears of War the correct way... perhaps it works best on a control pad like the 360 pad and not so well with the keyboard.
I don't think that the active reload feature in any way adds to frustration, it makes the gameplay much more immersive cause you find yourself concetrating and you feel like you're more into the game as when you screw up you find yourself cursing and getting edgey :D When you perform a great perfect active reload then you love it and feel a great sense of achievement.
Aggh second edit! I actually ALSO like the idea of a silent reload... slow but silent.... brilliant but this should be ON TOP of active reload. It adds much more depth to the gameplay.
I'm guessing the players here who have anything negative to say about active reloading haven't played Gears of War... you guys say that it sucks in Alien Swarm (not actually played it but now that I know its in there I'll checkt it out). This feature is properly implemented in Gears of War the correct way... perhaps it works best on a control pad like the 360 pad and not so well with the keyboard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gears of War, as great a game it is (GOW 2 mainly), has already been mentioned, which you seem to have missed. The point was that GOW is a game with a cover system, hence why active reload works well. The game requires you to constantly use cover behind sandbags, objects, etc, which then allows you to have the time and space needed to be able to focus on the reload mechanism. When you're behind cover and reloading for example, you don't need to strafe all over the place to avoid things. In NS, you don't have that luxury, primarily becuase the gameplay in NS is alot faster than GOW's given how quick the aliens move. Do you really want to be looking at the active reload bar when you have lerks and skulks leaping/flying around or at you, fades teleporting, Onos' charging, etc? It would require you to take your eye off the action for a split second on a regular basis, or even focusing mentally on the timing that you've memorised for the "sweet spot" for each weapon - either way, I don't think NS is a game where you get that luxury of a break to be able to concentrate on reloading.
I mean, GoW is really a bad game to compare to NS, because it's so different. In GOW the enemies tend to hide behind cover themselves, and they're mostly very slow moving. Completely different to NS, where aliens are very fast, can be cloaked/hidden, etc etc. Again, we have a scenario where one game is slow enough for active reloading (because the enemies aren't all over you), but the other isn't. Furthermore, for the majority of enemies/weapons in GOW, it usually takes them a while to kill you, or for an enemy to get you crawling on the ground. In NS, death can be pretty much instant. A fade/Onos can kill you within a few seconds. Again, GOW is a game that is slow enough and gives you enough time to use active reloads effectively (you can take damage whilst reloading and still focus on active reload because it takes them a while usually to kill), whereas NS really isn't.
If you want a direct reason (not from a developer, but it's still a gameplay theory/design reason), it's this. There's no need for it in NS because NS isn't lacking in abilities/perks/changes for it to need active reload. The real reason why active reloading is needed in Gears of War is because your character has no actual abilities in that game. The only thing that you can do to change your character's effectiveness is to change your weapon - you don't have any genuine additional abilities. Hence why active reload was implemented, as it gives you something extra that increases your character's effectiveness briefly and adds a bit of additional thinking to what would otherwise be a more simple shooter. In NS, there are a number of abilities that may be in the game, all of which can change your character's effectiveness, damage output, potency, strength, speed, etc etc. NS is therefore a game that inherently does not need this active-reload feature to add that bit of complexity/thinking that players enjoy. It's already in there. And as stated before, if we see something like Catalyst in NS2, there'll be absolute no need at all for active reloading.
It has nothing to do with control pad vs keyboard/mice either, though I do agree that with default controls, active reloading is easier on the control pad by virtue of the reload being directly above the trigger and therefore only needing a few milimetres of movement by the trigger finger to press it. Though this can be binded to a closer key on the keyboard/mouse if it were necessary (I'd use mouse4 to active reload).
Regarding Alien Swarm, active reload was annoying because again, unlike Gears of War, the game (on higher difficulties) gets very fast and hectic at various points (mainly the "bug horde" areas where loads of them swarm from different areas), so with there being no cover system and too much happening on screen, it's annoying to have reloads where you have a split second to active reload (which is diificult because you're jumping around everywhere avoiding fast bugs). And if you miss the reload, which is easy to do because you're strafing like made and focusing on avoiding the bugs, you then have a longish wait till your gun is ready to fire again. Hence why it's more annoying than useful (plus I don't think active reload in Alien Swarm gives any benefit other than a faster reload, i.e. no damage bonus - though I may be wrong).
Overall, I'm not dead against active reload, but there's a number of reasons why so few FPS games have implemented it.
The same can be implemented in NS. If your against it, then you don't have to use it. It's simple as that and everyone wins.
And I feel like we should at least try it because it really is not a bad idea.
And then you say it's a choice. Come on now. Do you see the problem? People will seek the advantage, and it will become the status quo. Once it becomes the status quo, then it is no longer an advantage, and its lack becomes a disadvantage. The choice becomes, will you be disadvantaged or will you not? Why? What for?
-1 for this idea.
Anyone else notice the last sound in the video, it is the exact same sound as our PhaseGate <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
+1
And then you say it's a choice. Come on now. Do you see the problem? People will seek the advantage, and it will become the status quo. Once it becomes the status quo, then it is no longer an advantage, and its lack becomes a disadvantage. The choice becomes, will you be disadvantaged or will you not? Why? What for?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a disadvantage. If you miss the active reload, then you Jam and it takes longer to reload. It is more of a gamble. You can play it safe and not use it, or go for the payoff.
And if you ever played gears, you miss the active all the time. And many of those times causes you to die because you are mid battle.
<i>
The initial first spawn phase-in, doesn't allow for heavy equipment other then the CC to be transported due to interference from the Khaara bacteria. And the TSA is just an underfunded mercenary strikeforce, it's not likely they are going to leave resources behind on stations they have salvaged. Usually those buildings, ships or stations are not the property of the TSA. They're just there on a mission to exterminate the Khaara. And as soon as that has been done, they will probably recycle their precious buildings.
Maybe that is their payment (resources collected throughout the mission)?</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe that it's cheaper to train and equip new soldiers than it is to buy a set of HA and a pair of flamethrowers and just immediately wipe out the aliens rather than dropping a command chair and chewing through hundreds of resources and marines.
Or that it would be cheaper for whoever owns the ship to keep losing them to alien attacks rather than installing a few autoturrets in big rooms.
It's gameplay first, then the fluff is written to make it sound vaguely plausible.
In Alien Swarm I really didn't like it. It just added an extra bit of frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed, i didnt care much for it in alien swarm either. more so because they put the bar almost out of sight and you would have to take your eyes off your character to find it.
i agree more with the payed upgrade/attachment for faster reloading rather then the minigame.
Or that it would be cheaper for whoever owns the ship to keep losing them to alien attacks rather than installing a few autoturrets in big rooms.
It's gameplay first, then the fluff is written to make it sound vaguely plausible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Khaara would like to have a word with you <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<i>The bacteria growth most likely interferes with the marine systems on initial spawn, making it impossible to go directly to tier3 tech (hence the vanila marine and only a CC on spawn). Once they have established a presence, the nanite grid gets a small powerboost, to be able to build other structures. For some buildings they need to upgrade/reinforce their buildings on the spot by doing research. Otherwise the new buildings and equipment can't be phased in (or in NS's case, buildings phased in by the MACS for them to build)
Maybe the TSA are the only ones who have done significant research on the Khaara to be able to pose a threat to it, and they don't want lose their monopoly on this technology. Compared to private businesses that could put up auto turrets, which probably are quite easily infested and destroyed by the Khaara bacterium growth. A wasted investment...
There is your probable backstory</i>
But that is the boring way of explaining this away <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Besides, they have transporter, nanobot and space travel technology. Their computers are bound to make our all of our tech combined look like toys. Besides, they're not really researching things. They're just upgrading their tech and ability to spawn them in an bacteria infested environment, is all... Something which can't be transported into a bacteria infested base on initial spawn. And once they have a foothold with basic equipment, their nanotech makes it possible to reinforce their main base to upgrade into the harder hitting tech trees to kick some alien a<i>zz</i> <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/sunglasses.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Various marine teams are currently fighting, under the direction of the TSA administration. Teams that are doing well, get access to better technologies and equipment and such, which are granted by the administration. The Kharaa on the other hand, have all of their abilities lie dormant so as not to waste resources, and their structure changes dynamically (with respect to the situation) in order to counter threats to the hive.
Nothing <b>too</b> tacky and sci-fi, all fairly natural.