Onos Momentum and Turning
StarClaws
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 9974Members
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 9974Members
Basically if you have slow turning, marines might be able to run around you without dying... And with momentum you will get carried into a marine ambush too far and might end up unable to retreat. As it is... Marines will now have sprint and be able to chase the onos a lot better.
With how big of a target you are. You really need to have responsive movement as every single marine will be looking to kill you. Maybe if there was charge or sprint again... The momentum of that might be considered. But the onos is going to be slow with marine sprint now.
Even if Onos is going to be a lot more powerful. It will still be the major target and you don't want to just be a suicide creature at the major cost.
If you look at videos of rhinos and elephants. With their 4 legs, they can stop, start, and turn pretty fast for their large size. Of course they cant chase their own tail as fast as a dog can but they are still amazing for their build.
With how big of a target you are. You really need to have responsive movement as every single marine will be looking to kill you. Maybe if there was charge or sprint again... The momentum of that might be considered. But the onos is going to be slow with marine sprint now.
Even if Onos is going to be a lot more powerful. It will still be the major target and you don't want to just be a suicide creature at the major cost.
If you look at videos of rhinos and elephants. With their 4 legs, they can stop, start, and turn pretty fast for their large size. Of course they cant chase their own tail as fast as a dog can but they are still amazing for their build.
Comments
It should just give the Onos player the feeling of being a large creature and give him a small weakness.
If he turns around too fast it would look a bit retarded on such a large model.
A "charge" key (default: mouse2) - based on the +movement concept.
Holding W will make you move as normal, at a normal move speed, with all the regular movement ability.
But to increase speed beyond normal, you have to use "charge".
This use of course comes with advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages:
. Much faster movement speed
. Greater speed and movement control - either tap for short speed bursts, or hold down for a headlong charge : similar in implementation to firing a weapon in an FPS: short controlled bursts, or fully automatic.
. Momentum (destroy doors, push things out of the way, hurt marines, etc.)
Disadvantages:
. Uses adrenaline (of course, tapping would be a controlled use, whereas holding it down would consume a lot of adrenaline, relatively)
. Capped turnspeed (inversely proportional to movespeed) - perhaps have it "lagging" behind the mouse "crosshair" a la the Warthog in Halo - so that it doesn't wreak havoc with people having to move their mouse excessively to turn and they can still look where they're turning.
. No strafe
Bacillus' idea also had curving, but I'm not too sure what that's about, perhaps he could chime in for that one.
Yeah, probably better move it over here. Quoting from twitter thread:
<!--quoteo(post=1798553:date=Sep 14 2010, 10:10 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 14 2010, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798553"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The swerving movement is meant to give onos a heavier feel, create rhytm in play and also to reward seeing ahead in situations. It's not meant to be a twitchy move. So, for example if you want to turn left, you're not just going to do it instantly at max capasity. Rather than that you either do it while the swerving left or sacrifice the swerving advantage and do it without. Once again, since onos isn't based around lightning decisions or actual twitch skill, I want it to reward planning a few seconds ahead instead of just running mindlessly from target to target like it does now in combat games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, basically a little similar left-right movement as a lot of people use in bhop right now. Just _a lot_ slower and calmer motion, which anyone can execute relatively easily. I emphasize that it's not meant to be any kind of ride a bicycle trick to separate newbies from the veterans. It's meant to reward planning a slight bit further ahead than the rest of the lifeforms do. Then again a skilled marine could maybe abuse the onos' swerve and dodge opposite to the onos' turn, creating a bit of bullfight like situation.
I think the rhytm gave NS lifeform's a pretty pleasant distinct feel. It felt like every lifeform had a distinct personality despite they all relied on relatively similar physics and methods. Onos on the other hand had nothing in NS1 apart from some cutey wigglewalk twitching that really didn't suit in its character one bit.
I'm not sure whether all that can be done in any manageable way, but I really think onos needs something a bit off the wall to be considered as a respected and viable lifeform as the rest are. Unless onos somehow turns into movement and twitch oriented lifeform, it needs to make up on some other area. I think rewarding ability to see a few seconds or moments ahead is one of things onos could possibly excell at.
It just needs a turn speed cap or something so that you can't have that "sensitivity 10000" ... onos-in-a-spin-cycle look. But nothing that can hinder him too much. Don't make us lift our mouse 100 times just to rotate it once. And don't allow marines to out-sprint the turning ability of the onos.
You wouldnt need to move your mouse much as a slight adjustment would begin to turn the Onos and 45 degrees would give enough turn to say turn through a 90 degree door at full speed (if you planned the turn correctly). This 45 degree angle would produce the maximum turn speed while in charge (while not in charge, the onos would ideally have a much faster turn speed, and not be hindered by a "lagging" crosshair).
This would make the charge fluid, and the head turn would make it feel like you're in a bull - it'd be very immersive.
i absolutely agree that the onos needs to be able to get away. marine sprint is going to waste a slow turning onos.
so if you're gonna make the onos turn like a chevy big block, then it has to accelerate like one too. the onos needs to be faaaaaast off the line.
maybe that's where the sprint would come in: use up your energy to sprint through the slow momentum build to get to full speed like a first into third. that way the onos always has to choose between traveling and killing and has to choose where to throw down more carefully.
Making outflanking an Onos still a quite dangerous maneuver when in tight areas. If Rhino's and Elephants and other big guys can do this to the zoo-keepers, I want Onos to be able to do this as well to their zoo-keepers (TSA)
And it will also make the turning speed less of an issue, but now you have to rely on tight areas and audio reference to smash marines on your flanks much more
Your reticle is free moving, but your turret doesn't perfectly track due to the limit on the rotation speeds. So, your cursor also tells you how aligned your turret is with the reticle as the turret tries to catch up.
That way, you can turn your aim as an Onos in a direction and turn at the maximum (i.e. reduced) turnspeed until you're lined up with the reticle. This would of course case you to take wider turns the faster you are going.
I'm thinking to make this work, we would have to use a 3rd person camera while charging.
The other option is to use the strafe keys instead to swerve while charging, since we would have no normal strafe anyways.
From a balancing perspective, remember the onos is not armored on the sides or rear, therefore he is vulnerable in those regions, and by preventing the onos from "smartly" and ridiculously rotating in any direction that the bullets are coming from, on a moments notice, because he decided to stupidly stampede into marine start, makes total sense.
It makes the onos vulnerable to marine teamwork, and eliminates the ns1 occurrence of multiple onoses stampeding around tight corners to hit the marines and run back around the corner to 4 gorges doing heal spray.
From a balancing perspective, remember the onos is not armored on the sides or rear, therefore he is vulnerable in those regions, and by preventing the onos from "smartly" and ridiculously rotating in any direction that the bullets are coming from, on a moments notice, because he decided to stupidly stampede into marine start, makes total sense.
It makes the onos vulnerable to marine teamwork, and eliminates the ns1 occurrence of multiple onoses stampeding around tight corners to hit the marines and run back around the corner to 4 gorges doing heal spray.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha does WindowShades help you see better in games?
In NS1 I always felt the Onos should have been a bit tougher. Even then he had an ability to stun marines and could turn fast.
The method the program uses would not permit it to work on full-screen games. BUT if you play in windowed mode, then yes the program would work. No i don't use it to see better in games. I use it when i need to use a computer to do actual work.
(Sourceforge analytics tells me 1508 downloads since last month (when i first released it). Also beyond that, their's a couple freeware websites that posted the program on their sites, so i can't really say for sure how many times my program has been downloaded)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would it work similar to the night vision/flashlight mod in ns1?
As for the turning speed limit I say keep it relatively high. Not so high so that you can make ten 360s in a second a la mouse sensitivity at maximum. But seeing as the Onos is built like a really beefy gorilla eg huge arms and smaller hindlegs, Turning should be pretty danged fast.
In the end it all comes down to having believable turning animations and not just the static model sliding round a pivot point on the floor. UWE should and I think they allready have to a large degree draw influence from gorilla documentaries when animating the Onos. Here are some vids of Gorillas sprinting, turning etc.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDxA8-01cp4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDxA8-01cp4</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQN3u3Wqe18" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQN3u3Wqe18</a>
This Silverback Gorilla sure can turn on a penny :D
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ux8SGKrC1SA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ux8SGKrC1SA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
I have always hated the block ability of a factory and other Objects.
The program in it's current form works by blocking annoying colors, so it may help gameplay as much as shooting glasses help people IRL. But as night vision goggles i doubt this program would be helpful because it doesn't amplify light like nvgs would.
But in my research i did come across an API called SetDeviceGammaRamp, and from what i've seen it works in any game, but i never added it to WindowShades because i found that some people had problems with it due to poor video card support. Also that function is incredibly powerful and poorly documented. I could never find any information to explain how this sample code: <a href="http://www.dotnetspider.com/resources/27479-Changing-contrast-your-screen.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.dotnetspider.com/resources/2747...our-screen.aspx</a> works for the purpose of setting gamma, brightness, and contrast.
- Give onos momentum while running, so he starts slow but gains speed
- more momentum = harder to turn arround corners.
- Camera will shake hard when onos has a lot of momentum and shake minimal when just walking.
- Onos can crough and walk to negate shaking camera
- Gore does damage based upon the onos' momentum
This way the onos can have a weak sneak attack yet a powerfull attack when he has lots of momentum,
both are usefull, both have pro's an cons.
Full speed gores will be hard to hit as the onos' presence is alerted by the shaking camera and avoiding will leave the onos' back open.
Sneak attacks will be easier to hit but will be less devestating.
Perhaps as a gimmick let maries take a flight if onos hits them at full speed. (maybe only when they die)
- Give onos momentum while running, so he starts slow but gains speed
- more momentum = harder to turn arround corners.
- Camera will shake hard when onos has a lot of momentum and shake minimal when just walking.
- Onos can crough and walk to negate shaking camera
- Gore does damage based upon the onos' momentum
This way the onos can have a weak sneak attack yet a powerfull attack when he has lots of momentum,
both are usefull, both have pro's an cons.
Full speed gores will be hard to hit as the onos' presence is alerted by the shaking camera and avoiding will leave the onos' back open.
Sneak attacks will be easier to hit but will be less devestating.
Perhaps as a gimmick let maries take a flight if onos hits them at full speed. (maybe only when they die)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ i liked that
me too
and yea, it cant still be outflanked. this isnt supposed to be an invincible class. how do u think things in the wild attack much larger beasts? they circle, keep a distance, and flank when they get the right opporunity. comparing a gorilla to an onos is like... a housecat to a lion. the onos is more rhino/elephant in size and movement. rhino's nor elephants can't turn on a dime. but in close quarters they still have some advantages (as mentioned before about zoo keepers... a lof of zoo keepers get ###### up by elephants in close quarters).
Most are also hoping that the "shaking" won't be much more than aesthetic to portray the massive power of the Onos in the area, and not make it so they can't fire nor see well.
Similarly, I don't think making vision difficult for the Onos as they gain speed is a good idea. Some more minor things, like streaking/fuzzy on the outside of the screen, is OK as long as they can still see in front of them (perhaps even with minor shaking). But if you shake the camera up to the point they can't see where they're going properly it can be frustrating. Really harder to turn as you get faster is enough of a handicap already.
edit: are you talking about the person playing the onos would have a blur affect from gaining momentum? if so, I also agree with you. this thing isnt a damn bullet train
but if an onos is speeding around a marine, that marine should wobble like he's in a milk shaker.
maybe the maps could have junk on an onos' shoulder height that comes loose when it scrapes along to underline its power, then it would be fun to crash into walls because youre to fast to take a corner, too.
Similarly, I don't think making vision difficult for the Onos as they gain speed is a good idea. Some more minor things, like streaking/fuzzy on the outside of the screen, is OK as long as they can still see in front of them (perhaps even with minor shaking). But if you shake the camera up to the point they can't see where they're going properly it can be frustrating. Really harder to turn as you get faster is enough of a handicap already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the onos had a smokescreen countermeasure ability like a real tank xD
Maybe like this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEkT0f5BLg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEkT0f5BLg</a>
Or like the Abrams: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4PbbMJnpE&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4PbbMJnpE...feature=related</a>
As for turing, I can only see "rewarding forseeing the future" as not running into a marine ambush. If your planning to attack a marine, turning and attacking/eating at the same time seems unlikly.
I am in favor for it though, if just to make the onos not capable of attacking every marine in a short span, and not able to turn and block every bullet.
I don't think he was serious about the smokescreen. But I could be wrong.
xD
EDIT: Wow twitter update: "Trying to come up with some cool Onos "disruption" type abilities. Anyone have any ideas?"
Maybe like this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEkT0f5BLg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEkT0f5BLg</a>
Or like the Abrams: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4PbbMJnpE&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4PbbMJnpE...feature=related</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, you want the Onos to fart people away? :(