Could the hive attack marines that get too close? I'd love to see a marine walk up to a hive, get swatted by a tentacle, and be thrown back against a far wall, causing damage.
i liked the idea, hive defense would be cool to "counter-part" with the resgun idea. they would be 2 more defense systems, balancing the game, adding more gameplay and differences between marines and aliens.
Since Marines only use ranged weapons, I don't see a problem. Yes, they have a switch-axe. But we only use those on the hive when the game is already over so for the purposes of this discussion, they don't exist.
Rendering the attack animation could be expensive, however. This suggestion could be a nice polish for the game once its released as cute cosmetic change in a patch, but I don't see its effect on balance being large or memorable as the core mapwide general strength of alien lifeforms and non-hive structures. By nature, anything limited to immediate hives' surroundings will have limited scope if it requires marine presence because marines don't normally exist in close proximity to hives.
Now, if every kharaa building could be upgraded to smack things too close, that would be a visible change. Makes switch-axes obsolete, maybe even flamethrowers. If the range on attack was super long, sprinting stealthily through normally passive structure groups would be difficult.
Well, I guess a defensive mechanism on the hive would work, albeit with a longer cooldown than the Whip. Though, we could very well see hive rooms covered with Hydras anyway.
An easy animation would be the hive shivering like it does already and then releasing spore clouds. Those tentacles only reach one side, after all. Omnidirectional defense is where evolution is at.
add swarmlings or insects to attack the marines that are too close.
it would be awsome to have the hive area be line a real slimy nest with bunch of sticky-icky stuff. they are aliens afterall.
or spikes from the ground, wouldn't affect on jetpack-marines tho.
insects/spikes aren't that hard to model as you don't need to change the hive's animation. just add little extra. a swarm of insects that flies around the hive -my choise.
Actually, i find this to be a relatively bad idea. Or, it depends on the range of the damage/and if its an AoE-effect or a directional hit.
Because as a flat AoE-dmg it will just penalize marines who are out of ammo and are left with no other option than to axe it down. Marines standing with rifles (possible exception being the shotgun) will be at a range, staying outside the damage-range..
I suppose it could work if the Hive sent out Babblers (or similar entities) to attack players randomly, but spore gas seems like a bad idea. The problem is that either the attack gets too effective and just hits _everyone_ in the room, or it just hits a select few (like people using melee/short range weapons) while the rest are safe and sound.
But at the end of the day, i think the most logical version of this (considering gameplay) would just be using the tentacles as whips. Perhaps not as an evolved weapon, but more like a panic-use of whatever its got. This way, axing people could simply stand at the tentacle-free area to not get hit, and people would only get hurt if they go near the tentacles by mistake (like because they're dodging a Skulk or whatnot).
I simply don't find it strictly necessary, considering the many defensive structures available. So if anything, it's a luxury. But then when you consider the difficulties with balancing or finding a good implementation for a hive attack, it's just better to leave it as it is.
Maybe you could build defensive structures on the hive though..... Hmmm...
it could be an hive upgrade (sort like electric defense on turrets factory on ns1) so while it hasnt been upgraded (sry bout my bad english xD) marines could still use switchax on it. Now this defense's purpose is not to attack 'rifling' marines, but nearby marines. would be tricky since one wouldnt be able to see if an hive was already upgraded or not, when thinking going near it.
<!--quoteo(post=1800930:date=Oct 6 2010, 08:47 PM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Oct 6 2010, 08:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it could be an hive upgrade (sort like electric defense on turrets factory on ns1) so while it hasnt been upgraded (sry bout my bad english xD) marines could still use switchax on it. Now this defense's purpose is not to attack 'rifling' marines, but nearby marines. would be tricky since one wouldnt be able to see if an hive was already upgraded or not, when thinking going near it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...But then everybody would just keep a distance, just to be sure - rendering the upgrade completely useless.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Maybe the hive could grow a couple more special tentacles so it's possible to see if it's upgraded or not? Dunno how much work this would be, but I guess it could be modeled/animated as a feature model for the hive, and that model always grows from the same point/s. The damage this does should be very low though, or it could even not do any damage but stun marines for a second or two?
<!--quoteo(post=1801000:date=Oct 7 2010, 03:12 PM:name=Kabelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kabelen @ Oct 7 2010, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe the hive could grow a couple more special tentacles so it's possible to see if it's upgraded or not? Dunno how much work this would be, but I guess it could be modeled/animated as a feature model for the hive, and that model always grows from the same point/s. The damage this does should be very low though, or it could even not do any damage but stun marines for a second or two?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
cuz aliens, hydras, whips and crags aren't enough hive defense? hive does not need to attack anything. how about the skulk that's inside the hive commanding? he can't hop out and kill something? enough with this already.
If a hive has enough "muscle" to writhe and shriek in pain from a flame thrower, then they should have the ability to defend themselves -- if only from marines that wander too close.
<!--quoteo(post=1800993:date=Oct 7 2010, 06:56 PM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Oct 7 2010, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...But then everybody would just keep a distance, just to be sure - rendering the upgrade completely useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really cuz ppl love to scratch the hive when no aliens are by, to save ammo.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1801003:date=Oct 7 2010, 09:33 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Oct 7 2010, 09:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->cuz aliens, hydras, whips and crags aren't enough hive defense? hive does not need to attack anything. how about the skulk that's inside the hive commanding? he can't hop out and kill something? enough with this already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that you don't like the idea about a hive attack. I don't really either but I'm throwing out ideas. It'll most likely not be implemented seeing as all other structures including commander and players should be enough hive defense yes. Having this idea in mind for later if it seems necessary isn't bad, and having a few different points of view on it already certainly helps too.
<!--quoteo(post=1801253:date=Oct 11 2010, 10:53 AM:name=Kabelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kabelen @ Oct 11 2010, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like that you don't like the idea about a hive attack. I don't really either but I'm throwing out ideas. It'll most likely not be implemented seeing as all other structures including commander and players should be enough hive defense yes. Having this idea in mind for later if it seems necessary isn't bad, and having a few different points of view on it already certainly helps too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i had just gotten my wisdom teeth extracted. i'm grumpy. i stand by my point, however, we can give the hive something besides a physical attack. how about that hive scream gives a little screen blur to marines in range?
Be a bit unfair to have the alien hive attack marines that venture too close, if theres that then why not have the marine command chair periodically electrocute aliens that are attacking it in melee range.
The alien players should be more than enough defense against a marine push into the hive, besides it's bad enough worrying about skulks munching on your rear without having to be constantly vigilant about wandering in too close to the hive. Even having a area of effect disable like the screen blurring when too close would cause issues, mappers would have to design hive rooms based around the range of this scream as to give the marines an area where they wouldn't be affected by it. Wouldn't say it's a massive limit on what they could design but it would always be something in mind when designing the hiveroom.
<!--quoteo(post=1801281:date=Oct 11 2010, 08:06 PM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Oct 11 2010, 08:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Be a bit unfair to have the alien hive attack marines that venture too close, if theres that then why not have the marine command chair periodically electrocute aliens that are attacking it in melee range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Resgun would be enough.
i know these extra defences could add mess and too much power to the game, but maybe it could be disabled/enabled from server setup.
Comments
Rendering the attack animation could be expensive, however. This suggestion could be a nice polish for the game once its released as cute cosmetic change in a patch, but I don't see its effect on balance being large or memorable as the core mapwide general strength of alien lifeforms and non-hive structures. By nature, anything limited to immediate hives' surroundings will have limited scope if it requires marine presence because marines don't normally exist in close proximity to hives.
Now, if every kharaa building could be upgraded to smack things too close, that would be a visible change. Makes switch-axes obsolete, maybe even flamethrowers. If the range on attack was super long, sprinting stealthily through normally passive structure groups would be difficult.
it would be awsome to have the hive area be line a real slimy nest with bunch of sticky-icky stuff. they are aliens afterall.
or spikes from the ground, wouldn't affect on jetpack-marines tho.
insects/spikes aren't that hard to model as you don't need to change the hive's animation. just add little extra.
a swarm of insects that flies around the hive -my choise.
Or, it depends on the range of the damage/and if its an AoE-effect or a directional hit.
Because as a flat AoE-dmg it will just penalize marines who are out of ammo and are left with no other option than to axe it down.
Marines standing with rifles (possible exception being the shotgun) will be at a range, staying outside the damage-range..
I suppose it could work if the Hive sent out Babblers (or similar entities) to attack players randomly, but spore gas seems like a bad idea.
The problem is that either the attack gets too effective and just hits _everyone_ in the room, or it just hits a select few (like people using melee/short range weapons) while the rest are safe and sound.
But at the end of the day, i think the most logical version of this (considering gameplay) would just be using the tentacles as whips.
Perhaps not as an evolved weapon, but more like a panic-use of whatever its got.
This way, axing people could simply stand at the tentacle-free area to not get hit, and people would only get hurt if they go near the tentacles by mistake (like because they're dodging a Skulk or whatnot).
Maybe you could build defensive structures on the hive though..... Hmmm...
...But then everybody would just keep a distance, just to be sure - rendering the upgrade completely useless.
The damage this does should be very low though, or it could even not do any damage but stun marines for a second or two?
The damage this does should be very low though, or it could even not do any damage but stun marines for a second or two?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
cuz aliens, hydras, whips and crags aren't enough hive defense? hive does not need to attack anything. how about the skulk that's inside the hive commanding? he can't hop out and kill something? enough with this already.
Not really cuz ppl love to scratch the hive when no aliens are by, to save ammo.
I like that you don't like the idea about a hive attack. I don't really either but I'm throwing out ideas. It'll most likely not be implemented seeing as all other structures including commander and players should be enough hive defense yes. Having this idea in mind for later if it seems necessary isn't bad, and having a few different points of view on it already certainly helps too.
i had just gotten my wisdom teeth extracted. i'm grumpy. i stand by my point, however, we can give the hive something besides a physical attack. how about that hive scream gives a little screen blur to marines in range?
The alien players should be more than enough defense against a marine push into the hive, besides it's bad enough worrying about skulks munching on your rear without having to be constantly vigilant about wandering in too close to the hive.
Even having a area of effect disable like the screen blurring when too close would cause issues, mappers would have to design hive rooms based around the range of this scream as to give the marines an area where they wouldn't be affected by it. Wouldn't say it's a massive limit on what they could design but it would always be something in mind when designing the hiveroom.
Resgun would be enough.
i know these extra defences could add mess and too much power to the game, but maybe it could be disabled/enabled from server setup.