Random Rts!
GreyPaws
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Members
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Always overlooked</div> I've been COMMing for a while now (when the game first came out I was an alienhollic) and have discovered some VERY interesting things that alot of COMMs overlook.
An RT costs 22 to build, if its up for something like 45 seconds it makes back its cost and earns RES. In the rare case that Im actually on the ground (some a-hole hardasss hops in the chair with half the team screaming "No foll let GreyPaws do it") I find that the COMMs controlling me are never willing to take their mind off the front line to drop me a random RT (like at satation access alpha, or Triad, or anywhere thats uncapped) I find myself standing there for 3 min asking "RT at Alpha plz" (sending the I need Orders ping) If im not completeley ignored I end up wasting a whole bunch of time waiting.
When I am comm I drop random res like there was no tomorrow, I dont defend them because it usually takes the alines longer to take em down than for the RTs to earn back their cost and make some extra RES
Even if I have a group of marines on their way to a hive I still have em cap a RES is they walk by it.
Trust me when I say this is GOLD. not only do you collect free res from RTs that go untouched most of the game, but you are SURE the aliens are not getting them (this works from alien side too)
SO when it comes time to cause mayham with HA and HMG u got enough of a flow to equip 4-5 marines with HA,HMG,WELD not to mention the constant upgrades in the Arms Lab
Give it a shot and check it out
Drawbacks:
Builder marine has no aim and gets munched before finishing the RT 22 res down the hole <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
An RT costs 22 to build, if its up for something like 45 seconds it makes back its cost and earns RES. In the rare case that Im actually on the ground (some a-hole hardasss hops in the chair with half the team screaming "No foll let GreyPaws do it") I find that the COMMs controlling me are never willing to take their mind off the front line to drop me a random RT (like at satation access alpha, or Triad, or anywhere thats uncapped) I find myself standing there for 3 min asking "RT at Alpha plz" (sending the I need Orders ping) If im not completeley ignored I end up wasting a whole bunch of time waiting.
When I am comm I drop random res like there was no tomorrow, I dont defend them because it usually takes the alines longer to take em down than for the RTs to earn back their cost and make some extra RES
Even if I have a group of marines on their way to a hive I still have em cap a RES is they walk by it.
Trust me when I say this is GOLD. not only do you collect free res from RTs that go untouched most of the game, but you are SURE the aliens are not getting them (this works from alien side too)
SO when it comes time to cause mayham with HA and HMG u got enough of a flow to equip 4-5 marines with HA,HMG,WELD not to mention the constant upgrades in the Arms Lab
Give it a shot and check it out
Drawbacks:
Builder marine has no aim and gets munched before finishing the RT 22 res down the hole <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
That 45 seconds thing is a little low for an estimate. If the .23x (where x is the number of players on your team) per 6 seconds estimate is correct then it breaks down like this:
1 player: 573.91 seconds
2 players: 286.96 seconds
3 players: 191.3 seconds
4 players: 143.48 seconds
5 players: 114.78 seconds
6 players: 95.65 seconds
7 players: 81.99 seconds
8 players: 71.74 seconds
9 players: 63.77 seconds
10 players: 57.39 seconds
11 players: 52.17 seconds
12 players: 47.83 seconds
13 players: 44.15 seconds
Still, in an average size game (say 8 on each team) it only takes a little over a minute to get back resources spent. In most cases thats a good investment.
--Frahg
Only in vital nodes like Pumping station or Triad Gen or Mess Hall are turrets worth their weight in RES
random middle map RTs are not worth defending
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That 45 seconds thing is a little low for an estimate. If the .23x (where x is the number of players on your team) per 6 seconds estimate is correct then it breaks down like this:
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thnx Man!
i dont like being commander much
(they just sit around, they see no BLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOODDD).
when other people are commanders tho, ive noticed a few of them didn't like doing 2 things...
1)Dropping RT's
2)Giving out good **obscenity**.
hed only give it to specific 2 or 3 players who "wouldnt waste it".
all aspiring commanders: listen to what this guy says. drop them RT's!
------------
obscenity? hmm, err... "Good ShaT!"
a) make one marine guard the res.
b) put a phase gate at the res, so if it goes under attack, soldiers can get there in a few secs...
c) combo of a) and b)
I only use turrets to fortify hives now, unles I have lots of excess resources.. then i like to go crazy and put turrets everywhere.. :D
-Lazerus
i dont like being commander much
(they just sit around, they see no BLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOODDD).
when other people are commanders tho, ive noticed a few of them didn't like doing 2 things...
1)Dropping RT's
2)Giving out good **obscenity**.
hed only give it to specific 2 or 3 players who "wouldnt waste it".
all aspiring commanders: listen to what this guy says. drop them RT's!
------------
obscenity? hmm, err... "Good ShaT!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
giving hmg/ha against skulks is a HUGE waste of money.
I was playing as marines and I had about 40x more kills then my whole team added up with LMG only
res towers should be lightly protected if at all unless they are essential to the team's cause, i.e. atmos processing on ns_bast(?) which when held can really boost your team's finances. Even then, if you don't protect them they'll pay for themselves incredibly quickly. I got a commander to bot build elsewhere and build 2 res towers there when we had no resources to give anyone HA or HMG. Within a few minutes we had 4 or 5 of us all fully kitted up and raring to go. Far better than the desperate struggle of lmg marines versus fades a few minutes previously.
Similarly, I've seen games lost for the aliens because a gorge will persist in building a res tower and then defending it with 3 o chambers and a d chamber. he then moves on and repeats the process. second hive goes up after long wait or not at all. personally, I forego all defences for any of my res chambers and just aim to get 3 or 4 up and then push for a hive. that way I get the hive up double quick and then build defences. I just tell the skulks that I'm not building any defences so they can have fades quicker and that they need to protect me and the res chambers. normally they prefer a few mins of boring "guard the bloody gorge" duty and then fun fades than lots of fun ambushes and no fades ever.
On a related note, far too often a commander/gorge will build defences for a res pt that if they did their job properly and built defences at a chokepoint nearby would not not need to be defended at all. If the chokepoint is built than the enemy will be unable to reach the res pt, thus they could have saved the resources for other things.
Its getting better I think, but we still have a long way to go before people learn the basics of RTS
All the RTs without defence got attacked within 10 seconds of the marine/s going off.
All the RTs without defence got attacked within 10 seconds of the marine/s going off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmmm.... Skulks cant be everywhere at once, and if they are busy chewing random RTs they arent defending their hives/gorges nor are they rushing your spawn...
as said above, if you seize certain bits of the map or attack other bits they'll stop trashing your res towers and come flying back to attack you. or if they don't more fool them as you'll no doubt siege their hive and kill them. this actually happened - the marines attacked with lmgs and the aliens off trashing res towers/marine main base all expected someone else to return and defend the hive and none did - d'oh! one dead hive and game over within just a few minutes...
I was in a game last night (Eclipse I think) we started, I asked for the chair, no one objected, but some moron ran toward it hopped in and started to build. I thought we were screwed, but instead of TF he built Obsrv. I thought OK finally some talent.
We helped him secure a hive (he dropped TF at eclipse comm and 4 turrets before I got munched) when I respawned I went to check on the Alpha RT node to my surprise it easnt built, I asked for it when the comm had 35 res he ignored me. I asked again, then he flamed me that he was busy taking eclipse. I said fine and went to Triad Gen, then node there was also uncapped, I asked and got flamed again, by this time he had phase gates at spawn and eclipse and he sent the marines to maintenance hive (he capped the node at eclipse) I checked on the Triad Alpha and Horse Nodes before going to maint and they were all empty, again I got flamed when I asked him to cap the nodes.
To make the long story short We had Maint and Eclipse the only RTs we had were at Spawn, Maint, and Eclipse. we had one player more than Khaara team, and they only had 1 hive and def chambs. They made a comeback, retook maint, got fades and won. Because our COMM was too lame to build RTs and couldnt afford upgrades while the aliens where making a counterattack for Maint
But what do I know, Im a noob... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
One time I had a very good marine, and just as an experiment, I had had run around the map, just building on all the nodes he came across. I was able to fully equip everyone on my team and research full tech less than halfway through the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As long as it stays up long enough to pay for itself, it's definitely worth it!
a) Cost the comm 22 rez
b) Cost him MORE in the space before they have to go & get it up again!
But if you're a lerk/skulk on your own, it just takes too long generally. Easier to get a friend <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In Reverse though, have you noticed how marines can't help but shoot at alien structures? Even though (if the alien players are good, and actively defending) it brings a small horde of skulks to them? It's like... "JESUS! DON'T SHOOT THAT MC! IT'LL DO NOTHING BUT BRING EM HERE!"
As a rule of thumb, I always tag every resource tower I see with a parasite if I"m too busy killing marines near our base, so that I can hope someone with a brain will go check it out and crunch it.
Ahh yes... I love people who dont read the post and just want to flame.
i dont like being commander much
(they just sit around, they see no BLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOODDD).
when other people are commanders tho, ive noticed a few of them didn't like doing 2 things...
1)Dropping RT's
2)Giving out good **obscenity**.
hed only give it to specific 2 or 3 players who "wouldnt waste it".
all aspiring commanders: listen to what this guy says. drop them RT's!
------------
obscenity? hmm, err... "Good ShaT!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
giving hmg/ha against skulks is a HUGE waste of money.
I was playing as marines and I had about 40x more kills then my whole team added up with LMG only<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you had at least 80 kills? First you go around saying you are the best skulk in the game on another thread, then you say you're getting 40x more kills than people? C'mon man, you're either playing with complete newbies or bots... or lying.
i dont like being commander much
(they just sit around, they see no BLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOODDD).
when other people are commanders tho, ive noticed a few of them didn't like doing 2 things...
1)Dropping RT's
2)Giving out good **obscenity**.
hed only give it to specific 2 or 3 players who "wouldnt waste it".
all aspiring commanders: listen to what this guy says. drop them RT's!
------------
obscenity? hmm, err... "Good ShaT!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
giving hmg/ha against skulks is a HUGE waste of money.
I was playing as marines and I had about 40x more kills then my whole team added up with LMG only<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you had at least 80 kills? First you go around saying you are the best skulk in the game on another thread, then you say you're getting 40x more kills than people? C'mon man, you're either playing with complete newbies or bots... or lying.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I call for plan b. This guy is on my Crap list.
Since noone answered, I will. Yes. As shown with the big list of numbers on the first page, the 22 res for the tower takes somewhere around a minute to be worth while. Add on a TF and 3-4 turrets and you've got 4-5 times the wait for it to become profitable.
Now, it might seem that the longevity bonus of placing the TF there will help you gain more res in the long run, right? Actually, placing turrets in a location will 1) call attention to it, and draw skulks in for the kill more than an isolated RC, and 2) won't do jack to stop them from killing the whole farm once the marines leave. It's rare for the turreted nozzle to turn profitable, with one major exception.
Double res node locations are obviosly well worth keeping, and I suggest you defend them with something. If your marines are useless, or only mildly effective, the turrets will be worth while (3 minutes or so to gain profit). Otherwise a phase gate could very well be enough, of just leave some marines there for a while as you tech.
Aditionally, you can have a couple of marines patrolling 2-3 RTs each to make sure they remain unscathed and welded. I tend to have such a role, and it usually earns me the first shotgun and the first jetpack. A quick, early jetpack basically makes me an invincible RT protector until aliens get their 2nd hive up and allows me to extend my patrol route to cover more RTs and respond quicker to attacks. Having a comm paying attention to and reporting "base under attack" alerts is a major plus.
Aditionally, you can have a couple of marines patrolling 2-3 RTs each to make sure they remain unscathed and welded. I tend to have such a role, and it usually earns me the first shotgun and the first jetpack. A quick, early jetpack basically makes me an invincible RT protector until aliens get their 2nd hive up and allows me to extend my patrol route to cover more RTs and respond quicker to attacks. Having a comm paying attention to and reporting "base under attack" alerts is a major plus. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah I love to patroll Triad/Alpoha/Horse very good way to keep Res
Don't wait for your marines to ask you to drop random RTs. <i>Send</i> one or two marines on a capping spree. Have them cap all over the map, preferably while the rest of the marines are keeping the skulks busy. Any node that's not right next to an alien hive should be capped at all times, if it's open, send a marine over.
If you can't multitask, commanding is not for you......
Another obvious tactics is building RT only near guarded area with phase (hive) and leaving at last 1 marine around to guard both hive and RT. But completly random RT.. no way, I think it works only against unprepared alien team.
Also, if it's only 1 skulk gnoshing on your resource node with no marine or mine to defend it, it'll usually a pretty simple matter to recycle the resource collector and get your full money's worth.
Same here, in fact the three other people who live with me who also play NS do exactly the same thing. As a skulk, you hunt res towers, and although you do get the investment back if they're destroyed quickly you're just back to where you started. I'm not saying this isn't a viable stratagy; we had it thrown against us once and they had jps in about 5 minutes. An advantage to capping random points is also that a lone gorge serching for a res point can't do anything about it if it is capped, as the spit takes forever to kill one and bulding some ocs to take it out just soaks up more res. For aliens though throwing up one oc is generally enough to secure a res point in early game (at least against lght opposition), and it's usually worth the investment because by the time you reach the next res point you've got the res back (as long as no-one else gos gorge. (building the oc inside the res tower is a great way to do this <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) For marines it's risky to leave res undefended, but fortifying a position justs costs too much for them, and besides their res towers have 2000 more hp. 1.1 may change a lot of this though, especially if the "all aliens evolvable at all times" idea is implemented, which would swing the emphasis right back onto holding res points to stop rapid alien evolution.
Don't wait for your marines to ask you to drop random RTs. <i>Send</i> one or two marines on a capping spree. Have them cap all over the map, preferably while the rest of the marines are keeping the skulks busy. Any node that's not right next to an alien hive should be capped at all times, if it's open, send a marine over.
If you can't multitask, commanding is not for you...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... I recognise this tactic.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hi Spectre.
Oh, and don't bother defending the RT's unless they are a strategically important area. Alien RT's need no defense at all, they take forever to kill with a knife and any half-brained skulk will run for it at the prospect of eating a knife.weilding marine. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->