Premature conclusions
DJ Splendid
Join Date: 2010-08-14 Member: 73629Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2010-08-14 Member: 73629Members, Constellation
Game is looking great.
However, lots of ill-conceived conclusions are being drawn prematurely and I want to rant about it a bit.
Taking the GL mechanic as an example, most would say that aliens presently dominate until marines get them, and then the aliens lose. I don't disagree with this as a description of what currently transpires in most games.
What vexes me is reactions like, 'OMG this is retarded / hate this / wasn't worth the money', and the other glut of silly, worthless comments and opinion s about balance and nuances in a game that isn't feature-complete; isn't stable; isn't fluid; and in which most players are not competant in the first place (and can't be, due to all the factors at the beginning of this list).
Order of events for people who aren't cognitively-challenged:
Wait for the technology to be stable and fluid (how can you judge any aspect of the game when the server is only giving you enough data for 2 frames a second?)
Wait for the game to be feature complete (how can you judge synergy/counters/effectiveness when all the pieces aren't in place and players don't know how to use them competantly?)
Wait for the game to be understood by most players in a given game.
Play at least ten games in this context.
THEN MAKE SOME MEANINGFUL CONSLUSIONS ABOUT BALANCE ET AL.
Come on. This is pretty elementary stuff, fellow humans. Pull ya finger out.
Of course the GL feels OP but aliens don't have the Onos yet.
Even the basic relationship between resource income and research time frames aren't meaningfully open to analysis until the game play is smooth.
I can't even reload without turning my flashlight on and off!
Go judge a flapjack by digging around in the oats. Muppets.
However, lots of ill-conceived conclusions are being drawn prematurely and I want to rant about it a bit.
Taking the GL mechanic as an example, most would say that aliens presently dominate until marines get them, and then the aliens lose. I don't disagree with this as a description of what currently transpires in most games.
What vexes me is reactions like, 'OMG this is retarded / hate this / wasn't worth the money', and the other glut of silly, worthless comments and opinion s about balance and nuances in a game that isn't feature-complete; isn't stable; isn't fluid; and in which most players are not competant in the first place (and can't be, due to all the factors at the beginning of this list).
Order of events for people who aren't cognitively-challenged:
Wait for the technology to be stable and fluid (how can you judge any aspect of the game when the server is only giving you enough data for 2 frames a second?)
Wait for the game to be feature complete (how can you judge synergy/counters/effectiveness when all the pieces aren't in place and players don't know how to use them competantly?)
Wait for the game to be understood by most players in a given game.
Play at least ten games in this context.
THEN MAKE SOME MEANINGFUL CONSLUSIONS ABOUT BALANCE ET AL.
Come on. This is pretty elementary stuff, fellow humans. Pull ya finger out.
Of course the GL feels OP but aliens don't have the Onos yet.
Even the basic relationship between resource income and research time frames aren't meaningfully open to analysis until the game play is smooth.
I can't even reload without turning my flashlight on and off!
Go judge a flapjack by digging around in the oats. Muppets.
Comments
I dont know whether there are users that are too attached to NS1 to see NS2 dare to be slightly too different, or whether some people believe that feedback to beta testing involves a 500 word opionated rant.
If said people could perhaps learn to convey their [rational] input without going over-the-top and making me facepalm all the time this forum would be much easier on the eyes and the same for the developers too (which is a good thing).
COMPLETELY DISAGREE YOU ARE SO WRONG GO DIE IN A FIRE
edit: TWICE
I'm not talking about the fact that I can't get more than 15FPS, I'm talking about the fact that they ruined the gameplay concept with alien comms, multiple comms, drifters/MACs, and the comm doesn't hand out the weapons and armors. I'll hold out until someone gets a mod addressing these things. People never complained about these things with NS1; the issues with mainly visual elements and hitboxes.
and after having played quite some games now i have to say, whoever says at that moment the game is "retarded" is.. well.. trolling lets say.
I'm not talking about the fact that I can't get more than 15FPS, I'm talking about the fact that they ruined the gameplay concept with alien comms, multiple comms, drifters/MACs, and the comm doesn't hand out the weapons and armors. I'll hold out until someone gets a mod addressing these things. People never complained about these things with NS1; the issues with mainly visual elements and hitboxes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People didn't complain you're right but they also weren't very good solutions either. The things people DID complain about were things like the commander basically had nothing to do after the first 5 - 10 minutes of the game and simply baby sat the marines and occasionally placed buildings it was a thankless job.
The current idea of the commanders is to give both sides an idea of direction and allow the commanders to actually have a hand in the battle than simply spamming med kit and the occasional "Res node at X".
There are things that need to be tweaked granted. You can guarantee that things will be changed dramatically by the time the game hits retail. You'll no doubt look back at these builds and thing "Wow, things have changed so much".
The issues you've raised don't really effect the core of the game that much if you look at it they only flesh out features of NS1 that were lacking.
IMHO the biggest reason that nade launchers and flamethrowers are game enders isn't so much the damage they can do (and blinding in the case of the flamethrower) but the fact that unlike in NS1 where the commander had to buy the weapons for the marines which they would also lose if they died and nobody could pick it up in time.
In NS2 as soon as they become available every marine on the team can get one and if they die they can just get another, resulting in the massive nade/flame spam. Both the nade launcher and the flamethrower should IMHO be more of an expensive specialist weapon that maybe one or two marines in a squad carries with them to support the rest of the squad. Pretty much how it was in NS1 that is. Even if they werent overpowered at all the very idea of every marine in a squad running around with flamethrowers just erases all traces of immersion for me.
And yes, normally the commander support the team, is his primary job.
XD
Plenty of premature conclusions threads around, not too sure why people trying to discuss balance in here though. I guess examples are always good to have.
and after having played quite some games now i have to say, whoever says at that moment the game is "retarded" is.. well.. trolling lets say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
I'm not crazy about the game at present but that's because I've not found a full server to play on, I get crap FPS right now, I've simply not played very much and the build is not entirely stable.
I think a lot of people have built up NS1 to be something Holy these last few years and any changes with NS2 are going to be raked with coals and sent through the fire multiple times before they become accepted. Some folks are open to change and others aren't; we'll see what happens.
oh gawds it back again?
However, by definition - its still alpha since its not "feature complete".