<!--quoteo(post=1809784:date=Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I agree that blink shouldn't be painful to use I am a little concerned that people are looking for the fade immortality pill. Fades can be complete and utter b******* to kill on NS1 as they are in their corporal flight mode, giving them the ability to wander up blink in, kill a marine and then disappear at their leisure to safety will just break the game as it would be just too frustrating for marines to carry on playing. Blinking should be a rapid hit and fade system (hence the name) but there does need to be skill and some drawbacks to it, some of the above ideas are very cool from a fade perspective but completely unreasonable from a balancing standpoint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? Fixing the fade blink system is imbalanced? We're just trying to make it easier to play. I don't think handicapping an alien unit by forcing it to always blink towards a marine should be just for balance...
<!--quoteo(post=1809784:date=Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...giving them the ability to wander up blink in, kill a marine and then disappear at their leisure to safety will just break the game as it would be just too frustrating for marines to carry on playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're describing the Fade from NS1 and I really don't think that completely killed the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1809105:date=Nov 23 2010, 11:43 PM:name=Plasma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Plasma @ Nov 23 2010, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dunno if it was posted; but maybe just make it simply you right click to blink facing the current direction, while left click faces the nearest POI - easy and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1, this please UWE.
Also, if you haven't already, make it so the POI has a max range or goes to "last sighted marine" so fade can't abuse like motion tracking :P
<!--quoteo(post=1810252:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:48 AM:name=tk-421)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tk-421 @ Nov 25 2010, 08:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? Fixing the fade blink system is imbalanced? We're just trying to make it easier to play. I don't think handicapping an alien unit by forcing it to always blink towards a marine should be just for balance...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. Also, if there's anything we've learned from NS1, lifeforms need ways to scale in skill with the marines. Onos didn't and it never really got anywhere. Simply nerfing movement to a certain extend isn't going to create a balanced lifeform.
Might just be me but im a fan of being able to cancel it if i decide not to blink, and attack instead. Using left click to blink aswell would be pretty annoying in that respect.
Since shift has no use for fade atm, the above idea but using shift+right click instead of left click would work better imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1810002:date=Nov 24 2010, 02:09 PM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Nov 24 2010, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fade should blink facing the direction he was facing before. In my opinion, the hologram should be an option and the blink should work with 1-click.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. left/right click to choose between POI and forwards only works if you have the hologram. It would be nice to not NEED the hologram. As such, left clicking with the hologram out should just be a normal attack.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
i was not reading through all post, maybe this idea has already been mentioned:
2 times right click -> teleport and dont change direction you are facing (flee) 1 right click, then left click -> teleport and change direction to nearest target (attack)
i cant believe this hasnt been suggested yet, but how about while your apparation is visible (ie, you're looking at where you'll land when you teleport) have a second camera where your destination will be overlayed on your view, so you'll be looking out of your own eyes at 75% opacity, and out of your destination's eyes at 25% opacity (or some ratio like that). that way, you just need to get used to looking at 2 things at once. Also, you cant suck up both left and right mice into this, cause then how would you suggest cancelling tele quickly?
an option to not auto face would be nice, like say, holding ctrl or shift, but not left mouse.
And ofc, get rid of the annoying stuff like targetting buildings over marines (also, targetting power nodes that have already been destroyed while im on my way towards the enemy base? thats just annoying)
The only problem that i can see with my suggestion really is that it might make resource consumption on your computer spike whenever you try to tele (having to render twice)
you posted the exact same suggestion in the other thread. (why do we have 2 threads?)
it seems overly complicated, and wouldn't really help fight the disorientation... most likely the second imagine over image would just add to it.
why not give the fade two Blink types? a movement blink and attack blink. movement blink would be a simple right click, once, doesn't show the fade hologram, and just blinks you to where your mouse is the instant you click right, or to the max range if you aim into the sky or down a long hallway, without changing your facing. so to move quickly around the map you simply have to continuously click the right mouse button, and move the mouse where you want to go. we could tweak this with Schkorpio's suggestion and make you face away from the wall if you hit one. but that would take away the challenge to navigate the map without "slamming" into a wall.
combat blink could be the blink you have now, with illusionary Fade image and POI facing.(obviously Marines > buildings should be implemented in any case) and could, like suggested before, be activated with a toggle or modifier key and then right clicking. Alt for instance.
we could streamline it even more, that if you press Alt once, the fade hologram shows up and you just have to right click to get to it, instead of holding Alt down and then right clicking and then having to click again to actually Blink. this way we can bind Swipe always to mouse 1, and could make it that we can cancel "hologram Blinking" by tapping Alt again.
Disclaimer: I didn't play the beta, so I can just speculate by watching Gameplay Videos. what do you think, could this work?
<!--quoteo(post=1810002:date=Nov 25 2010, 01:09 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Nov 25 2010, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fade should blink facing the direction he was facing before. In my opinion, the hologram should be an option and the blink should work with 1-click.
Also I hope as an shift-fire you could have a NS1-style blink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I blink like this and it is quit effective.
Blink in from about max range, hit the marine once or maybe twice. Then blink out to max range again, after which I blink back into the group and swipe again once or twice. Two Fades doing this together will be very confusing for the marines.
I'm effectively slowing down the blinking by blinking in and out over a distance, makes blinking a lot easier to do and still have a maximum of impact. Unless awesome shotty marine with good aim get of a few shots, but that is dangerous anyway you swipe it :P
Maybe we need a poll. Temporary stasis to let you rotate? Buttons combo to decide re-orient versus straight jumping? Options menu (personally not as big of a fan of this idea, what if I want all 3 options at my fingertips?).
Biggest problem will be managing the complexity. I remember teaching Aliens in NS1 and one time a guys was like "oh, that's how you do that?". Having like 3 options and different button combos to pull it off can get tough quick.
I think a Toggle key, or a modifier key to activate the current blink would be best.
so that you can just blink without turning or hologram to get around where your mouse points and right clicking, and when you Hold or Press Alt the hologram appears and you can just blink as now with right click too.
The fade should just be in a limbo state for a fraction of a second where he can see where he's going to be but no one can see him yet. Let him orient, turn, move slightly during that time. This solves the disorientation problem and also makes the fade slightly slower at escaping. Win-win.
<!--quoteo(post=1806716:date=Nov 19 2010, 04:34 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Nov 19 2010, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So i've been blinking around with the fade for a good 30 minutes with some bots. pretty fun :)
Some ideas to make it better:
1.Make the fade hologram see through, and slightly smaller.
2.Get rid of the "facing points of interest" thing, and replace it with "face away from wall" <b>so that when ever you blink into a wall, you are facing away from it rather than towards.</b> the facing points of interest automatically is really hard to use quickly, and makes you potentially blink around in circles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dont get rid of facing points of interest (marines) i liked that. but definitely do the "face away from wall." everyone can agree to that.
well, UWE just made the Fade's POI facing distance really short now.. I imagine short enough that you can blink past people without a problem and face them when you blink onto them.
Comments
Fades can be complete and utter b******* to kill on NS1 as they are in their corporal flight mode, giving them the ability to wander up blink in, kill a marine and then disappear at their leisure to safety will just break the game as it would be just too frustrating for marines to carry on playing.
Blinking should be a rapid hit and fade system (hence the name) but there does need to be skill and some drawbacks to it, some of the above ideas are very cool from a fade perspective but completely unreasonable from a balancing standpoint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? Fixing the fade blink system is imbalanced? We're just trying to make it easier to play. I don't think handicapping an alien unit by forcing it to always blink towards a marine should be just for balance...
<!--quoteo(post=1809784:date=Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 24 2010, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...giving them the ability to wander up blink in, kill a marine and then disappear at their leisure to safety will just break the game as it would be just too frustrating for marines to carry on playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're describing the Fade from NS1 and I really don't think that completely killed the game.
+1, this please UWE.
Also, if you haven't already, make it so the POI has a max range or goes to "last sighted marine" so fade can't abuse like motion tracking :P
This. Also, if there's anything we've learned from NS1, lifeforms need ways to scale in skill with the marines. Onos didn't and it never really got anywhere. Simply nerfing movement to a certain extend isn't going to create a balanced lifeform.
Since shift has no use for fade atm, the above idea but using shift+right click instead of left click would work better imo.
This. left/right click to choose between POI and forwards only works if you have the hologram. It would be nice to not NEED the hologram. As such, left clicking with the hologram out should just be a normal attack.
2 times right click -> teleport and dont change direction you are facing (flee)
1 right click, then left click -> teleport and change direction to nearest target (attack)
an option to not auto face would be nice, like say, holding ctrl or shift, but not left mouse.
And ofc, get rid of the annoying stuff like targetting buildings over marines (also, targetting power nodes that have already been destroyed while im on my way towards the enemy base? thats just annoying)
The only problem that i can see with my suggestion really is that it might make resource consumption on your computer spike whenever you try to tele (having to render twice)
it seems overly complicated, and wouldn't really help fight the disorientation... most likely the second imagine over image would just add to it.
why not give the fade two Blink types? a movement blink and attack blink.
movement blink would be a simple right click, once, doesn't show the fade hologram, and just blinks you to where your mouse is the instant you click right, or to the max range if you aim into the sky or down a long hallway, without changing your facing. so to move quickly around the map you simply have to continuously click the right mouse button, and move the mouse where you want to go.
we could tweak this with Schkorpio's suggestion and make you face away from the wall if you hit one. but that would take away the challenge to navigate the map without "slamming" into a wall.
combat blink could be the blink you have now, with illusionary Fade image and POI facing.(obviously Marines > buildings should be implemented in any case) and could, like suggested before, be activated with a toggle or modifier key and then right clicking. Alt for instance.
we could streamline it even more, that if you press Alt once, the fade hologram shows up and you just have to right click to get to it, instead of holding Alt down and then right clicking and then having to click again to actually Blink.
this way we can bind Swipe always to mouse 1, and could make it that we can cancel "hologram Blinking" by tapping Alt again.
Disclaimer: I didn't play the beta, so I can just speculate by watching Gameplay Videos.
what do you think, could this work?
Also I hope as an shift-fire you could have a NS1-style blink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
This is good especially the one click blink.
I doubt I could settle with any other.
Blink in from about max range, hit the marine once or maybe twice. Then blink out to max range again, after which I blink back into the group and swipe again once or twice. Two Fades doing this together will be very confusing for the marines.
I'm effectively slowing down the blinking by blinking in and out over a distance, makes blinking a lot easier to do and still have a maximum of impact. Unless awesome shotty marine with good aim get of a few shots, but that is dangerous anyway you swipe it :P
it would be nice to hear a moderators or even a Dev's response to the ideas here, but I don't want them to distract from work for that.
I think a simple 1 way facing right click instant blink with Modifier key POI blink will work fine. woah, a mouthful.
Maybe we need a poll. Temporary stasis to let you rotate? Buttons combo to decide re-orient versus straight jumping? Options menu (personally not as big of a fan of this idea, what if I want all 3 options at my fingertips?).
Biggest problem will be managing the complexity. I remember teaching Aliens in NS1 and one time a guys was like "oh, that's how you do that?". Having like 3 options and different button combos to pull it off can get tough quick.
so that you can just blink without turning or hologram to get around where your mouse points and right clicking,
and when you Hold or Press Alt the hologram appears and you can just blink as now with right click too.
Some ideas to make it better:
1.Make the fade hologram see through, and slightly smaller.
2.Get rid of the "facing points of interest" thing, and replace it with "face away from wall" <b>so that when ever you blink into a wall, you are facing away from it rather than towards.</b>
the facing points of interest automatically is really hard to use quickly, and makes you potentially blink around in circles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dont get rid of facing points of interest (marines) i liked that. but definitely do the "face away from wall." everyone can agree to that.
away from click -> see shadow copie -> click -> blink to position
to
push button down -> see shadow copie -> release button -> blink
If you need to release the blink you cant cancel it.