Lack of jump momentum/inertia

PSAPSA Join Date: 2009-10-21 Member: 69107Members
Am I the only one bothered by the lack of momentum/inertia when you jump? Its kind of unnerving to be able to change directions mid air as a marine, and counter intuitive to what I'm used to in FPS games. A while ago I just chalked it up to Alpha/early Beta but it doesn't seem like its getting removed? Unless I'm missing something.

Comments

  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    good question, that doesnt sound right
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    you can't jump and leap either, that's really weird. you can stand and jump but jumping and leaping you can't.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    leap currently is there only as a means for skulks to reach high places.

    later you will be able to research proper leap which will allow you to jump/run leap just like in ns1



    but yes the marine movement is a bit strange currently
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    research to make leap jump further, is good but without research leap should be usable while jumping since the leap distance is the same.
  • FuzionMonkeyFuzionMonkey Join Date: 2005-05-04 Member: 50889Members
    Obviously the marine jumping will be fixed in the future but probably is currently seen as low priority.

    However, I think player movement details, no matter how minor play a huge role in the feel of the game. Obviously the game isn't finished, but these details add up and really have a bad impact on gameplay.

    Marine jumping does really feel weird in its current state.
  • PSAPSA Join Date: 2009-10-21 Member: 69107Members
    Ok. I'm slightly relieved that I didn't get an answer like "thats the way its suppozed ta be duh!" or something. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

    I'm plenty patient. I can wait. My priorities aren't the dev's ;)
  • SilverwingSilverwing bulletsponge Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23395Members, Constellation
    I agree with the OP but tbh I'd rather have sticky skulks in the early game and fast/leapy skulks in the later. Marines movement seems fine to me, except for the issue OP brings up.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    It's called air control and back in the day was in every FPS. It is a little extreme right now, but it fits the arcade part of NS's gameplay..
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1821660:date=Jan 5 2011, 08:30 PM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Jan 5 2011, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok. I'm slightly relieved that I didn't get an answer like "thats the way its suppozed ta be duh!" or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1821672:date=Jan 5 2011, 09:38 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jan 5 2011, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's called air control and back in the day was in every FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    lol.

    But yes, like much of an FPS is an approximation to real life - doing things however you can so that they're intuitive and produce results, even if the method isn't so true to life - jumping is in the same vein. Just as mouselook, where, due to limited controls, your -entire body, head, eyes, and gun- move as one, is an unrealistic approximation to movement and firing that effectively produces the same simulated result; air control makes up for the fact that due to the limitations of the controls, you cannot jump exactly where you choose to jump as you would be able to in real life (you're limited by the eight cardinal directions, relative to your viewpoint; and a standard jump distance) - with air control, although unrealistic in practice, it simulates the same result - you jump where you choose to.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    Having grown up with the first generation of FPS games I just can't get into most of the modern iterations. Lack of air control is one reason.
  • PaiSandPaiSand Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33487Members
    edited January 2011
    Lets see.
    If you jump, can you change direction in middle of air? No.
    If you jump, can you jump again in middle of air? No.

    So, why a marine will change direction of the jump in mid-air if it's not a real thing, and why an skulk should leap in mid-air if has nothing on what push himself...

    I always found that mid-air change of path is a little strange. It is nice on a comic based game but not on a game with a certain level of reality. Don't get me wrong, I don't know if UWE will add this or not, it just feel strange to me.
    As for the skulk, no matter I miss the leap in mid-air, now it works like this. So, you have to be more skilled to master the leap. Short leap to the wall, ceiling, floor; long leap over the marines and fall behind them. It is really fun to perform that.
  • elmo33elmo33 Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68377Members
    I agree the current air control is a bit weird, and will be fine whit little refinement, as for people saying there shouldnt be any air control at all; I hope youre joking.
  • PSAPSA Join Date: 2009-10-21 Member: 69107Members
    edited January 2011
    Excluded Middle or what?

    Just because you can't change directions mid air doesn't mean there isn't air control. I don't recall NS1 having that level of ridiculous air control, nor do other "arcade style shooters" I play like Dystopia for example. In fact, the best air-control and movement control has always come from timing jumps and air strafes correctly, working with a constant in-air momentum not wiggling around in mid air (see bhopping or backwards jump-180-turn, etc)
  • elmo33elmo33 Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68377Members
    Whit the no air control comment I was referring more to PaiSands "I always found that mid-air change of path is a little strange..." which is what air control is all about. And yes, like I said, currently the air control in NS2 is very wonky, and I hope it gets refined to work more like in its predecessor.
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
    Mm, I hate people who claim bunny hopping is skill, it's not. :P
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1821719:date=Jan 5 2011, 07:04 PM:name=Mkilbride)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Jan 5 2011, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mm, I hate people who claim bunny hopping is skill, it's not. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Does it require practice to do? Yes. Does it require understanding of the game physics? Yes. Does it give an advantage? Yes. Does it require good decision making to make it useful? Yes.

    I got baited, sorry.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Currently aircontrol makes it possible to leap around a 90 degree corner, kinda over controlling atm...
  • PaiSandPaiSand Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33487Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1821746:date=Jan 5 2011, 04:48 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Jan 5 2011, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it require practice to do? Yes. Does it require understanding of the game physics? Yes. Does it give an advantage? Yes. Does it require good decision making to make it useful? Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know any single player that master bh without the aid of an script/macro.

    Anyway, on topic, I think that the current jump movement is the correct one for the game. You can jump and turn around, but can't change direction in mid-air, which is more realistic and feels great.

    Changing direction in mid-air on NS2 is lame. To do this we will have jetpacks. I don't care what other games do, they can be as crappy as they want but NS2 must remain the best.
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1821750:date=Jan 5 2011, 08:55 PM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Jan 5 2011, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know any single player that master bh without the aid of an script/macro.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Then you know very little. Actually you think you know some things, but they're wrong.
  • PaiSandPaiSand Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33487Members
    I'm right, and I keep what I said. Not a single player master bh without script/macro.
    Of course, if you go around alone with no combat at all you can do it, even the fact that is incredible difficult to achieve (timing the jump), but I'm talking about real gameplay scenario.
    I have talked to many players, real good players, and non of them could do it without an script/macro.

    Now, tjosan, if you know a little about bh and how it works on source-gold you should know this. It's the same thing with the flying skulk.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    ARGH NOT THIS AGAIN
  • scary_jeffscary_jeff Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18459Members
    No need for a macro or script, just bind mwheelup and mwheeldown to +jump, bhop changes from 'very hard to do even on a local server' to 'pretty easy and fun to learn'. mwheel is pretty useless for skulk anyway, since we got +movement. I use mouse4 to select parasite. Once you get used to using buttons to select weapons, the mousewheel starts to feel pretty slow as well. I'm not trying to have a go, I just couldn't 'get' bhop until someone told me this.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1821753:date=Jan 5 2011, 12:15 PM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Jan 5 2011, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm right, and I keep what I said. Not a single player master bh without script/macro.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you're wrong. plain and simple. bunny hopping is definably something that requires skill to pull off effectively (if you plan on killing while doing it) and is done without scripts. in fact, scripts are a poor poor gimmick that do not achieve the same results.
    i have played against Fatal1ty, the number one fps player out there (quake 3, painkiller, cs etc) and its all he does.
    i've been bunny hopping personally since Quake days circa 1996.
    in a game that has A) air control to any degree and B) aggregate acceleration
    bunny hopping will be possible.

    in the words of stewie griffin: "Educate yourself, you fool"

    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_hopping" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_hopping</a>

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlZhDOqlPTc&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlZhDOqlPTc...feature=related</a>
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1821746:date=Jan 5 2011, 07:48 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Jan 5 2011, 07:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it require practice to do? Yes. Does it require understanding of the game physics? Yes. Does it give an advantage? Yes. Does it require good decision making to make it useful? Yes.

    I got baited, sorry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Unfortunately it widens the skill gap between players in the same way that people who join the game without having any previous knowledge of the game, it only does more harm than good for public play.
  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    bhop is definitely a skill.

    It is also a skill that requires some sort of rebinding/macro/script to be able to access.
    It is also a skill that is unintuitive -- it requires out of game instruction in order to determine how to do it.

    That said, doing it well is definitely a skill. Just get rid of those last two points, and I'd be all in favor of it.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1821818:date=Jan 5 2011, 03:39 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 5 2011, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it only does more harm than good for public play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    gonna have to disagree with ya there, slightly..

    NS survived not due to public popularity but because of the competitive scene.
    this is true for most games which achieve "competitive" stature. after they lose their luster the "hardcore" players remain behind to compete.
    in the age of "consolization" (i know i'm going crazy with quotes) its important to remember not to forget the hardcore player fanbase as well. too often these days i see games severely dumbed down for the console age - removing gameplay mechanics which would be considered hardcore for the sake of lessening this skill gap. instead of nerfing or removing skill requiring gameplay mechanics, allow them to be accessible only by extremely difficult means, so to lessen that immediate gap, while also allowing the lesser players an opportunity to achieve this said skill level.

    its essentially akin to saying, "well not everyone can do what johnny does. so johnny: stop doing that so other people can enjoy themselves." when johnny is a friggin prodigal student. holding back the talented and skilled doesnt make for an even playing field so much as it does remove the skilled players whom get bored very easily with being held back.
    for examples, look towards those games that never inhibited the "hardcore" player.. they still have servers up even if the game is 7 years old etc.

    all imho
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    Oh great, another argument about bunnyhopping.

    Apologies to the OP, but this is no longer going into good places.
This discussion has been closed.