<!--QuoteBegin--SilverHorse+Dec 12 2002, 10:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverHorse @ Dec 12 2002, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If they want to run their servers the way they want, let them code their own damn mod.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Brillant, just brillant......NOT!!! I suppose you dont like server ops changing FF modes or similar in other games then uh?
I personaly think autokill should not have been implimented, I used to have fun trying to find the last Alien/s or Marine that might be hiding, and the game does state "KILL THEM ALL" how when autokill does it for you, Aliens are prevented in trying for a comeback, If Aliens die when there last hive goes down so should the marines when there last CC dies, after all Marines can build more then 3 CC's Aliens have only the 3 hives and no choice in where they go, Marines can build bases in Vents if they wish and hide, Make it so Marines die when there last CC dies or remove the autokill (my personal choice) is what I say. :-)
What I don't get, now that the game restarts when there is a 5 person difference, or when an entire team quits if there is less than 5 players on the opposite team, is why people don't just go back into the ready room and get the game started (I'm talking about the marines here, not the cowardly, grief playing aliens.)
Quitting out to get the next game going doesn't mean you have lost, if the aliens start saying they won, just laugh at them. You know you won, so why bother playing into their little mind games? Be the bigger person and press F4 to go to the ready room... You still won the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--PJ-+Dec 12 2002, 08:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PJ- @ Dec 12 2002, 08:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think autokill is a mistake. If people are dealing with Aliens who are hiding, use motion tracking and sensor sweeps. Problem solved.
If aliens get auto killed, I think Marines should as well. A marine with jetpack can hide in 99% of the annoying places Aliens can. Plus they hide with NO sound, can't show up on any sort of Alien motion tracking, and don't have the regenerate sound Aliens do. I've had more problems with Marines hiding than Aliens in 1.03.
I have personally built around 15 defensive chambers from one end of the under water passage to another between Refinery and Feedwater on ns_bast. Our entire team hid down there, with the defensive chambers keeping us from drowning or dying from auto kill. Seeing a team full of heavies come at you with knifes under water, slowing drowning and dying from gorge spit was just about the funniest thing I've ever seen. Took them a good 10 minutes to find all the locations to Siege us from to take out the entire tunnel. Before I get flamed, this was a private game among friends, on a passworded server. =)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> funniest. thing. ever. (i was there)
i think autokill sucks...who cares if someone camps in vents the commander can scan the whole damn map and find them, then have jetpackers go kill them.
I think autokill sucks too. Before it was added I had been in more than one game where the aliens managed to retake hives, rebuild, and win. My vote, as if I had one, would be that two things be added in the next server release: autokill be expanded to kill Marines if their last CC gets destroyed, and that the whole autokill option becomes a server variable that ops can disable if they wish.
LoL The thing I find funny, is the fact that if the mod had been released under its current system (with autokill), no one would complain a damn, cuz they didn't know any better. If at a later date the game was changed so that the autokill was removed, everyone would be complaining that "omg teh lamer aliens they are hiding in teh vents like lamers!"
For me personally, I don't care about the 1 in a million amazing alien comebacks that are possible without the autokill. In all the games prior to 1.03 which I had played (suffice to say a lot :\ ) I saw maybe 2 amazing alien comebacks.
To want them to remove the autokill in lieu of all the lamers you KNOW are going to go back to abusing vent-camping just so you can have the *remote possibility* of making some brave last rush at the enemy is simply selfish. That's causing numerous untold future players grief just so you can have a few more moments of potential satisfaction. The benefits of taking out auto-kill are far outweighed by the grievences.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NO! Let the server op's run their own servers the way they want.. gg. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about no, The NS team made the mod and they have every right to make sure it is played the way they want it to be played. Its my hope that they hardcode more things so we won't have people like voogru crapping all over their artistic masterpiece
The autokill feature is stupid and annoying and only really affects pub servers where you will find a child who would be lame enough to hide in a vent to prolong a match and **obscenity** everyone off.
This countdown if not outright removed <b>should at least become a server-side OPTION</b> so those of us who play on private servers with genuine players don't have to put up with it - there are plenty of times when a gorge has the resources to start a hive and has evaded the marines who kill the initial hive and the gorge dies from the countdown when it probably could have survived long enuogh to build another hive allowing aliens to respawn and get a second chance at fighting.
Also, to be fair, Marines should get a countdown when they no longer have a CC. Again, OPTIONAL though.
But who needs voogru crapping all over it when the developers start doing such extreme things that mess up the game?
When this autokill thing was first mentioned in connection with 1.03, I was pretty certain it was just something someone had seen on a modded server, and that the dev team would never do something so silly to "solve" a non-problem. Hell, I used to enjoy the final alien hunt. It spoils the marine win experience.
Please take it out, or make it configurable. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Every other 1.03 change/fix is great...
I was in a game once, as a marine, and we tried using a different strategy of continually rushing the alien hive
We managed to take it down, (we still only had lmgs at this point, no armour/upgrades etc) and the countdown started, and went on for about 4 minutes while we were looking for them...then the beeping stopped, turns out one of the gorges had def chambers at another hive in a well defended spot and was waiting for enough resources for another hive. We should have got him before then, but everyone was telling me they thought the last alien must have been at the hive on the other side of the map, so he survived out of sheer luck, but he made a comeback, I don't remember who won, but I do remember them getting enough defences etc to be a threat again...
<!--QuoteBegin--JRock+Dec 12 2002, 02:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JRock @ Dec 12 2002, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The autokill feature is stupid and annoying and only really affects pub servers where you will find a child who would be lame enough to hide in a vent to prolong a match and **obscenity** everyone off.
This countdown if not outright removed <b>should at least become a server-side OPTION</b> so those of us who play on private servers with genuine players don't have to put up with it - there are plenty of times when a gorge has the resources to start a hive and has evaded the marines who kill the initial hive and the gorge dies from the countdown when it probably could have survived long enuogh to build another hive allowing aliens to respawn and get a second chance at fighting.
Also, to be fair, Marines should get a countdown when they no longer have a CC. Again, OPTIONAL though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, yes, yes. What he said.
Haw. Yes voogru is the devil, modding the game to the way he wants to play it on his own server, using his own bandwidth, that he is paying for. It's an outrage! Why should server operators ever mod the game to the way they want to play it!
I also think that half-life shouldn't of been moddable because games like counter-strike and natural-selection and team fortress classic were not the way half-life deathmatch was meant to be played!
Yeah, and ofcourse a server option for autokill would be lame, I mean, that'd give more power to the server admins, who need to be reminded that they are playing Natural-Selection, and not some lame game where both of the teams might get a fair chance against stacked odds.
A marine countdown would be dumb too. Why make it equal? I mean, no marine commander should have to use sensor sweep to find anything, that'd be rediculous. So obviously this timer thing is great, and no one should discuss it anymore!
I did something similar recently on a small game- we had a wall of def's up, so while our last gorge frantically tried to get to the hive site- myself and the one other remaining player camped out at these def chambers to counteract this utterly idiotic auto-killing. I was a **obscenity** and steadfastly remained there even after our gorge failed miserably and died, the other skulk having rushed off to the nearby res outpost (and died, predictably)- the marines eventually found me and although I bit mightily I still died. Moral of the story- the excact same problem exists, excepts it's more annoying as a tension killer. Seriously, comm's too lazy/stupid/ignorant to use sensor sweep at end game need to be rounded up and submented to **obscenity** **obscenity** with a big **obscenity**. Perhaps instead of this slow degeneration (which you might as well replace with instant-death in some situautions... bah) every alien could become clearly marked on the commanders map? This would still give brain-de- uh, strategically challenged marine teams an advantage for clear up, while retaining much of the last-dash to claim a new hive...
i think your idea is good, but i think something like all aliens running around screaming if they have no hive would be better, and i think it should be seriously considered..
it could be the loss of the hive mind (the confussion! the pain!) that makes them scream, and after running around for a while a marine would alwasy hear the screaming alien..
they should also lose hivesight until a new hive gets up... also, they could be in such a mental turmoil that their ability to cloak was completely farked...
their only goal at that point should be the feeling that they want a new hive up..
Haven't read any replies, only the first post, so if I'm repeating anything I'm sorry but:
Since marines have ALL the tools to find aliens and clear out the infestation, (that's kinda the point right?), such as: Observation Towers with Motion Tracking and Scanner Sweeps, and Jetpacks; why are the aliens the only ones being punished for hiding, when it is the aliens who are, (or were), the only ones with the ability to actually come back from utter defeat by the skill of 1 player who managed to get a new hive started and save his team. (Presumably this is how the whole mess started in the first place, is it not?
One <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> -> One <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> , and that One <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> build One HIVE creating a whole mess o' trouble for the <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Frankly, I LOVE seeing an alien just sit and camp in a Defense Chamber forrest right now, because it makes the marines actually have to complete thier mission objective to win: Wipe out all the Kahaara!
On the flip side, I HATE having to seach out the lone, uninjured marine with a jetpack, who's crouching in a vent with a shotgun, or HMG, abusing the range, and hitbox advantage the vent affords a 6'2" marine with equipment over an organic life-form MEANT for small spaces, with (supposed) quickness and agility, and close range combat dominance.
I have suggested server side option many times. I think Count down, team balencing, and no team switching should all be server options. Also, I think a Marine count down should be enabled / disabled with the same variable as the Aliens.
Simple solution, people can have their cake and eat it too.... Just on different servers. =)
I think my last post was a bit negative, so here's a positive suggestion.
I really don't like the autokill. Especially with the big ping noise that stops as soon as a hive starts going up, making the marines go rushing to find it. Where's the stealth element gone?
In the majority of games, hiding aliens (or marines) is not a problem, and it is FUN to hunt them down. Autokill is an overly drastic attempt to fix a small amount of lameness on public servers.
I therefore suggest that autokill be removed entirely, and be replaced by a scheme similar to the "automatic win when 1 team leaves", which was added to 1.03.
The new rule should be something like:
IF (hives=0 OR ccs=0) AND (players_in_ready_room >= players_in_game) THEN GAME_OVER
This will allow players to CHOOSE whether to end any lameness when it happens. They could sort of do it already by 1 team all going to ready room, but that's a bit tricky because the teams have to be made imbalanced. This additional rule should sort it out. Maybe the game:ready room ratio could be adjusted slightly, but I'm convinced that the idea is sound, and much better than 1.03's attempted fix.
Comments
U have such a foul mouth, man.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway... who's the lammer? the one who hides on a vent or his teammates who don't head to RR? Anyway, they are already defeated.
DaDDeh
Quitting out to get the next game going doesn't mean you have lost, if the aliens start saying they won, just laugh at them. You know you won, so why bother playing into their little mind games? Be the bigger person and press F4 to go to the ready room... You still won the game.
If aliens get auto killed, I think Marines should as well. A marine with jetpack can hide in 99% of the annoying places Aliens can. Plus they hide with NO sound, can't show up on any sort of Alien motion tracking, and don't have the regenerate sound Aliens do. I've had more problems with Marines hiding than Aliens in 1.03.
I have personally built around 15 defensive chambers from one end of the under water passage to another between Refinery and Feedwater on ns_bast. Our entire team hid down there, with the defensive chambers keeping us from drowning or dying from auto kill. Seeing a team full of heavies come at you with knifes under water, slowing drowning and dying from gorge spit was just about the funniest thing I've ever seen. Took them a good 10 minutes to find all the locations to Siege us from to take out the entire tunnel. Before I get flamed, this was a private game among friends, on a passworded server. =)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
funniest. thing. ever.
(i was there)
The thing I find funny, is the fact that if the mod had been released under its current system (with autokill), no one would complain a damn, cuz they didn't know any better.
If at a later date the game was changed so that the autokill was removed, everyone would be complaining that "omg teh lamer aliens they are hiding in teh vents like lamers!"
For me personally, I don't care about the 1 in a million amazing alien comebacks that are possible without the autokill. In all the games prior to 1.03 which I had played (suffice to say a lot :\ ) I saw maybe 2 amazing alien comebacks.
To want them to remove the autokill in lieu of all the lamers you KNOW are going to go back to abusing vent-camping just so you can have the *remote possibility* of making some brave last rush at the enemy is simply selfish. That's causing numerous untold future players grief just so you can have a few more moments of potential satisfaction. The benefits of taking out auto-kill are far outweighed by the grievences.
Hide out in an abandoned hive, build up the defenses, sit there and get resources till you got 80, build the hive.... Tada
How about no, The NS team made the mod and they have every right to make sure it is played the way they want it to be played. Its my hope that they hardcode more things so we won't have people like voogru crapping all over their artistic masterpiece
This countdown if not outright removed <b>should at least become a server-side OPTION</b> so those of us who play on private servers with genuine players don't have to put up with it - there are plenty of times when a gorge has the resources to start a hive and has evaded the marines who kill the initial hive and the gorge dies from the countdown when it probably could have survived long enuogh to build another hive allowing aliens to respawn and get a second chance at fighting.
Also, to be fair, Marines should get a countdown when they no longer have a CC. Again, OPTIONAL though.
When this autokill thing was first mentioned in connection with 1.03, I was pretty certain it was just something someone had seen on a modded server, and that the dev team would never do something so silly to "solve" a non-problem. Hell, I used to enjoy the final alien hunt. It spoils the marine win experience.
Please take it out, or make it configurable. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Every other 1.03 change/fix is great...
We managed to take it down, (we still only had lmgs at this point, no armour/upgrades etc) and the countdown started, and went on for about 4 minutes while we were looking for them...then the beeping stopped, turns out one of the gorges had def chambers at another hive in a well defended spot and was waiting for enough resources for another hive. We should have got him before then, but everyone was telling me they thought the last alien must have been at the hive on the other side of the map, so he survived out of sheer luck, but he made a comeback, I don't remember who won, but I do remember them getting enough defences etc to be a threat again...
Comebacks are just rarer...
This countdown if not outright removed <b>should at least become a server-side OPTION</b> so those of us who play on private servers with genuine players don't have to put up with it - there are plenty of times when a gorge has the resources to start a hive and has evaded the marines who kill the initial hive and the gorge dies from the countdown when it probably could have survived long enuogh to build another hive allowing aliens to respawn and get a second chance at fighting.
Also, to be fair, Marines should get a countdown when they no longer have a CC. Again, OPTIONAL though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, yes, yes. What he said.
I also think that half-life shouldn't of been moddable because games like counter-strike and natural-selection and team fortress classic were not the way half-life deathmatch was meant to be played!
Yeah, and ofcourse a server option for autokill would be lame, I mean, that'd give more power to the server admins, who need to be reminded that they are playing Natural-Selection, and not some lame game where both of the teams might get a fair chance against stacked odds.
A marine countdown would be dumb too. Why make it equal? I mean, no marine commander should have to use sensor sweep to find anything, that'd be rediculous. So obviously this timer thing is great, and no one should discuss it anymore!
Moral of the story- the excact same problem exists, excepts it's more annoying as a tension killer. Seriously, comm's too lazy/stupid/ignorant to use sensor sweep at end game need to be rounded up and submented to **obscenity** **obscenity** with a big **obscenity**.
Perhaps instead of this slow degeneration (which you might as well replace with instant-death in some situautions... bah) every alien could become clearly marked on the commanders map? This would still give brain-de- uh, strategically challenged marine teams an advantage for clear up, while retaining much of the last-dash to claim a new hive...
it could be the loss of the hive mind (the confussion! the pain!) that makes them scream, and after running around for a while a marine would alwasy hear the screaming alien..
they should also lose hivesight until a new hive gets up...
also, they could be in such a mental turmoil that their ability to cloak was completely farked...
their only goal at that point should be the feeling that they want a new hive up..
Since marines have ALL the tools to find aliens and clear out the infestation, (that's kinda the point right?), such as: Observation Towers with Motion Tracking and Scanner Sweeps, and Jetpacks; why are the aliens the only ones being punished for hiding, when it is the aliens who are, (or were), the only ones with the ability to actually come back from utter defeat by the skill of 1 player who managed to get a new hive started and save his team. (Presumably this is how the whole mess started in the first place, is it not?
One <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> -> One <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> , and that One <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> build One HIVE creating a whole mess o' trouble for the <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Frankly, I LOVE seeing an alien just sit and camp in a Defense Chamber forrest right now, because it makes the marines actually have to complete thier mission objective to win: Wipe out all the Kahaara!
On the flip side, I HATE having to seach out the lone, uninjured marine with a jetpack, who's crouching in a vent with a shotgun, or HMG, abusing the range, and hitbox advantage the vent affords a 6'2" marine with equipment over an organic life-form MEANT for small spaces, with (supposed) quickness and agility, and close range combat dominance.
Simple solution, people can have their cake and eat it too.... Just on different servers. =)
I really don't like the autokill. Especially with the big ping noise that stops as soon as a hive starts going up, making the marines go rushing to find it. Where's the stealth element gone?
In the majority of games, hiding aliens (or marines) is not a problem, and it is FUN to hunt them down. Autokill is an overly drastic attempt to fix a small amount of lameness on public servers.
I therefore suggest that autokill be removed entirely, and be replaced by a scheme similar to the "automatic win when 1 team leaves", which was added to 1.03.
The new rule should be something like:
IF (hives=0 OR ccs=0) AND (players_in_ready_room >= players_in_game) THEN GAME_OVER
This will allow players to CHOOSE whether to end any lameness when it happens. They could sort of do it already by 1 team all going to ready room, but that's a bit tricky because the teams have to be made imbalanced. This additional rule should sort it out. Maybe the game:ready room ratio could be adjusted slightly, but I'm convinced that the idea is sound, and much better than 1.03's attempted fix.