The Flamethrower simply needs a downside to turn it from the uber-weapon to a specialized DI/hydra removing tool which can be used for self-defense, but it needs team support:
- make the flame collide with objects/walls/players - make it set the user on fire if he's too close to the colliding end of the flame
UWE should really play the entire AvP series (yes, including the latest installment, which features this mechanic) and take a plethora of notes.
<!--quoteo(post=1824901:date=Jan 17 2011, 12:17 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 17 2011, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually I've been playing aliens more than marines, and in this build at least, I find the rifles are way more dangerous then the flamer.
Even as marine the flamer doesn't do very much damage. I'm way better with a rifle, or a shotgun. Honestly I'd prefer the shotgun to the flamer any day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After lag/stutter, ###### fps on my 8800gt and 70 degree cone of fire, I prefer buying a flamer. The laggy unoptimized game works in the flamer's favor atm., i played a rockdown game earlier, starting out with 0-5 k/d ratio as a skulk, then went to 50/7 because I went fade with backup crags and the other team lacked flamers and more than 1 sentry
The way i see it is that the flamethrower should be a tool for certain situations while having clear downsides, be it player or team based.. The flamethrower should not be the weapon of choice. The game is still a shooter and the flamethrower is not a gun.
<!--quoteo(post=1824930:date=Jan 17 2011, 07:01 AM:name=sypro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sypro @ Jan 17 2011, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way i see it is that the flamethrower should be a tool for certain situations while having clear downsides, be it player or team based.. The flamethrower should not be the weapon of choice. The game is still a shooter and the flamethrower is not a gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think your creating an artificial category here, flamethrowers are perfectly legitimate weapons for a shooter. There is nothing wrong with the flamethrower as a weapon of choice in some situations. The problem is that currently the flamethrower is the weapon of choice for every situation.
Although traditionally flamethrowers have issues with range, this is less of a problem in NS2. Most battles are fought in tight quarters against melee opponents, long range battles generally favour the pistol over the LMG. The mid-range band where the LMG is superior is quite small (if it exists at all). The problem with reducing walk speed while carrying the flamethrower is how it would interact with heavy armour (if at all). It might make a good interim weakness. Personally I would favour increasing the reload time over adjusting movement speed. There is potential for a skill counter for the flamethrower. If you know the rough location of the marine from the fact that the flame is on you (might need some way to judge the angle of the flame), then you might be able work out how to move while blinded. This could be helped along by improving the amount of feedback the blindness effect gives (increased/decreased blindness depending on distance to marine for instance).
The only reason I don't like the flamethrower is how it looks when you rotate. It feels that the flames are attached to the gun...so when you turn..the fire turns too? (talking about the fire already spit out and in the air) Really breaks the realism for me there.
Flames should stay in their spot once it exits the gun.
I think the best flamethrower I've ever seen in a game is Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (the original free one in a world war 2 setting).
Granted this video is a modded server where the flamethrower let's you fly, but you can see just how smooth the fire is. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7H65SIyOfA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7H65SIyOfA</a>
To be honest, I think there's an inherent problem with a flamethrower. It either has to be frustrating as hell to the aliens because it's good and takes little to no skill, or it has to be worthless. IMO, it is and will always be anti-fun to the aliens and should not be in the game.
Maybe, maybe, maybe it could be tweaked so that it isn't horrid. But it just isn't fun...
My problem: - I don't like how marines with FT's (Flamethrowers) can just run around the map buck wild and bring about chaos. - I don't think it's right that if I back out and run away from FT in time to make it back to hive or crag, I will still burn to death in an alien "safe zone"
My suggestions: - Reduce movement speed a bit when equipped with a FT and then some more then when firing a FT. - Also increase time of after burn and decrease damage per tick (goes for building and lifeforms). Then give aliens a change to heal or put out flames.
I think the right dynamic of the flamethrower should be a sort of slow moving death when a good alien team should have time to communicate it's location and counter. With guerrilla tactics like Lerk range and other aliens' melee poking in and out, running back to heal zone and the coming back to FT. Ideally there's benefit to marines moving in squads with mixed weapons rather than all flamethrowers. But a squad with a flamethrower become much more powerful but needs to move a bit slower clearing the map.
Currently it works as a super weapon with marines running around the map ALL equipment with FT's wildly burning everything and winning quickly.
Also, I think Price (the OP) doesn't know who Cory is and how to setup a proper poll.
<!--quoteo(post=1824925:date=Jan 17 2011, 01:34 AM:name=mokkat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mokkat @ Jan 17 2011, 01:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After lag/stutter, ###### fps on my 8800gt and 70 degree cone of fire, I prefer buying a flamer. The laggy unoptimized game works in the flamer's favor atm., i played a rockdown game earlier, starting out with 0-5 k/d ratio as a skulk, then went to 50/7 because I went fade with backup crags and the other team lacked flamers and more than 1 sentry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played a game with lag against a guy with a flamer. We spent about 3 minutes trying to hit each other, me as fade, him as flamethrower, neither of us actually managed to get any hits that registered. Fighting against a rifle guy however I died quite quickly.
Lag affects flamethrower just as badly as any other gun in close range, and its poor damage works against it at longer range.
<!--quoteo(post=1824930:date=Jan 17 2011, 02:01 AM:name=sypro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sypro @ Jan 17 2011, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way i see it is that the flamethrower should be a tool for certain situations while having clear downsides, be it player or team based.. The flamethrower should not be the weapon of choice. The game is still a shooter and the flamethrower is not a gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adeptus Sororiatas would disagree.
Then they would set you on fire for being a heretic.
<!--quoteo(post=1825024:date=Jan 18 2011, 01:24 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Jan 18 2011, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Also increase time of after burn and decrease damage per tick (goes for building and lifeforms). Then give aliens a change to heal or put out flames.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no 'time of after burn', just a chance of going out. And the chance of going out is already very low. They should make it a static time, possibly proportional to lifeform/structure max-health (so it'd burn longer on buildings), rather than a chance. But honestly 10 dps for the burn isn't that high. BurnTime = Entity:MaxHP/20, for example. Skulk would burn for 3.5 seconds, Onos would burn for 35 seconds.
The biggest problem is the death-beam 73 degree cone of fire.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
Flamethrower's particle effects needs some tuning. I died to a flamethrower while defending a hive, and for the next 3 seconds, with the flame in my view, I couldn't even read the chat messages because my whole screen was covered in white flame, let alone see anything else.
<!--quoteo(post=1825320:date=Jan 18 2011, 08:46 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 18 2011, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Team games require reading chat text, no?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you take off those sunglasses, you could probably read the chat text better.
As I said when the idea was first announced: <!--quoteo(post=1731269:date=Oct 7 2009, 03:27 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Oct 7 2009, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just plain hate the idea of a flamethrower in NS.
It's a spam weapon that is sprayed mindlessly and continuously.
Not only that, a flamethrower in an oxygen rich environment like a SPACE SHIP is just a bad idea. It's one thing when you are in a jungle or pacific island, quite another when you are in an urban or enclosed space.
NO FLAMETHROWER!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a terrible idea, takes zero skill to use and is unfun to play against.
But I guess that last two elements are what make is so popular for a large part of the "community".
<!--quoteo(post=1825343:date=Jan 18 2011, 10:39 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Jan 18 2011, 10:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As I said when the idea was first announced:
It's a terrible idea, takes zero skill to use and is unfun to play against.
But I guess that last two elements are what make is so popular for a large part of the "community".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's unbalanced right now. It's "beta". After some tweaks it should be fine. Do you see tons of people complaining about the "Pyro" class in TF2? No, because the class is balanced and in it's final form.
Isn't it also planned for the FT to help clear infestation?
<!--quoteo(post=1825346:date=Jan 18 2011, 08:49 PM:name=Camron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camron @ Jan 18 2011, 08:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it also planned for the FT to help clear infestation?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression from way back before it's grand debut that the intention was just that.
Now, I'm not to clear as to how it will play out in the grand scheme of things but I'm sure it will balance out in the end.
@UWE: Don't put to much energy into balance just yet, It might be better to just back-burner (suspend) it until DI is working so you have a good model to balance with.
i have no problems using flamethrower to fight infestation, but having tier 2 weapon counter everything aliens currently have is serious problem. This weapon should be what welders were, low damage but used only against certain tasks needed in-game. The weapon itself only causes more problem than good, it currently ruins ns2 game play - once marines have it, its all over for aliens.
Fade doesnt care about flamethrower guys - you research fast fades* and build enough RTs armor+dmg upgrades after this and you win almost every game ... (at least at rockdown i rarely lost a game again(if not because of flamethrowers)
True its good against lerk skulks and gorges - but if everybody gestates into fades marines get raped. (or at least have to use a lot more shotguns, making smaller lifeforms usefull again - if they know how to dodge)
A lot ppl in the forums QQ but dont even play the game daily. They played one game, got owned by flamethrowers - usually in a team with lots of newbies that didnt understand the game (they usually go commander or run around as skulk only the whole game) => ragequit, and started to wait for the next patch without havin any real gameplay experience.
I play a few matches daily and dont fear flamethrowers anymore, sometimes im even happy - because marines usually skip shotgun, armor and dmg research until they got flamethrowers making fades even more dangerous against them.
But i dont mind the nerf - i dont use the flamethrower as marine anyway.
* 1 hive + 2 rt, upgrade hive as soon as possible (dont forget to spend the energy on drifters before you do it => hide the drifters / always do this if upgrading a hive - and never upgrade all at the same time) more RT if possible 1whip 1craig => upgrades, upgrade hives, if too much res build another hive, more RT + upgrades etc.
And the most important thing - scout with your drifters(place them at key positions, micro them so they dont get killed) and tell your team where marines are (how many and what weapons if possible), where to defend, where to attack. (so they dont even get the chance to upgrade their command station)
IF you feel funny, distract marines with good drifter micro - so they focus a bit on that while your team eats them from behind.
Edit: And dont fear to go out of your hive and eat some lone marines killing a rt nearby if your team is defending/attacking a keyposition with lots of marines somewhere else.
<!--quoteo(post=1824911:date=Jan 17 2011, 12:57 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Jan 17 2011, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm , so if the poll result doesnt match your opinion that the Flamer should be removed then obviously those who like the Flamer are Marine only players ? Using that same logic then we can safely assume those that want the Flamer removed are only Alien players and disregard thier opinion as well.
Would make this entire thread... pointless.
Cory has answered your concerns, by assuring you that the devs are aware the Flamer is not fine, and that it will fixed after due consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you ever read the first Post? Looks like no...
- Its a poll most people don't did it... - People talk about how glitchy and buggy it is instead of doing the rules of this thread...like you - not every user is in the forums, ingame i talk to a lot of people who don't visit the forums, so this thread don't speaks for every ns2 player... Like everytime i was playing and the marines got the flamethrower, the alienplayers leave and say how op it is...sure its buggy right now. The Point is, the flamethrower is op, how can it be fixed if its burn your butt and you can not do anything? Its a damn Flamethrower... The flamethrower doesn't match to ns. In Nature, flames kill everything and a flamethrower is like a tornado, if its catching you you are mostly dead, you can only run away and hope you will survive. Aliens except lerk are close combat fighter, so they have to get close to a marine, if he got a flamethrower, just one, he can set every alien on fire. Anyway this thread is about the flamethrower itself not "when will they fix it????" There was a very good reason why it wasn't in NS1. I am very sure, if a flamethrower would been in NS1, it would not be that popular or i dislike ns. I mean you could beat every marine in ns1, there is no unfair stuff, skulks could kill a heavy. If you think now in NS2, i am sure, a skulk can only run away if he burns maybe he kill the marine but he will die because of burning. Sure if i would only play marines, i would like the flamethrower <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/style_images/tsa/folder_post_icons/icon2.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Maybe the aliens need a skin upgrade, because flamethrower is made against dynamic infestation?! Or the flames should not be that painfull or burn that long, why not just a very short burntime like 1 second? This can be explained, that the aliens have generate a skin against flames. And it should have a low range like <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIISxhYRYE" target="_blank">the pyro have in TF2</a>
@SN.Wolf But this is what a flamethrower did... They reason why its blind you is the particles have no transparent i guess. The alpha is to bright. <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><b>
Whatever they know what they do, i mean ns1 was very funny and i hope they balance the flamethrower some day.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->or replace it <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->:P<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- The last few days i played ns2, i didnt even saw a single person leave because of flamethrowers. - I already won lots of games against flamethrowers. (some of the greatest and longest games i had, and without ppl exploiting the fade wall problem or stuff like that.)
I dont wanna say that a nerf/balance isnt needed at all but its not autowin for marines.
I saw 156-wolf leave the alien, enter the second com marine, and recycle all. "to teach a lesson" for taking flamethrowler (flame we had but we were losing: S)
maybe if there is a primary com and gets a secondary latter would not have to be able to recycle everything ..
<!--quoteo(post=1825413:date=Jan 19 2011, 02:58 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 19 2011, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825413"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The last few days i played ns2, i didnt even saw a single person leave because of flamethrowers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I already won lots of games against flamethrowers. (some of the greatest and longest games i had, and without ppl exploiting the fade wall problem or stuff like that.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As have I. However, it was very clear that the alien-team was significantly more competent than the marine team in such victories. When it concerns equally balanced skill, the alien's demise is almost certain.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can tell me whatever you want but flamethrower marines are the easiest for fades. You got SO MUCH time to kill the marine its unbelieveable- i dont have exact numbers but it feel like a ft guy would need 1-2 magazines to kill me as a fade.(+ i would need to be too stupid to just blink away if its getting dangerous) How many hits do i need to kill the ft guy? 2. I would go so far,and say that im happy to find marines only having flamethrowers instead of shotguns as a fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And I can rambo fades using a single FT-magazine. What you are doing here is cherry-picking your encounters with flamethrowers (incompetent ones in this case).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont wanna say that a nerf/balance isnt needed at all - but its not near as bad or gamebreaking as ppl say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is.
<!--quoteo(post=1825414:date=Jan 19 2011, 10:11 PM:name=tyrael64)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tyrael64 @ Jan 19 2011, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw 156-wolf leave the alien, enter the second com marine, and recycle all. "to teach a lesson" for taking flamethrowler (flame we had but we were losing: S)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What a ridiculous ######.
Has found an exploit where he is on top of the world and is able to destroy things. It's essentially a NoClip. Not to mention, he was able to switch from Flamethrower to Shotgun MIDFIGHT in Central yesterday on rockdown.
The ###### finally left. Or changed his name. I don't know. But, it was freaking annoying as hell.
Its with Observatorys (you can built em on top of the map at some places) => Distress Beacon => Marines on top of the map.
This Wolf guy is only doing ###### on servers... Switch Team selling bases, Observatory exploit, fade wall exploit, God complex on their own server etc. 156 should kick him, or are you all like that - and support him for the ###### he is doing ALL THE TIME on various servers?
Comments
- make the flame collide with objects/walls/players
- make it set the user on fire if he's too close to the colliding end of the flame
UWE should really play the entire AvP series (yes, including the latest installment, which features this mechanic) and take a plethora of notes.
As all said, it has some issues.
I think if the Serverlag is gone (see build 162) and the melee attachs working correctly the Fade will be a flamer-killer.
Also I like the Idea of being 20% - 25% slower with a flamethrower in backpack or hand. (cuz iz heavy, you know ;) )
Even as marine the flamer doesn't do very much damage. I'm way better with a rifle, or a shotgun. Honestly I'd prefer the shotgun to the flamer any day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After lag/stutter, ###### fps on my 8800gt and 70 degree cone of fire, I prefer buying a flamer. The laggy unoptimized game works in the flamer's favor atm., i played a rockdown game earlier, starting out with 0-5 k/d ratio as a skulk, then went to 50/7 because I went fade with backup crags and the other team lacked flamers and more than 1 sentry
I think your creating an artificial category here, flamethrowers are perfectly legitimate weapons for a shooter. There is nothing wrong with the flamethrower as a weapon of choice in some situations. The problem is that currently the flamethrower is the weapon of choice for every situation.
Although traditionally flamethrowers have issues with range, this is less of a problem in NS2. Most battles are fought in tight quarters against melee opponents, long range battles generally favour the pistol over the LMG. The mid-range band where the LMG is superior is quite small (if it exists at all).
The problem with reducing walk speed while carrying the flamethrower is how it would interact with heavy armour (if at all). It might make a good interim weakness. Personally I would favour increasing the reload time over adjusting movement speed. There is potential for a skill counter for the flamethrower. If you know the rough location of the marine from the fact that the flame is on you (might need some way to judge the angle of the flame), then you might be able work out how to move while blinded. This could be helped along by improving the amount of feedback the blindness effect gives (increased/decreased blindness depending on distance to marine for instance).
Flames should stay in their spot once it exits the gun.
I think the best flamethrower I've ever seen in a game is Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (the original free one in a world war 2 setting).
Granted this video is a modded server where the flamethrower let's you fly, but you can see just how smooth the fire is.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7H65SIyOfA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7H65SIyOfA</a>
Maybe, maybe, maybe it could be tweaked so that it isn't horrid. But it just isn't fun...
My problem:
- I don't like how marines with FT's (Flamethrowers) can just run around the map buck wild and bring about chaos.
- I don't think it's right that if I back out and run away from FT in time to make it back to hive or crag, I will still burn to death in an alien "safe zone"
My suggestions:
- Reduce movement speed a bit when equipped with a FT and then some more then when firing a FT.
- Also increase time of after burn and decrease damage per tick (goes for building and lifeforms). Then give aliens a change to heal or put out flames.
I think the right dynamic of the flamethrower should be a sort of slow moving death when a good alien team should have time to communicate it's location and counter. With guerrilla tactics like Lerk range and other aliens' melee poking in and out, running back to heal zone and the coming back to FT. Ideally there's benefit to marines moving in squads with mixed weapons rather than all flamethrowers. But a squad with a flamethrower become much more powerful but needs to move a bit slower clearing the map.
Currently it works as a super weapon with marines running around the map ALL equipment with FT's wildly burning everything and winning quickly.
Also, I think Price (the OP) doesn't know who Cory is and how to setup a proper poll.
I played a game with lag against a guy with a flamer. We spent about 3 minutes trying to hit each other, me as fade, him as flamethrower, neither of us actually managed to get any hits that registered. Fighting against a rifle guy however I died quite quickly.
Lag affects flamethrower just as badly as any other gun in close range, and its poor damage works against it at longer range.
<!--quoteo(post=1824930:date=Jan 17 2011, 02:01 AM:name=sypro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sypro @ Jan 17 2011, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way i see it is that the flamethrower should be a tool for certain situations while having clear downsides, be it player or team based.. The flamethrower should not be the weapon of choice. The game is still a shooter and the flamethrower is not a gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adeptus Sororiatas would disagree.
Then they would set you on fire for being a heretic.
There is no 'time of after burn', just a chance of going out. And the chance of going out is already very low. They should make it a static time, possibly proportional to lifeform/structure max-health (so it'd burn longer on buildings), rather than a chance. But honestly 10 dps for the burn isn't that high. BurnTime = Entity:MaxHP/20, for example. Skulk would burn for 3.5 seconds, Onos would burn for 35 seconds.
The biggest problem is the death-beam 73 degree cone of fire.
If you take off those sunglasses, you could probably read the chat text better.
Thank god for that :D bring on 162!
<img src="http://diehardgamefan.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/squirtle1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1731269:date=Oct 7 2009, 03:27 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Oct 7 2009, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just plain hate the idea of a flamethrower in NS.
It's a spam weapon that is sprayed mindlessly and continuously.
Not only that, a flamethrower in an oxygen rich environment like a SPACE SHIP is just a bad idea. It's one thing when you are in a jungle or pacific island, quite another when you are in an urban or enclosed space.
NO FLAMETHROWER!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a terrible idea, takes zero skill to use and is unfun to play against.
But I guess that last two elements are what make is so popular for a large part of the "community".
It's a terrible idea, takes zero skill to use and is unfun to play against.
But I guess that last two elements are what make is so popular for a large part of the "community".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's unbalanced right now. It's "beta". After some tweaks it should be fine. Do you see tons of people complaining about the "Pyro" class in TF2? No, because the class is balanced and in it's final form.
Isn't it also planned for the FT to help clear infestation?
I was under the impression from way back before it's grand debut that the intention was just that.
Now, I'm not to clear as to how it will play out in the grand scheme of things but I'm sure it will balance out in the end.
@UWE: Don't put to much energy into balance just yet, It might be better to just back-burner (suspend) it until DI is working so you have a good model to balance with.
True its good against lerk skulks and gorges - but if everybody gestates into fades marines get raped. (or at least have to use a lot more shotguns, making smaller lifeforms usefull again - if they know how to dodge)
A lot ppl in the forums QQ but dont even play the game daily. They played one game, got owned by flamethrowers - usually in a team with lots of newbies that didnt understand the game (they usually go commander or run around as skulk only the whole game) => ragequit, and started to wait for the next patch without havin any real gameplay experience.
I play a few matches daily and dont fear flamethrowers anymore, sometimes im even happy - because marines usually skip shotgun, armor and dmg research until they got flamethrowers making fades even more dangerous against them.
But i dont mind the nerf - i dont use the flamethrower as marine anyway.
* 1 hive + 2 rt, upgrade hive as soon as possible (dont forget to spend the energy on drifters before you do it => hide the drifters / always do this if upgrading a hive - and never upgrade all at the same time) more RT if possible 1whip 1craig => upgrades, upgrade hives, if too much res build another hive, more RT + upgrades etc.
And the most important thing - scout with your drifters(place them at key positions, micro them so they dont get killed) and tell your team where marines are (how many and what weapons if possible), where to defend, where to attack. (so they dont even get the chance to upgrade their command station)
IF you feel funny, distract marines with good drifter micro - so they focus a bit on that while your team eats them from behind.
Edit: And dont fear to go out of your hive and eat some lone marines killing a rt nearby if your team is defending/attacking a keyposition with lots of marines somewhere else.
We shall hold for the next "weekly" patch before I comment myself into a retraction.
Using that same logic then we can safely assume those that want the Flamer removed are only Alien players and disregard thier opinion as well.
Would make this entire thread... pointless.
Cory has answered your concerns, by assuring you that the devs are aware the Flamer is not fine, and that it will fixed after due consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you ever read the first Post? Looks like no...
- Its a poll most people don't did it...
- People talk about how glitchy and buggy it is instead of doing the rules of this thread...like you
- not every user is in the forums, ingame i talk to a lot of people who don't visit the forums, so this thread don't speaks for every ns2 player...
Like everytime i was playing and the marines got the flamethrower, the alienplayers leave and say how op it is...sure its buggy right now.
The Point is, the flamethrower is op, how can it be fixed if its burn your butt and you can not do anything?
Its a damn Flamethrower...
The flamethrower doesn't match to ns.
In Nature, flames kill everything and a flamethrower is like a tornado, if its catching you you are mostly dead, you can only run away and hope you will survive.
Aliens except lerk are close combat fighter, so they have to get close to a marine, if he got a flamethrower, just one, he can set every alien on fire.
Anyway this thread is about the flamethrower itself not "when will they fix it????"
There was a very good reason why it wasn't in NS1.
I am very sure, if a flamethrower would been in NS1, it would not be that popular or i dislike ns.
I mean you could beat every marine in ns1, there is no unfair stuff, skulks could kill a heavy.
If you think now in NS2, i am sure, a skulk can only run away if he burns maybe he kill the marine but he will die because of burning.
Sure if i would only play marines, i would like the flamethrower <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/style_images/tsa/folder_post_icons/icon2.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Maybe the aliens need a skin upgrade, because flamethrower is made against dynamic infestation?!
Or the flames should not be that painfull or burn that long, why not just a very short burntime like 1 second?
This can be explained, that the aliens have generate a skin against flames.
And it should have a low range like <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIISxhYRYE" target="_blank">the pyro have in TF2</a>
@SN.Wolf
But this is what a flamethrower did...
They reason why its blind you is the particles have no transparent i guess.
The alpha is to bright.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><b>
Whatever they know what they do, i mean ns1 was very funny and i hope they balance the flamethrower some day.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->or replace it <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->:P<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- I already won lots of games against flamethrowers. (some of the greatest and longest games i had, and without ppl exploiting the fade wall problem or stuff like that.)
I dont wanna say that a nerf/balance isnt needed at all but its not autowin for marines.
"to teach a lesson" for taking flamethrowler (flame we had but we were losing: S)
maybe if there is a primary com and gets a secondary latter would not have to be able to recycle everything ..
translated by google Oo
I beg to differ.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I already won lots of games against flamethrowers. (some of the greatest and longest games i had, and without ppl exploiting the fade wall problem or stuff like that.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As have I. However, it was very clear that the alien-team was significantly more competent than the marine team in such victories. When it concerns equally balanced skill, the alien's demise is almost certain.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can tell me whatever you want but flamethrower marines are the easiest for fades. You got SO MUCH time to kill the marine its unbelieveable- i dont have exact numbers but it feel like a ft guy would need 1-2 magazines to kill me as a fade.(+ i would need to be too stupid to just blink away if its getting dangerous) How many hits do i need to kill the ft guy? 2. I would go so far,and say that im happy to find marines only having flamethrowers instead of shotguns as a fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I can rambo fades using a single FT-magazine. What you are doing here is cherry-picking your encounters with flamethrowers (incompetent ones in this case).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont wanna say that a nerf/balance isnt needed at all - but its not near as bad or gamebreaking as ppl say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is.
"to teach a lesson" for taking flamethrowler (flame we had but we were losing: S)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a ridiculous ######.
156.Wolf
Has found an exploit where he is on top of the world and is able to destroy things. It's essentially a NoClip. Not to mention, he was able to switch from Flamethrower to Shotgun MIDFIGHT in Central yesterday on rockdown.
The ###### finally left. Or changed his name. I don't know. But, it was freaking annoying as hell.
This Wolf guy is only doing ###### on servers... Switch Team selling bases, Observatory exploit, fade wall exploit, God complex on their own server etc.
156 should kick him, or are you all like that - and support him for the ###### he is doing ALL THE TIME on various servers?