AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1824405:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:06 PM:name=Fall0ut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fall0ut @ Jan 14 2011, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the heck was wrong with leap in NS1?
For that matter, why even keep calling this NS? I spent years of my life refining my NS skills. Instead of just making the same, amazing game better.... you have basically created an entirely different game.
:(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If i remember correctly leap was tier 2 in NS1. In NS2 to get the NS1 leap you need to research it. As a bonus you get a mini leap from the start. So a part from bugs there might be, you get more leap in NS2 than you had in NS1
<!--quoteo(post=1824411:date=Jan 15 2011, 05:50 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 15 2011, 05:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If that's the intended use then you should change mini-leap so that you have to hold the button to charge it and then release to leap, and you move very slowly while charging. Running leap removes the charge time.
That way you can tell the difference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is also a good idea. You'd just have to make sure they charge a <u>minimum</u> amount, so they can't just tap MOUSE2 (and not lose the speed) and leap.
<!--quoteo(post=1824657:date=Jan 15 2011, 10:48 PM:name=Skiddywinks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skiddywinks @ Jan 15 2011, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can't leap while jumping? DUH. What are you on, luns?
That would make no sense. What the hell would you leap off while in mid air? It isn't double jump!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skulk leaps off <b>bacteria</b>.
The lore only says that skulks are capable of leaps of stunning height and length. I think the implication is that you can leap, and then extend the leap with another mid-air to simulate the effect of putting more effort into the original leap; problem is just nothing is stopping you from leaping in a different direction. Of course, you could already curve around corners like a homing missile out of a cartoon, so eh.
I generally just use leap without the upgrade. Just look in the general direcion of a marine and right click, leaped right near him or on him. Theres a bit of lag when it happens but all its for is to throw him off his aim to get that precious bite before i die :p U have to be pretty close to the rine when u do it tho, other wise it just fails. No really point of upping to running leap cause it doesnt work.
Yes, mini-leap is basically worthless. Yes, it is probably a good way to jump a marine from a good hiding spot when you're standing still, but I haven't come across a situation where it's been helpful yet. I think this has to do with the fact that currently, I don't really hide on walls as a skulk. [rant] The wall-walking currently doesn't allow you to get into those good hiding spots, you just end up falling. We need to be able to stick to walls. [/rant]
Running leap, on the other hand, is absolutely necessary upgrade for skulking. It's very, very powerful for getting into and out of combat. Once I figured out how to obtain it (It has to be researched AND purchased by the player) I can't seem to use it enough.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
I understand that it is a design decision for basic Leap to only work while not moving. But <b>Leap is simply not generating enough of force.</b> The skulk should be able to leap off walls and ceilings and ravage marines, rather than just alerting them of its presence, and fall limply to the ground.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1825313:date=Jan 19 2011, 01:07 PM:name=Kuriin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kuriin @ Jan 19 2011, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kind of assumed Running Leap would be a leap attack. =\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was initially under the impression that Leap would auto Bite when in contact with a marine. I guess the devs thought it would make skulking too easy. Oh well...
<!--quoteo(post=1824039:date=Jan 13 2011, 12:23 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jan 13 2011, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mini leap is not supposed to work while moving, Charlie is going to work on stopping the FX while moving. It is ment for jumping up onto walls but you have to stop and jump.
Running Leap first has to be researched by the Alien Commander, then you have to buy the ability in the evolve menu (wich will get a revamp when its redone in LUA as its flash atm)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure if you even still check this thread, but in case you do, are there any console commands to buy this ability? I don't remember seeing it as a purchasable item on the evolve menu.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1825450:date=Jan 19 2011, 07:12 PM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Jan 19 2011, 07:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if you even still check this thread, but in case you do, are there any console commands to buy this ability? I don't remember seeing it as a purchasable item on the evolve menu.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's on the Skulks evolve menu, the tiny squares underneath the class picture
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
You can research it on a whip, make sure you do this before you upgrade it to a matured whip (bug in there, which removes the upgrade options from the matured whip, same goes the the crag vs matured crag)
<!--quoteo(post=1824030:date=Jan 13 2011, 05:54 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 13 2011, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you purchase the upgrade?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This explains why its not working after my team got the upgrade... These icons are hard to see, they are so tiny. But ok i guess the upgrades are not done. Anyway they should blink or get a light-whatever-effect around the icons if they can purchased in the beta.
Can anyone explain me, why the... this upgrade is comming with research a whip? I don't know but a whip don't stand for leap or skulk in my mind.
Which upgrades are usable in the beta for the aliens?
Whip = Offinsive = Offensive Upgrades - (Carries Leap for now) Crag = Defensive = Defensive upgrades Shade = Covert = Special Covert Unlocks Shift = Movement = Enhanced movement upgrades (Leap Research MAY move to this chamber?)
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I think its working as designed (non-running leap only works when your stationary), but it definitely has a broken feel to it right now when you try and use it while moving.
The idea around the standing leap was to allow Skulks to use leap to get to high spaces jump up to catwalks without also getting the uber-attack value that the regular leap allows. Skulks with a leap that throttles you forward are much more powerful and are way too good for the a beginning skulk. So we tried this idea to reduce the velocity when you're moving. It does feel weird and a little broken though so I guess we're going to need to adjust it.
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
On a related note btw, the icons and the mandatory research on the whip need a MUCH better visibility. Something along the lines of the hive mind saying "new trait available" alongside an on HUD blinking icon. Similar to NS :)
And perhaps on the evolve menu, add something like
Skulk (new trait available) or at least something blinking somewhere :D
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1825575:date=Jan 19 2011, 09:29 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jan 19 2011, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea around the standing leap was to allow Skulks to use leap to get to high spaces jump up to catwalks without also getting the uber-attack value that the regular leap allows. Skulks with a leap that throttles you forward are much more powerful and are way too good for the a beginning skulk. So we tried this idea to reduce the velocity when you're moving. It does feel weird and a little broken though so I guess we're going to need to adjust it.
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's a good idea (like NS1 I think? Or was it you just needed lvl2 hives?).
It's confusing because players will think/wonder why their leap sucks versus someone elses.
Perhaps leap can just appear when you have a second hive like NS1? Although that starts to get confusing.
<!--quoteo(post=1825575:date=Jan 20 2011, 03:29 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jan 20 2011, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Charlie, Please consider the charge mechanic suggested in this thread and elsewhere. Movement is slowed or stopped while charging, leap distance is determined by the progress of the charge bar.
Tier 1: charging stops movement completely, takes a while to get to full charge (useful for getting to high spaces but not for combat) Tier 2: charging slows movement, getting a full charge takes less time (more useful for surprise attacks) Tier 3: charging doesn't slow movement at all, full charge is almost instantaneous (useful attack for full on combat)
<!--quoteo(post=1825588:date=Jan 20 2011, 04:10 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jan 20 2011, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they should make it so you have to "charge up" the leap - hold mouse2 down until all of your adrenaline is used, and then let go of mouse2 to leap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1824411:date=Jan 14 2011, 10:50 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 14 2011, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If that's the intended use then you should change mini-leap so that you have to hold the button to charge it and then release to leap, and you move very slowly while charging. Running leap removes the charge time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1825575:date=Jan 19 2011, 09:29 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jan 19 2011, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea around the standing leap was to allow Skulks to use leap to get to high spaces jump up to catwalks without also getting the uber-attack value that the regular leap allows. Skulks with a leap that throttles you forward are much more powerful and are way too good for the a beginning skulk. So we tried this idea to reduce the velocity when you're moving. It does feel weird and a little broken though so I guess we're going to need to adjust it.
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you guys are imagining a use case that just doesn't happen in real games. If a skulk wants to get up to a catwalk, he wallclimbs. If I could wallclimb while running full speed without falling off the wall so easily(hint hint) I would never ever want to stand still for a leap. IMO if that's the route you want to go, disable Leap until it's upgraded and make wallclimbing better.
<!--quoteo(post=1825575:date=Jan 20 2011, 03:29 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jan 20 2011, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea around the standing leap was to allow Skulks to use leap to get to high spaces jump up to catwalks without also getting the uber-attack value that the regular leap allows. Skulks with a leap that throttles you forward are much more powerful and are way too good for the a beginning skulk. So we tried this idea to reduce the velocity when you're moving. It does feel weird and a little broken though so I guess we're going to need to adjust it.
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just make what ns1 had, bring back old leap but only upgradeable.
what made leap so good in ns1, it worked in every type of movement, that's is what is lacking. Don't gimp this ability, at least make it how was - through an upgrade.
also, skulk has weak climbing, falls too easily from walls.
Wait, so skulks have to buy the Running Leap ability every life after it's been researched? That's ridiculous! No wonder I could never get leap to work - I didn't have the slightest clue any of those bonuses on the evolve screen were even working yet.
Please, after it's researched, just give the skulks their Leap. :(
Comments
For that matter, why even keep calling this NS? I spent years of my life refining my NS skills. Instead of just making the same, amazing game better.... you have basically created an entirely different game.
:(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If i remember correctly leap was tier 2 in NS1. In NS2 to get the NS1 leap you need to research it. As a bonus you get a mini leap from the start. So a part from bugs there might be, you get more leap in NS2 than you had in NS1
That way you can tell the difference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is also a good idea. You'd just have to make sure they charge a <u>minimum</u> amount, so they can't just tap MOUSE2 (and not lose the speed) and leap.
That would make no sense. What the hell would you leap off while in mid air? It isn't double jump!
That would make no sense. What the hell would you leap off while in mid air? It isn't double jump!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk leaps off <b>bacteria</b>.
The lore might say that, but there is no way bacteria could provide enough force for a skulk to leap from.
Of course, you could already curve around corners like a homing missile out of a cartoon, so eh.
Just look in the general direcion of a marine and right click, leaped right near him or on him.
Theres a bit of lag when it happens but all its for is to throw him off his aim to get that precious bite before i die :p
U have to be pretty close to the rine when u do it tho, other wise it just fails.
No really point of upping to running leap cause it doesnt work.
Running leap, on the other hand, is absolutely necessary upgrade for skulking. It's very, very powerful for getting into and out of combat. Once I figured out how to obtain it (It has to be researched AND purchased by the player) I can't seem to use it enough.
The skulk should be able to leap off walls and ceilings and ravage marines, rather than just alerting them of its presence, and fall limply to the ground.
Yeah I was initially under the impression that Leap would auto Bite when in contact with a marine. I guess the devs thought it would make skulking too easy. Oh well...
Running Leap first has to be researched by the Alien Commander, then you have to buy the ability in the evolve menu (wich will get a revamp when its redone in LUA as its flash atm)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure if you even still check this thread, but in case you do, are there any console commands to buy this ability? I don't remember seeing it as a purchasable item on the evolve menu.
It's on the Skulks evolve menu, the tiny squares underneath the class picture
This explains why its not working after my team got the upgrade...
These icons are hard to see, they are so tiny.
But ok i guess the upgrades are not done.
Anyway they should blink or get a light-whatever-effect around the icons if they can purchased in the beta.
Can anyone explain me, why the... this upgrade is comming with research a whip?
I don't know but a whip don't stand for leap or skulk in my mind.
Which upgrades are usable in the beta for the aliens?
Crag = Defensive = Defensive upgrades
Shade = Covert = Special Covert Unlocks
Shift = Movement = Enhanced movement upgrades (Leap Research MAY move to this chamber?)
EDIT:
Damn, ninjad by 5 minutes :P
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.
And perhaps on the evolve menu, add something like
Skulk (new trait available) or at least something blinking somewhere :D
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that's a good idea (like NS1 I think? Or was it you just needed lvl2 hives?).
It's confusing because players will think/wonder why their leap sucks versus someone elses.
Perhaps leap can just appear when you have a second hive like NS1? Although that starts to get confusing.
Charlie,
Please consider the charge mechanic suggested in this thread and elsewhere. Movement is slowed or stopped while charging, leap distance is determined by the progress of the charge bar.
Tier 1: charging stops movement completely, takes a while to get to full charge (useful for getting to high spaces but not for combat)
Tier 2: charging slows movement, getting a full charge takes less time (more useful for surprise attacks)
Tier 3: charging doesn't slow movement at all, full charge is almost instantaneous (useful attack for full on combat)
<!--quoteo(post=1825588:date=Jan 20 2011, 04:10 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jan 20 2011, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they should make it so you have to "charge up" the leap - hold mouse2 down until all of your adrenaline is used, and then let go of mouse2 to leap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824411:date=Jan 14 2011, 10:50 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 14 2011, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If that's the intended use then you should change mini-leap so that you have to hold the button to charge it and then release to leap, and you move very slowly while charging. Running leap removes the charge time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you guys are imagining a use case that just doesn't happen in real games. If a skulk wants to get up to a catwalk, he wallclimbs. If I could wallclimb while running full speed without falling off the wall so easily(hint hint) I would never ever want to stand still for a leap. IMO if that's the route you want to go, disable Leap until it's upgraded and make wallclimbing better.
I'm thinking about disabling the leap when you're moving until you buy the full leap (tier 2). At that point, you'll see that you can use it all the time. This might make it more clear what's happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just make what ns1 had, bring back old leap but only upgradeable.
what made leap so good in ns1, it worked in every type of movement, that's is what is lacking. Don't gimp this ability, at least make it how was - through an upgrade.
also, skulk has weak climbing, falls too easily from walls.
Please, after it's researched, just give the skulks their Leap. :(