The Sentry Guide
Runteh
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Reversed!</div>Just something I knocked up quickly today, some basic stuff in there though maybe some people will learn something.
Would be great if NS2HD could do a video on it.
<img src="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7702/sentrycompress.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
High quality here: <a href="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/395/sentrycompress2.jpg" target="_blank">http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/395/sentrycompress2.jpg</a>
Would be great if NS2HD could do a video on it.
<img src="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7702/sentrycompress.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
High quality here: <a href="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/395/sentrycompress2.jpg" target="_blank">http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/395/sentrycompress2.jpg</a>
Comments
Thanks.
The sentry needs to indicate the direction it is pointing in.
i re-aim them multiple times because I am not sure it took.
The Guide is great.
But atm the commander has to save up 40 carbon to build it, which is only possible in the endgame - or if the aliens are asleep.
The Guide is great.
But atm the commander has to save up 40 carbon to build it, which is only possible in the endgame - or if the aliens are asleep.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
40 for one or the required double setup? If one, it must be a custom server.
Also, remember that Lerks are the sentries biggest threat - another reason to build them in corners and out of sight.
For the double setup...
I think buying just one turret is more or less a waste of carbon because a skulk can leap or a fade blink easily behind it and destroy it.
(exept if you have that one perfect position .. or use the turret as a support for present troops)
40 for one turret would be a little to expensive, don't you think? ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1825246:date=Jan 18 2011, 03:22 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Jan 18 2011, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sentry needs to indicate the direction it is pointing in.
i re-aim them multiple times because I am not sure it took.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good idea! seconded.
<!--quoteo(post=1825251:date=Jan 18 2011, 03:49 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 18 2011, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40 for one or the required double setup? If one, it must be a custom server.
Also, remember that Lerks are the sentries biggest threat - another reason to build them in corners and out of sight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to disagree. As a lerk, I've tried to take out sentries several times. The way it currently works, lerks do very little damage to sentries. Now, I might be missing some, but even up close it takes quite some time to take one down. Add to that the fact that sentries are fairly hard to hit, even though stationary.
<!--quoteo(post=1825255:date=Jan 18 2011, 04:13 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 18 2011, 04:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I keep yelling at players to use sentries as fire support but no they just run back to base and die horribly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because they don't want to give the kills away to the commander, but do it themselves!
Good idea! seconded.
I have to disagree. As a lerk, I've tried to take out sentries several times. The way it currently works, lerks do very little damage to sentries. Now, I might be missing some, but even up close it takes quite some time to take one down. Add to that the fact that sentries are fairly hard to hit, even though stationary.
That's because they don't want to give the kills away to the commander, but do it themselves!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a room is full of sentries and you get in the rafters, Lerks can cause real problems. Also, you can aim at their feet round corners without them firing at you.
It doesn't take that long as Lerk to take down a sentry, remember all other classes (except for Gorge) have to get up and personal.
As for not being able to see the sentries, that is why the orange circles are there :P
If they're low on health they will happily run straight past a trio of sentry guns which are just outside the combat area, and straight into the poorly defended base, followed by a million bloody aliens.
Just run around in circles near the sentries, you're invincible.
<!--quoteo(post=1825274:date=Jan 18 2011, 03:01 PM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Jan 18 2011, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to disagree. As a lerk, I've tried to take out sentries several times. The way it currently works, lerks do very little damage to sentries. Now, I might be missing some, but even up close it takes quite some time to take one down. Add to that the fact that sentries are fairly hard to hit, even though stationary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sentries only carve out a 90 degree cone, so in a 3D environment (i.e. the lerk can move vertically) that leaves a large amount of space you can approach a sentry and not be shot. Also, I believe the lerks attack range is larger than the sentries, so in long corridors you can hit sentries without them firing back.
Also, I think any current guide should indicate that sentries in B161 are very cost ineffective. Any one of those pictures would cost at least 40 carbon to build. Here's the total cost if you wanted all of those
4th picture (3 sentries): 60 carbon
5th picture (2 sentries): 40 carbon
6th picture (2 sentries): 40 carbon
7th picture (4 sentries): 80 carbon
8th picture (2 sentries): 40 carbon
9th picture (2 sentries): 40 carbon
Total: 300 carbon
The cost wouldn't be too bad if sentries we're very effective, but they are generally not. As you have shown, you need a minimum of two sentries to get somewhat effective converge in small hallways and generally three to four for effective coverage of a power node. Also, for the sentry layouts shown to work you need to build the sentries together or else you leave yourself vulnerable to attack and the loss of 20-60 carbon.
It's just a shame that sentries now cost carbon.
Ha, you don't have to stick my name on it. Just something more dynamic and interesting in video format!
You can pretty much use that guide to think up solutions to other rooms, there are lots of different ways of doing things.
I didn't include the vents because the image would have become rather complicated, and it was more of a basic 'this is how you should place them' guide, rather than 'this is how Rockdown should be'.
True about the vents. For example, node reserves are hard to cover with just two sentries. Usually I stick them in the top corners of that room, but the complicated geometry, boxes and extractor at the bottom of the room are perfect for keeping aliens in cover. A Lerk can be a real pain for shooting the extractor from the vent in that room, and as there is no good way of clearing it out (unless you have the flame thrower) it is a right annoyance for the Marines.
I suppose you could place a third behind the boxes at the bottom right to cover the rear of the extractor and the power node.
You have identified how careful you have to be with placement though. You have to consider how each life form could cause damage to the defences, and work around that. As well as having them covering each other and your assets.
West is a pain as well, because there is that lovely roof space. Complex room spaces and geometry are always a large problem, such as the Marine start. In fact, I usually have more than three, but that setup is good as a start.
It depends on a lot of things, such as resources and whether the alien team are attacking heavily or holding back. Or whether the team is working together, by actually following your orders.
Some days you play and no one listens (could be an issue with the squad orders - clear communication - GUI that will hopefully be solved in the next patch) and you have to make sure your sentry defence is very strong.
For instance, I have managed to setup the 4 - 2 turret placement in 161 near the bottom of the guide. The team was winning, but not working well enough together to conclude the game so I needed to keep the aliens held back for them.
Usually if you are quite blunt on the mic people start doing what you tell them. Played the other day with a group of guys who were completely new to the game. I capped a 2nd CC early on and gone L2. As they are new, I usually start dropping a few turrets in the base, make sure I have shotguns researched and then work towards flame throwers.
But eventually I got them to work as a team of 4/5 moving round the map via west. 2 with flame throwers for lifeforms, and 2 with shotguns for the hives. Finished the game in less than 10 minutes following that.
Also, with regards to sentries and roof spaces. The Z rotation angle seems lower than X and Y. So they can't shoot aliens above them as well as on ground level.
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1579090/coverage.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1579090/coverage.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I use this setup as well sometimes. You can see it in the image to the right of the title page ;P Though it is not set up as well as yours, just front/rear facing.
So thanks for the guide, it's fantastic :)
One big problem for me is the original spawn point of the IP, that would be better off in front of the Command Center.
Then you could place one top left corner, and 1 to the right at the boxes.
Question for the devs though... are they going to change the Z axis rotation (up/down axis) to be wider? At the moment the sentries struggle to shoot things below themselves. Below is more of an issue than above, because I think that should be saved for Lerks to take advantage of.
Also the sentry tracking still seems off when there are multiple sentries. I will try and get a video to demonstrate at some point.
<img src="http://i4.aijaa.com/b/00003/7403407.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
People can still get through but at that point I just get out of the CC and try to pull them back to the sentries. It does cost a lot though so you can't do it too early.