My impression of B162 is that it appears the server and client aren't really on the same page at all anymore. My position is constantly being corrected by the server, resulting in the infamous 'rubber-banding'. I seem to suffer from it so badly at times, that I will literally levitate in the air, unable to move in any direction. I imagine the very poor hit-registration is related to this also, where the client (you) might think you're landing a hit, but the server just shrugs, shakes its head, and doesn't register a damn thing.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited January 2011
I suspect this is all a by-product of the new Physics / Collision system put in place for B162. Most likely part of the game code is doing things "the old way", and other parts were conducive of the new system. This will probably get ironed out by B164.
- Skulks are faster than sprinting marines - not much but still. - Running Leap is an fast an easy upgrade. - Nothing really changed with skulk biting since 160.
RamblemoeJoin Date: 2010-12-21Member: 75812Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Retired Community Developer
I found it getting hard/impossible to land bites going from 160 -> 161. I only played 2 or 3 games in 161 but playing skulk was a lot easier in 160. And in response to Koruyo above me, (not sure if troll.jpg) leap doesn't even work in this build does it? Also not landing bites on marines is still an issue when they're sprinting in front of you.. I've on several occasions been trying to land a bite on a sprinting marine following them from west to the doorway between marine start and node reserves on rockdown.
Pat (GER)Join Date: 2010-12-13Member: 75646Members
edited January 2011
in 161 you can press jump and leap at the same time while running and the skulk does a running leap without upgrading ..now in 162 it doesnt work anymore =(
and i agree that biting is much more difficult now.. you have to hit the marine much more accurate than before
Did you ever consider that, in B162, this is precisely what Skulk bite is meant to behave like? Of course it was easy before, hit registration was retarded.
<!--quoteo(post=1828613:date=Jan 30 2011, 01:43 PM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Jan 30 2011, 01:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you ever consider that, in B162, this is precisely what Skulk bite is meant to behave like? Of course it was easy before, hit registration was retarded.
Get used to it :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Getting used to rubber-banding servers? Thats surely not helping anyone... sales in particular.
<!--quoteo(post=1828613:date=Jan 30 2011, 12:43 PM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Jan 30 2011, 12:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you ever consider that, in B162, this is precisely what Skulk bite is meant to behave like? Of course it was easy before, hit registration was retarded.
Get used to it :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If combat in NS2 is supposed to be both sides teleporting in circles constantly then I will be very unhappy.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
i don't think he meant that, but more along the lines that before it was too easy for skulks to kill marines. Nobody could argue that teleporing around is intended, and doing so, is, i'm sorry to say, a little trollish
Death DragonJoin Date: 2010-01-11Member: 70072Members
<!--quoteo(post=1828594:date=Jan 30 2011, 12:37 PM:name=Ramblemoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ramblemoe @ Jan 30 2011, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found it getting hard/impossible to land bites going from 160 -> 161. I only played 2 or 3 games in 161 but playing skulk was a lot easier in 160.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I noticed this as well. I don't know what happened in 161 but hitting people as skulk got a lot harder. I guess the game got a bit laggier after that patch for some reason.
I haven't reliably been able to hit anything with anything in any build so far, although the latest build has introduced the inability to move properly on top of that which is consistent at least.
<!--quoteo(post=1828594:date=Jan 30 2011, 10:37 AM:name=Ramblemoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ramblemoe @ Jan 30 2011, 10:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found it getting hard/impossible to land bites going from 160 -> 161. I only played 2 or 3 games in 161 but playing skulk was a lot easier in 160.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could be wrong about the patch number, but right around that time the Skulk bite range was reduced. If you looked at the skulk biting the marine in 3rd person, he could be standing quite far away from the marine and the bites were still connecting. I just can't remember if that change went in in 161 or the patch earlier.
RamblemoeJoin Date: 2010-12-21Member: 75812Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1828659:date=Jan 30 2011, 07:24 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 30 2011, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could be wrong about the patch number, but right around that time the Skulk bite range was reduced. If you looked at the skulk biting the marine in 3rd person, he could be standing quite far away from the marine and the bites were still connecting. I just can't remember if that change went in in 161 or the patch earlier.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting, I think we have our explanation. Bite range is shorter and combined with lags that means it's really hard to be in range of the marine server side when you press attack. :<
I think it was 160, that changed that. Marine Rifle Butt range got 1.5, and skulk bite 1.0...
Dunno the old range was indeed too easy, and the new might be a bit too hard => Lets try in between numbers, or wait how it works out after the server client gets more stable again.
Leap does work, and did work in the past.
Basic leap is only possible if standing, Running Leap (The upgrade) needs to be learned as skulk. Means, after your commander has researched it, an icon in the gestation menu gets unlocked => B => Skulk => Look for the llittle running leap icon => click.... now you can leap.
hitboxs are seriously like 1inch now for skulks, and damage doesn't feel like its registering correctly. range of bite has to be changed as it was. Fighting in the dark now as skulk i'm having most trouble, half the time its hard to see, since aliens do have any form of flashlight as they suppose to.
So darkness for aliens means even worse aim. I just can't understand why they can't just add ns1 flashlight now, it was so amazing but we just have to wait till they add the new one, and I hope its only as good or better then the old one.
as for leap mini-leap damn thing so useless. stopping to leap might as well stand there wait to get shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1828701:date=Jan 30 2011, 07:39 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Jan 30 2011, 07:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->stopping to leap might as well stand there wait to get shot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you're doing it wrong. it's meant for when you sneak onto a ceiling and a marine runs by. right when he's under you, you leap to bite him like in the trailer.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1828707:date=Jan 31 2011, 12:08 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Jan 31 2011, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you're doing it wrong. it's meant for when you sneak onto a ceiling and a marine runs by. right when he's under you, you leap to bite him like in the trailer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, Leap adds (almost) no momentum if you leap off a wall or ceiling. It should have more force.
<!--quoteo(post=1828715:date=Jan 31 2011, 12:30 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 31 2011, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FOV was widened, or the view was given a bit of a fish eye effect it would help to track marines at close quarters.
The skulk feels very awkward in close range, where it should be most effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. The Fade suffers the same problem. Marines have another advantage over Skulks: They can simply jump over Skulks that are on the ground.
^ another few issues I can point out, to add to what been said.
marines can sprint without stopping, or in circles and having our hitboxs the way they are now, my face has to be morphed in the marines body (yes that close) to be able to get a bite into him. if marine sprints in circles or zij-zajs around easily kitting the skulk, and making it much harder to be bitten as well. It would fine, but hitboxs are seriously 1-inch distance if not closer.
fade suffers from something not many care to admit here, gimped blink. since fades can be easily kitted, can't catch moving targets, and end up chasing marines on foot - while marines have unlimited sprint, makes fades slow as hell. fades are nothing more than bulky, clumsy and mini-onos currently. (they do what onos do, chase marines on foot, have high armor, and clumsy as in slow.)
Server-client issues imo. Bite range is 0.8 units now. A marine travels 5 (supposedly 1.8 metres) units per second at max speed. So that would mean the bite range is 0.288m.
<!--quoteo(post=1828715:date=Jan 31 2011, 01:30 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 31 2011, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FOV was widened, or the view was given a bit of a fish eye effect it would help to track marines at close quarters.
The skulk feels very awkward in close range, where it should be most effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I would agree with this for any melee based game, you need it if you're going to be working at impractically close quarters.
I don't know if the skulk range necessarily needs to be increased. We need the servers updating more often first so there's less guesswork on where the marine really is.
I think the fisheye lens would be disorienting to always run around in. It's so hard to keep track of people now because they will literally teleport behind you every time you bite them. Once the update issue is fixed, it'll be a lot better.
<!--quoteo(post=1828538:date=Jan 29 2011, 04:52 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 29 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828538"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I suspect this is all a by-product of the new Physics / Collision system put in place for B162. Most likely part of the game code is doing things "the old way", and other parts were conducive of the new system. This will probably get ironed out by B164.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, once I got the new collision system in and was carefully checking that everything was working, I discovered a problem with the way the Skulk bite was implemented. So I reimplemented the bite (and rifle melee) with a more correct implementation. I recalculated how the original range and other values needed to be adjusted to make it similar, however since the implementation is different it's not a one-to-one mapping. The values may need to be tweaked to regain the balance.
RamblemoeJoin Date: 2010-12-21Member: 75812Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Retired Community Developer
edited January 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1828700:date=Jan 31 2011, 01:30 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 31 2011, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leap does work, and did work in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can not for the life of me leap in this build. Regardless if I have running leap researched (and bought). I'm standing still, and using leap. The animation plays but I don't move even an inch. Same goes for running leap, only plays the animation.
Edit: Just went in game to confirm this in order to avoid looking like a complete fool. And would you look at that leap worked. Which is weird 'cus I strongly remember playing the first 162 games just after the patch and 3 people asked why leap was no longer working. My head is filled with ######.
It works fine for me. The unresearched leap does nothing atm. It plays the animation (and after that my teeth close one moment for some reason.. might be a bug) but I don't gain any momentum while I'm running. But after I baught the running leap it will catapult me a good chunk towards the way I'm currently running.
Some people just forget to evolve the running leap.. I guess thats why they complain that it does not work.
And remember: If you evolve the running leap update once it will stay active even if you die. But if you evolve to an other lifeform you have to reevolve it after you respawn as a skulk.
I noticed that "Investigate Skulk bite effectiveness" has been updated to "Delivered" on the progress tracker. Anyone got any ideas what was found/changed?
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1828918:date=Jan 31 2011, 09:14 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Jan 31 2011, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, once I got the new collision system in and was carefully checking that everything was working, I discovered a problem with the way the Skulk bite was implemented. So I reimplemented the bite (and rifle melee) with a more correct implementation. I recalculated how the original range and other values needed to be adjusted to make it similar, however since the implementation is different it's not a one-to-one mapping. The values may need to be tweaked to regain the balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
- Running Leap is an fast an easy upgrade.
- Nothing really changed with skulk biting since 160.
The Problem is what player said. :)
And in response to Koruyo above me, (not sure if troll.jpg) leap doesn't even work in this build does it?
Also not landing bites on marines is still an issue when they're sprinting in front of you..
I've on several occasions been trying to land a bite on a sprinting marine following them from
west to the doorway between marine start and node reserves on rockdown.
and i agree that biting is much more difficult now.. you have to hit the marine much more accurate than before
Get used to it :)
Get used to it :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Getting used to rubber-banding servers?
Thats surely not helping anyone... sales in particular.
Get used to it :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If combat in NS2 is supposed to be both sides teleporting in circles constantly then I will be very unhappy.
Yeah I noticed this as well.
I don't know what happened in 161 but hitting people as skulk got a lot harder.
I guess the game got a bit laggier after that patch for some reason.
I could be wrong about the patch number, but right around that time the Skulk bite range was reduced. If you looked at the skulk biting the marine in 3rd person, he could be standing quite far away from the marine and the bites were still connecting. I just can't remember if that change went in in 161 or the patch earlier.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting, I think we have our explanation. Bite range is shorter and combined with lags that means it's really hard to be in range of the marine server side when you press attack.
:<
Marine Rifle Butt range got 1.5, and skulk bite 1.0...
Dunno the old range was indeed too easy, and the new might be a bit too hard => Lets try in between numbers, or wait how it works out after the server client gets more stable again.
Leap does work, and did work in the past.
Basic leap is only possible if standing, Running Leap (The upgrade) needs to be learned as skulk. Means, after your commander has researched it, an icon in the gestation menu gets unlocked => B => Skulk => Look for the llittle running leap icon => click.... now you can leap.
Fighting in the dark now as skulk i'm having most trouble, half the time its hard to see, since aliens do have any form of flashlight as they suppose to.
So darkness for aliens means even worse aim. I just can't understand why they can't just add ns1 flashlight now, it was so amazing but we just have to wait till they add the new one, and I hope its only as good or better then the old one.
as for leap mini-leap damn thing so useless. stopping to leap might as well stand there wait to get shot.
you're doing it wrong. it's meant for when you sneak onto a ceiling and a marine runs by. right when he's under you, you leap to bite him like in the trailer.
The skulk feels very awkward in close range, where it should be most effective.
Actually, Leap adds (almost) no momentum if you leap off a wall or ceiling. It should have more force.
<!--quoteo(post=1828715:date=Jan 31 2011, 12:30 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 31 2011, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FOV was widened, or the view was given a bit of a fish eye effect it would help to track marines at close quarters.
The skulk feels very awkward in close range, where it should be most effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. The Fade suffers the same problem. Marines have another advantage over Skulks: They can simply jump over Skulks that are on the ground.
marines can sprint without stopping, or in circles and having our hitboxs the way they are now, my face has to be morphed in the marines body (yes that close) to be able to get a bite into him. if marine sprints in circles or zij-zajs around easily kitting the skulk, and making it much harder to be bitten as well. It would fine, but hitboxs are seriously 1-inch distance if not closer.
fade suffers from something not many care to admit here, gimped blink. since fades can be easily kitted, can't catch moving targets, and end up chasing marines on foot - while marines have unlimited sprint, makes fades slow as hell. fades are nothing more than bulky, clumsy and mini-onos currently. (they do what onos do, chase marines on foot, have high armor, and clumsy as in slow.)
The skulk feels very awkward in close range, where it should be most effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I would agree with this for any melee based game, you need it if you're going to be working at impractically close quarters.
I think the fisheye lens would be disorienting to always run around in. It's so hard to keep track of people now because they will literally teleport behind you every time you bite them. Once the update issue is fixed, it'll be a lot better.
Yes, once I got the new collision system in and was carefully checking that everything was working, I discovered a problem with the way the Skulk bite was implemented. So I reimplemented the bite (and rifle melee) with a more correct implementation. I recalculated how the original range and other values needed to be adjusted to make it similar, however since the implementation is different it's not a one-to-one mapping. The values may need to be tweaked to regain the balance.
I can not for the life of me leap in this build. Regardless if I have running leap researched (and bought).
I'm standing still, and using leap. The animation plays but I don't move even an inch.
Same goes for running leap, only plays the animation.
Edit: Just went in game to confirm this in order to avoid looking like a complete fool.
And would you look at that leap worked. Which is weird 'cus I strongly remember playing the first 162 games
just after the patch and 3 people asked why leap was no longer working.
My head is filled with ######.
The unresearched leap does nothing atm. It plays the animation (and after that my teeth close one moment for some reason.. might be a bug) but I don't gain any momentum while I'm running.
But after I baught the running leap it will catapult me a good chunk towards the way I'm currently running.
Some people just forget to evolve the running leap.. I guess thats why they complain that it does not work.
And remember: If you evolve the running leap update once it will stay active even if you die.
But if you evolve to an other lifeform you have to reevolve it after you respawn as a skulk.