map Design ist not realistic and scary enough

RTV · February 2011

The Maps of Natural Selection 2 are ok but far away from scary, horror and realism.
Realism isn't important in a game but it makes the game way more "cool" scary and on.
For Example, there <a href="http://h-6.abload.de/img/deadspace22011-02-041597cc.png" target="_blank">no toilets (dead space 2 Example)</a>, where did the Marines go for little "Presents"?
If you think toilets are pointless because one way in and one way out, wrong, there a lot of ways, for example break the wall to the other side and lo and behold another entry/exit.
Or where did the Marines eat and? Why there is no nice cafeteria or something.
I saw there are automats but i would like to see a cafeteria or something, gives the game and map a very nice look.
Did people not go on toilet in NS2?
Or some kind of <a href="http://h-6.abload.de/img/deadspace22011-02-041447xb.png" target="_blank">sleep rooms</a>
<a href="http://www.abload.de/img/deadspace22011-02-0418bgd2.png" target="_blank">Another example</a>
You know its nothing very bad but i think NS2 maps are to sterile or plastic.
Where is the "humans are here" feeling?
If you need modeler for the environment, ask the community for Themes, the ns community is very creative and talented.
NS2 is in the beta phase, we all know but in my humbly mind the map theme is boring.
And dead Space 2 is a game where you walk from a to b, diffrent to ns2 gameplay but you know what i will tell you.

Examples of Dead space 2, i hope its a inspiration for you guys.

<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8537358&postcount=2697" target="_blank">Thread 1</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8537557&postcount=2698" target="_blank">Thread 2</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8541068&postcount=2723" target="_blank">Thread 3</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8541439&postcount=2728" target="_blank">Thread 4</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8541751&postcount=2729" target="_blank">Thread 5</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8543579&postcount=2733" target="_blank">Thread 6</a>
<a href="http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8539653&postcount=2721" target="_blank">Thread 7</a>

Mahmutti · February 2011

Meh. I honestly like NS2's style way more than Dead Space's. Dead Space is more like "everything is all ###### up and chaotic and stuff" while NS2 is like "okay guys, the aliens just got here, let's clean up the place and go home".

Also, nanites.

uffo · February 2011

There are a few locked doors, maybe they are behind them? And I believe that the toilet & sleeping quarters prop set will come along the rest of the official maps are released

TychoCelchuuu · February 2011

I think I can say with a fair degree of certainty that Natural Selection 2 isn't going to get better if the devs add toilets.

Asraniel · February 2011

wow.. how much i don't like the deathspace 2 screenshots compared to NS2 is impressive

L34D · February 2011

i really like the NS2-Mapping style right now, but i have some suggestions to make the atmosphere in NS2 more intensive.

- I think there should be rarely some blood or ammo(bullets) decals.

- Maybe more steam or other effects make the maps more scary. Right now i saw only one steam "prop". (on tram near repair room) I hope there will be more stuff like that maybe more broken pipes or something. So that you have a restricted view on some parts on the map.

- Hope DI makes more atmosphere. :)

- Another thing is sounds. Sounds make games more alive/interesting. There a great moments like "wait guys i heard something, i will look after it." Or as an alien "guys i heard a marine squad, please hide in the room".... marine squad is in the room ...."ok wait for my order to attack the squad." (I hope you know what i mean :D)

ASnogarD · February 2011

Bit early to say the environments are sterile... the DI is missing, a few chambers is missing ( plus issues with Hydra's means they are limited to hotspot areas ).
I think the enviroments will fill up dynamically when proper games are possible, especially with larger numbers on the servers and if its technically feasable, enviromental lighting.

Dead Space 2 environments are great, but wouldnt work in NS 2 ...all that clutter would merely waste combat space ( annoys me no end getting killed in a MP game because I backed into a chair or cabinet , or some small furniture prop ).
DS 2 is made for the SP first and foremost, the MP is a after thought ( and I heard, but havent tried it , it is sub par ... apparently some devs thought giving humans ranged weapons and a bullet time style ability versus mostly weak and melee majority necro's wasnt too op :P )

Zek · February 2011

First off the marines don't live in these places, they're there on missions to clean up alien infestations. And the playable map isn't necessarily the entire facility. You can imagine a bathroom or mess hall right behind that prop door on the edge of the map if you want.

dux · February 2011

You haven't seen all the maps yet, they are all part of one big facility.

Insane · February 2011

Tram isn't the only location that will be in NS2. When more maps are released you'll see a greater variety of rooms and environments. We're working on a "Docking Port" map that will have a number of places similar to what you're talking about.

Plus, as we continue to work on the NS2, more kinds of atmospheric effect are added. We don't have many of them in yet, although we were working on some environmental effects this week.

EDIT: Doh, beaten.

cron · February 2011

How many NS2 maps have you seen so far?
I have only seen one official map and that is TRAM, so where do you get the idea that all maps are/will be like TRAM? Take any sci fi multiplayer shooter (UT, Quake, Tribes etc) and check the variety of the maps, one map doesn't tell you much about the overall level design.

The other thing you seem to miss is that NS2 is a multiplayer first person shooter while DS2 is a singleplayer third person shooter. This is a major difference when it comes to building up atmosphere with level design; you have to start with complete different concepts, everything about the design process is different from the ground up.
Sure you could add toilets and bathrooms to feature the atmosphere of an abandoned place, I understand the underlying thought here and it makes sense if you go for a scary atmosphere. But you have to keep in mind that NS2 has its focus on multiplayer gameplay and it's not only very hard to mix that with a scary atmosphere, it will - in most cases - stand in the way of the gameplay.

From what I have seen so far the designers at UWE are doing a great job and I'm very curious what future maps might look like, some might even have toilets. It is likely that the atmosphere differs from map to map which is why - at this time - it is rather pointless to make demands based on what you have seen from one map.
It would suck if every map would feature bathrooms in the end, don't you think?

One map will have scary toilets, another will be placed on an asteroid that is currently being sucked into a black hole but hopefully none will be a copy of another. Instead of demanding a change of the overall design you could demand that one or two maps feature that anxiety driven atmosphere of an abandoned place. But in all honesty I don't think this would work all too well, it's in the nature of multiplayer games that with the action of a battle the scary atmosphere gets destroyed.

Meh, feels like I have repeated myself several times without making too much sense... /tired.

Chris0132 · February 2011

Probably somewhere else in the facility...

If every map has to include a crapper, a cafeteria, a dormitory, a parking garage, a concession stand etc, it's going to make maps kind of boring.

SatanLovesYOu · February 2011

I am just wondering why Dead Space 2 are being compared to each other? Are they not 2 different games, or am I mistaken?

Chris0132 · February 2011

Well both NS2 and dead space are strong competitors for 'most generic scifi setting ever' so it is understandable that they would be compared a lot.

ScardyBob · February 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Feb 5 2011, 03:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><a href="http://h-6.abload.de/img/deadspace22011-02-041597cc.png" target="_blank">no toilets (dead space 2 Example)</a></div>

Isaac Clarke is watching you on the john!

I think you're confusing an in-depth singleplayer environment, where bathrooms, beds, etc. make sense, to a multiplayer environment, where they don't. If someone wants to make a series of NS2 maps that have all of these elements, then that would be great, but it isn't necessary for any NS2 map.

Stele007 · February 2011

What? The art for NS2 is one of the best things about it, and it looks better than a lot AAA games I've played.

The majority of Dead Space 2's environments when compared to NS2 are too clean and high contrast. NS2's environment art is more cohesive and looks more realistic than most of the Dead Space 2's shiny/luxurious environments you linked to. Even Dead Space 2's grimier places still look shiny but with obvious blood/grime decals on them. Also, the lighting in Dead Space tends to go from very bright to very dark, but NS2 has a lot more ambient light which looks more realistic and, imo, a lot better.

Adding toilets and bedrooms are fine in singleplayer games, but it seems very unnecessary for a strategy multiplayer game. You don't want to add fluff rooms and objects that have no purpose. A bathroom is unlikely to have any strategic value to hold and probably only has one entrance, so there's really no point in going in it. Bedrooms you might pass through, and I can see someone adding that if they feel like it... but I don't understand your obsession with it.

I notice you link a bunch of other stuff from Dead Space 2 that brings attention to a large device or set piece (like those spinning circle/gravity things, the marker, the operating table, the person held in statis, the gigantic cylinder room) that work great for singeplayer but are probably too distracting for multiplayer.

Insane · February 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 6 2011, 01:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Well both NS2 and dead space are strong competitors for 'most generic scifi setting ever' so it is understandable that they would be compared a lot.</div>

The good news is that your comment is a high contender for the most generic dismissal of a bunch of other people's hard work ever.

Triggerman · February 2011

Comparing the two games and then take in the sheer production-value of the other... yeeeaaaaahhh...
The game is trying to become complete enough with a limited workforce so they have to work on what is <i>essential </i>to create more levels (although honestly, I wouldn't call NS2 being bareboned). I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to polish the levels as they build up a more extensive set of art, for example something they add to ns_mineshaft could easily be added to ns_tram later. And they are trying to be the moddable game of the century anyway, that they bring additional models and textures with updates in the future is not impossible.

And as said previously, singleplayer =/= multiplayer. Have to consider level-layout, level-balance, the strain on multiple users trying to play with each other and simplicity so people won't get lost inside toilet-rooms that have no clear purpose for a multiplayer game.

Kouji_San · February 2011

Hehe, the way I fixed this "issue" in NS1 is by having one small sign saying toilets this way and then adding a BIG LOCKED AIRLOCK SECURITY DOOR!

sheena_yanai · February 2011

not sure if op is trollan

but i would suggest, make your own "realistic maps"

culprit · February 2011

Dead Space 2 does has a L4D-variant for multiplayer, I believe. Some special undead mutants with melee and special attacks versus humans with assorted weapons is fairly similar to the NS FPS gameplay. Melee vs Ranged is a pretty broad swath of game design.

mattoX · February 2011

I thought the atmosphere of the alien rooms with all the critters and gassy substances floating around ads some more feel to the game. Also the ability to shoot out the lights is aaaawwesome!
It looks sexual and I can't wait for more things to get added, I believe the atmosphere is going to get a lot more feel as the game progresses ;}

Price · February 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (uffo @ Feb 6 2011, 12:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>There are a few locked doors, maybe they are behind them? And I believe that the toilet & sleeping quarters prop set will come along the rest of the official maps are released</div>
There are more maps?
I guess only 3?
By the way DS 2 looks way to unrealistic, DS1 is much better.

sheena_yanai · February 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Feb 6 2011, 08:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>There are more maps?
I guess only 3?
By the way DS 2 looks way to unrealistic, DS1 is much better.</div>

confirmed for trolling

Shilorius · February 2011

I agree partially with OP.
He is right, in some maps it would be awesome to have toilets and a cafeteria... maybe if the aliens attack some marine outpost.
But in the current map (tram .. remember rockdown is just a testmap) its fine without theese things.

Besides.. I've never found any toilet in tramstations if I have to go... >_>

Harimau · February 2011

NS2 needs a red-light district.

Shilorius · February 2011

It's already in!
Just let the aliens cut the power [trollface.jpg]

Harimau · February 2011

Sigh.
I hate it when people explain the joke. Takes out all the amusement.

Thaldarin · February 2011

Realistic science-fiction. I lol'd.

NS 2 NEEDS SPACE TOILETS!

Kouji_San · February 2011

Every space ship needs a poop deck... <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>And yes I know it is not actually a "poop" deck!</span>

Crispix · February 2011

Guys, I really need to poop in NS2. Ever since the engine test, I've been holding it in. I don't know if I can hold it in any longer......Where are my toilets?!

map Design ist not realistic and scary enough

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