<!--quoteo(post=1831380:date=Feb 11 2011, 07:03 AM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Feb 11 2011, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->uwe should try to learn from its ways :p just imagine skulks hunting in packs sonaring together, saving alot of adrenaline that way if its going to use it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you did read my post like 2 posts above, right? :P
Awesome. I like how it seems that you guys are actually having a lot of fun making the game!
As suggested before, it would be cool if aliens would emit a single sonar wave thingy when they press F. Aliens should also see their teammates' sonars so it would be more efficient to "hunt" in packs.
<!--quoteo(post=1831386:date=Feb 11 2011, 10:19 PM:name=Viper_two_nine_A)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Viper_two_nine_A @ Feb 11 2011, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you did read my post like 2 posts above, right? :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, so?
but i also think that the vision of each different alien you could evolve to should be different
like, skulks, pack hunters should be able to do the echo location thing
gorges dont really need that, some low range heat sensing would be alright, with the ability to actualy see how much health a team mate has by the color he shines up in his view
fades could have a advanced version of the skulks echo location, adding vibration sensing and a limited range heat vision, which could be alternatly used for sense of fear like upgrades, making the fade more of a efficient hunter.
the lerk is maybe the closest thing to a bat we have, but having him already already loaded with flight controls and twitchy combat, it would make no sense giving him this "sonar button" its already busy enough for the lerk, i guess a passive sonar, displaying movements by the noise marines create with a low light night vision would do it
the onos well.. the onos just have to see walking hamburgers instead of marines
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2011
Will Flare receive some cool new effects as well (in the future)?
I've made a quick mockup: <img src="http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/tsalerk/ns22011-01-0623-43-43-28-1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Original vision: <img src="http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/tsalerk/ns22011-01-0623-43-43-29.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1831356:date=Feb 11 2011, 05:26 PM:name=l3lessed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l3lessed @ Feb 11 2011, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats fine, but what is the point of ever turning it off then. And if that's the case you might as well always keep it on all the time and not even make it an option. Which I guess would be fine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, the point is that it's automatic. There is no toggle. At all levels of light, you will be able to see well; but at lower levels of light, your 'special vision' will be more pronounced while at high levels of light your 'special vision' will be less pronounced. An alien could tell how dark a room is by how pronounced their 'special vision' effect is.
<!--quoteo(post=1831371:date=Feb 11 2011, 06:54 PM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revenge @ Feb 11 2011, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok ok, seeing sound is a form of synesthesia, and if you are using a passive sonar system then you would indeed stop detecting a target if the target stopped producing sound. In any case, shooting down some really cool sounding suggestions for the sake of semantics isn't really all that helpful. If you were that bothered by it, you could have chosen to educate them instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude, rationalising it through the concept of synesthesia is a ######' awesome idea. Does anyone know of any games that have used synesthesia as a graphical or even gameplay element?
Nevertheless, I would more support an active sonar system.
<!--quoteo(post=1831377:date=Feb 11 2011, 09:49 PM:name=Viper_two_nine_A)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Viper_two_nine_A @ Feb 11 2011, 09:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-> Imagine the same in NS2: Skulks running around in the dark - screaming in an unusual way to be able to see. For the duration of a scream everything gets brighter, but screams cost adrenaline. So as soon as there is no noise the aliens view gets (almost as) dark as the marines view.
This would also help marines a little bit to locate skulks and thus compensate a little bit for the night vision ability<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Holy crap this post set my imagination on fire. That would be absolutely amazing. An activated alien ability that sets off a sweep effect from that player's location, and every time it hits marine a new sweep effect is spawned at their location like a ripple in a pond.
One skulk could scream to light up all the marines and draw their attention... As the marines chase after the source of the noise another 3 skulks drop down behind them and tear them to shreds....
EDIT: It occurs to me that echolocation via synesthesia would be far more appropriate for a Lerk than a Skulk. Still though... Mad sexy fun time. MAD. SEXY. FUN. TIME. EDIT²: Ok, so... Like... The Lerk could have the ability to ping, but all Kharaa would be able to see the effect.... Yeh... Nom.
Oh! Oh! Oh! And... And... There's nothing to stop the layering of these effects!
It seems to me that the effect showcased from 0:56 onwards could be tweaked for a subtle "always-on" effect for geometry only (structures and players would not be highlighted). Tweak it to some medium shade of grey and blur the outlines and you'll end up with this weird effect where the alien player can always just sort of make out the edges of the geometry and continue navigating happily.
This then could be later combined with all the bat sonar madness we're all frothing at the mouth with excessive amounts of excitement about.
EDIT: And yes, I am excessively excited about this.
The last effect is the one I like the most, it should be that one, except, I would only put the scanning effect for when it turns on and off, and for when it turns off, I would change its direction so the dark comes toward you. Althoug seeing what results quick tests gets you, I imagine that by tweaking this, it'll look bloody awesome.
Not so sure about the pulsing for aliens. I kind of liked the first few experiments. Like someone else said earlier just make it so when they look into a lit room that it becomes blinding. This would make it so the aliens wouldn't have it on all the time. And when the emergency lights come on you could make it disorientating to the point it wouldn't be a good idea to have it on.
I like the idea of a marine scanner sweep with a single pulse showing all cloaked aliens in the room for a short period of time in a blue hue that was also mentioned in the beginning of the thread.
Aren't these lighting effects client side? So would it be hard to actually use them for a de-cloaking weapon since the server would have to know the location of the pulsing lines as they move?
It's cool that in a few hours of work, UWE can use Spark to make what could be an entire game mode or basis for a total conversion. I guess that's what happens when you divide by zero and pi. (best line yet in a video... is that Matt poking some fun at Max?)
That last option is BADASS!!! Mix that with the textures fading in again when there is light and we have a very unique experince for each race!!!
Maybe there should be a downside to it that the humans can adapt to....maybe it could blind the Kharaa for a few seconds when there is a sudden change of light like repairing a powernode....no outlines for a few seconds except for the sonar pulse so the aliens must rely on that for the few moments of adaptation...
Love the last effect, but I'm not as much a fan of the hard edge when the effect is removed. (There is a hard edge when it starts AND when it stops.)
Rather than using the sin (or cos) why not make it a green/yellow pulse followed by a linear decay back to normal vision. I think that would be even better. It would be a little more sonar-like, as one of the guys in the video mentioned. This could also be an upgrade for the aliens, no?
<!--quoteo(post=1831435:date=Feb 11 2011, 01:01 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Feb 11 2011, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's cool that in a few hours of work, UWE can use Spark to make what could be an entire game mode or basis for a total conversion. I guess that's what happens when you divide by zero and pi. (best line yet in a video... is that Matt poking some fun at Max?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Matt is just a dorky ham. It's great. Just look at his Forum Avatar pic.
<img src="http://www.thereviewcrew.com/wp-content/uploads/halo-3-odst-3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I loved this system. Hope this doesn't start a "Halo features have no place in this game!" argument cuz I think it does belong in the game. I also kind of liked the idea of repairing a powernode briefly overwhelming alien vision (very very briefly and not like blind or anything).
<!--quoteo(post=1831457:date=Feb 12 2011, 04:16 AM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Feb 12 2011, 04:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://www.thereviewcrew.com/wp-content/uploads/halo-3-odst-3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I loved this system. Hope this doesn't start a "Halo features have no place in this game!" argument cuz I think it does belong in the game. I also kind of liked the idea of repairing a powernode briefly overwhelming alien vision (very very briefly and not like blind or anything).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well... Thankfully... This feature is kind of all over the place. Look at, well... ANY cell shaded game. Ever. Ever ever. I remember playing a HL1 Sven Coop Mod that had a cellshaded level where the enemies in it had that crazy outline effect going on.
Also, Champions Online is one example of a game that outlining as a main graphical feature. That this video feature the outlines being randoml green doesn;t mean anything.
- I liked the outline mode. However, rather than being constantly on, it should have a slow "throb", which goes from bright outlines (as they were in the video) to barely perceptible, over a few seconds.
- No continuous psychedelic/fast changing colors please. They were cool, and could still be used in exceptional cases -- like when you get hit by a bullet or are very low on health.
- I would prefer regular lighting be preserved for well lighted areas. Perhaps the alien view mode effect would be inversely proportional to the lighting in the area. This means the outline would be more subdued in well-lighted areas, while still being present.
- I'm sure you know this, but please don't make us choose between a playable and beautiful game. If an alien has to see in black and white or washed out textures, then people won't want to play as alien as much.
The last green sonar is cool for observatory scan i think !!!
Anyway here is a way to improve it.
For now, this "scan" is in two part 1) a green sonar fill the room 2) a few second after, a "normal vision" sonar go over it.
I think it would be cool to simply make a cooldown on the green things reavlead by the first sonar. So that everything goes to green like in 1), but instead of 2) have simply the green revealed map to fade/go back into normal vision.. like does the radar on Airplane computers you know, something like this : <img src="http://francais.softpicks.net/screenshots/Radar-Screensaver.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There is a scan that reveal everything , then everything disappear slowly and proportionally to the time elapsed since they were scanned.
My english is bad but I wish you understood the idea anyway.
I really hate it. It feels like we are in a robotic lifeform that is scanning all the environment near it every second ! That's not how i would see an alien "night" vision.
Alien should easily locate organic lifeform (so all their buildings+marines) with night vision and all the environment that isn't organic turning into another static color not too bright/not too dark that helps him find the path to its target without running into a walls/crates/obstacles.
I like the scan effect as a demonstration of what the engine can do, but feel that it may have a better use as a waypoint mechanism if toned down. I never liked idea of aliens having official markers counting down.
The alien vision needs to be very organic, like a second eyelid opening up. The scan effect shown is too high tech looking. I think it is great to show these videos as early concepts and get opinions.
<!--quoteo(post=1831475:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:31 PM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ Feb 11 2011, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831475"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hate it. It feels like we are in a robotic lifeform that is scanning all the environment near it every second ! That's not how i would see an alien "night" vision.
Alien should easily locate organic lifeform (so all their buildings+marines) with night vision and all the environment that isn't organic turning into another static color not too bright/not too dark that helps him find the path to its target without running into a walls/crates/obstacles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read again my post. I was speaking of a "observatory scan" effect, not an alien one.
<!--quoteo(post=1831478:date=Feb 12 2011, 05:43 AM:name=Game-Sloth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Game-Sloth @ Feb 12 2011, 05:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the scan effect but feel that it would have a better use as a waypoint mechanism. I never liked idea of aliens having official markers counting down.
The alien vision shown be very organic, like a second eyelid opening up. I think it is great to show these videos as early concepts and get opinions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The great thing about "organic" effects is that you can perceive them as easily from randomly occuring events as you can from visually random scenes. Having multiple players sending off these pulses each time they click their left mouse button will create a very organic experience for anyone observing the display.
Comments
you did read my post like 2 posts above, right? :P
As suggested before, it would be cool if aliens would emit a single sonar wave thingy when they press F. Aliens should also see their teammates' sonars so it would be more efficient to "hunt" in packs.
yes, so?
but i also think that the vision of each different alien you could evolve to should be different
like, skulks, pack hunters should be able to do the echo location thing
gorges dont really need that, some low range heat sensing would be alright, with the ability to actualy see how much health a team mate has by the color he shines up in his view
fades could have a advanced version of the skulks echo location, adding vibration sensing and a limited range heat vision, which could be alternatly used for sense of fear like upgrades, making the fade more of a efficient hunter.
the lerk is maybe the closest thing to a bat we have, but having him already already loaded with flight controls and twitchy combat, it would make no sense giving him this "sonar button" its already busy enough for the lerk, i guess a passive sonar, displaying movements by the noise marines create with a low light night vision would do it
the onos
well..
the onos just have to see walking hamburgers instead of marines
Cutup ;)
I've made a quick mockup:
<img src="http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/tsalerk/ns22011-01-0623-43-43-28-1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Original vision:
<img src="http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/tsalerk/ns22011-01-0623-43-43-29.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No, the point is that it's automatic. There is no toggle. At all levels of light, you will be able to see well; but at lower levels of light, your 'special vision' will be more pronounced while at high levels of light your 'special vision' will be less pronounced. An alien could tell how dark a room is by how pronounced their 'special vision' effect is.
<!--quoteo(post=1831371:date=Feb 11 2011, 06:54 PM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revenge @ Feb 11 2011, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok ok, seeing sound is a form of synesthesia, and if you are using a passive sonar system then you would indeed stop detecting a target if the target stopped producing sound. In any case, shooting down some really cool sounding suggestions for the sake of semantics isn't really all that helpful. If you were that bothered by it, you could have chosen to educate them instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, rationalising it through the concept of synesthesia is a ######' awesome idea. Does anyone know of any games that have used synesthesia as a graphical or even gameplay element?
Nevertheless, I would more support an active sonar system.
This would also help marines a little bit to locate skulks and thus compensate a little bit for the night vision ability<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Holy crap this post set my imagination on fire. That would be absolutely amazing. An activated alien ability that sets off a sweep effect from that player's location, and every time it hits marine a new sweep effect is spawned at their location like a ripple in a pond.
One skulk could scream to light up all the marines and draw their attention... As the marines chase after the source of the noise another 3 skulks drop down behind them and tear them to shreds....
EDIT: It occurs to me that echolocation via synesthesia would be far more appropriate for a Lerk than a Skulk. Still though... Mad sexy fun time. MAD. SEXY. FUN. TIME.
EDIT²: Ok, so... Like... The Lerk could have the ability to ping, but all Kharaa would be able to see the effect.... Yeh... Nom.
It seems to me that the effect showcased from 0:56 onwards could be tweaked for a subtle "always-on" effect for geometry only (structures and players would not be highlighted). Tweak it to some medium shade of grey and blur the outlines and you'll end up with this weird effect where the alien player can always just sort of make out the edges of the geometry and continue navigating happily.
This then could be later combined with all the bat sonar madness we're all frothing at the mouth with excessive amounts of excitement about.
EDIT: And yes, I am excessively excited about this.
Althoug seeing what results quick tests gets you, I imagine that by tweaking this, it'll look bloody awesome.
I like that you aren't doing a massive layer of blur just to get a cool effect.
Not so sure about the pulsing for aliens. I kind of liked the first few experiments. Like someone else said earlier just make it so when they look into a lit room that it becomes blinding. This would make it so the aliens wouldn't have it on all the time. And when the emergency lights come on you could make it disorientating to the point it wouldn't be a good idea to have it on.
I like the idea of a marine scanner sweep with a single pulse showing all cloaked aliens in the room for a short period of time in a blue hue that was also mentioned in the beginning of the thread.
Can't wait to see this in game.
Maybe there should be a downside to it that the humans can adapt to....maybe it could blind the Kharaa for a few seconds when there is a sudden change of light like repairing a powernode....no outlines for a few seconds except for the sonar pulse so the aliens must rely on that for the few moments of adaptation...
Rather than using the sin (or cos) why not make it a green/yellow pulse followed by a linear decay back to normal vision. I think that would be even better. It would be a little more sonar-like, as one of the guys in the video mentioned. This could also be an upgrade for the aliens, no?
Great work guys. This is where LUA really shines.
Matt is just a dorky ham. It's great. Just look at his Forum Avatar pic.
I loved this system. Hope this doesn't start a "Halo features have no place in this game!" argument cuz I think it does belong in the game. I also kind of liked the idea of repairing a powernode briefly overwhelming alien vision (very very briefly and not like blind or anything).
I loved this system. Hope this doesn't start a "Halo features have no place in this game!" argument cuz I think it does belong in the game. I also kind of liked the idea of repairing a powernode briefly overwhelming alien vision (very very briefly and not like blind or anything).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well... Thankfully... This feature is kind of all over the place. Look at, well... ANY cell shaded game. Ever. Ever ever. I remember playing a HL1 Sven Coop Mod that had a cellshaded level where the enemies in it had that crazy outline effect going on.
Also, Champions Online is one example of a game that outlining as a main graphical feature. That this video feature the outlines being randoml green doesn;t mean anything.
- No continuous psychedelic/fast changing colors please. They were cool, and could still be used in exceptional cases -- like when you get hit by a bullet or are very low on health.
- I would prefer regular lighting be preserved for well lighted areas. Perhaps the alien view mode effect would be inversely proportional to the lighting in the area. This means the outline would be more subdued in well-lighted areas, while still being present.
- I'm sure you know this, but please don't make us choose between a playable and beautiful game. If an alien has to see in black and white or washed out textures, then people won't want to play as alien as much.
...Kharaa flashlight.
Anyway here is a way to improve it.
For now, this "scan" is in two part
1) a green sonar fill the room
2) a few second after, a "normal vision" sonar go over it.
I think it would be cool to simply make a cooldown on the green things reavlead by the first sonar.
So that everything goes to green like in 1), but instead of 2) have simply the green revealed map to fade/go back into normal vision.. like does the radar on Airplane computers
you know, something like this :
<img src="http://francais.softpicks.net/screenshots/Radar-Screensaver.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There is a scan that reveal everything , then everything disappear slowly and proportionally to the time elapsed since they were scanned.
My english is bad but I wish you understood the idea anyway.
Alien should easily locate organic lifeform (so all their buildings+marines) with night vision and all the environment that isn't organic turning into another static color not too bright/not too dark that helps him find the path to its target without running into a walls/crates/obstacles.
The alien vision needs to be very organic, like a second eyelid opening up. The scan effect shown is too high tech looking.
I think it is great to show these videos as early concepts and get opinions.
Alien should easily locate organic lifeform (so all their buildings+marines) with night vision and all the environment that isn't organic turning into another static color not too bright/not too dark that helps him find the path to its target without running into a walls/crates/obstacles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read again my post.
I was speaking of a "observatory scan" effect, not an alien one.
The alien vision shown be very organic, like a second eyelid opening up.
I think it is great to show these videos as early concepts and get opinions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The great thing about "organic" effects is that you can perceive them as easily from randomly occuring events as you can from visually random scenes. Having multiple players sending off these pulses each time they click their left mouse button will create a very organic experience for anyone observing the display.