Darkness of the maps.
IronHorse
Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
(Not trying to repeat a subject here, i know there are multiple threads discussing this, just thinking about how much more important this issue is now that alien vision will be included.)
Will the maps get any darker or will the red lights / power outage get any darker?
because currently there are very few places (read: ceiling corners) akin to NS1 darkness for a skulk..
even in the emergency red lighting, as a marine its incredibly easy to see any skulk - still or moving.
and now with the aliens getting a vision mode... it will just be visual noise if it is not clear where darkness is, and if darkness isn't, er, dark enough.
amazing video and effects btw..
Will the maps get any darker or will the red lights / power outage get any darker?
because currently there are very few places (read: ceiling corners) akin to NS1 darkness for a skulk..
even in the emergency red lighting, as a marine its incredibly easy to see any skulk - still or moving.
and now with the aliens getting a vision mode... it will just be visual noise if it is not clear where darkness is, and if darkness isn't, er, dark enough.
amazing video and effects btw..
Comments
What monitor are you running this on? The problem is that this is so dependent on PC spec.
I have a Laptop monitor (TN Panel) with dual display running on a Dell 22" (IPS - Panel). Because the blacks on the IPS panel are awesome it looks very dark in areas, where as on the TN panel (most gamers will make use of these because of fast response times) you have less of a contrast ratio and things tend to look a lot brighter.
To be honest I would prefer if UWE said "let's go the whole way" forcing players to use flash lights and alien vision. Rather than taking the middle ground which is dependent on factors like this, rather than intended game play mechanics.
There is a thread for <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112711" target="_blank">alien camouflage bonus on Dynamic Infestation</a> in the suggestions forums. I would love to see that implemented instead of pitch darkness.
What needs to happen is that mappers need to be able to alter the emergency lighting effect, so they can put hues in with yellow/pink mixes to create some variation to the colour space. I could be wrong and this is occurring already, but it doesn't seem to be.
What needs to happen is that mappers need to be able to alter the emergency lighting effect, so they can put hues in with yellow/pink mixes to create some variation to the colour space. I could be wrong and this is occurring already, but it doesn't seem to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't get that anyway, spark doesn't do that.
The only thing coloured light does is mess with the colour of stuff it hits.
<b><i>whats the point of both dynamic lighting and flashlights if the game is always bright in every environment?</i></b>
why are we not forcing the marines to use their flashlight due to darkness when the power is cut??
other than disabling the marine structures there is currently no point in destroying a power node for darkness..
(i am using a newish Asus 1080p 24" LCD monitor)
reduced visibility will cause marines to use their flashlights and actually feel a sense of fear, panic, or anxiety. not frustration. who is frustrated because the skulk cleverly positioned himself in the corner above me in the darkness and eats me because i didnt look beforehand? you jump and scream and fire.. but the skulk was doing what he was supposed to be doing, being clever, cautious, and lerking in the shadows as an alien.. while you were being the marine with the gun and a flashlight.
<i>in a well lit large room there is no equality between a marine and a skulk.</i>
cranking up their screen gamma should be capped or limited severely to avoid this issue. everyone hates exploiters.
The only thing coloured light does is mess with the colour of stuff it hits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it doesn't do that, that is the point. At the moment mappers have to fake this sort of thing, by creating reflected light sources behind pipes and what not. That is why the maps have over 1000 lights in them. Otherwise it would look really flat.
That is why you need different hues of red/yellow/etc to bring more life to the emergency lighting.
always loved the original bast with its nostromo like theme going on
At a minimum, all darkness should be temporary and hamper both sides equally.
At a minimum, all darkness should be temporary and hamper both sides equally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless you are talking about the mod that allowed both the flash light and gun to be used at the same time, then you are missing a rather large and obvious difference between Doom 3 and NS2. And if you are talking about your opinion of the Doom 3 darkness including mod, well, I guess we just disagree.
Fact is, the marine flashlight is useless at the moment. The emergency lighting is just normal lighting, but red, for all intents and purposes. I don't even have any trouble seeing marines as an alien, making the effort put into the alien view mode also pointless. Although it looks damn cool.
If it was my game, I would make nodeless rooms pitch black, but give marines more light options. Obviously, this wouldn't be for everyone, so I would gladly settle for them just making it so that the flashlight is needed. I honestly don't even instinctively turn it on in a powerless room. It might as well be taken out, at least that would make it worth having emergency lighting at all. Currently, the only advantage it gives aliens is the rare corner you can actually not be seen in. What a waste of such an awesome lighting engine.
That is why you need different hues of red/yellow/etc to bring more life to the emergency lighting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All emergency lighting does is turn the lights red and make them pulse, you still get the reflected lights and suchlike, they're just red, which makes sense because the light it is 'reflecting' is red.
Literally the only thing you lose is the colour, you aren't going to get that back unless you make emergency lights dark grey or have three or four different primary colours of light.
::facepalm::
he just re iterated my whole point of why i made this thread lol
Literally the only thing you lose is the colour, you aren't going to get that back unless you make emergency lights dark grey or have three or four different primary colours of light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a (perfect) red light hits a red object, depending on its properties it may actually reflect light that is more saturated. Therefore the reflected light will be a more saturated red.
If a (perfect) red light hits a (perfect) green object, it will not reflect colour because it is absorbed. Therefore appearing black or grey.
The problem is that filtered light is not perfect, you will still get other frequencies getting through and mixing occurring and producing different frequencies of colour.
Because the complexities of colour absorption, diffusion, reflection, etc can not be replicated by Spark, they need to be faked.
Therefore having a variety of red hues in areas that have emergency lighting would make a difference to the overall appearance of the effect. Given artistic license, it will make the emergency lighting more dramatic and the scene less flat.
It is similar to how listening to live music is different to recorded, because you have subtle harmonics that are cut out of the recording due to compression. They add to the overall sound, but you don't really notice them.
Light physics in a scene is infinitely more complex then 'the light is red' therefore 'every reflected source is the same red'.
no matter dark or bright place, just the hope the noobrine wont check this spot.
Like has been mentioned, they have made the engine from scratch themselves, and implemented an awesome dynamic light engine, and ONLY dynamic light. It seems stupid and pointless unless they actually add some seriously dark areas.
EDIT:
<!--quoteo(post=1831905:date=Feb 13 2011, 01:10 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 13 2011, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->::facepalm::
he just re iterated my whole point of why i made this thread lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense, I think I just covered a few more points in more detail. I don't know why you bothered facepalming though, it's not like this is the first thread on the topic, or you are the first person raising the points.
That said, NS2 maps are already too dark.
That said, NS2 maps are already too dark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What might these obvious reasons be? 'Cause I don't see them.
As for maps already being too dark, wth are you on? Are your monitor settings right? You don't need to use the flashlight 99% of the time, how can this possibly be too dark?
As for maps already being too dark, wth are you on? Are your monitor settings right? You don't need to use the flashlight 99% of the time, how can this possibly be too dark?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what you said is the best reason to not use darkness as part of gameplay. Whats too dark for him, is just right for you, is too bright for Dave from down the road. It's incredibly variable between hardware setups.
So the developers are restricted from doing something awesome and immersive because people can't set their monitors correctly? What a bull###### excuse! All it needs is one of those screens in the options that allows you to adjust gamma, brightness etc with several images and the instruction "Adjust the brightness until the far left image disappears and the middle image is difficult to see".
As for the subjective argument that some people just don't like dark games, well, tough. I am assuming that what UWE mean to do is make the game darker, since it only makes sense given the work they have put in to the engine/dynamic lighting and giving us flashlights at all (sure, we had them in NS1, but that was a mod and so more or less came with them as standard. With NS2 they have clearly had to actually code them in on purpose, with it being a new engine and all).
Of course, if I am wrong and that was all a waste of time on UWE's part, well, tough for me instead I guess.
EDIT:
Any more reasons? I have yet to hear a good one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. If that is the best one that people can think of thought, then I find it a really poor reason.