<!--quoteo(post=1833727:date=Feb 19 2011, 10:13 PM:name=ZelDerX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZelDerX @ Feb 19 2011, 10:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But if you try again youll just run 1\2 seconds insted<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...including an exhausted "Huaaargh!" gasping sound :D . Me likey.
If you can't catch a sprinting marine using leap.. I got no idea what to tell ya.. sounds like a lack of skill issue rather then balance issue which is the LAST thing this forum needs. It eventually leads to dumbing down the game and wrongfully nerfing something that is perfectly fine, to accommodate a single player who is unable to effectively play the game.. which in effect slowly kills the game entirely.
One more thing, NS is a team based game, just because you MIGHT not get a pretty kill added to your stats because you somehow can't catch a marine, isn't what this game is about. The fact that you PUSHED back the marines from ADVANCING is almost as good as killing him, but you don't get a stat for that so I can understand complaining.
<!--quoteo(post=1833768:date=Feb 19 2011, 07:09 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Feb 19 2011, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can't catch a sprinting marine using leap.. I got no idea what to tell ya.. sounds like a lack of skill issue rather then balance issue which is the LAST thing this forum needs. It eventually leads to dumbing down the game and wrongfully nerfing something that is perfectly fine, to accommodate a single player who is unable to effectively play the game.. which in effect slowly kills the game entirely.
One more thing, NS is a team based game, just because you MIGHT not get a pretty kill added to your stats because you somehow can't catch a marine, isn't what this game is about. The fact that you PUSHED back the marines from ADVANCING is almost as good as killing him, but you don't get a stat for that so I can understand complaining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
didn't get the memo? games these days are all about stats. you're bad unless you're on top of the scoreboard.
<!--quoteo(post=1833561:date=Feb 19 2011, 10:48 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Feb 19 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why isnt it the same as NS1?, it seemed pretty balanced to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
while ns1 was the finished product, and ns2 is under constant development who knows. Although taking ideas from ns1 is usually the BEST thing we can do, even though I don't see much of that. In many cases current alien abilities are badly gimped, and in endgame fights aliens have zero chance of defense unless they rush the base under despaired measures.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited February 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1833502:date=Feb 18 2011, 08:24 PM:name=Pampelmuse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pampelmuse @ Feb 18 2011, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this would totally nullify the aliens advantage to take cover after an attack... while they still keep their disadvantage of being forced to melee attack<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How so? Marines can't fire when sprinting and theres generally plenty of cover in most rooms to escape without being shot.
I just don't see how limiting sprinting any further makes sense. There are already significant disadvantages from sprinting (e.g. you can't shoot or jump). I just don't see why you shouldn't be able to outrun a skulk while sprinting. 1) To sprint you need to face away from the skulk anyways and 2) you can't fire even if you were facing the skulk. At the most, I'd say make sprinting cost stamina (so you can't sprint forever), but thats it.
<!--quoteo(post=1833821:date=Feb 20 2011, 03:45 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Feb 20 2011, 03:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't see how limiting sprinting any further makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.you don't play aliens 2. not read this thread 3.no idea what you're talking about
pick one which ever defines you.
to your question of why a marine shouldn't out run a skulk few reasons why not, which all can be found in this thread. If you can't see balance issues here, you really do not play aliens. And finally skulks are most effective on ground, and walls, thinking any marine can out run a dog like alien we sure are playing some amazing futuristic game.
I play aliens more than marines and I agree with him.
If you make marines sprint any slower then the difference between sprinting and walking will hardly be noticeable.
The point of skulks is to stop marines expanding, now in the early game killing them won't actually make much difference, they'll respawn back at base with the same gun they started with, or with plenty of plasma to buy another shotgun. Killing them doesn't stop them or cost them anything other than time.
If they have to run back to base, you have achieved the same result, they have to spend time getting back to base and healed up, they probably have to spend MORE time running than they would respawning, so chasing them off is probably the better option.
Once killing marines starts to matter, you should have fades, lerks, and running leap to kill them with.
Not being able to kill marines if they run away in the early game is not something I think is an issue.
Has anyone got any idea on the future movement system? Comprox locked one bhop thread saying that UWE is planning a new movement skill system that isn't bhop, but I don't think there has been any actual talk on it.
The skill based movement would basically mean that skulks could move at noticeably higher speeds than just the 0.4 margin they've got compared to the sprint right now.
Death DragonJoin Date: 2010-01-11Member: 70072Members
I kinda think marines are way too fast able to fire again after they stop sprinting. You try to chase down some sprinting marine as skulk and then he just turns around and shotguns your face with you not really being able to evade anymore.
If he's running, you've won. Really it's risk vs reward. Many people take the risk, but don't consider the reward. If he's got some expensive, high-tier stuff and you want to get rid of that, then sure, take the risk. But if he's a vanilla marine with a rifle, what are you really pursuing him for? The KDR? Putting him in the spawn queue for 15 seconds? You sure as hell don't get resources from it.
Now, it's fine, if the game you're making is simply Combat where kills are absolutely necessary, but since this is a strategy game as well, you have to consider it from that perspective. There's nothing wrong with a more combat-oriented game where kills do matter more, we all enjoy that. It is, however, up to the developers to decide whether they're going to encourage kills or simply breaking forces; but currently, it's the latter.
I also quite like having the option to run away as a marine. If every fight comes down to 'the skulk runs at you, what do you do? >shoot skulk with rifle: You missed, you are dead, retry? Y/N' then it makes the game a little repetitive.
<!--quoteo(post=1833915:date=Feb 20 2011, 04:05 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 20 2011, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also quite like having the option to run away as a marine. If every fight comes down to 'the skulk runs at you, what do you do? >shoot skulk with rifle: You missed, you are dead, retry? Y/N' then it makes the game a little repetitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Switch to secondary weapon or axe?
<!--quoteo(post=1833793:date=Feb 19 2011, 08:38 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Feb 19 2011, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a suggestion:
Marines can't sprint on infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't mind this. If the Marine makes it back to "human territory" then he should be able to get away. Unless a Gorge lays a sticky trap for him :D
I don't think marine sprint speed itself is the problem, it's just how the other things are balanced. I don't like the Leap situation as it is now. I always forget that skulks have to buy it, so I haven't gotten full Leap once in a real game.
Blink is also a problem. The Fades need more control over how they move, but I have to admit I like the Nightcrawler poofs. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Fade's blink return to NS1, but I'd make one change: the Fade stays invisible whenever the ability is activated. What I mean by that, is the moment you click the mouse, the Fade poofs out. The moment you let go of the mouse button (or run out of energy), he poofs back in. Other than that, the fade plays just like NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1833898:date=Feb 20 2011, 08:52 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 20 2011, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833898"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If he's running, you've won. Really it's risk vs reward. Many people take the risk, but don't consider the reward. If he's got some expensive, high-tier stuff and you want to get rid of that, then sure, take the risk. But if he's a vanilla marine with a rifle, what are you really pursuing him for? The KDR? Putting him in the spawn queue for 15 seconds? You sure as hell don't get resources from it.
Now, it's fine, if the game you're making is simply Combat where kills are absolutely necessary, but since this is a strategy game as well, you have to consider it from that perspective. There's nothing wrong with a more combat-oriented game where kills do matter more, we all enjoy that. It is, however, up to the developers to decide whether they're going to encourage kills or simply breaking forces; but currently, it's the latter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly the point, this seems more like a complaint about the lack of their kill ratio then actual game play balance. You do realize that if Marines CAN'T advance they lose right? So if Marines are RUNNING the Aliens are WINNING. You don't have to see a number next to your name in order to feel like you achieved something, if you made him run from you especially.. as a skulk which is sad in itself then you have already won even if you don't get that stat you seem to care a lot about. Also as it's been stated before you CAN catch them with leap since the PROOF and facts SHOW that the leap speed is far greater then skulk, even the marine sprint is 6.0 and skulk running is 6.2 which is FASTER by default. How is this possibly a serious complaint.. I mean if anything Aliens need to be nerfed considering the FACTS prove Aliens are winning MORE games, yet all these post are constantly about nerfing the.. losing team?? How is this sensible? Yeah, things have changed with the latest patch and DI but lets wait for those facts to come in, I'm sure it dropped the Alien win ratio down but we don't know yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1833934:date=Feb 21 2011, 02:06 AM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Feb 21 2011, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is this possibly a serious complaint.. I mean if anything Aliens need to be nerfed considering the FACTS prove Aliens are winning MORE games, yet all these post are constantly about nerfing the.. losing team?? How is this sensible? Yeah, things have changed with the latest patch and DI but lets wait for those facts to come in, I'm sure it dropped the Alien win ratio down but we don't know yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> All true until flamethrowers enter the picture. I think the flamethrower should be disabled until they make it what it should be. Give us something else to whet our appetites, in the meantime. Like the exo.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1833823:date=Feb 19 2011, 06:58 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Feb 19 2011, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.you don't play aliens 2. not read this thread 3.no idea what you're talking about
pick one which ever defines you.
to your question of why a marine shouldn't out run a skulk few reasons why not, which all can be found in this thread. If you can't see balance issues here, you really do not play aliens. And finally skulks are most effective on ground, and walls, thinking any marine can out run a dog like alien we sure are playing some amazing futuristic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play aliens all the time. I have no trouble killing marines, because I attack them from the sides or above or ambush them from around corners like you are supposed to as an alien. If you're chasing a sprinting marine back to his base, you're just as likely to run into another marine who shotguns you in the face.
Also, as numerous people have mentioned in this thread, a retreating marine is effectively the same as a dead marine. If they aren't advancing on your territory, they are losing.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1833932:date=Feb 20 2011, 09:58 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Feb 20 2011, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the Fade stays invisible whenever the ability is activated. What I mean by that, is the moment you click the mouse, the Fade poofs out. The moment you let go of the mouse button (or run out of energy), he poofs back in. Other than that, the fade plays just like NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hijack thread momentarily:
+1 i've been thinking that this is how they should have done it from the beginning, giving you proper "setup" or "orientation" time to spin around and find the enemy in a ghostlike state, then re appear with claws ready.. all the while draining your energy.. (maybe even exponentially when your in that ghost state to encourage faster setup times.)
this also works in retreat mode so you're not running into ###### walls every time..
+1 i've been thinking that this is how they should have done it from the beginning, giving you proper "setup" or "orientation" time to spin around and find the enemy in a ghostlike state, then re appear with claws ready.. all the while draining your energy.. (maybe even exponentially when your in that ghost state to encourage faster setup times.)
this also works in retreat mode so you're not running into ###### walls every time..
/Hijacking<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I approve of this hijack.
Blink targeting also needs a lot more work. It is not working correctly when the cursor is pointed straight at an enemy, forcing the Fade to target off target. Also, it is impossible to blink to the opposite side of the target (needed when chasing a target).
Comments
You can run for 7seconds for example after that there need to be a "rest" time before you can full spring again
But if you try again youll just run 1\2 seconds insted
...including an exhausted "Huaaargh!" gasping sound :D . Me likey.
One more thing, NS is a team based game, just because you MIGHT not get a pretty kill added to your stats because you somehow can't catch a marine, isn't what this game is about. The fact that you PUSHED back the marines from ADVANCING is almost as good as killing him, but you don't get a stat for that so I can understand complaining.
One more thing, NS is a team based game, just because you MIGHT not get a pretty kill added to your stats because you somehow can't catch a marine, isn't what this game is about. The fact that you PUSHED back the marines from ADVANCING is almost as good as killing him, but you don't get a stat for that so I can understand complaining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
didn't get the memo? games these days are all about stats. you're bad unless you're on top of the scoreboard.
while ns1 was the finished product, and ns2 is under constant development who knows. Although taking ideas from ns1 is usually the BEST thing we can do, even though I don't see much of that. In many cases current alien abilities are badly gimped, and in endgame fights aliens have zero chance of defense unless they rush the base under despaired measures.
Marines can't sprint on infestation.
How so? Marines can't fire when sprinting and theres generally plenty of cover in most rooms to escape without being shot.
I just don't see how limiting sprinting any further makes sense. There are already significant disadvantages from sprinting (e.g. you can't shoot or jump). I just don't see why you shouldn't be able to outrun a skulk while sprinting. 1) To sprint you need to face away from the skulk anyways and 2) you can't fire even if you were facing the skulk. At the most, I'd say make sprinting cost stamina (so you can't sprint forever), but thats it.
1.you don't play aliens
2. not read this thread
3.no idea what you're talking about
pick one which ever defines you.
to your question of why a marine shouldn't out run a skulk few reasons why not, which all can be found in this thread.
If you can't see balance issues here, you really do not play aliens. And finally skulks are most effective on ground, and walls, thinking any marine can out run a dog like alien we sure are playing some amazing futuristic game.
If you make marines sprint any slower then the difference between sprinting and walking will hardly be noticeable.
The point of skulks is to stop marines expanding, now in the early game killing them won't actually make much difference, they'll respawn back at base with the same gun they started with, or with plenty of plasma to buy another shotgun. Killing them doesn't stop them or cost them anything other than time.
If they have to run back to base, you have achieved the same result, they have to spend time getting back to base and healed up, they probably have to spend MORE time running than they would respawning, so chasing them off is probably the better option.
Once killing marines starts to matter, you should have fades, lerks, and running leap to kill them with.
Not being able to kill marines if they run away in the early game is not something I think is an issue.
The skill based movement would basically mean that skulks could move at noticeably higher speeds than just the 0.4 margin they've got compared to the sprint right now.
Really it's risk vs reward. Many people take the risk, but don't consider the reward. If he's got some expensive, high-tier stuff and you want to get rid of that, then sure, take the risk. But if he's a vanilla marine with a rifle, what are you really pursuing him for? The KDR? Putting him in the spawn queue for 15 seconds? You sure as hell don't get resources from it.
Now, it's fine, if the game you're making is simply Combat where kills are absolutely necessary, but since this is a strategy game as well, you have to consider it from that perspective. There's nothing wrong with a more combat-oriented game where kills do matter more, we all enjoy that. It is, however, up to the developers to decide whether they're going to encourage kills or simply breaking forces; but currently, it's the latter.
Switch to secondary weapon or axe?
It still amounts to shooting skulks until they get close and then dying.
Having the option to run away and maybe lure a skulk into a less advantageous position is a quite versatile option.
Marines can't sprint on infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't mind this. If the Marine makes it back to "human territory" then he should be able to get away. Unless a Gorge lays a sticky trap for him :D
I don't think marine sprint speed itself is the problem, it's just how the other things are balanced. I don't like the Leap situation as it is now. I always forget that skulks have to buy it, so I haven't gotten full Leap once in a real game.
Blink is also a problem. The Fades need more control over how they move, but I have to admit I like the Nightcrawler poofs. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Fade's blink return to NS1, but I'd make one change: the Fade stays invisible whenever the ability is activated. What I mean by that, is the moment you click the mouse, the Fade poofs out. The moment you let go of the mouse button (or run out of energy), he poofs back in. Other than that, the fade plays just like NS1.
Really it's risk vs reward. Many people take the risk, but don't consider the reward. If he's got some expensive, high-tier stuff and you want to get rid of that, then sure, take the risk. But if he's a vanilla marine with a rifle, what are you really pursuing him for? The KDR? Putting him in the spawn queue for 15 seconds? You sure as hell don't get resources from it.
Now, it's fine, if the game you're making is simply Combat where kills are absolutely necessary, but since this is a strategy game as well, you have to consider it from that perspective. There's nothing wrong with a more combat-oriented game where kills do matter more, we all enjoy that. It is, however, up to the developers to decide whether they're going to encourage kills or simply breaking forces; but currently, it's the latter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly the point, this seems more like a complaint about the lack of their kill ratio then actual game play balance. You do realize that if Marines CAN'T advance they lose right? So if Marines are RUNNING the Aliens are WINNING. You don't have to see a number next to your name in order to feel like you achieved something, if you made him run from you especially.. as a skulk which is sad in itself then you have already won even if you don't get that stat you seem to care a lot about. Also as it's been stated before you CAN catch them with leap since the PROOF and facts SHOW that the leap speed is far greater then skulk, even the marine sprint is 6.0 and skulk running is 6.2 which is FASTER by default. How is this possibly a serious complaint.. I mean if anything Aliens need to be nerfed considering the FACTS prove Aliens are winning MORE games, yet all these post are constantly about nerfing the.. losing team?? How is this sensible? Yeah, things have changed with the latest patch and DI but lets wait for those facts to come in, I'm sure it dropped the Alien win ratio down but we don't know yet.
All true until flamethrowers enter the picture. I think the flamethrower should be disabled until they make it what it should be. Give us something else to whet our appetites, in the meantime. Like the exo.
2. not read this thread
3.no idea what you're talking about
pick one which ever defines you.
to your question of why a marine shouldn't out run a skulk few reasons why not, which all can be found in this thread.
If you can't see balance issues here, you really do not play aliens. And finally skulks are most effective on ground, and walls, thinking any marine can out run a dog like alien we sure are playing some amazing futuristic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play aliens all the time. I have no trouble killing marines, because I attack them from the sides or above or ambush them from around corners like you are supposed to as an alien. If you're chasing a sprinting marine back to his base, you're just as likely to run into another marine who shotguns you in the face.
Also, as numerous people have mentioned in this thread, a retreating marine is effectively the same as a dead marine. If they aren't advancing on your territory, they are losing.
Hijack thread momentarily:
+1
i've been thinking that this is how they should have done it from the beginning, giving you proper "setup" or "orientation" time to spin around and find the enemy in a ghostlike state, then re appear with claws ready.. all the while draining your energy.. (maybe even exponentially when your in that ghost state to encourage faster setup times.)
this also works in retreat mode so you're not running into ###### walls every time..
/Hijacking
+1
i've been thinking that this is how they should have done it from the beginning, giving you proper "setup" or "orientation" time to spin around and find the enemy in a ghostlike state, then re appear with claws ready.. all the while draining your energy.. (maybe even exponentially when your in that ghost state to encourage faster setup times.)
this also works in retreat mode so you're not running into ###### walls every time..
/Hijacking<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I approve of this hijack.
Blink targeting also needs a lot more work. It is not working correctly when the cursor is pointed straight at an enemy, forcing the Fade to target off target. Also, it is impossible to blink to the opposite side of the target (needed when chasing a target).