Building Structures with all MACs together
Pat (GER)
Join Date: 2010-12-13 Member: 75646Members
Join Date: 2010-12-13 Member: 75646Members
Comments
Imagine a commander send a Macstack to alien mainhive and plant an instand build observatory, triggers the beacon (while the marines are waiting in the mainbase) and plants while the beacon is running an instand amory and some instand turrets..
Tha aliens don't have any chance to counter the attack
Same goes for repairing stuff. A skulk spends about 30 seconds to kill an extractor. If the commander sends a macstack even if the extractor is down to 1% it will be instand repaired.
In my opinion they should limit the amount of working MACs to one per building.
Better yet, use <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/</a> as it is more likely to be seen.
Definitely a good idea, and one of the things I noticed was "wrong".
Imagine a commander send a Macstack to alien mainhive and plant an instand build observatory, triggers the beacon (while the marines are waiting in the mainbase) and plants while the beacon is running an instand amory and some instand turrets..
Tha aliens don't have any chance to counter the attack
Same goes for repairing stuff. A skulk spends about 30 seconds to kill an extractor. If the commander sends a macstack even if the extractor is down to 1% it will be instand repaired.
In my opinion they should limit the amount of working MACs to one per building.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Macstack is definitely a problem...
But, I can get a load of score when I kill a group of them by myself :D
Also, another problem with the MAC is that the commander can just send them off the side of the map where it is safe. This needs to be fixed. It is very unfair.
macs should be limited to certain number (3 or less)
macs should not be able to stack to increase building/fixing
macs should not fly through walls or hide under objects
also macs move faster than skulks even
SCVs can't multi-build though.
This would remove the constraint of having to select macs, then select the structure to build. Now for repair, it would still require an order.
It's just an idea though.
this is a gameplay feature, marines have to escort and guard macs
True, but that's not a rule of RTSs. Others allow multiple units to build at the same time (I'm thinking Empire Earth specifically).
My biggest issue with MACs/Drifters at the moment is that you have too few in the early game and too many in the late game. I'd like to see some sort of high cap (like 10 per captured tech node) combined with starting with 2-3 free MACs again, similar to how the alien commander starts with 3 drifters.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. MACs aren't destroyed when used, Drifters are. Drifters can't multi-build either. Marine rush-building is already a problem, giving the marines three starting MACs would just make it worse.
I like the idea of limit of one MAC per CC, a lot. I've gradually realised that MAC stacks are detracting the intended claustrophobic atmosphere of NS2. It's almost comical to see a huge ball or congo line of MACs floating around, oblivious to the aliens they pass, and repair a Power Node in seconds.
couldn't of said it better. this is great idea.
-reduce mac stacking
-marines will finally guard macs
-commander will depend on marines more to do things
-commander will more careful with his mac
-more reasons to hold second CC, currently holding second CC aside from the upgrades and recycle is worthless
more good reasons can be added, but you get the picture. its something I've been saying for long while now, but current pro commanders (mac stackers) will not like this. haha
One alternative to limiting one MAC per structure (which I personally don't think should happen), is to apply the law of diminishing returns. For example, 2 macs will not build/repair at 2x the speed of 1 mac, the speed will be lower. Similarly, 4 macs will not build/repair at 2x the speed of 2 macs, the speed will be lower.
You could simply apply a geometric series.
Speed = sum(a*r^(i-1), for i=1,...,n)
a = base speed
r = ratio (0 < r < 1)
n = number of MACs
e.g. a base speed of 1, r = 0.8
one MAC:
1*1 = 1
two MACs:
1*1 + 1*0.8 = 1.8
three MACs:
1*1 + 1*0.8 + 1*0.8*0.8 = 2.44
four MACs:
1*1 + 1*0.8 + 1*0.8*0.8 + 1*0.8*0.8*0.8 = 2.952
r = 0.8 does look to be too high. r = 0.5 could be too low (speed = 1.875 for 4 macs).
Restricting it to one per CC doesn't sound like a real fix, it sounds like a hack and it is, but the goal should be to make them worth <i>something</i>.
I think this starts with having them cost actual resources instead of being an energy based thing. and probably not even a small about of res, but a real hit so the commander will focus on keeping it, and won't make too many since they'll be more difficult to guard.
Alternatively you could make it cost a lot of PR... Say 30. A dedicated commander doesn't do much with his anyway. Or have they switched medpacking and ammo to PR?
If you go this route, then you also need to buff MAC health. Pretty much the reason why I don't think MAC stacking that big a problem is because they die so easily. About 5 bites from a skulk will kill one, so I've seen and personally gone through serious MAC stacks (4+) in under 30s. The bigger problem is the noclipping/hiding in map geometry/structures. My guess is that is the root of most of the issues people have with current MACs.
i'm guessing you enjoy almost instant building and repairing everything under few seconds, right? you feel that makes you good commander? you feel that's what commanding should be about? You don't want to depend on your marines, why should you right? you can build anything you want on your own, right? You can easily spam the macs, and have them do everything for you, it feels great, you feel no balance problems with this? Although you are right about one thing, hiding macs under objects and inside walls isn't good at all, this must be fixed and I'm sure it will.
my guess the root of the problem is people like you commanding and ruin game play. How can anybody enjoy a game where everything is done within seconds or having hardly ever depending on marines? I've enjoyed reading 6john comments, and I really wish you read them again, its fair system and makes the commander strongly depend on his marines as he should be. I'm sure as the game progresses it might change later, at least I hope, lol.
my guess the root of the problem is people like you commanding and ruin game play. How can anybody enjoy a game where everything is done within seconds or having hardly ever depending on marines? I've enjoyed reading 6john comments, and I really wish you read them again, its fair system and makes the commander strongly depend on his marines as he should be. I'm sure as the game progresses it might change later, at least I hope, lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually have nice balance between MACs and marines building structures. I just think its a good thing to not require marines to constantly stay behind to build structures. I hardly see how that ruins NS2 gameplay. I depend on my marines to attack and clear alien territory, not be base-monkies.
the reason why you hardly see how that ruins ns2 is because I doubt you commanded in ns1 or maybe weren't good? commanding has been dumbed-down since macs were added into the game. You replacing marines with macs, and marines for turrets, you see no problem here? you seem to enjoy not depending on marines to build, because mac stacking is the only thing you know, because its EASY. I don't think you care much about balance to justify mac stacking.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not but if you are, kindly slam your face against the nearest desk to simulate me punching your nose.
I also liked the 1 MAC per CC idea, there should be some consequences for not having your marines covering your MACs.