Gorge Abilities
measles
Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Gorge definately needs a stronger role. Spamming hydra is not much fun</div>
As it stands, I don't think Gorge has a very strong role,
Currently it's ablities are as follows;
Spit - Near useless, it's nothing more than nausiating for a marine
Slide - Helpful, but not as useful as one might like, given that it only works in a forward direction
Heal and Hydra - The healing ability is barely being used at the frontlines. In any game wherein the alien team is in with a chance, it is because of crags placed in forward positions, allowing for advance. And the hydra are getting to much placement.. What more can a gorge do?
I have seen a few unique ideas dropped here and there, but if we can 'centralize' the ideas we have for Gorge I think that might be more useful!
As it stands, I don't think Gorge has a very strong role,
Currently it's ablities are as follows;
Spit - Near useless, it's nothing more than nausiating for a marine
Slide - Helpful, but not as useful as one might like, given that it only works in a forward direction
Heal and Hydra - The healing ability is barely being used at the frontlines. In any game wherein the alien team is in with a chance, it is because of crags placed in forward positions, allowing for advance. And the hydra are getting to much placement.. What more can a gorge do?
I have seen a few unique ideas dropped here and there, but if we can 'centralize' the ideas we have for Gorge I think that might be more useful!
Comments
I recall a video of a gorge frilling it's neck out to create some kind of bone sheild.
Only Gorge can 'command'..?
The 'hive mind' is a sensitive organ, and does not interface with it's clawed underlings.
Oh!
And 'corpse explosion', like they have in diablo 2. Wasn't my idea to add that to gorge but I like it!
Like, as an upgrade or something..?
e.g.
Spit that passes through flame catches fire and sets target marine alight ^^)
As for other suggestions, the only thing I'd like to see with the gorge is its spit attack do high damage against structures. It would make gorges valuable in an attack, but would encourage them to not take on marines.
1.bring back self-heal
2.remove being rooted into the floor while building or spreading infestation
3.allow the gorge to drop RTs
4. bile bomb needs to return, which can be used to spread infestation through the splash it does, and since infestation suppose to damage marine buildings, gorges can have better offensive role. This ability can be unlocked through second hive or be researched once second hive is up.
Ability to build eggs that aliens can spawn from. Allows dead attackers to respawn closer to the human base, which should make it easier to keep the pressure up. Possibly let the Gorge eggs act similarily to NS1's Redemption?
Increase the amount of healing that Gorge infestion does by quite a bit. Gorge infestation can't connect to Hive/Commander infestation, so it dies after a while. Basically a stronger, temporary Crag.
Buff the hydras and remove the res cost, but limit their lifespan and/or how many active hydras each player can have.
The idea is for Gorges to be able to set up kind of a forward outpost at the front lines to support the other troops.
Perhaps also allow alien players to somehow choose their egg?
Thumbs up for Nilar's ideas.
It's been so long since I've played NS1 I forgot all about web, lol.
Something I have always expected of the gorg is an ability to stick to walls ceilings;
Again I ask, was there a plan to give gorge a defensive stance?
NOWAI!
I'm hoping for some quick tweaks. For starters, Spit projectile is terribly slow, at 25 damage per hit for 50 DPS, it is quite useless. The Gorge's health is also on the low side, for a class that needs to be quite close to marines to be useful (healing spray).
Perhaps priorty notifications of Gorge activitys to the hive would help this issue, visa-versa..
Gorge healing itself is a moot point when, given it current role, should not have to stray to far from a crag.
1) instead of just being able to place down hydras, the gorge could have access to a range of small structures, such as different types of mines which can damage or incapacitate marines (covering marines in bile that momentarily blinds them, ensnaring them in sticky web like tendrils which severely hinder movement for a certain amount of time, releasing a large cloud of toxic, inky gas, similar to the lerk spore cloud but larger and longer lasting making an area momentarily impassable etc). these would be single use of course and would either glow, make a subtle noise or convulse grotesquely to give alien allies a heads up when marines are closing in on the immediate area. This would also warn marines of their presence, giving them a chance to find and take them out before they detonate, as well as forcing the gorge to be creative and sneaky with mine placement.
2) As far as i'm aware, the alien team has no way of recycling buildings, this looks like a job for the gorge! he could move towards a building and instead of healing it, he could decide to recycle it. This would not be instantaneous and the gorge could get a bit of personal res as a reward.
3) i'm also aware that UWE intends to (or was going to) implement a new visual feature into the alien structure's building process. Instead of the drifter magically turning straight into the intended structure, it was (or is planed to) morph into an egg-like structure called an incubator,
<a href="http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78140" target="_blank">http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78140</a>
it's the bottom picture. Basically my idea is that when a building is in this early stage, i't needs a gorge to "tend" to it to make sure it grows, once it reaches a certain point in construction (maybe 25%) the building "hatches" and continues to grow by itself normally until fully developed. The gorge can choose to stay and accelerate it's growth or move on somewhere else.
Well, i hope you found these ideas interesting.
The gorge healspray is nearly op (but only nearly), I sometimes gorge, and when i do, i use it a lot.
I heal to place di at a corner near enemy base (I replace this often during the game as it dies quickly), then I drop 1-3 hydras there.
I can make them finish faster by healing them, and they now serve as defence for me (attack marines, block bullets), while I can heal any dmg they get.
Often I pair up with a fade, who attack the marine base to kill sentries, then retreat where I heal him quickly.
If a marine decides to try and attack me, the fade usually helps, but otherwise I still got hydras, and my healspray does dmg to marines who try to get close enough to hit me instead of the hydras.
No need to spam hydras, tbh I find the addition of rfk having balanced the whole hydra spamming issue. If you are a gorge for a whole round, then you wont earn much plasma, just enough.
The only redundant ability for the gorge imho, is the spit. And that might be because I am not very good with it. Hopefully it gets some new function as well, or some other sort of tweak.
1) instead of just being able to place down hydras, the gorge could have access to a range of small structures, such as different types of mines which can damage or incapacitate marines (covering marines in bile that momentarily blinds them, ensnaring them in sticky web like tendrils which severely hinder movement for a certain amount of time, releasing a large cloud of toxic, inky gas, similar to the lerk spore cloud but larger and longer lasting making an area momentarily impassable etc). these would be single use of course and would either glow, make a subtle noise or convulse grotesquely to give alien allies a heads up when marines are closing in on the immediate area. This would also warn marines of their presence, giving them a chance to find and take them out before they detonate, as well as forcing the gorge to be creative and sneaky with mine placement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This I like. I would also add that gorges should be able to shoot a hydra a certain distance in an arc, to get hydras on ceilings and walls, or right up next to a marine. Maybe hydras could have a shotgun style attack, to make them more effective at closer ranges, esp. for shotgunners.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) As far as i'm aware, the alien team has no way of recycling buildings, this looks like a job for the gorge! he could move towards a building and instead of healing it, he could decide to recycle it. This would not be instantaneous and the gorge could get a bit of personal res as a reward.
3) i'm also aware that UWE intends to (or was going to) implement a new visual feature into the alien structure's building process. Instead of the drifter magically turning straight into the intended structure, it was (or is planed to) morph into an egg-like structure called an incubator,
<a href="http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78140" target="_blank">http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78140</a>
it's the bottom picture. Basically my idea is that when a building is in this early stage, i't needs a gorge to "tend" to it to make sure it grows, once it reaches a certain point in construction (maybe 25%) the building "hatches" and continues to grow by itself normally until fully developed. The gorge can choose to stay and accelerate it's growth or move on somewhere else.
Well, i hope you found these ideas interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't like these other two.
2) a griefer gorge could just recycle everything, gg.
3) it feels like you're just arbitrarily making what should be one person's job (commander OR gorge) into a two-person job (commander AND gorge). The marines don't have any equivalent that would take at least one other person out of the fight.
2) a griefer gorge could just recycle everything, gg.
3) it feels like you're just arbitrarily making what should be one person's job (commander OR gorge) into a two-person job (commander AND gorge). The marines don't have any equivalent that would take at least one other person out of the fight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, then again marine buildings don't self construct, a marine needs to be there to build the structure, unless the commander has access to MACS from a robotics factory, this takes a marine partially out of play. The Gorge only has to build up to 10%-25%, once this happens the incubator hatches and the structure continues to build by it's self, so the Gorge is only temporarily occupied. This could only apply for the start of the game, and self constructing buildings that don't need gorge assistance at all could be an upgrade the alien commander could research. This incubator tending idea would only concern medium size structures like Whips and Shades, doing this for Hydras would be stupidly unnecessary and i cant imagine a hive spawning out of an egg, can you? :/
As for "Griefer Gorges", i completely agree. When i re-think about it, this would probably happen and with the Shift being implemented (eventually ¬_¬), i guess this ability would be rendered mostly useless, don't like that Crage there? Why recycle it when you can move it to your desired destination? This could also be used to grief, with some troll entering another hive and commandeering the commander's structures with Shifts just "For teh lulz", UWE could implement a system where the only structures you can play around with are your own and that you can't tamper with anyone else's in anyway whatsoever, except for helping them grow faster. They could implement a similar feature with Gorges recycling buildings, an alien commander could select one of his structures and mark it to be recycled, only then can a Gorge player approach the building and "devour" it, otherwise the only thing they can do is either heal it or smother it with Hydras. This would probably solve the griefing problem, however they'd probably just go back to mindlessly spamming Hydras in an attempt to lag out or crash the server... god damn trolls!
Useless?
Pah!
I use Gorge all the time, and I get way more kills using the heal spray than I would if I was using a skulks bite! The trick to it is perfecting your bouncing/bunny hopping technique.
I really like this idea, this concept could be an easier solution to the gorge's lack of mobility and it takes advantage of the Hydra's ability to be placed on any surface (wall, ceiling etc). However the Gorge would be unable to heal Hydras placed like this, not a problem though, this could be some kind of a trade, strategic positioning over ability to heal them. As for the Hydra shotgun attack, that could be an upgrade you could give to your hydras; more health than a regular Hydra and devastating closeup, but short ranged making it virtually useless at long range due to being notoriously inaccurate.
Why stop there, why not have more variations? A Gorge could upgrade a Hydra to be some kind of sniper tower, it could only have one tendril instead of three, very long range and have precise, strong attacks but a very slow rate of fire and have difficulty hitting fast moving targets, effective against marines in exosuits and heavy armour but vulnerably to marines with jetpacks and weak closeup; curling into a ball when engaged in close quarters,not being able to take a lot of damage and only capable of firing in one direction. Maybe a Gorge could upgrade a Hydra to shoot webs, which do no damage, mediocre range and have a slow-medium rate of fire but slow down advancing enemies almost to a halt, momentarily ensnaring up to 2-3 marines at a time making them easy prey for other Hydras and alien classes/structures.
What if a Gorge could upgrade his Hydra to shoot large globs of acid like a mortar; again, it would have a slow rate of fire and the projectile would be easily avoidable by faster units, however it would do a large amount of damage to armoured units (ARC, buildings) and would also do splash damage. It's projectiles would arc in the air allowing it to hit unseen targets taking refuge behind cover, and when the globs of acid hit, it would do large amounts of damage to marines, striping them of most of their armour and covering them in acid that would continue to harm them (medium-heavy damage to armour, light damage to health), before leaving a pool of acid and infestation behind, damaging anyone standing in it, forcing marines to move. However it would do no damage to the marines health until all of his armour had been melted away, only then would the acid do light damage to the marine's health.
Ultimately, these would need to be researched by the alien commander who would need a hive mass and a hive colony for certain Hydras. Also, i think it would be overbalanced if a Gorge could build all of these Hydras, perhaps each Gorge is limited to building a regular Hydra, and then upgrading it to which ever specialized hydra it chose before evolving into a Gorge, forcing players to band together in order to building effective fortifications of an area. To conclude, the marines could just counter all these Hydras with grenade launchers, forcing Gorges to rely on the other alien classes for assistance.
What if Gorge can grow a gas pocket thing that blocks Marine's line-of-sight? It would appear as an opening in the infestation that gas/spores continuously comes out of, and several well-placed gas nodes could obscure vision into a hallway. Imagine entire hallways covered in heavy fog, where Marines can use flashlight to pierce through the fog slightly and Kharaa can see them perfectly using alien vision (and Hive Sight on infestation).
I'm quite liking these ideas for gorge abilities overall.
But I still can't agree with arbitrarily making the gorge required for building or recycling. I think it makes things clunky, and leads to some problems.
on the other hand, i think the Gorge should become more of an all-round class. currently it's a jack of all trades but useless at all of them. given that you pay 10 resources for being a Gorge, i think it should be stronger.
Building idea:
the Gorge should be able to build a series of structures which can aid others.
Oozer:
the Oozer is a structure which generates a cloud of toxin and (an upgrade) Bacteria. cost: 8 resources. the gas periodically refreshes, like once every 15 seconds, and lingers for 30. this means that after an oozer is destroyed, the gas will linger for some time. the
Purpose: Sneaky area denial. you'll want to put this behind a wall, and deny access to the room that way. unlike hydras, which "just" do a ranged attack, the Oozer creates a damage barrier.
when upgraded, the Bacteria will heal nearby Aliens
BumbleBomb.
an egg-like structure, the Bumblebomb can be pushed by players, roll down a slope and explode in a shower of acid and infestation. heals Aliens, does damage to players. does both Direct damage and DOT.
Egg:
works just like any other egg. the Gorge can build eggs, and can choose to make it Personal or Universal. self-explanatory. costs, say, 15 resources.
yes this allows easy reinforcements. on the other side, it requires resources, something you'll need as a gorge to keep building Hydras, Bumblebombs and Oozers.
given that the Aliens have no form of quick transport like the Marines (yes the Aliens ARE faster), this seems like a nice trade-off. you get points for letting others spawn at your egg.
making the Gorge required for building is silly in the current build. the reason is that, in a game of, say, 3 versus 3, the Marines can toss down some buildings and the Commander can leave and help build. but if Gorges are needed, you need 1 weaker unit to build the stuff whereas the stronger basic fighters can't build.
the Gorge should be a unit to build stationary and mobile area denial and supportive weapons. one successful Gorge should be able to change a battle, when the Marines storm in and find out the entire chamber is toxic and it mysteriously heals the Aliens as well.
If you want to buff the Gorge in combat, make heal spray hurt more.
If you want to buff the Gorge in combat, make heal spray hurt more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea is to push each alien class into a specific role. The problem with the gorge is that he's not supposed to be an offensive class, that role is for the Skulk, Fade and the Onos. The gorge should be in more of a defensive/support role. Here is how it comes across to me; the Onos is effectively like the tank from "Left 4 dead" in that it's the Onos' job to smash through marine defenses, stomp straight in and create as much chaos and confusion as possible before he is focused down. The Skulk is your scout and basic alien infantry unit, the Lerk (being a support class) hangs back, sporing and sniping from a distance, whilst the Fade is the "surgical strike" unit, blinking into the enemy base or behind some turrets and running circles around groups of marines, separating them for skulks to chew on. Meanwhile, the Gorge (being the builder) would capitalize on the alien team's push by fortifying invaded territory with defensive chambers, offensive chambers, sensory chambers etc.
However, the Gorge cant do any of this now, he has been usurped by the alien commander. All he can do now is heal, spit (useless) and place Hydras. Sure, he has bile bomb and can spread infestation (or croach), however he only places a small amount of croach that only lasts for about 30 seconds, the hydra concept feels limited and the bile bomb will only encourage the gorge players to be even more aggressive. I can see what U.W.E is attempting to do (move the Gorge from a base building unit to a battle maggot unit) and i like it, i just feel that they need to put more thought into what the Gorge could do, now that he isn't tied down with base building.
They could expand so much onto what they already have, the Gorge could build different types of hydras, or/and different types of mines to support the alien commander in defending claimed territory. He could have abilities that buff his alien allies (increase strength, increased attack speed, damage resistance, momentary invulnerability, momentary infinite energy etc) that could be A.O.E or specific like his heal spray, supporting aliens in dealing with marines just like the Lerk, except indirectly as apposed to directly. The Gorge shouldn't be there to 1v1 marines, that task is already taken, instead he should be there to tip the balance in favor for the alien that is going toe to toe with the marine. He could be in charge of "maturing" alien structures (i believe he already dose this?) and impair marines in some way, making them easier to kill. Instead of damaging marines with his heal spray, he should slow them down or block their vision with patches of infestation, like "mud men" from "left 4 dead 2".
In conclusion, the gorge should be a defensive/support class that can place Hydras, mines and other structures that capitalize and compliments the alien commander's defenses, he can support aliens in assaults with buffs and other abilities that make marines more vulnerable but cant kill marines himself, (spit being more of an harassment tool) therefor relying on other aliens for help, otherwise he can impede marines by partially blinding/slowing them, increasing his chances of escape. Also, i feel that the Gorge shouldn't be able to self heal on the fly, instead he could huddle into a ball and self heal that way.
Oh my god, Gorge should turn into Sonic and bowl over Marines!!
The alien commander could upgrade the Gorge to have seven chaos emeralds and turn SUPER GORGE!!! >_<
...what? ...too soon?