An alien perspective about the revised Tram map
Game-Sloth
Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76371Members
Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76371Members
<b>Door between alien start and alien expansion should be removed</b>
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I have played several games on the new Tram map and feel that the new alien expansion in the server room may be too far. Additionally, the lockable door between alien start and new alien expansion (server room) makes it difficult for aliens to successfully cover both hives in early game.
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<b>The second resource point near alien start (old alien expansion) needs to be moved against a wall</b>
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->The room is so large that marines can simply sprint around in circles avoiding hydra spikes and out running aliens as they take down the harvester.
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Other than these two items, I actually like how the new changes balance out the east side of the Tram tunnel forcing aliens to make a stronger push for control of central. I also like the fact that the new location gives marines time before DI infests double res.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Note: These comments were also submitted through map annotation system</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I have played several games on the new Tram map and feel that the new alien expansion in the server room may be too far. Additionally, the lockable door between alien start and new alien expansion (server room) makes it difficult for aliens to successfully cover both hives in early game.
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>The second resource point near alien start (old alien expansion) needs to be moved against a wall</b>
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->The room is so large that marines can simply sprint around in circles avoiding hydra spikes and out running aliens as they take down the harvester.
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Other than these two items, I actually like how the new changes balance out the east side of the Tram tunnel forcing aliens to make a stronger push for control of central. I also like the fact that the new location gives marines time before DI infests double res.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Note: These comments were also submitted through map annotation system</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Comments
Some stuff I used annotation system to report (in 168 iirc):
the vent you can enter in alien main where the extractor used to be located is a bit inwards then down, but cant be climbed back up as a skulk, unless you are persistent about it.
The vent in center tech room that thats the closest to alien main, lags ALOT when you turn on alien vision
marine roof is hard to navigate, as the iron beams are invisible from above.
The biggest problem is actually the players. Aliens whine a lot about the map, but that's because they fight in the open too much. There are many good vents and hiding places that you can use, and that makes a big difference. Aliens also need a good commander that builds up stuff quickly.
But I've had some pretty epic games on Tram. Good stuff. Alien wins usually take a long time unless you do a base IP rush. Bad thing is it gets so laggy with all the structures and DI the aliens build during an Alien win. Wish hydras could be recycled so areas behind the front lines could be cleared out to help with lag.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I have played several games on the new Tram map and feel that the new alien expansion in the server room may be too far. Additionally, the lockable door between alien start and new alien expansion (server room) makes it difficult for aliens to successfully cover both hives in early game.
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>The second resource point near alien start (old alien expansion) needs to be moved against a wall</b>
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->The room is so large that marines can simply sprint around in circles avoiding hydra spikes and out running aliens as they take down the harvester.
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Other than these two items, I actually like how the new changes balance out the east side of the Tram tunnel forcing aliens to make a stronger push for control of central. I also like the fact that the new location gives marines time before DI infests double res.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Note: These comments were also submitted through map annotation system</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to make adjustments to a map, maybe you should make your own map..?
Or you can be constructive and learn to play the maps AS THEY ARE.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113021&hl=" target="_blank">Strategies on TRAM</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1838087:date=Mar 21 2011, 09:05 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 21 2011, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1838087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm actually not a fan of the lockable doors at the moment. It does more to hinder marine movement than alien movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Door's are awesome.
You'll learn to appreciate them.
Or you can be constructive and learn to play the maps AS THEY ARE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BETA is about testing a release and providing feedback.
I have provided what I feel is constructive concerns about recent design changes after playing multiple games and talking to others.
It's up to Unknown Worlds to decide if my observations warrant changes.
I have provided what I feel is constructive concerns about recent design changes after playing multiple games and talking to others.
It's up to Unknown Worlds to decide if my observations warrant changes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you watch the last video?
Have you even attempted to use the 'editor'?
To make a small change like the falling egg took hours of work!
But for the sake of [thread topic] 'An alien perspective about the revised Tram map', I give you a <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The new map seems reasonably balanced me. The second node is incredibly easy to defend, IMO
The issue is the hydra, perhaps?
But then, it all depends on your placement..
<!--quoteo(post=1838154:date=Mar 21 2011, 03:43 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 21 2011, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1838154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you overclock your system? This sounds more like a stability system rather than anything NS2 specific.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who are you talking to?
Yes, I find Spark vastly easier than Hammer to use. It shows incredible potential.
Nevertheless, I think the map could improved with the suggested changes, you disagree.
As I said in the OP, I like the changes. Chill out.
There is a door? O.o
Or do you mean the door between alien start and server room?
<!--quoteo(post=1838050:date=Mar 20 2011, 12:39 PM:name=Game-Sloth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Game-Sloth @ Mar 20 2011, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1838050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>The second resource point near alien start (old alien expansion) needs to be moved against a wall</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1
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Also the bug where the marine commander can place turrets in the wall over the door at marine start has to be fixed.
It is just frustrating to be in alien team and have no chance to enter the marine base and thus are not able to win.
(even a Faderush (4 fades) was just gunned down by the turrets and two marines with shotguns)
Marines will have to weld the door to fully seal it, I imagine against everything but the Onos.
Once this is all implemented I'm sure it'll be fine!
Nevertheless, I think the map could improved with the suggested changes, you disagree.
As I said in the OP, I like the changes. Chill out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is there a way you can do an edit of the map and submit it for approval?
I do understand what you are saying to a degree.
Are you taking into account the value of a frontiersman life to the value of the Kharaa underling?
I mean.. Do you find that most of the alien team are of in the distance many metres away away from the DI on solo missions while a singular or two marines are attacking expansion harvester?
Team 2: Kharaa; was always mmeant for the more expeirienced players, or atleast that is what it said in the 'auto_help1 on NS1..
Another thing to be aware of is that a future revision of the map will have an obstructed section in the tunnels next to the alien start's south entrance, which will prevent marines from passing through but will allow skulks, lerks etc, this should have pretty significant consequences for balance in this area.
Also eggs don't spawn at the hive if placed in Marine expansion. That similarly makes the alien endgame harder since they can't spawn there, despite owning it.
I think the use of the tram tunnel to separate the ying-yang of resource rich (west side) verses tech rich (east side) is brilliant.
<!--quoteo(post=1838276:date=Mar 21 2011, 06:54 PM:name=Olmy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olmy @ Mar 21 2011, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1838276"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another thing to be aware of is that a future revision of the map will have an obstructed section in the tunnels next to the alien start's south entrance, which will prevent marines from passing through but will allow skulks, lerks etc, this should have pretty significant consequences for balance in this area.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, don't waste your time even considering the door if you have plans for some type of tunnel obstruction.
Marines will have to weld the door to fully seal it, I imagine against everything but the Onos.
Once this is all implemented I'm sure it'll be fine!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is the vents, not the doors. Right now, if I lock the doors in trams, it only slightly hinders skulk movement while vastly hindering marines. If I could some lock/weld/block all entrances to a room then it would be worthwhile to do so. Only being able to close the doors is counterproductive in most situations.
measles: this is not "criticism", it is "feedback".
Also, remember that doors will prevent Larger Lifeforms from moving through them.
Eventually the Fade will be crawling through vents, but I can't imagine as quickly. The Onos sure won't.
Even then, I think it just adds a dynamic.
At the moment it is locked, but then it stays completely locked for the entirety of the time.
I could see it being used as a time saver.
For instance, locking or welding a door as you attack a hive. Making a longer route for the aliens for a small period.
Great to hear you involved in feedback Olmy, some good love for the devs round here and it is appreciated.
Tram has definitely improved since the game play has become more spread.
A few observations:
The tech node in the North East feels like it has been pushed back too far and is not becoming as significant in matches, or does not feel 'part of' the map. It is a good move, but feels too far out.
This is just a stylistic opinion, but for me the right hand side of the map is visually a lot more interesting. I really feel like double could be a lot more special somehow, perhaps it is just the lighting or something. Perhaps a bit of a level change, or windows leading through to another room to add depth on the west side?
The server room is very iconic, and works well with Observation all the way down the east of the map. Some great battles occur there, and it looks great.
Still hard to gauge things completely, because I find it hard to run Tram on my laptop.
Hope this helped.