NS2 Suggestions
xredx
Join Date: 2011-03-25 Member: 88463Members
Join Date: 2011-03-25 Member: 88463Members
First, above everything else, please downgrade this project to Alpha. This game is nowhere near beta. Incomplete features = alpha. Why does this matter you say? Here's a great reason it matters: I wouldn't pay money for an alpha game, ever. So, now Unknown Worlds has $40 of my dollars for a product thats feature incomplete and nearly unplayable at times--not exactly the "beta" testing I was looking for. Listing the game as beta is dishonest marketing.
Second, the servers are going to ruin this game. Forget fixing things like the flame thrower when the server coding causes inordinate amounts of lag. A multiplayer game is worthless without a solid server, you can have the prettiest graphics, or best game content ever made, but if the players can't have a smooth experience then whats the point? Sketchy servers guarantee that hosting companies will avoid your game like the plague (customer service nightmare) and will blockade a community from getting established.
Third, species balance should probably be looked at. Aliens should be fast and have very, very powerful melee weapons capable (capable, not guaranteed) of 1 hit kills, but also die themselves incredibly easily. Fades are far to hard to kill, and can engage or disengage from the fight at will, this combination makes them almost unstoppable in the hands of adept players.
On the topic of aliens, it would also be nice if there was a crosshairs to indicate exactly where the alien player should expect to aim and deliver hits.
Respectfully,
Red
Second, the servers are going to ruin this game. Forget fixing things like the flame thrower when the server coding causes inordinate amounts of lag. A multiplayer game is worthless without a solid server, you can have the prettiest graphics, or best game content ever made, but if the players can't have a smooth experience then whats the point? Sketchy servers guarantee that hosting companies will avoid your game like the plague (customer service nightmare) and will blockade a community from getting established.
Third, species balance should probably be looked at. Aliens should be fast and have very, very powerful melee weapons capable (capable, not guaranteed) of 1 hit kills, but also die themselves incredibly easily. Fades are far to hard to kill, and can engage or disengage from the fight at will, this combination makes them almost unstoppable in the hands of adept players.
On the topic of aliens, it would also be nice if there was a crosshairs to indicate exactly where the alien player should expect to aim and deliver hits.
Respectfully,
Red
Comments
Second, the servers are going to ruin this game. Forget fixing things like the flame thrower when the server coding causes inordinate amounts of lag. A multiplayer game is worthless without a solid server, you can have the prettiest graphics, or best game content ever made, but if the players can't have a smooth experience then whats the point? Sketchy servers guarantee that hosting companies will avoid your game like the plague (customer service nightmare) and will blockade a community from getting established.
Third, two words: species balance.
Respectfully,
Red<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh come on. not another one of this threads. thought we got over the alpha/beta definition discussion -.-
actually i think you did the mistake by comparing uwe to a AAA studio. they are not the same. just completed homefront the otherday. there were pages of devs that worked on the game(id guess nearly 100 people). in relation: on ns2 there are about 8 people. why dont you understand that? i dont get it ...
this discussion does not help anyone. the game will not procede any faster. if you cant handle that fact. forget about the game and come back in 10 monts or so.
btw... <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=84" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...hp?showforum=84</a> for suggestions ;)
Okay more on topic, if you're unhappy at your purchase contact store@unknownworlds.com
Equally, if you had searched the forums a bit further down or went to the help page ( <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/help/" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/help/</a> ) You could have got contact information there.
If you're just here for a bit of a whinge and moan, like someone has already said, it's been done. Let sleeping dogs lay.
First, I own servers that can handle NS2, but thats not the point. The point is, that the cost per client per server (in terms of system usage) is far too great, and the crashes far to prevalent to warrant any provider offering NS2 hosting. Unless you think the community is going to survive on cable modems, or that magically someone in the community is going to purchase a DS3 circuit and host their own servers, I really don't think the community is going to grow without fixing the server related problems.
The number of developers on a commercial product has no relevance to the customer's satisfaction. If you pay money for something expecting to receive A, but instead get B, thats wrong; it doesn't matter if you have 8 devs or 100 devs.
Okay more on topic, if you're unhappy at your purchase contact store@unknownworlds.com
Equally, if you had searched the forums a bit further down or went to the help page ( <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/help/" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/help/</a> ) You could have got contact information there.
If you're just here for a bit of a whinge and moan, like someone has already said, it's been done. Let sleeping dogs lay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, i was in vent with my buddy playin zombies and this griefer jumped in to harass us, he was talkin sh.t and he had my buddy fired up until he mentioned he was a hardcore wow player and that homefront was what you play if you want to get the ladies...
i laughed so hard.
Yes, there are performance issues and yes this is BETA.
There are a number of servers out there that are playable with 10 players with a reasonable amount of objects in play.
i laughed so hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WoW is what you play if you want to get the worst kind of ladies at the best of times, christ knows what Homefront would give you. Dwarf dwelling sociopaths!?!?
lol
I think its great. also read some reviews and I cant agree with them. best atmosphere since hl2 and in my opinion even better. gameplaywise its totally dumbed down, but thats just normal these days. so i didnt expect anything else.
<!--quoteo(post=1838802:date=Mar 25 2011, 02:56 PM:name=xredx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xredx @ Mar 25 2011, 02:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1838802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The number of developers on a commercial product has no relevance to the customer's satisfaction. If you pay money for something expecting to receive A, but instead get B, thats wrong; it doesn't matter if you have 8 devs or 100 devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes and no.
yes: you buy a standard product(cough bf,cod etc) done by hundred. published by a company earning millions. you recieve a finished game called beta.
no: you buy a revolutionary game, which actually brings new elements into a genre, done by few. financed by preorders. you can expect recieving a finished game called beta. but you will be disappointed. so think about what is realistic and think about reassess your expectations. or just do above mentioned by Thaldarin.
yes and no.
yes: you buy a standard product(cough bf,cod etc) done by hundred. published by a company earning millions. you recieve a finished game called beta.
no: you buy a revolutionary game, which actually brings new elements into a genre, done by few. financed by preorders. you can expect recieving a finished game called beta. but you will be disappointed. so think about what is realistic and think about reassess your expectations. or just do above mentioned by Thaldarin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beta is beta is beta, no matter how many developers there are. If something is "X" it doesn't magically become "Y" based on the number of developers there are.
In all seriousness red , the definition of a BETA has been skewed by the larger publishers to mean a near retail experience with some minor flaws ... that used to be a term for Demo's but for some reason releasing a crappy demo got players into believing the game was crap so publishers shy away from demo and use beta.
Its easy to say its a beta so thats why its crap.
NS 2 is a geniune Beta , work in progress and we get the chance to help shape it and mold it so its great at launch.
Complain all you like or need to but do remember its not the full product, its not what you paid for ...yet.
<a href="http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-alpha-and-beta-testing/" target="_blank">http://www.differencebetween.net/technolog...d-beta-testing/</a>
Summary:
"Alpha testing occurs before beta testing. Alpha testing clears out most of the major bugs in a program while beta testing is more like polishing the program. Alpha testing is often not open to the public while beta testing can often involve the public"
Or this: <a href="http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/alpha_version.html" target="_blank">http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/alpha_version.html</a>
This program hasn't even been finished being designed yet, major features are being redone/ still need to be added. This program is Alpha at best, if not Pre-Alpha. Beta testing is the FINAL round of testing to ensure a complete and working product, it does not exist to debug major flaws.
Using industry standard terms to misinform the public, which would likely otherwise not pay for your product, is dishonest. Complaining about dishonest marketing is not immature.
Exactly my point, they mislabeled this product as beta and got us involved.
get over it or try to get your money back -.-
btw. ever played ns1? if so. see your money spend as a late purchase of ns1. thats the way i see it. best game ive ever played. so i bought 3 copys to pay them back a bit :)
How about these other websites then:
<a href="http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/definition/beta-test" target="_blank">http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/...ition/beta-test</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_rele...cycle#Pre-alpha</a>
<a href="http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html" target="_blank">http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html</a>
<a href="http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm" target="_blank">http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test" target="_blank">http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test</a>
<a href="http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770" target="_blank">http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770</a>
Sorry, these 8 devs don't get to completely redefine an industry standard.
get over it or try to get your money back -.-
btw. ever played ns1? if so. see your money spend as a late purchase of ns1. thats the way i see it. best game ive ever played. so i bought 3 copys to pay them back a bit :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A) I'm sure they did use the label Beta to attract more buyers and seed money into the project. You're naive if you don't realize that they do sit around and strategize ways to get more money--they're a business, thats what businesses do.
B) I'm waiting a response for a refund.
Yep. Bought an SE copy for me plus 2 extras for my brother and father once the lag sorts out. Payed constellation back in NS1 even though I already had vet/pt icon anyway and would gladly do it again. Actually, no word of a lie I just donated another 20 bucks as of writing this (by signing up for constellation again which took some digging to find: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/constellation/)" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/constellation/)</a>. Odd though, here's a screen shot of the confirmation email I just got back:
<img src="http://www.devin-afshin.com/lazer/uwe_email_fail.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
???
A dev might want to look into that but I know I have CM already so no worries just trying to help.
There's no industry standard here. Sorry to hear you spent money without knowing what you'd get.
<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/11ns2_closed_beta_status+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/11ns2_closed_beta_status)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That said, I'd like to clarify something about the nature of the beta. People may remember the Starcraft 2 or Team Fortress 2 betas and use those to inform their idea of “betaâ€. Both of those games no doubt were heavily tested internally and for all intents and purposes were finished games. Our beta is neither of those things. Most game companies wouldn't release an actual beta [1] to the public, but we've decided to embrace the fact that we're a small studio with limited resources and we need to get all the feedback we and help we can from our community.
[...]
[1] Technically a beta is supposed to be feature complete. We haven't included everything that's planned or completed in the current release. Some of this stuff we'll be adding in future patches, and a few exciting things we're going to hold back on for the final release of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[...]
Sorry, these 8 devs don't get to completely redefine an industry standard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you actually read the links you linked here?
-> <a href="http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/definition/beta-test" target="_blank">http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/...ition/beta-test</a>
Totally applies to NS2 in the current state
-> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle</a>
Also here the "Beta" definition applies to NS2
-> <a href="http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html" target="_blank">http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html</a>
Partly applies
-> <a href="http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm" target="_blank">http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm</a>
Damn.. fits again
-> <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test" target="_blank">http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test</a>
Very rough definition, but also applies
-> <a href="http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770" target="_blank">http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770</a>
And another one ..
But seriously.. I really don't care.
If you buy something you usually check for what you buy, and there's tons of information around so you can see what you get, and it's not even hidden somewhere.
And if you then cry for a refund afterwards...
-> <a href="http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/definition/beta-test" target="_blank">http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/...ition/beta-test</a>
Totally applies to NS2 in the current state
-> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle</a>
Also here the "Beta" definition applies to NS2
-> <a href="http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html" target="_blank">http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html</a>
Partly applies
-> <a href="http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm" target="_blank">http://familyinternet.about.com/od/glossary/g/Beta_test.htm</a>
Damn.. fits again
-> <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test" target="_blank">http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-test</a>
Very rough definition, but also applies
-> <a href="http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770" target="_blank">http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=3770</a>
And another one ..
But seriously.. I really don't care.
If you buy something you usually check for what you buy, and there's tons of information around so you can see what you get, and it's not even hidden somewhere.
And if you then cry for a refund afterwards...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, sounds like you have a critical case of fanboyism. Symptoms are commonly indicated by a lack of critical thinking skills, and the inability to accept criticism or admit wrong. Let me break this down for you. For something to be a car it must have 4 wheels, an engine, a chassis, etc. If its missing some, or all of those things, its not a car. Just because you have 4 wheels and an engine, but you lack a chassis, doesn't mean you get to call whatever you have a car. The same logic applies in math, in science, and in this case, the definition of beta testing.
Link 1: "Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing."" -- This is obviously not the final pre-release testing.
Link 2: "It generally begins when the software is feature complete. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing." -- Its not feature complete.
Link 3: "the product has already passed through the first-level, internal pilot-test (alpha test) and glaring defects have been removed. But (since the product may still have some minor problems" -- Really all the glaring defects (hint: constant CTD's and server slideshow lag) have been removed? Are you telling me this game has only minor problems?
Link 4: "Typically, you can expect that by the beta test, the product will be usable," -- All I see when I play on different servers is how unplayable the game is...
Link 5: "The final stage in the testing" -- How can you final test something thats not even complete? Which takes us back to feature complete.
But also, since you must have missed the other post:
<a href="http://www.differencebetween.net/technolog...d-beta-testing/" target="_blank">http://www.differencebetween.net/technolog...d-beta-testing/</a>
Summary:
"Alpha testing occurs before beta testing. Alpha testing clears out most of the major bugs in a program while beta testing is more like polishing the program. Alpha testing is often not open to the public while beta testing can often involve the public"
And this: <a href="http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/alpha_version.html" target="_blank">http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/alpha_version.html</a>
"[Alpha Version] A very early version of a software product that may not contain all of the features that are planned for the final version."
If there's no industry standard then how do you suppose those terms carry any weight? As long as we're living in the land of make believe, why don't we just call this a release candidate?
I shouldn't even add to this potential toxic thread, but this just rubbed me the wrong way. This is actually fallacious logic. You're basing your argument on the theory that knowledge is predetermined, innate, and just needs retrieval through some means like language. However, there is plenty of research out there that will state the exact opposite. Under your argument, you're making a claim that their is a perfectly predefined notion of what a car is, something with 4 wheels, an engine, and a chassis. But what if the chassis is missing two passenger doors and a side mirror, is it still a car? Also what do you mean by a chassis? Is that two doors or four doors? What if it has three wheels because it lost one? Is it all of a sudden no longer a car? Just because you believe something is a car with all your heart, doesn't make it so; it's like saying a tree is a tree if it has a trunk, branches, and leaves; what if the tree looses all its leaves in the fall? Is it not a tree all of a sudden until spring comes around again then magically everyone conceives it as a tree again? Meaning is socially constructed; it isn't just sitting around awaiting someone to find and retrieve it.
So no, missing a chassis doesn't all of a sudden make a car not a car anymore because if you asked people what it was they would still tell you it is a car most likely.
Also, just because you have some idealistic and preconceived notion on what beta is doesn't make it is universally true either. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but arguing based on preconceived notions of this supposed idea of beta is also doesn't make it true either. From my numerous years of being a beta tester, this is beta to me. Maybe the industry is making a social shift in the meaning of the word, but to a lot of people this is still beta as they know it. Are they all of a sudden wrong too?
Your opinion of what a beta is differs from that of the devs. There's no right or wrong here, just lack of information on your part.
Right, 8 devs vs the industry--and we're the wrong ones.