Rework squads
ChrisJustinParr
Join Date: 2011-01-28 Member: 79359Members
Join Date: 2011-01-28 Member: 79359Members
Current system looks cool, where people change squads based on proximity, but the way it's set up, you don't feel any connection to your squad as a player. If anything you don't feel compelled to stick around with people after an intense firefight with someone you work well with, you cannot manually group with them. As a commander, you want to be able to recognize your squad for their attributes. You want to think 'I remember 15 minutes ago Red squad was really awesome at taking down hives before they all died. I'll put an offensive waypoint for those guys while everyone else will defend.'
Maybe have a squad interface like Battlefield 2, where you can make a new squad as a squad leader or join existing groups. Use the cool automatic proximity-squad feature only for players without squads.
Maybe have a squad interface like Battlefield 2, where you can make a new squad as a squad leader or join existing groups. Use the cool automatic proximity-squad feature only for players without squads.
Comments
And of course, also, that you don't know who are your squad mates.
1. You could have maybe a 30 second probation period.
A marine joins a squad, he is probationally assigned to that squad, but if he switches to another squad within that time, it resets the timer for him and he is probationally assigned to that other squad.
Now, if a marine stays with a group of marines for 30 seconds, he is 'permanently' assigned to that squad, regardless of if he wanders off or not.
But if he joins up with a different squad, he will require another 30 seconds to become assigned to that other squad, 'permanently' - but in this case there is no period of 'probational assignation', he'll still belong to his original squad for that 30 seconds.
2. An alternative is to take a mid-way approach between assigning/joining squads and dynamic squads.
Just as it is now, the game will have the automatic squad approach, but it will always be temporary. However, a commander can click a temporary squad (it will select all of the members), and click a button to assign them permanently. Now, they'll never be unassigned unless he unassigns them; they will also appear on the commander GUI so he can select them.
Two more situations:
A) A new player joins up with a previously assigned squad. He will remain as a temporary member, and the commander will have to click assign again and it will include him.
B) There are two assigned squads. A player from one assigned squad joins another, and he will be both a permanent member of the original squad and a temporary member of the new squad, and the commander will have to click assign again and it will include him.
To differentiate between a temporary member and a permanent member of a squad, you could change their colour - bolder colours (e.g. blue) for permanent members, and lighter, subdued accompanying colours (e.g. light blue) for temporary members.
I like this idea. Didn't quite understand the rest about probation but it seems complicated for new players to try to understand.
When leaving a dynamically-assigned squad there should be some brief HUD notification (a 5-second warning), but Commanders should be in charge of overriding/locking dynamic squad-assignments.
The thing is, as a player, it is frustrating to play and not have control over what you are doing. Just like how it is frustrating as a player to die without knowing what killed you or where it came from. The guys at Valve got it right when they made TF2 (although the game is not for me) because they wanted to minimize number of rage quits.
It would be much better if we just had commanders choose/randomize squad leaders, and players decide to join whatever group they feel like. If they don't want to choose a group, they get auto-assigned based on your 'probation'/proximity idea.
Having to ask your commander to put you in a group with your buddies and lock you into squads that you like whenever you feel it works is increasing commander micromanagement, and increasing player frustration
That's nowhere near what I was suggesting at all. In fact I'm suggesting the opposite: Keep things primarily automatic, through the 'flocking' mechanism. If you want to be in a squad with your friends, then roll with your friends. Simple. I was, however, attempting to tackle the issue of non-permanence with the current squad system; I do think my second idea was better: temporary (default) squads can be made permanent at the click of a button.
It would be much better if we just had commanders choose/randomize squad leaders, and players decide to join whatever group they feel like. If they don't want to choose a group, they get auto-assigned based on your 'probation'/proximity idea.
Having to ask your commander to put you in a group with your buddies and lock you into squads that you like whenever you feel it works is increasing commander micromanagement, and increasing player frustration<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is presuming that the Commander should necessarily listen to a player when he says, "No, no, I wanna hang out with NSPlayer2. Now I wanna hang out with PlayerX." That's not really what it's about. Squads exist to alleviate the frustration of micro-managing disorganized groups of units to perform specific tasks. A Commander should have the utmost control over squads, with some automatic system such as Harimau proposed to be an interim solution when a Commander cannot attend to squad-assignment.
But within dynamic squads, the squad leader should be the player with the highest score (that's their contribution to the team, not K:D ratio) until the Commander manually overrides this.
Truth be told, I think that even the temporary squads should have greater persistence (through death and distance) to some degree; but commander intervention will simply enforce persistence.
I mentioned my issues with the current system a while ago in I&S.
My thinking is that the dynamic squad system is great, and shouldn't change how it works in its fundamentals.
Assigning people to squads in this game is silly, because one minute you are with a few people, the next you see something attacking spawn and you run off, the next you are chasing a lerk down a hallway by yourself.
Trying to force people to stick together will not work.
I think what needs to happens is that when you 'merge' into a squad, the time it takes to leave the squad depends on the time spent within it.
So those who are playing well in close proximity have a 'time based' association, so for every minute you are with a squad it takes 2 to leave - or something similar.
So even if you die, you are still assigned to a group of people and can find your way back to them without effecting commander control.
At the moment I think it is hard for anyone to effectively select a squad or send them to a location, and players also can't find their squad on the map either.
Which would change when there are more gameplay emphasis on sticking with your squad. Like the Transponder, for example. Or preventing people from getting medpacks and ammo if they aren't near an allied structure or squad leader. Allow 1 Squad Leader for every 3 players, and make them the hub through which commanders get to the rest of his players.
i agree that squads should be permanent assignments made by the commander. select players (either by dragging a selection box over them or shift clicking them one at a time) and then assign them a squad color making it permanent until reassigned by commander. comm has the same squad color boxes up on screen but under them list the names of the players in that squad. clicking on the color box and then right clicking the map will assign a waypoint to the squad. clicking on a player in the squad and right clicking the map will assign a waypoint to the player. ctrl + 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 will shortcut the squad color assignment after selecting the players, and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 will be shortcuts for selecting the squad as a whole to then waypoint.
that's the squad selection that's used in many many rts games.
<ul><li> Squad Leaders are able to indicating short-term micro objectives (Follow Me, Attack this Point, Defend the Target, Build the Structure) to squad members, though the Commander's orders take precedence. Players can look to Squad Leaders for tactical guidance, and Commanders for strategic guidance.</li><li> The Infantry Portal Transponder will only allow you to teleport to a Squad Leader (perhaps parasite could inhibit this).</li><li> Only MACs, powered structures, power packs and squads emit a personal radius where structures/items can be dropped (the room still requires power for this). If this is too limited, apply it only to unpowered rooms.</li><li> Any player can call for medpack/ammo/orders, but medpacks and ammopacks can only be dropped within the previously mentioned radius.</li><li> The number of available squads would have to scale with max player number (1 Leader for every 3 players) or increase with capped Tech Points, but something would need to limit the number to avoid every player being a squad leader whom can be med/ammospammed.</li><li> The Commander can manually drag and drop players to and from squads (see the bottom left of the official <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008/5/unknown_worlds_podcast_24_ns2_first_prototypes" target="_blank">Squad mockup</a>) and assign players as squad leaders, but the role is otherwise dynamically assigned to the players with the highest scores. Should a Squad Leader die in combat, the role is assigned to the highest ranking player whom is not already a Squad Leader after a 3 - 5 second blindspot where no Squad Leader assignment can take place (Aliens benefit from making smart targeting choices). This continues until the squad is empty.</li><li> Squad members have additional information about their squadmates available to them at all times, such as their current gear loadout, health, armor and ammo, and time to respawn. Much of the practical information on the scoreboard is moved to the HUD without cluttering it.</li></ul>
This gives players objectives on the primary (Capture this Resource Node), secondary (Follow Me!), and tertiary (Stay with your squad leader) levels at nearly every step of the way, providing a built-in "newbie guide" but also encouraging healthy competition amongst squad members with incentive of being promoted, and providing many benefits to all cooperating players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's my full take on how to improve Squads:
Squad Leaders are able to indicating short-term micro objectives (Follow Me, Attack this Point, Defend the Target, Build the Structure) to squad members, though the Commander's orders take precedence. Players can look to Squad Leaders for tactical guidance, and Commanders for strategic guidance.
The Infantry Portal Transponder will only allow you to teleport to a Squad Leader (perhaps parasite could inhibit this).
Only MACs, powered structures, power packs and squads emit a personal radius where structures/items can be dropped (the room still requires power for this). If this is too limited, apply it only to unpowered rooms.
Any player can call for medpack/ammo/orders, but medpacks and ammopacks can only be dropped within the previously mentioned radius.
The number of available squads would have to scale with max player number (1 Leader for every 3 players) or increase with capped Tech Points, but something would need to limit the number to avoid every player being a squad leader whom can be med/ammospammed.
The Commander can manually drag and drop players to and from squads (see the bottom left of the official Squad mockup) and assign players as squad leaders, but the role is otherwise dynamically assigned to the players with the highest scores. Should a Squad Leader die in combat, the role is assigned to the highest ranking player whom is not already a Squad Leader after a 3 - 5 second blindspot where no Squad Leader assignment can take place (Aliens benefit from making smart targeting choices). This continues until the squad is empty.
Squad members have additional information about their squadmates available to them at all times, such as their current gear loadout, health, armor and ammo, and time to respawn. Much of the practical information on the scoreboard is moved to the HUD without cluttering it.
This gives players objectives on the primary (Capture this Resource Node), secondary (Follow Me!), and tertiary (Stay with your squad leader) levels at nearly every step of the way, providing a built-in "newbie guide" but also encouraging healthy competition amongst squad members with incentive of being promoted, and providing many benefits to all cooperating players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with this organic time based system.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think what needs to happens is that when you 'merge' into a squad, the time it takes to leave the squad depends on the time spent within it.
So those who are playing well in close proximity have a 'time based' association, so for every minute you are with a squad it takes 2 to leave - or something similar.
So even if you die, you are still assigned to a group of people and can find your way back to them without effecting commander control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One thing about the above suggestion. Add in a very simple but apparent option for players to reset the timer. This way if they know they're switching the squad they're playing with based on a change in the combat environment, they have the option to manually switch squads by resetting the timer, but they also have the option to let the system take care of it for them too.
Now as a final touch, add in a well developed and natural GUI system to indicate to players what is happening, and I think you have a very good squad based system that rewards team work while still allowing players the freedom and fluidity to meet the demands of a continually fast paced and dynamically changing combat environment. As a example as well as a suggestion for this, have the players GUI overlay switch colors based on the squad they are in. So if they are in the red squad, the GUI overlay for their health, ammo, armor and anything else will have a red theme to it. If they're in the blue squad everything will have a blue overlay. If green a green overlay. If yellow a yellow overlay. You shouldn't need anything past four squads either. Things like this are intuitive and natural while allowing players to easily understand what is going on.
In one fight in Classic NS and even in 2 I can imagine you could easily lose half of a 4 man squad who due to the location they were in may never be able to rejoin the squad through alien infestation or simply they're at the other end of the map.
In these cases, having a dynamic squad interface is handy, its useful to know you have some blokes around you, its also handy to know that you've just left the squad because you've run the other way to them. Perhaps its simply a guide to let you know friends are nearby.
The biggest help is that the commander does not have to assign new squads all the time, its intuitive, and whilst it won't be perfect, it'll make for better and more fluid control of the team.
As for strategy, being in a team is all you really need. Watching other team mates and where they scan the vents or turn in a random direction you hadn;t thought of is a display of their experience. By working with them, you know to look around that particular corner they died next to because they never did.
Plus theres nothing more annoying than being blamed for the loss of the entire team because you were in squad 2 and squad 2 got raped because you alone decided to grab 50 extra ammo and were lagging behind, forget the fact they got rushed by 2 onos 4 fades and a gorge on speed, armed with only lmgs and a cigar :D