comments on the game so far
rippir
Join Date: 2011-03-30 Member: 89503Members
Join Date: 2011-03-30 Member: 89503Members
I've played the game for several hours now & offer the following comments (played NS1 more than I should have)
By the way, don't dismiss my post as venting - I want this game to succeed and offer the following in what I believe is of the best interest to the developers to consider.
So obviously there's no going back to using a different engine such as source / unreal / crytek.
The engine has been developed for the game - great.
But it doesn't have the natural selection "feel" about it. It also very much seems as if ideas are being haphazardly thrown about and into the game without any strategic direction or concern for wider implications, as if UW is saying "well let's throw that in and see how the community react".
- The game is too dark. Whether this is the way the engine has been designed or they way the artwork has translated itself in the game, the lighting effects are overly exaggerated. The game feels far too gritty (reminds me of Killing Floor). I suggest that the whole scheme is brightened up a bit. There is no way people are going to enjoy playing for hours crawling through dark corridors as if they are playing one of the Thief games. I thought that this should have been a lessen well learned - doesn't anyone remember that even in the almost "bright" NS1, most guides to setting up your natural selection included changing the gamma! Increasing the brightness! and just about everyone that was warring had their gamma up bright. I don't believe the darkness adds attraction by way of immersion, it gets old real quick. Seems to me that UW is trying too hard to showcase the lighting effects the engine is capable of.
- Alien lifeforms are far too similar in design when compared against their backdrop of the walls and ceilings. The aliens should be of appearance similar to the infestation, they aren't geckos that have decided they will change their skin to adapt to the <u>man made</u> steel halls. Perhaps this can be addressed through the lighting of the maps. It almost feels as if someone has peeled off a section of the wall in the map and nailed it onto the aliens as armor.
- Walls, ceilings, protrusions, suspended objects, crevices, skeleton columns - they are all greatly exaggerated. The map design should be simpler, we don't need 5 spots for skulks to hide behind every 10 feet. Remember viel? eclipse? simple maps that were extremely popular. There needs to be less focus on creating unbelievable environments and more focus on simplicity and strategically connected corridors.
- Commander needs confirmation of different action types for clicks, all clicks have the same graphic as confirmation.
- Skulks are enormous. They looks like NS1 skulks on steroids. A smaller sleeker design would be better, the hitbox is too big at the moment. Skulks should be relying on the small size, quick erratic movements and stealth to prey upon the marines. None of this is relayed in the current skulk design.
- Lerk flight is lacking, hitting space only projects the lerk vertically - even if the lerk is looking directly at its feet (imagine a helicopter that is angled with it's nose down 45 degrees but only ascends perfectly vertically to the ground) but this isn't all that much of a bit deal. Tapping space while in a glide doesn't fit in with the movement of the lerk, this needs to be tied in better.
- No lerk bite. I don't know if UW got their inspiration from the modding community that added that horrible projectile weapon to the lerk, but it's a sad replacement for bite. Bite is essential for lerks in the strategic sense of the game, it allures the player with the every promising reward of a kill with significant risk - they could get a shotgun shell to the face. The current lerk weapons restrict the lerk to distanced combat, not really getting up close and personal, not pumping the heart of the player as they dive in for the kill. I'll stop with the theatrics, but seriously, add the bite back in and get rid of that spike weapon.
- Gorge is actually quite suitable in design for it's purpose, seems very well done.
- random alien sounds. I haven't heard them, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. Fades / lerks / gorge etc should be making some sort of "snort" or "gurgle" sound while inactive. similar to NS 1
- Bunny hop - needs to be introduced. The aliens need the maneuverability of this momentous action (taking the speed from a leap and rushing the the rescue of a dying structure)
- Fade. oh, where to start. The atrocity that the new fade is - quite sad, almost depressing. For all the artwork that has gone into this new game, the fade just seems like a mutated marine. The design needs to be more imposing and more aggressive. It almost seems as lethal as a gorge standing on its hind legs with some claws. But that's not the bad part - the way the fade moves... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! the old fade is turning in its grave. Please for the love of all that was awesome about the original fade, remove this terrible teleporting concept. Fade was an awesome creature mostly because it required skill to manage the energy for blinking (if you spammed it, you're dead because you can't get away, and oh boy could you use your energy quickly) and also because, similar to leap, you could use the momentum of a blink and carry it on into a bunnyhop or a nice arced decent to safety. The new fade is just teleport and stand there, flaying your claws and walking around a bit before your next teleport to safety. The fade speed is laughable, there is TOO much reliance on the teleport ability. A fade can never teleport near more than 1 marine. 2 marines with shotguns will destroy a fade in about 2 seconds, if the fade doesn't teleport straight back out or kill them both instantly, it's smoked. and in flight (the fleeing type) the fade can teleport away, but there is a moment between teleports where it's basically a still target. The double clicking to teleport is also too slow, it needs to be more fluid (but really it just needs to go).
I suggest that the traditional fade "blink" is used as a basic moving ability, then on the 3rd hive players should have the option of "upgrading" to the teleporting fade.
- Dropping res. Has it been considered what impact the changes to gorges will have on scrim games? Remember the strategy of temp then fade? It seems like the perma gorge has become the commander, and everyone else is on the offensive. I think that the capacity in which the gorge acted in NS 1 has been dismissed too readily.
- Marine right click - get rid of this L4D inspired action. We aren't fighting hordes of zombies so that while we reload we can smash a few skulls with a rifle butt. Reloading while using your rifle as a melee weapon adds nothing to immersion and ruins the risk in spamming all your bullets.
- Marine jump when crouch in mid air - doesn't work well when trying to get onto higher objects
- Turrets - I'm not sure how we have technology to spawn marines into the battle and magically transport the resources collected from towers to the buildings that consume them, and yet we haven't discovered the possibility to create a turret gun that can rotate more than 180 degrees? Also not so sure about placing turrets without the turret factory, how will hive sieges work?
I'm going to stop there.
It's the easy road to say "we are too far down this track to turn back and lose all the time we've invested so far into our current product", but seriously consider what you have so far. <b>I urge UW to just take one day off and have a full day meeting where you have a round table discussion and review what NS2 is taking shape to be and whether or not that shape is as sound as you thought it would be.</b>
- In high hopes of a great game.
By the way, don't dismiss my post as venting - I want this game to succeed and offer the following in what I believe is of the best interest to the developers to consider.
So obviously there's no going back to using a different engine such as source / unreal / crytek.
The engine has been developed for the game - great.
But it doesn't have the natural selection "feel" about it. It also very much seems as if ideas are being haphazardly thrown about and into the game without any strategic direction or concern for wider implications, as if UW is saying "well let's throw that in and see how the community react".
- The game is too dark. Whether this is the way the engine has been designed or they way the artwork has translated itself in the game, the lighting effects are overly exaggerated. The game feels far too gritty (reminds me of Killing Floor). I suggest that the whole scheme is brightened up a bit. There is no way people are going to enjoy playing for hours crawling through dark corridors as if they are playing one of the Thief games. I thought that this should have been a lessen well learned - doesn't anyone remember that even in the almost "bright" NS1, most guides to setting up your natural selection included changing the gamma! Increasing the brightness! and just about everyone that was warring had their gamma up bright. I don't believe the darkness adds attraction by way of immersion, it gets old real quick. Seems to me that UW is trying too hard to showcase the lighting effects the engine is capable of.
- Alien lifeforms are far too similar in design when compared against their backdrop of the walls and ceilings. The aliens should be of appearance similar to the infestation, they aren't geckos that have decided they will change their skin to adapt to the <u>man made</u> steel halls. Perhaps this can be addressed through the lighting of the maps. It almost feels as if someone has peeled off a section of the wall in the map and nailed it onto the aliens as armor.
- Walls, ceilings, protrusions, suspended objects, crevices, skeleton columns - they are all greatly exaggerated. The map design should be simpler, we don't need 5 spots for skulks to hide behind every 10 feet. Remember viel? eclipse? simple maps that were extremely popular. There needs to be less focus on creating unbelievable environments and more focus on simplicity and strategically connected corridors.
- Commander needs confirmation of different action types for clicks, all clicks have the same graphic as confirmation.
- Skulks are enormous. They looks like NS1 skulks on steroids. A smaller sleeker design would be better, the hitbox is too big at the moment. Skulks should be relying on the small size, quick erratic movements and stealth to prey upon the marines. None of this is relayed in the current skulk design.
- Lerk flight is lacking, hitting space only projects the lerk vertically - even if the lerk is looking directly at its feet (imagine a helicopter that is angled with it's nose down 45 degrees but only ascends perfectly vertically to the ground) but this isn't all that much of a bit deal. Tapping space while in a glide doesn't fit in with the movement of the lerk, this needs to be tied in better.
- No lerk bite. I don't know if UW got their inspiration from the modding community that added that horrible projectile weapon to the lerk, but it's a sad replacement for bite. Bite is essential for lerks in the strategic sense of the game, it allures the player with the every promising reward of a kill with significant risk - they could get a shotgun shell to the face. The current lerk weapons restrict the lerk to distanced combat, not really getting up close and personal, not pumping the heart of the player as they dive in for the kill. I'll stop with the theatrics, but seriously, add the bite back in and get rid of that spike weapon.
- Gorge is actually quite suitable in design for it's purpose, seems very well done.
- random alien sounds. I haven't heard them, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. Fades / lerks / gorge etc should be making some sort of "snort" or "gurgle" sound while inactive. similar to NS 1
- Bunny hop - needs to be introduced. The aliens need the maneuverability of this momentous action (taking the speed from a leap and rushing the the rescue of a dying structure)
- Fade. oh, where to start. The atrocity that the new fade is - quite sad, almost depressing. For all the artwork that has gone into this new game, the fade just seems like a mutated marine. The design needs to be more imposing and more aggressive. It almost seems as lethal as a gorge standing on its hind legs with some claws. But that's not the bad part - the way the fade moves... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! the old fade is turning in its grave. Please for the love of all that was awesome about the original fade, remove this terrible teleporting concept. Fade was an awesome creature mostly because it required skill to manage the energy for blinking (if you spammed it, you're dead because you can't get away, and oh boy could you use your energy quickly) and also because, similar to leap, you could use the momentum of a blink and carry it on into a bunnyhop or a nice arced decent to safety. The new fade is just teleport and stand there, flaying your claws and walking around a bit before your next teleport to safety. The fade speed is laughable, there is TOO much reliance on the teleport ability. A fade can never teleport near more than 1 marine. 2 marines with shotguns will destroy a fade in about 2 seconds, if the fade doesn't teleport straight back out or kill them both instantly, it's smoked. and in flight (the fleeing type) the fade can teleport away, but there is a moment between teleports where it's basically a still target. The double clicking to teleport is also too slow, it needs to be more fluid (but really it just needs to go).
I suggest that the traditional fade "blink" is used as a basic moving ability, then on the 3rd hive players should have the option of "upgrading" to the teleporting fade.
- Dropping res. Has it been considered what impact the changes to gorges will have on scrim games? Remember the strategy of temp then fade? It seems like the perma gorge has become the commander, and everyone else is on the offensive. I think that the capacity in which the gorge acted in NS 1 has been dismissed too readily.
- Marine right click - get rid of this L4D inspired action. We aren't fighting hordes of zombies so that while we reload we can smash a few skulls with a rifle butt. Reloading while using your rifle as a melee weapon adds nothing to immersion and ruins the risk in spamming all your bullets.
- Marine jump when crouch in mid air - doesn't work well when trying to get onto higher objects
- Turrets - I'm not sure how we have technology to spawn marines into the battle and magically transport the resources collected from towers to the buildings that consume them, and yet we haven't discovered the possibility to create a turret gun that can rotate more than 180 degrees? Also not so sure about placing turrets without the turret factory, how will hive sieges work?
I'm going to stop there.
It's the easy road to say "we are too far down this track to turn back and lose all the time we've invested so far into our current product", but seriously consider what you have so far. <b>I urge UW to just take one day off and have a full day meeting where you have a round table discussion and review what NS2 is taking shape to be and whether or not that shape is as sound as you thought it would be.</b>
- In high hopes of a great game.
Comments
2. I do agree that the aliens should match their infestation, or vice versa. Also, chameleons not geckos.
3. Once again, I've read some rather contrary opinions to this. I won't comment.
4. Agreed. They'll polish it up eventually I'm sure.
5. This is unfortunate, but true. It may even be intentional, to make the game a bit more accessible.
6. Lerk flight certainly needs work. We had a number of discussions on the lerk flight model; one person even made a number of lerk flight mods.
7. The lerk originally had spikes in NS1, which was replaced in a later version with bite. They went back to spikes for NS2 because they felt they could do it with their new engine, and because they have a certain ideal for the gameplay. Wait and see. Also, you do realise that NS1 was a mod from a modding community, right?
8. Whoa. Completely opposite opinion to what others have said. I agree with others that the gorge is lacking, but I don't fully agree with the reason (lack of building placement). I personally think it should have more of a front-line support and combat role.
9. Once again, just more polish. The game is nowhere near done asset-wise.
10. Always a bone of contention.
11. Same deal with the lerk in #7. NS1 fades originally had teleport (that's why it's called a "blink") but they couldn't get it to work ideally; then they turned fade into superman. Now they're back with actual blink, because they believe they can do it right. Wait and see.
12. ?
13. I'd hardly call it L4D inspired, it was around well before then. And I like it.
14. Currently broken (torso moves down, instead of legs moving up). Acknowledged. Yet to be fixed.
15. Obvious design decision. Wait and see.
Sounds like you're just nitpicking because you want NS1 reskinned (hell, not even that - you don't like the alien skins). Who knows?
Really sounds like he just wants NS1.
Old fans of the original need to realize this is NS2.
Bare in mind that Alien Armour upgrades currently do not work.
Cant agree with the majority of the points.
Lerk needs bite instead of spikes? Lol, then it will be as useless as frontal skulk against flamethrowers, but ok, you probably just forgot to add "remove flamethrower" to your list.
I agree with changing the current fade though. It should be nimbler and deadlier looking, possibly with less health and faster movement, and a more skillbased teleport - it would also be cool if it was more or less silent but made a ruckus with the primary attack, so the secondary could be used for stealthy assassinations
2) Alien lifeforms are far too similar in design when compared against their backdrop of the walls and ceilings. [...]
3) The map design should be simpler [...] There needs to be less focus on creating unbelievable environments and more focus on simplicity and strategically connected corridors.
4) Commander needs confirmation of different action types for clicks, all clicks have the same graphic as confirmation.
5) Skulks are enormous. They looks like NS1 skulks on steroids. A smaller sleeker design would be better, the hitbox is too big at the moment. Skulks should be relying on the small size, quick erratic movements and stealth to prey upon the marines. None of this is relayed in the current skulk design.
6) Lerk flight is lacking, hitting space only projects the lerk vertically - even if the lerk is looking directly at its feet (imagine a helicopter that is angled with it's nose down 45 degrees but only ascends perfectly vertically to the ground) but this isn't all that much of a bit deal. Tapping space while in a glide doesn't fit in with the movement of the lerk, this needs to be tied in better.
7) [...] Bite is essential for lerks in the strategic sense of the game [...]
9) random alien sounds. [...]
10) Bunny hop - needs to be introduced. [...]
11) Fade. oh, where to start. [...] The fade speed is laughable, there is TOO much reliance on the teleport ability. [...] and in flight (the fleeing type) the fade can teleport away, but there is a moment between teleports where it's basically a still target. The double clicking to teleport is also too slow, it needs to be more fluid (but really it just needs to go). [...]
12) Dropping res. Has it been considered what impact the changes to gorges will have on scrim games? Remember the strategy of temp then fade? It seems like the perma gorge has become the commander, and everyone else is on the offensive. I think that the capacity in which the gorge acted in NS 1 has been dismissed too readily.
13) Marine right click - get rid of this L4D inspired action. We aren't fighting hordes of zombies so that while we reload we can smash a few skulls with a rifle butt. Reloading while using your rifle as a melee weapon adds nothing to immersion and ruins the risk in spamming all your bullets.
14) Marine jump when crouch in mid air - doesn't work well when trying to get onto higher objects
15) Turrets - I'm not sure how we have technology to spawn marines into the battle and magically transport the resources collected from towers to the buildings that consume them, and yet we haven't discovered the possibility to create a turret gun that can rotate more than 180 degrees? Also not so sure about placing turrets without the turret factory, how will hive sieges work?
16) I urge UW to just take one day off and have a full day meeting where you have a round table discussion and review what NS2 is taking shape to be and whether or not that shape is as sound as you thought it would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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1) Turn up your gamma/brightness or invest in a better monitor. I think you are the only one on these forums whose had this opinion. Hell, I don't think it's dark enough (in Unpowered rooms). Darkness provides the Kharaa an advantage, with their new Dark Vision; it isn't just aesthetic.
2) Again, check your monitor. Brightness and Contrast. The aliens have purplish skin with decayed-bone colored carapace. The walls are a cobalt steel most of the time. I don't really see this.
3) Dev-involved discussion about NS1 vs. NS2 map theories <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113038" target="_blank">HERE</a>.
4) <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. The game will see a lot more polish before the final release, I'm sure.
5) This is an argument about both the aesthetics and the physics of the Skulk. Although they're related, they're two different issues, which suggests there is another underlying issue bringing you to both of these opinions. What's the real issue here?
6) This is a part of the game code the developers have stated is just a placeholder. They intend to overhaul Lerk movement once higher priority (Engine) issues are resolved.
7) Sounds like you just want an updated NS1. Replacing bite with spikes does not REMOVE strategy it just provides for DIFFERENT ones. Try embracing the change instead of running from it; you'd be surprised how enjoyable it is.
9) Another bit of polish, likely to be added later. The skulk walking sounds were just added (although I personally don't like sounding like a galloping horse), so it's possible more will be added soon.
10) I'm not going to touch this subject with a 10-foot pole. Go <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112063" target="_blank">HERE</a> if you feel you have some insight that 18 pages couldn't resolve. Don't expect to see b-hopping in this game though; it was an unintended relic of the past.
11) There is already a mod for a single-click Fade Blink (pressing brings up the model, releasing Blinks), but this should become standard. Overall, Blink does need a bit of tweaking, and the Fade's weapon2 attack seems a bit lackluster. I can see your frustration with this. Have you tried blinking with Dark Vision (flashlight) on? The vision removes all lighting and effects, so your vision isn't obstructed when blinking. Check it out.
12) The Gorge is now responsible for helping the Commander create, bridge and defend territories. By replacing his ability to drop Res Towers with the ability to drop Infestation, the Gorge has much more utility. Rogue Infestation provides a means to escape the boundaries imposed by the creepingly slow dynamic infestation. The Gorge is now a mini-Hive in the right hands.
13) There isn't really much constructive criticism here, so I can't say much in response. There is still risk to spamming your bullets. The rifle's melee is a last resort move; you don't want to be at melee range with any alien.
14) Currently crouch-jumping lowers your torso instead of pulling your legs up, so it is not an effective tool for climbing objects. I'm sure this is a technical issue, not an intended feature.
15) Gameplay will always triumph over realism, that's a useless card to play. The turrets rotation is limited to make them less spammable and more strategic. Siege Cannons are becoming mobile and requiring Deployment to fire. Check <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Main_Page" target="_blank">HERE</a> for a somewhat outdated list of intended features, including the as yet un-implemented ARC.
16) This is quite presumptuous, bordering on insulting, but I'm sure you meant no harm. Do you honestly think they've gotten as far as they have without doing exactly what you've proposed? Give them a little credit (or yourself a little less).
In a game that is limited by the fact that things are made of polygons, not molecules and elements and compounds, there has to be compromise.
The NS1 turrets were never used in clan games, because they could 360 track, which in turn meant they couldn't be as powerful, which made them a little useless unless you had 3+ and this leads to turret spam.
It is better to have turrets that are more powerful and have tactical and strategic purpose, then a useless fire everywhere turret that has to sacrifice power to numbers.
Turret farms are a bad thing.
Well with inflation, it'll no longer be a "my 50 cents thread" but a "my $10 dollar" thread.
You can't have defensive structures without them turning into farms in at least some matches. Thats the nature of defenses, you want to spam them to make your base impenetrable. If you try to nerf this by making them more expensive/have some other major flaw, then they are no longer effective and will be underused, hence the current sentry.
And then, if you remove the flamethrower you will have to remove the DI.