You should probably credit Broodwar/Starcraft 2 for a few of your ideas
shurgs
Join Date: 2011-04-26 Member: 95771Members
Join Date: 2011-04-26 Member: 95771Members
So like, your static defenses unroot and walk around.
You're now considering Dynamic infestation "pustules" that spread the infestation.
Hydras...
I could probably go on.
Gotta get your inspiration from somewhere, but honesty is the best policy guys!
Lovin' your work either way
-shurgs
You're now considering Dynamic infestation "pustules" that spread the infestation.
Hydras...
I could probably go on.
Gotta get your inspiration from somewhere, but honesty is the best policy guys!
Lovin' your work either way
-shurgs
Comments
And BTW, I love blizzards work either way.
It's hardly an original idea, a model surrounded by a decal to constitute an environmental change was dictated by technology first, and practicality second.
Problem: Marines can't kill the infestation decals with guns. Solution: Give them something other than a decal to shoot, it's not exactly rocket science.
Moving structures around again not exactly original, having things that deploy and undeploy was in dune 2, probably the first recognisable RTS ever made, essentially a precursor to CnC.
All games use similar tech, so they have similar limitations, and therefore tend to come up with similar solutions.
<!--quoteo(post=1842536:date=Apr 26 2011, 06:51 PM:name=shurgs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shurgs @ Apr 26 2011, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So like, your static defenses unroot and walk around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would list a hundred games that had static defenses that can unroot and walk around if I had time to waste here.
Well look at that! In that case, StarCraft got it's ideas from Warhammer. My point still stands.
You're now considering Dynamic infestation "pustules" that spread the infestation.
Hydras...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The visuals for the whip were concepted without any reference to Starcraft. Then, on the gameplay side, we felt limited by not being able to change their position after being placed, since the melee aspect of the whip requires more specific placement then a ranged static defense. So, hey, it would be cool to move them around, and look, the art already looks like it has tentacle legs that it could shuffle around on, so why not allow for it to move. But, being able to constantly move them around while attacking would be too powerful, so required rooting and unrooting.
DI pustules are merely being considered purely to allow the marines the ability to attack infestation early on, and having to shoot at the ground is pretty lame. Its not even the ideal way that we want to do it, because 1) it requires more art and 2) we would prefer that eventually the alien commander can sort of mold and push and form the DI, when he can see the ghost model of the 3d effect, as it would look cooler to be growing it that way as opposed to just dropping down pustules that the DI expands from. So, again, not based off of Starcraft and we'd probably prefer to not have to do it that way.
And Hydras? C'mon. Marines have sentries, Aliens need their organic version, which is based on the OCs in NS1. How is that taken from Starcraft 2?
Anyway, we have not been shy about saying how much of an influence Starcraft was on NS, and there's plenty of aspects that we've drawn inspiration from, but most of our reasons for doing things are because they work, make sense, and fit in with the gameplay, not because we grabbed them from Starcraft 2.
--Cory
@ DI, I think it would look cool if it would spread from nodes placed by the comm (these pustule thingies?). But not spawning like the current sprites, but in a random or commander designated/prioritized direction
From <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113258&view=findpost&p=1842552" target="_blank">this thread</a>
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not give Drifters a "deployed-mode" where they cannot hover but are forced to crawl, and spread infestation in their wake?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't require more art, AI/pathing is already there, and definitely feels more dynamic if infestation is following a commander-controlled entity than if it's spawning from an immobile structure.
How I think it should work however (when finished (that means when its a mesh)), is with each hive spreading di in its immediate area (as it is now), and then the commander can use infest to "drag" the mesh, which basiclly shows a curve as a ghost, and when the comm clicks a second time, the di would start to grow to fill the designated area (reason its 2 clicks is because I imagine there should be a cancel button).
The energy cost would be based on the area covered.
I think this might be easyest done using (quadratic) bezier curves with the 3 points a0-b, a1, and a0+b where a is the mouse position (a0 being first click, a1 being second) and b is a vector perpendicular to the directional vector (a1-a0).
Not sure if it would have a constant magnitude, or so long it can be before it reach di edge or a max limit.
When the di mesh touch walls, it should grow upwards by itself (atleast a little bit), so gorges can build hydras on the walls.
When marines want to remove infestation, they would either use ft to fight the di (or cut of parts of the mesh), use nades to blow holes in the mesh, or switch to a meelee weapon and slowly slash trough it (as the t1 option).
tl;dr
I think the comm should expand di trough dragging from an edge and outwards, making the edge of di curve towards the mouse. The marines should only be able to remove di trough ft, nade or meelee.
<!--coloro:#333333--><span style="color:#333333"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I really should stop posting this late, my posts look like a rambling mess to me :S<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
EDIT:
If you wonder what a bezier curve is, here is a animation that explains what i mean pretty well
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_curve#Quadratic_curves" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_c...uadratic_curves</a>
And BTW, I love blizzards work either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFMFT.
i love how everyone is all like blizzard blizzard blizzard. they pretty much just sat warhammer figurines on their desks and modeled them.
everyone can argue that blizzard got the lore from tolkien and he got it from folklore, but nobody can deny that the visuals for all of this were stolen from GW artists.
i love how everyone is all like blizzard blizzard blizzard. they pretty much just sat warhammer figurines on their desks and modeled them.
everyone can argue that blizzard got the lore from tolkien and he got it from folklore, but nobody can deny that the visuals for all of this were stolen from GW artists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can. Because Gamers Workshop just took Starship Troopers and put muscle men inside the suits, bam, Space Marines. Made them devout like Templar Knights. Not very original. We can trace the Tyranids back to Alien / Aliens, also, which Gamers Workshop even said was their inspiration.
Warhammer fans are -crazy-, from what I've seen. They believe they started anything and everything Sci-Fi.
To quote a post I made on Moddb in response to a Warhammer fan:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mkilbride
Mkilbride Apr 23 2011, 7:45am says: Online
TheM3nace.
Thank you for doing what I was about to do. I've never seen fans like Warhammer40k, who refuse to believe that Warhammer 40k didn't invent the concept of evolving, swarm like aliens with a hive mind, and claim that any game such a race = copied Warhammer40k. Imperial Guard? Cmon, there's been numerous sci fi movies dating back before it's creation using similiar outfits and themes.
Space Marines? Well, yeah, Starship Troopers was mentioned, that was one of the first books that popularized "Power Armor."
Believe it or not, while Warhammer 40k may be a well established franchise, it is hardly known. I could ask people in my town, 9/10 wouldn't know that it was, or they'd think that Dawn of War, from 2004, started the series. Heck, most of the fans of the Dawn of War game don't even know it's based on an established history.
I mean hell, everything in Warhammer 40k is just a copy of something else...infact, Gamers Workship cites Lord of the Rings, and their desire to make a Space Version as the inspiration for Warhammer 40k...so yeah lol, Warhammer 40k is incredibly unoriginal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.moddb.com/games/natural-selection-2/news/ns2-build-173-released" target="_blank">http://www.moddb.com/games/natural-selecti...ld-173-released</a>
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery right?
In any case. NS2 is far more original than anything that ever came out of Blizzard. WarCraft and StarCraft are basically dune 2 and the Diablo series is a high-tech powered rouge-like. WoW? Aren't all mmorpgs the same? Blizzard doesn't make original games, they just make really good ones :)
@Mkilbride
We are only saying that blizzard stole GWs artwork for their WC and SC series here. No one said GW invented anything from scratch. Of course they got their inspiration from somewhere else. But it's pretty obvious that blizzard had carbon paper at hand when designing their mentioned games.
In any case. NS2 is far more original than anything that ever came out of Blizzard. WarCraft and StarCraft are basically dune 2 and the Diablo series is a high-tech powered rouge-like. WoW? Aren't all mmorpgs the same? Blizzard doesn't make original games, they just make really good ones :)
@Mkilbride
We are only saying that blizzard stole GWs artwork for their WC and SC series here. No one said GW invented anything from scratch. Of course they got their inspiration from somewhere else. But it's pretty obvious that blizzard had carbon paper at hand when designing their mentioned games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I still disagree, Gamers Workship themselves said they didn't feel Blizzard copied them, and Blizzard themselves said they had no idea about Warhammer 40k. Of course, there is that old rumor that SC was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40k, but GW also denies this and says no such talks ever happened, as does Blizzard. If both parties involved say so, I'll believe them until someone says officially otherwise. The problem with Warhammer 40K fans is that they think it's really well known. You could literally ask and 9/10 people would never have heard of it before. In the gaming community, it's more like 5/10. It's established franchise indeed, but people consider Magic The Gathering a pretty well known franchise, but most people don't know much about it. It's a really small community, big mouth kind of thing. I fully believe Blizzard had very little, to no idea about Warhammer 40K. The fans of it just have always shat on StarCraft because the Warhammer 40K Game franchise hasn't even been a tenth as successful and claim it's because of StarCraft. It's crazy.
Then the topology of the vein network will become a strategic point (therefor fun to build), trying to get the most efficient network, doubling the network to make it more robust, the marines could try to go further into the alien territory to cut an important vein, ...
It's a bit similar to road network in the Settlers.
###### yeah, man. I had this suggestion the other month... wish I could find the post, it had pictures and all.
Here we go:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112950&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=112950&hl=</a>
Pictures...
<!--quoteo(post=1836688:date=Mar 10 2011, 09:27 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 10 2011, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[... blah blah blah ...]
Btw, this may be of interest: <a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/slime-mold-grows-network-just-like-tokyo-rail-system/" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/...yo-rail-system/</a>
Preview:
<img src="http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2010/01/slime_mold_1-660x501.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1836796:date=Mar 11 2011, 01:29 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 11 2011, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The slime mold sends out thin tendrils, or a wave of them, searching in every direction; when it hits something of interest (an oat flake), it strengthens that link to the main slime mold mass (so as to ferry nutrients) and gradually removes all the superfluous tendrils; but it continues to spread as a wave, eventually encompassing the entire thing.
[... wall of text explanation ...]
Something like this perhaps:
Brown dots are DI markers, red circles are structures/DI nodes.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/uyBjD.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until there is such a thread i dub this thread the "di growth idea and other stuff" thread! xD
After I done what I have to do for school today, I think I will go make some images in paint to explain what I meant last page.
thats true and it scares me.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Battle#First_edition_.281983.29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fan...tion_.281983.29</a> Warhammer <b>1983</b>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft:_Orcs_%26_Humans" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft:_Orcs_%26_Humans</a> Warcraft <b>1994</b>
and it is true that blizz tried to get the warhammer franchise. gw didn't sell. so blizz ripped them off. it's cool tho, like someone said, neither company is pissed.
Also, Gamers Workshop even said they ripped Tolkien off. They said they had the idea to make a Tolkien fantasy, but with more blood and gore. It was originally going to be a LoTR game, but the rights holders thought it was to dark to be a LoTR game, so they changed some names and places and bam, Warhammer Fantasy was created.
<a href="http://www.deviantart.com/download/56854953/Hydra_by_el_grimlock.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.deviantart.com/download/5685495...el_grimlock.jpg</a>
It's called Hydra because of having multiple heads.
Hydralisk is called hydralisk because of the serpant like head shape of the actual beast.
I don't NS2 ripping it off at all.
Also, Gamers Workshop even said they ripped Tolkien off. They said they had the idea to make a Tolkien fantasy, but with more blood and gore. It was originally going to be a LoTR game, but the rights holders thought it was to dark to be a LoTR game, so they changed some names and places and bam, Warhammer Fantasy was created.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tolkien didn't draw pictures homeslice. original concept art is original. that was our point.
GW extended professional courtesy. tabletop != pc game. i'm saying, everything you see in warcraft/starcraft was visually stolen.
DI pustules are merely being considered purely to allow the marines the ability to attack infestation early on, and having to shoot at the ground is pretty lame. Its not even the ideal way that we want to do it, because 1) it requires more art and 2) we would prefer that eventually the alien commander can sort of mold and push and form the DI, when he can see the ghost model of the 3d effect, as it would look cooler to be growing it that way as opposed to just dropping down pustules that the DI expands from. So, again, not based off of Starcraft and we'd probably prefer to not have to do it that way.
And Hydras? C'mon. Marines have sentries, Aliens need their organic version, which is based on the OCs in NS1. How is that taken from Starcraft 2?
Anyway, we have not been shy about saying how much of an influence Starcraft was on NS, and there's plenty of aspects that we've drawn inspiration from, but most of our reasons for doing things are because they work, make sense, and fit in with the gameplay, not because we grabbed them from Starcraft 2.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
didn't read whole thread, but a compromise is:
having the DI spreading like a large mass (like before) and just have it generate random "pastules", that when destroyed make DI in a radius around them wither and die.
or, have larger veins in the DI that when severed cannot supply nourishment and the DI after the sever point dies out.