<!--quoteo(post=1843720:date=May 2 2011, 05:20 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 2 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The instigator of what? Violence? There's nothing to pretend. They didn't instigate violence, and violence was yet visited upon them. That makes the car driver the instigator. Stop trying to excuse his actions. His response to whatever inconvenience was imposed on him was too disproportionate for excuses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no excuse for the driver to do what he did and I never tried to make any for him. But for the riders there is a difference between what you are legally entitled to (not being assaulted) and what you should actually expect when you antagonize people.
That is what I said, they should have seen something like this coming, don't try to make this out like I am defending anyone.
What I am looking for here is where you stand. Who's to blame? Is nobody to blame? Was this all a tragic accident? Or are the cyclists to blame? Did they do something so heinous that mowing them down was a reasonable response? Or is the driver to blame? Did he react to being inconvenienced by brutally assaulting over a dozen people? Is that a reasonable response? Is that an understandable response? Or is that the kind of response that only a choleric madman could come up with?
I think the driver is no less responsible then if he ran down a bicyclist anywhere else. I do not believe that pointing out the faults with one party makes the other less responsible.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1844045:date=May 4 2011, 12:32 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ May 4 2011, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the driver is no less responsible then if he ran down a bicyclist anywhere else. I do not believe that pointing out the faults with one party makes the other less responsible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I'd say he's about as responsible as someone who intentionally ran down twenty to thirty individual cyclists. Attempted mass vehicular homicide is just about as bad as attempted serial vehicular homicide. Just as bad as the **** who knifes some guy for calling him names. It's inconvenient. It's no excuse for <i>running people over with a car.</i>
Imagine someone shooting you in the back of the head for cutting in line at the supermarket. And then someone justifying it as that YOU started it, and deserve it for having cut in line. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it. Same with the 'what did you expect?' response.
At this point I almost feel compelled to defend the "what did you expect" response, if only to be contrary. Because to be honest I did expect this. There are too many drivers who see cyclists as sub-human. Sooner or later somebody was going to give in to their choleric temper and do something like this. Getting a driver's license is a matter of demonstrating that you have some marginal knowledge of how to operate a car without being a total menace to everyone else, but there's no evaluation of whether you possess the self-control to be entrusted with something so dangerous. There are some proper maniacs on the road, barely held in check by the threat of legal repercussions. That threat won't always suffice, and then we get this.
As for strict adherence to traffic laws, show of hands: How many of you have deliberately violated the speed limit? Wow, that's a lot. Pots & kettles, do that meet 'n greet thing.
In other news, today I bought a bicycle helmet! Now, when a lorry swats me off the road, my head won't break like a coconut. Instead I'll fracture my neck and get to live a fulfilled life as a quadriplegic. Yay!
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Today a guy in front of me on the road stopped to let a car out of a side road. We were both on a main road, and stopping to let side traffic out is a clear violation of the highway code.
I don't have a car, but as a bicyclist I usually go by only one rule in traffic. It goes something like "don't take any chances with 3-ton metal cages".
<!--quoteo(post=1844465:date=May 6 2011, 02:31 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 6 2011, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't have a car, but as a bicyclist I usually go by only one rule in traffic. It goes something like "don't take any chances with 3-ton metal cages".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Avert your gaze, don't make eye contact, and hope they don't decide it's swirly time.
<!--quoteo(post=1844439:date=May 6 2011, 05:33 AM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ May 6 2011, 05:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844439"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I'd say he's about as responsible as someone who intentionally ran down twenty to thirty individual cyclists. Attempted mass vehicular homicide is just about as bad as attempted serial vehicular homicide. Just as bad as the **** who knifes some guy for calling him names. It's inconvenient. It's no excuse for <i>running people over with a car.</i>
Imagine someone shooting you in the back of the head for cutting in line at the supermarket. And then someone justifying it as that YOU started it, and deserve it for having cut in line. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it. Same with the 'what did you expect?' response.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to question if you are willfully ignoring/misinterpreting what I said.
<!--quoteo(post=1844491:date=May 6 2011, 05:14 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ May 6 2011, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to question if you are willfully ignoring/misinterpreting what I said.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It sounds like the beginning of the same discussion you and I had. I think it comes down to the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking" target="_blank">"Arson, Murder and Jaywalking"</a> trope. That trope is funny because to even mention jaywalking in the same breath as arson and murder is completely ridiculous. It usually denotes a character who has an extreme black and white morality, i.e. Rorschach of "Watchmen" who will respond harshly to even minor infractions. The reason you've caught flak repeatedly is because you seem disproportionally preoccupied with the cyclists whose infractions fade to insignificance compared to the crime that was perpetrated against them. And also because there are a couple of sociopaths who will actually defend the driver, and it is easy to misinterpret your preoccupation with the cyclists as support for those lunatics.
<!--quoteo(post=1844449:date=May 6 2011, 11:14 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 6 2011, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At this point I almost feel compelled to defend the "what did you expect" response, if only to be contrary. Because to be honest I did expect this. There are too many drivers who see cyclists as sub-human.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cyclists are sub-human. You've made a conscious decision to operate a toy, with the full intention of:
1) Impeding the flow of traffic. 2) Traveling at speeds much, much slower than the road you're on is meant to be traveled at. 3) Operating on a surface designed with the intention of operating high-speed vehicles on it. 3A) Additionally, the entire reason these high-speed vehicles and surfaces exist is to get places quickly.
By using a bicycle you've demonstrated that:
1) You are fully aware of your impact on traffic and therefore must condone it. 2) You've chosen an inferior form of transit and are going out of your way to ensure others are as inconvenienced by your moronic choice as you are, by traveling slow. 3) You've accepted the risks associated with doing this, yet still ###### and moan about it.
Cyclists are little more than sub-human trolls. Riding a bicycle on a road and then getting upset that people are angry at you is akin to bringing a toddler to a Nine Inch Nails concert and then complaining that he got crushed to death in the mosh pit. The solution isn't to organize moronic protests about how people should 'respect' the fact that you are going out of your way to piss people off (literally in some ways).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason you've caught flak repeatedly is because you seem disproportionally preoccupied with the cyclists whose infractions fade to insignificance compared to the crime that was perpetrated against them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The law considers how many times you've committed a crime too. You can be thrown in jail for decades if you've committed a relatively minor crime multiple times.
A single cyclist impedes one car and gets run over? That's ridiculous.
150 cyclists impede dozens of cars for a total of 10,000+ violations?
Oh come on. Your trolling is so transparent I can't even get worked up over it. Look at it, such a long post, so much effort, all utterly wasted because you went too far over the top.
<!--quoteo(post=1844926:date=May 9 2011, 01:22 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 9 2011, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh come on. Your trolling is so transparent I can't even get worked up over it. Look at it, such a long post, so much effort, all utterly wasted because you went too far over the top.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So don't get worked up over it. Explain why you've chosen a dumb###### form of transit and then feel it's the job over everyone else to travel at 8 MPH for forty minutes, because you're too ###### rude to pull over and let them pass?
Ah yes, I get a huge fine if I don't give you an entire car's width when I pass you, but you get nothing for gliding through a stop sign as if you're a pedestrian. Once again, the bikers are innocent fragile little people and drivers are evil ######s.
I can't very well "explain why I've chosen a dumb###### form of transit" when I haven't, can I? You're being utterly ridiculous. Cyclists don't block the road simply by being there, they take up far less space than a car does. If the road is so narrow that you can pass them without having to pull into the opposite lane it's probably a road with less traffic, so you CAN simply pull into the opposite lane. So what if you end up having to wait ten seconds for the opposite lane to clear? You'll arrive at your destination ten seconds later. Whoop-de-######-doo, it's not as if you're doing anything important anyway.
Sorry I don't live where you do where every road in town is an 8-lane superhighway. Sorry that our laws here say that you *must* provide an entire car-width for horses and cyclists, and every road is as narrow and small as can be no matter where it is or how much traffic it needs to carry.
Ah wait a second, lolf, the very video we're talking about here shows bikers <b>blocking an entire road</b>. They're casually strolling at a walking pace, swerving to tie up as much traffic as possible, and utterly refusing to let anyone pass. And why are they doing it? Because they're little more than ######. Oh sure, the real reason might be 'to protest for cyclist rights' or something, but ultimately it comes down to cyclists being ######bags, drivers hate dealing with them because they're ######bags so they treat them like ######, so cyclists cry and moan and get laws passed and become bigger ######bags.
You can say 'their crime doesn't deserve what they got', but elevated levels of ######baggery, a 'critical mass' if you will, deservedly earn a violent response. Someone who is incessantly annoying another person shouldn't be surprised when they get punched in the face.
<!--quoteo(post=1844926:date=May 9 2011, 01:22 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 9 2011, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh come on. Your trolling is so transparent I can't even get worked up over it. Look at it, such a long post, so much effort, all utterly wasted because you went too far over the top.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't read most things he writes. I've noticed him on the forums for like 1 day after a long absence and have already contemplated the ignore/block post feature.
You don't get to decide what counts as a protest and what doesn't, that's all there is to it. Even if this wasn't a protest, it was a public disturbance, no more. Civilized societies have a system of law for handling legal disputes. I doubt the proper punishment for "temporarily blocking a road" is grievous injury in any remotely sane country.
And if you really think ######baggery is a motivation for riding a bike, get your head checked.
<!--quoteo(post=1845009:date=May 9 2011, 06:50 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ May 9 2011, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1845009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry I don't live where you do where every road in town is an 8-lane superhighway. Sorry that our laws here say that you *must* provide an entire car-width for horses and cyclists, and every road is as narrow and small as can be no matter where it is or how much traffic it needs to carry.
Ah wait a second, lolf, the very video we're talking about here shows bikers <b>blocking an entire road</b>. They're casually strolling at a walking pace, swerving to tie up as much traffic as possible, and utterly refusing to let anyone pass. And why are they doing it? Because they're little more than ######. Oh sure, the real reason might be 'to protest for cyclist rights' or something, but ultimately it comes down to cyclists being ######bags, drivers hate dealing with them because they're ######bags so they treat them like ######, so cyclists cry and moan and get laws passed and become bigger ######bags.
You can say 'their crime doesn't deserve what they got', but elevated levels of ######baggery, a 'critical mass' if you will, deservedly earn a violent response. Someone who is incessantly annoying another person shouldn't be surprised when they get punched in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What the hell is wrong with you? Do you seriously not see yourself arguing that causing minor irritation to people is an equal crime to attempting to murder and injuring dozens of individuals? As if the former somehow justifies that latter? If you seriously don't understand this, I hope you enjoy prison, I don't think you'll be posting here all too much longer.
He's just talking internet-tough to get a rise out of us. It's like how we all say we want a device that lets us punch people in the face over the internet. Because we don't just go around punching people we don't like in real life. Unlike trolling a message board, that could have <i>consequences.</i> Unpleasant ones.
<!--quoteo(post=1844935:date=May 8 2011, 09:20 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 8 2011, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't very well "explain why I've chosen a dumb###### form of transit" when I haven't, can I? You're being utterly ridiculous. Cyclists don't block the road simply by being there, they take up far less space than a car does. If the road is so narrow that you can pass them without having to pull into the opposite lane it's probably a road with less traffic, so you CAN simply pull into the opposite lane. So what if you end up having to wait ten seconds for the opposite lane to clear? You'll arrive at your destination ten seconds later. Whoop-de-######-doo, it's not as if you're doing anything important anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The roads are tiny here. As a matter of fact, if you so much as go off the road too much here, you'll go straight into a 10-foot ditch. Driving a full-size truck can be scary at times. Now maybe if you live in Indiana, the roads there are big enough to put 2 more lanes in. Bicyclists cause such horrible traffic problems sometimes that it's almost cost me to be late to work. If you want to be on two wheels in the street so bad, at least get a scooter as their cheap as dirt. Its actually quite humorous to be on a motorcycle and 'pedal' your way past a bicyclist, they get pretty butthurt over it.
I ride my bike to work most days. Busy roads in Australia are generally pretty wide, leaving an extra 0.7 lanes of space either side of the road for allow for cyclists and roadside parking. Sometimes I have to veer into the road proper to get around a parked car, but I always shoulder-check beforehand.
Both sides of this stupid argument are being stupid, taking the absolutes of the situation, putting them on a placard and bashing the other side over the head with it.
<!--QuoteBegin-"Cyclists"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Cyclists")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IT'S MY RIGHT TO RIDE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD AT 2KM/H GODDAMNIT, I PAY TAXES TOO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-"Drivers"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Drivers")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->GODDAMNIT GET YOUR SLOW-ARSE PIECE OF CRAP OFF MY ROAD I AM AN IMPORTANT PERSON GOING IMPORTANT PLACES.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, as usual, things aren't so clearly polarised. Most people who are cyclists are also drivers, drivers who have to deal with the prospect of some sucktard weaving all over the place at 5km/h going up a hill as often as any other driver.
A polite cyclist will pull over into the gutter and slow down a bit to allow cars to pass. A polite driver will skirt the centre line to give the rider some more space, or overlap into the oncoming lane if safe to do so.
Arseholes drivers are arseholes, arsehole cyclists are arseholes. Go figure.
<!--quoteo(post=1844922:date=May 9 2011, 02:11 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ May 9 2011, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844922"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cyclists are sub-human.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stopped reading all of his posts here.
Seriously why did any of the rest of you bother to read beyond this?
From what I've seen of Temphage's posting they're either an overly invested troll or malignantly stupid. It's probably best to read his posts not as part of the discussion but as an attempt at ironic humour.
Comments
There is no excuse for the driver to do what he did and I never tried to make any for him. But for the riders there is a difference between what you are legally entitled to (not being assaulted) and what you should actually expect when you antagonize people.
That is what I said, they should have seen something like this coming, don't try to make this out like I am defending anyone.
What I am looking for here is where you stand. Who's to blame? Is nobody to blame? Was this all a tragic accident? Or are the cyclists to blame? Did they do something so heinous that mowing them down was a reasonable response? Or is the driver to blame? Did he react to being inconvenienced by brutally assaulting over a dozen people? Is that a reasonable response? Is that an understandable response? Or is that the kind of response that only a choleric madman could come up with?
Actually, I'd say he's about as responsible as someone who intentionally ran down twenty to thirty individual cyclists. Attempted mass vehicular homicide is just about as bad as attempted serial vehicular homicide.
Just as bad as the **** who knifes some guy for calling him names. It's inconvenient. It's no excuse for <i>running people over with a car.</i>
Imagine someone shooting you in the back of the head for cutting in line at the supermarket. And then someone justifying it as that YOU started it, and deserve it for having cut in line. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it. Same with the 'what did you expect?' response.
As for strict adherence to traffic laws, show of hands: How many of you have deliberately violated the speed limit? Wow, that's a lot. Pots & kettles, do that meet 'n greet thing.
In other news, today I bought a bicycle helmet! Now, when a lorry swats me off the road, my head won't break like a coconut. Instead I'll fracture my neck and get to live a fulfilled life as a quadriplegic. Yay!
So I rammed him into a canal.
Avert your gaze, don't make eye contact, and hope they don't decide it's swirly time.
Just as bad as the **** who knifes some guy for calling him names. It's inconvenient. It's no excuse for <i>running people over with a car.</i>
Imagine someone shooting you in the back of the head for cutting in line at the supermarket. And then someone justifying it as that YOU started it, and deserve it for having cut in line. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it. Same with the 'what did you expect?' response.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to question if you are willfully ignoring/misinterpreting what I said.
It sounds like the beginning of the same discussion you and I had. I think it comes down to the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking" target="_blank">"Arson, Murder and Jaywalking"</a> trope. That trope is funny because to even mention jaywalking in the same breath as arson and murder is completely ridiculous. It usually denotes a character who has an extreme black and white morality, i.e. Rorschach of "Watchmen" who will respond harshly to even minor infractions. The reason you've caught flak repeatedly is because you seem disproportionally preoccupied with the cyclists whose infractions fade to insignificance compared to the crime that was perpetrated against them. And also because there are a couple of sociopaths who will actually defend the driver, and it is easy to misinterpret your preoccupation with the cyclists as support for those lunatics.
Cyclists are sub-human. You've made a conscious decision to operate a toy, with the full intention of:
1) Impeding the flow of traffic.
2) Traveling at speeds much, much slower than the road you're on is meant to be traveled at.
3) Operating on a surface designed with the intention of operating high-speed vehicles on it.
3A) Additionally, the entire reason these high-speed vehicles and surfaces exist is to get places quickly.
By using a bicycle you've demonstrated that:
1) You are fully aware of your impact on traffic and therefore must condone it.
2) You've chosen an inferior form of transit and are going out of your way to ensure others are as inconvenienced by your moronic choice as you are, by traveling slow.
3) You've accepted the risks associated with doing this, yet still ###### and moan about it.
Cyclists are little more than sub-human trolls. Riding a bicycle on a road and then getting upset that people are angry at you is akin to bringing a toddler to a Nine Inch Nails concert and then complaining that he got crushed to death in the mosh pit. The solution isn't to organize moronic protests about how people should 'respect' the fact that you are going out of your way to piss people off (literally in some ways).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason you've caught flak repeatedly is because you seem disproportionally preoccupied with the cyclists whose infractions fade to insignificance compared to the crime that was perpetrated against them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The law considers how many times you've committed a crime too. You can be thrown in jail for decades if you've committed a relatively minor crime multiple times.
A single cyclist impedes one car and gets run over? That's ridiculous.
150 cyclists impede dozens of cars for a total of 10,000+ violations?
So don't get worked up over it. Explain why you've chosen a dumb###### form of transit and then feel it's the job over everyone else to travel at 8 MPH for forty minutes, because you're too ###### rude to pull over and let them pass?
Ah yes, I get a huge fine if I don't give you an entire car's width when I pass you, but you get nothing for gliding through a stop sign as if you're a pedestrian. Once again, the bikers are innocent fragile little people and drivers are evil ######s.
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Ah wait a second, lolf, the very video we're talking about here shows bikers <b>blocking an entire road</b>. They're casually strolling at a walking pace, swerving to tie up as much traffic as possible, and utterly refusing to let anyone pass. And why are they doing it? Because they're little more than ######. Oh sure, the real reason might be 'to protest for cyclist rights' or something, but ultimately it comes down to cyclists being ######bags, drivers hate dealing with them because they're ######bags so they treat them like ######, so cyclists cry and moan and get laws passed and become bigger ######bags.
You can say 'their crime doesn't deserve what they got', but elevated levels of ######baggery, a 'critical mass' if you will, deservedly earn a violent response. Someone who is incessantly annoying another person shouldn't be surprised when they get punched in the face.
I don't read most things he writes. I've noticed him on the forums for like 1 day after a long absence and have already contemplated the ignore/block post feature.
And if you really think ######baggery is a motivation for riding a bike, get your head checked.
Ah wait a second, lolf, the very video we're talking about here shows bikers <b>blocking an entire road</b>. They're casually strolling at a walking pace, swerving to tie up as much traffic as possible, and utterly refusing to let anyone pass. And why are they doing it? Because they're little more than ######. Oh sure, the real reason might be 'to protest for cyclist rights' or something, but ultimately it comes down to cyclists being ######bags, drivers hate dealing with them because they're ######bags so they treat them like ######, so cyclists cry and moan and get laws passed and become bigger ######bags.
You can say 'their crime doesn't deserve what they got', but elevated levels of ######baggery, a 'critical mass' if you will, deservedly earn a violent response. Someone who is incessantly annoying another person shouldn't be surprised when they get punched in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell is wrong with you? Do you seriously not see yourself arguing that causing minor irritation to people is an equal crime to attempting to murder and injuring dozens of individuals? As if the former somehow justifies that latter? If you seriously don't understand this, I hope you enjoy prison, I don't think you'll be posting here all too much longer.
No.
The roads are tiny here. As a matter of fact, if you so much as go off the road too much here, you'll go straight into a 10-foot ditch. Driving a full-size truck can be scary at times. Now maybe if you live in Indiana, the roads there are big enough to put 2 more lanes in. Bicyclists cause such horrible traffic problems sometimes that it's almost cost me to be late to work. If you want to be on two wheels in the street so bad, at least get a scooter as their cheap as dirt. Its actually quite humorous to be on a motorcycle and 'pedal' your way past a bicyclist, they get pretty butthurt over it.
Both sides of this stupid argument are being stupid, taking the absolutes of the situation, putting them on a placard and bashing the other side over the head with it.
<!--QuoteBegin-"Cyclists"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Cyclists")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IT'S MY RIGHT TO RIDE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD AT 2KM/H GODDAMNIT, I PAY TAXES TOO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-"Drivers"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Drivers")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->GODDAMNIT GET YOUR SLOW-ARSE PIECE OF CRAP OFF MY ROAD I AM AN IMPORTANT PERSON GOING IMPORTANT PLACES.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, as usual, things aren't so clearly polarised. Most people who are cyclists are also drivers, drivers who have to deal with the prospect of some sucktard weaving all over the place at 5km/h going up a hill as often as any other driver.
A polite cyclist will pull over into the gutter and slow down a bit to allow cars to pass. A polite driver will skirt the centre line to give the rider some more space, or overlap into the oncoming lane if safe to do so.
Arseholes drivers are arseholes, arsehole cyclists are arseholes. Go figure.
--Scythe--
Stopped reading all of his posts here.
Seriously why did any of the rest of you bother to read beyond this?