Basic Gameplay and game Improvements
mobetta
Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72693Banned
Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72693Banned
MMMk so these are some of my ideas on the gameplay and how it should be improved.
#1 Time Limit
This is big imo. As far as i know there are no game mode in ns its just ns. U spawn in a try to kill the other team. Which is fine but first one must ask themself what is this game. Its a mp game that is rts and fps. This is a style made for competition which i love. Well for a number of reason a time limit on the game is really a must. When teams start to play they dont want to play scrims that last 2 hours. Lans and online tournaments dont want to grind down the bracket. Some games are fast but when you get skilled players they will tend to not die easy. So what does this time limit do. Well lets set it at 30 mins. So if no team is killed in 30 mins of play then the team that gathered the most tres during thos 30 mins will be the winner(not the team that has the most at the end of the game but the team that gathered the most). What are the benefits of that? Well it will force people to attack and go forth into the map. It will allow lans to predict times better. It will allow scrims to be enjoyable. It will allow shoutcasters to not die. Improves the value of res towers and map control. In general it will make the game better. Because people will attack and try to get thos res towers down or try and kill there command stations or hives.
#2 Limit hydra and turret / cooldown combo
Ok so why you ask. Well there just damn to many of them. They dont enforce player skill at all and it kills the game imo. How should they be limited? 10 hydras at anytime and 10 turrets at any time. If you place a 11th then the oldest one dies. Also there should be a cooldown. 30 seconds cooldown. So a gorge cant do a drive by hydra spam. So what do people use these for. Defense mainly. They have a room and want to keep it or they built something and want to keep it. Well this is dumb. If your com builds something then you players should be the ones for the defense. Limiting these will increase the value of teamwork and communication and skill invulved with taking rooms and points. Plus when there are a lot of hydras and turrets it just kills the servers. The game should focus more on the players for attacking and defense not turrets and hydras. This will make you want to place the turrets and hydras in sneaky places and keep them repaired.
#3 DI needs less health
Ok so i know that uwe is reworking the di system but as it is right now the di is to hard to kill. Because its so easy to the alien com to just replace the one u killed. It takes longer for the com to give you more ammo then it does for the alien com to reconnect the di line. In general i hope the new system is better.
#4 Skulks have gone to hell
Idk wtf happend but the skulks about 10 builds ago was perfect. Now they blow. Not only is the bite all rubbish but the movement is sluggish and not responsive. Why well imo its way to ###### sticky. There needs to be about 70% less sticky on the skulks. I believe the skulk seems slower on the ground because he has to move aganist the increased stickyness. It has just broken the combat you cant strafe around a guy without getting pulled or tugged. It takes the percision away from the aimming. I aim at a guy and the game pulls my aim away because im near a wall or a box or a pipe. Also in one of the builds you guys made it so when u where on the wall the cam would tilt. That was cool but you took that out? Why? Overall the skulk needs to to more damage move about 10% faster and the jump imo should be lessend not as far. Overall please fix the skulk.
#5 Specatator / Shoutcaster support
Well this is a compettive game as that it will need good spec and shoutcaster items. Firstperson spec thrid person spec names health easy to see teams res and progress. Free cam. Stream support. Just over all UWE you need to look at yourself and say this.
I want to run a ns2 lan tournament. What will i need. Linux servers.. Shoutcasters. Stream service. So on and so on. No say your a shoutcaster. How would you like it. You would like it to be easy. Easy to see player names and what teams are doing and so on. All these need to be worked on. This game is a mp competitve game and if it ships without high class revolutionary esport features and support it will be a major fail on your part. When people get the game they dont want to have to wait for mod tools so they can fix the game. They want to scrim day one and its a big deal imo. These really need to be in the game and being tested. The fact that there not in the beta yet really shows that you dont care about esports imo. They need to be testing and flawless for release.
Thos are the ideas that really pop out at me after playing awhile today. I might come up with more later and if i do ill post here again but i really think this would improve the game.
#1 Time Limit
This is big imo. As far as i know there are no game mode in ns its just ns. U spawn in a try to kill the other team. Which is fine but first one must ask themself what is this game. Its a mp game that is rts and fps. This is a style made for competition which i love. Well for a number of reason a time limit on the game is really a must. When teams start to play they dont want to play scrims that last 2 hours. Lans and online tournaments dont want to grind down the bracket. Some games are fast but when you get skilled players they will tend to not die easy. So what does this time limit do. Well lets set it at 30 mins. So if no team is killed in 30 mins of play then the team that gathered the most tres during thos 30 mins will be the winner(not the team that has the most at the end of the game but the team that gathered the most). What are the benefits of that? Well it will force people to attack and go forth into the map. It will allow lans to predict times better. It will allow scrims to be enjoyable. It will allow shoutcasters to not die. Improves the value of res towers and map control. In general it will make the game better. Because people will attack and try to get thos res towers down or try and kill there command stations or hives.
#2 Limit hydra and turret / cooldown combo
Ok so why you ask. Well there just damn to many of them. They dont enforce player skill at all and it kills the game imo. How should they be limited? 10 hydras at anytime and 10 turrets at any time. If you place a 11th then the oldest one dies. Also there should be a cooldown. 30 seconds cooldown. So a gorge cant do a drive by hydra spam. So what do people use these for. Defense mainly. They have a room and want to keep it or they built something and want to keep it. Well this is dumb. If your com builds something then you players should be the ones for the defense. Limiting these will increase the value of teamwork and communication and skill invulved with taking rooms and points. Plus when there are a lot of hydras and turrets it just kills the servers. The game should focus more on the players for attacking and defense not turrets and hydras. This will make you want to place the turrets and hydras in sneaky places and keep them repaired.
#3 DI needs less health
Ok so i know that uwe is reworking the di system but as it is right now the di is to hard to kill. Because its so easy to the alien com to just replace the one u killed. It takes longer for the com to give you more ammo then it does for the alien com to reconnect the di line. In general i hope the new system is better.
#4 Skulks have gone to hell
Idk wtf happend but the skulks about 10 builds ago was perfect. Now they blow. Not only is the bite all rubbish but the movement is sluggish and not responsive. Why well imo its way to ###### sticky. There needs to be about 70% less sticky on the skulks. I believe the skulk seems slower on the ground because he has to move aganist the increased stickyness. It has just broken the combat you cant strafe around a guy without getting pulled or tugged. It takes the percision away from the aimming. I aim at a guy and the game pulls my aim away because im near a wall or a box or a pipe. Also in one of the builds you guys made it so when u where on the wall the cam would tilt. That was cool but you took that out? Why? Overall the skulk needs to to more damage move about 10% faster and the jump imo should be lessend not as far. Overall please fix the skulk.
#5 Specatator / Shoutcaster support
Well this is a compettive game as that it will need good spec and shoutcaster items. Firstperson spec thrid person spec names health easy to see teams res and progress. Free cam. Stream support. Just over all UWE you need to look at yourself and say this.
I want to run a ns2 lan tournament. What will i need. Linux servers.. Shoutcasters. Stream service. So on and so on. No say your a shoutcaster. How would you like it. You would like it to be easy. Easy to see player names and what teams are doing and so on. All these need to be worked on. This game is a mp competitve game and if it ships without high class revolutionary esport features and support it will be a major fail on your part. When people get the game they dont want to have to wait for mod tools so they can fix the game. They want to scrim day one and its a big deal imo. These really need to be in the game and being tested. The fact that there not in the beta yet really shows that you dont care about esports imo. They need to be testing and flawless for release.
Thos are the ideas that really pop out at me after playing awhile today. I might come up with more later and if i do ill post here again but i really think this would improve the game.
Comments
and yes to spec support. should be nice
and #4 ... ouhhmm i dunno. maybe .. hm. but with less stickiness it would be really hard to move on those detailed walls..
maybe not a no-more-sticky button but a I-stay-the-hell-on-the-wall button
Also i had another idea about the alien night vision. Theres really no detractor for it. You can just leave it on and it does nothing but help you. Maybe what could be done is a near sighted effect that makes it so everything in see 10 feet from you is clear but everything farther away gets fuzzy and really far things are really fuzzy. So like a depth of field effect the other way around.
HELL NO! That would make the game boring! Alot of people love the randomness of the games, where you can have a game that lasts 2 minutes, and you can have one that lasts 2 hours. And that is good for the game. A 30 minute time limit would be game breaking! No RTS/FPS or RTS games have this, because it would destroy the gameplay completely. Instead UWE should work on these stalemates in other ways. One way of dealing with them is limiting Team Resources to 100 so players cant re-arm/re-evolve a houndred times, even if they are getting hammered down by the other team. Excess TRes should be given to your teammates like on the alien side in NS1.
#2 Limit hydra and turret / cooldown combo
Maximum 10 on a whole map? That would just make the GL useless. Instead they should make a "Number of hydras within hydras range".
That could be somewhere between 5 and 10, that takes alot of balancing. Same with sentry turrets of course. If you just limited it to 10 hydras/sentrys, that way it would be balanced out on all the maps and the GL would still be usefull.
#3 DI needs less health
They already know this. And they are working on it.
#4 Skulks have gone to hell
They already know this. And they are working on it.
#5 Specatator / Shoutcaster support
They already know this. And they will be working on it at some later point. Not sure about the linux support though.
I agree tho they should limit the trez and irez so it doesnt just build up massive amounts.
Plus the crag whip shift shade so no the GL would ne usefull. Hydras and turrets need a limit.
I agree tho they should limit the trez and irez so it doesnt just build up massive amounts.
Plus the crag whip shift shade so no the GL would ne usefull. Hydras and turrets need a limit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't really seem to see what i'm suggestion for a fix of this;
"Number of hydras within hydras range"
And as for the gorge jumping in and placing 4 hydras and running away, you must be a terrible aimer if you cant kill him before he places one of them. No offense, but gorges are easy to kill if they are not defended.
Although i agree on what others have said on the forums, the hitbox for hydras should be bigger so they are easier to kill with other weapons than the GL.
Team res should not be limited, but Personal res should.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus the crag whip shift shade so no the GL would ne usefull.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of those structures are easy to take down with the other weapons.
Hydras is the basic defense of aliens, and they should not have bad limitations like "amount of structures for the whole team"; that is balance breaking.
Map sizes are different, so it wouldn't balance.
I'm quoting myself once again;
"Number of hydras within hydras range"
Personally i'd say "5 hydras within hydras range" and test it out.
That way gorges would still be able to use their resources, by placing hydras in a more exposed position. (And not spamming them in the same place) And at the same time expose himself for enemy fire, possibly risking his life.
Edit: If you don't find it fun to play more then 30 minutes, then quit after 30 minutes.
"Number of hydras within hydras range"
And as for the gorge jumping in and placing 4 hydras and running away, you must be a terrible aimer if you cant kill him before he places one of them. No offense, but gorges are easy to kill if they are not defended.
Although i agree on what others have said on the forums, the hitbox for hydras should be bigger so they are easier to kill with other weapons than the GL.
Team res should not be limited, but Personal res should.
All of those structures are easy to take down with the other weapons.
Hydras is the basic defense of aliens, and they should not have bad limitations like "amount of structures for the whole team"; that is balance breaking.
Map sizes are different, so it wouldn't balance.
I'm quoting myself once again;
"Number of hydras within hydras range"
Personally i'd say "5 hydras within hydras range" and test it out.
That way gorges would still be able to use their resources, by placing hydras in a more exposed position. (And not spamming them in the same place) And at the same time expose himself for enemy fire, possibly risking his life.
Edit: If you don't find it fun to play more then 30 minutes, then quit after 30 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No i understand what you said i still dont agree. IT shouldnt be the hydras defending anything. It should be the players themself! If you can just plop hydras down and walk away never having to worry about your base then it not very skillfull. They should just be there for support and right now they just take over the game. As far as range will it needs to be 10 hydras to a side of the map or something. Turrets are less ###### because it costs tres but they use some nerfing too. But beyond anything a cooldown will help the most.
Gorges infact have a decent amount of health and no im not that bad of a shot but its not hard to run in a plop hydras down really fast. It takes no skill.
In no way is it balance breaking the defense of aliens should be the.... aliens! not there hydras. The real players should have to defend there stuff. Hydras and turrets are far to effective in the game as it stands.
And no games are boring when they get into a long grind with massive hydra endusing lag.
Its not a bad limitations. It forces the team to be focused. Say the marines are attacking the left side of the map well then lets rotate our guys and hydras over there. They go to the right rotate back. They double dip then you have to be fast. Maybe no finite limit but a room with more then 10 hydras/turrets is not good imo.
Gorges infact have a decent amount of health and no im not that bad of a shot but its not hard to run in a plop hydras down really fast. It takes no skill.
In no way is it balance breaking the defense of aliens should be the.... aliens! not there hydras. The real players should have to defend there stuff. Hydras and turrets are far to effective in the game as it stands.
And no games are boring when they get into a long grind with massive hydra endusing lag.
Its not a bad limitations. It forces the team to be focused. Say the marines are attacking the left side of the map well then lets rotate our guys and hydras over there. They go to the right rotate back. They double dip then you have to be fast. Maybe no finite limit but a room with more then 10 hydras/turrets is not good imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure it's not very fun when the server can't handle the amount of stuctures created, how would any game be fun in that situation? Tell me..
Things like that will be fixed later on in the beta, you should know that by now.
No it doesn't take any skill to put down hydras, I agree with you there. But they are indeed the aliens basic defense, and it works quite well that way. But if you can't shoot the gorge coming in and putting down hydras on the tip of your toes, then yeah, you must be a bad shot :P The rifle takes a gorge down rather quickly if the gorge isn't defended.
It's a bad limitation to have "Maximum available number of structures to the whole team".
Map sizes are SOO different. So that limitation would NOT balance from map to map. If you don't see this, I don't get you. Instead, a limitation of how many you could put down in the same place of the map; ie. "Number of hydras within hydras range" would balance out great of all the maps, if you find the right number! But thats where it takes ALOT of testing to get it right.
That would fix the problem of having alot of turrets/hydras in the same room. As you say so yourself, is a problem.
But hydras isn't really that much of a problem, I dont know how much you have played the game? I have something like 150 hours of ingame time.
Early game gorges obviously can't drop that many, it takes a while before you can put several hydras down. They can maybe put down two or three hydras down before the first marine push. And against rifles/pistols and medpacks, they go down very easy if they are not defended by aliens. Later on in the game, where you get these 'hydras forests', you should have the Grenade Launcher available, and a team of shotguns and GLs is really powerful against these 'hydra forests' and lifeforms at the same time. So if hydras isn't defended, then they go down easily to a pack of marines with the support of the commander.
But the thing is about hydras, your commander have to put down medpacks if he wants you to take them down, so if you feel like these hydras are too powerful, then maybe its because that the commander sees you as a rambo, and don't give you medpacks.
This game is about teamwork, without it you can't do much of a difference in the game.
And for the turrets its basicly the same, if several lifeforms go in at the same time, they take down turrets very easy and very fast.
Yea that a hydra forests that shouldn't be possible. They do take a while to clear out and a lerk will just spore you to death in the process.
If you want this "Number of hydras within hydras range" then it needs to be a low number like only 5 others with in the range of one. But a cooldown and a price increase or a ires cap i think would fix the problem and force the players to be more active in defending there rooms.
I have played alot of the beta and alpha so i do know that hydras used to pretty much suck but now there really good. To good imo. Turrets arnt as big of a deal but can be a pain when they build alot too.
In general i think there needs to be something done. I would be sad if they left it the way it is now.
Hydras take 2-3 shots from the GL and that is pretty fast. If youre up against hydras and a lerk, your commander should drop medpacks for you, if he wants you to be able to kill it.
<!--quoteo(post=1847908:date=May 22 2011, 05:26 PM:name=mobetta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mobetta @ May 22 2011, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want this "Number of hydras within hydras range" then it needs to be a low number like only 5 others with in the range of one. But a cooldown and a price increase or a ires cap i think would fix the problem and force the players to be more active in defending there rooms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not exactly what my image discribed. It discribed that; the range of five hydras could overlap with each other. No other hydras could be build if the range overlapped these five. And yes in my opinion they should cost 15 Resources instead of 10. They do not need a cooldown, they already cost resources. And yes a Personal Resources cap at 100 (like aliens had in NS1) would fit great for both sides, it would prevent stalemates alot, where as people are currently able to buy alot more guns/lifeforms/hydras in the late game, even though they are getting seriously hammered by the other team.
<!--quoteo(post=1847908:date=May 22 2011, 05:26 PM:name=mobetta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mobetta @ May 22 2011, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have played alot of the beta and alpha so i do know that hydras used to pretty much suck but now there really good. To good imo. Turrets arnt as big of a deal but can be a pain when they build alot too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now they are too good? A single GL marine can take them down very fast.
Turrets should have the same type of cap as i suggested to hydras. Maybe not the same number, alot of testing is needed to find these numbers.
I don't see turret spam as a problem, if the marines can afford these 20 TRes turrets, they might deserve them as well as aliens can afford more hydras with higher resource income. They are still something that you can take down(GL for hydras, lerksnipe/gorgespit/bilebomb etc. for turrets) and the enemy will waste the resources they used on that structure. Especially if its newly build.