<!--quoteo(post=1847853:date=May 22 2011, 10:06 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ May 22 2011, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The marines can buy a new ability : taming. A marine is able to perform a dangerous intimidation dance in front of the onos, if he fails the onos eats him. If the taming is a success the onos switch team and the marine jump on his back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1847844:date=May 22 2011, 07:44 AM:name=chrisfoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chrisfoose @ May 22 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just remember in Ns1 the battles being more epic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS2 will get there. As performance continues to improve the servers will be able to handle more players. When jetpack marines are flying around some of the new larger maps, when you see a door shaking and denting then bursting out of its frame as a giant Onos smashes its way through it, and when a duel minigun wielding Exosuit stomps into a room and starts blasting, I think that epic battle feeling will start to come back.
<!--quoteo(post=1847814:date=May 22 2011, 12:19 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ May 22 2011, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as far as commander and marine/alien relation goes, you're seeing a lot of john rambos now because it's just a beta. I'd be surprised if there were more than a handful of players who play the beta seriously for fame and glory. most people who hop into the commander chair don't know what they're doing yet as in upgrading and giving orders. likewise, the marines can't depend on commanders for support like dropping health and ammo. maybe 1 in 5 commanders actually responds to my request. and then there's the fact that you won't see more than a dozen people on one server, mostly just several, and because of that the essence of teamwork is harder to see.
come launch and 24-32 player servers, teamwork will be there whether people actively try to use it or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Most of the people playing NS2 are NS1 vets. The game simply doesn't have that much expose outside of the pre-existing community. It's not on Steam, it's not being advertised much outside of word-of-mouth. Whilst it's true that most of the players don't have a lot of NS2 experience (since the game hasn't been too playable for much of it's release time), I'd say that most of the current players did play NS1, so they know about teamwork.
It's just that NS2 currently makes it more easy to rambo. Weapons used to be a reward for following orders and being a good shot; now you can just waltz right up to the armoury and kit yourself out, no problem. The armoury even heals you too, and repairs your armour. No need to pester the comm for a medpack or ask someone else for a weld. You've got independence to do whatever you like.
Of course you had rambos in NS1. Heck, sometimes you kitted people out specifically for that purpose (jetpacker with HMG to take down a Hive). But without displaying at least some level of teamwork, your average rambo had buckley's chance of getting heavy weapons.
All this being said, I should point out that this will most likely change as NS2 continues to develop, but not because of experience or players themselves evolving. It will change because the game will punish rambos. Currently the netcode makes Skulk attacks dicey things, and half the alien tech tree is absent. Once we've got silent or invisable skulks hiding around the map rambos are going to drop way off. Not to mention Onoses showing up. The higher alien life forms and bases are supposed to require teamwork to take on, and once they're properly implimented marines won't have a choice; they'll have to use teamwork or perish.
I just hope they change how commander and armory works. marines have too much independence now, they rely more on the armory rather than the actual commander. You listed pretty much everything wrong in this relationship.
<!--quoteo(post=1848100:date=May 24 2011, 01:59 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 24 2011, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well said Ryo-Ohki.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1 <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--quoteo(post=1848100:date=May 24 2011, 01:59 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 24 2011, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just hope they change how commander and armory works. marines have too much independence now, they rely more on the armory rather than the actual commander. You listed pretty much everything wrong in this relationship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with your there.
They also said that they will allow the commander to drop weapons again.
I could imagine a problem with this...
Pure NS1 commanders will NOT build an armoury (Or put it in an area unreachable by a marine) and make the marines work for the weapons. As mean and trolling as this seems... I think that this is quite a good idea :P
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1848121:date=May 24 2011, 02:38 AM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ May 24 2011, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.. Pure NS1 commanders will NOT build an armoury (Or put it in an area unreachable by a marine) and make the marines work for the weapons...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
good that you mention it. i hope uwe considers this possibility
Um, no. If comms are to drop weapons, then that should come out of their own pockets (personal res). And if they want to drop weapons, they're going to need an armoury.
The marine comm is a babysitter. You want him to be even moreso. How about going the other way? How about making playing as a marine comm actually interesting in its own right?
<!--quoteo(post=1848121:date=May 24 2011, 06:38 AM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ May 24 2011, 06:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[color="#00FF00"]+1 Pure NS1 commanders will NOT build an armoury (Or put it in an area unreachable by a marine) and make the marines work for the weapons. As mean and trolling as this seems... I think that this is quite a good idea :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The marine commander will still need to have an armory built, in order to be able to drop weapons. And since he's using his personal res to buy them, its unlikely that he'll be able to buy weapons for his whole team. Its meant more to allow the commander to reward good players with a gun here or there, rather then as a feasible option to circumvent players purchasing their own weapons.
<!--quoteo(post=1847730:date=May 21 2011, 04:52 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ May 21 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To address one of your points, the next build allows the marine comm to buy and drop weapons for his players. Not that that ability is being <i>removed</i> from the marines, but both will be able to do so. That way the comm can reward reliable players, but those that want to rambo aren't left totally out in the cold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This feature will be almost useless ! In most situations the reliable player will stay alive much longer compared to the unreliable one. This leads to the pressure that the commander will have to give weapons to lower skilled players just for arming the whole team.
It's ofcourse an interesting alternative, if you want to perform for example a shotgun rush based on team ressources instead of off individual ressources.
I can understand OPs point, but I'm pretty sure the way commanding worked in NS1 isn't going to help NS2 alot. It will work on a competetive level, but for relaxing custom matches the whole game depends on that NS1 commander, which is a bad thing in a way. The best solution would be to encourage team playstyle and the marine commander being able to guide his marines and encourage team behaviour without taking away most of the newly introduced freedoms of the individual marine. Remember why the NS2 marines have those freedoms, being independend is a good thing, but it seems to have backfired to some extend.
The question remains: how do you accomplish just that ? And I doubt giving commander and marines both options on being able to build and arm oneself is going to accomplish that.
<!--quoteo(post=1848210:date=May 24 2011, 12:29 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 24 2011, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The marine commander will still need to have an armory built, in order to be able to drop weapons. And since he's using his personal res to buy them, its unlikely that he'll be able to buy weapons for his whole team. Its meant more to allow the commander to reward good players with a gun here or there, rather then as a feasible option to circumvent players purchasing their own weapons.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would make more sense to simply not allow whoever is in the command chair to gain personal res. Dropping weapons doesn't make much sense in the context of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1848225:date=May 24 2011, 10:40 AM:name=dnleech)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dnleech @ May 24 2011, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would make more sense to simply not allow whoever is in the command chair to gain personal res. Dropping weapons doesn't make much sense in the context of NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. I think this feature will be rarely used
But having the option is to do so is alright, to buy a newly joined player a shotgun in the lategame.
<!--quoteo(post=1848225:date=May 24 2011, 06:40 PM:name=dnleech)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dnleech @ May 24 2011, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would make more sense to simply not allow whoever is in the command chair to gain personal res. Dropping weapons doesn't make much sense in the context of NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, why?
I mean the commander can materialise buildings, ammo, health, and robots out of the ether, why not guns?
I can't see it being hugely useful but if someone is out in the field and you research a new gun, you can just drop it for them, which saves them from having to go back to base, it also makes defending a base easier if you drop some guns near the IP because people can get into the fight faster.
one of the best ways to exploit getting some free personal res, jumping in into the command chair to do some basic things, and getting points for it. since we can have more than one commander in the chair, think of the possibilities.
personal res needs to be capped if anything else. I've had games where i had 250+ personal res points, I can rambo all I want, and respawn, buy the weapon i want and repeat the process - I'm sure everyone else on my team had same amount which is pretty sad, and overpowering at the same time. tweaking how we get personal res, and capping it is the best way.
Other method would be limiting the armory, right now the armory supplies marines to be far more independent. The armory would still supply weapons but only certain types, allow the commander to reward players with better weapons.
allowing the commander to drop weapons doesn't fix the problem already exists, even though it might be good addition. We need to fix armory vs commander problem.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Crap, sucks, ruined<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree. It may take out the degree in skill required in order to have a fighting force with a good commander, but it takes out the frustrating barrier between new players and experienced marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1848245:date=May 24 2011, 08:50 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 24 2011, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't see it being hugely useful but if someone is out in the field and you research a new gun, you can just drop it for them, which saves them from having to go back to base<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We were assuming it would be like in NS1 and only droppable near the armoury. If it isn't, that could be interesting.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine Commander is crap now.
The marine commander sucks in NS2. They ruined it by allowing marines to be independent.
NS2 is ruined because of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this is the level of constructive criticism you're going to give, please just go and play NS1 and don't come back.
Back on to point. I agree that allowing the commander to drop weapons seems like a redundant game mechanic that really won't make a big difference. As people, including me, have mention before, give the commander more control of how the armory dispenses weapons. Allow the commander to recommend load outs and even lock down how many of each weapon can be on the battle field at once. This makes perfect sense since the commander has a much better awareness of the battlefield and what weapons are needed to deal with the current threats. It also reestablishes the link between commander and soldier without completely removing marine independence.
I'm personally a fan of the new system, but I do think it needs refined more. Right now it is very rough in how it operates within the larger macro mechanics of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1848252:date=May 24 2011, 08:04 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 24 2011, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->personal res needs to be capped if anything else. I've had games where i had 250+ personal res points, I can rambo all I want, and respawn, buy the weapon i want and repeat the process - I'm sure everyone else on my team had same amount which is pretty sad, and overpowering at the same time. tweaking how we get personal res, and capping it is the best way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The res flow has been adjusted, so having an overflow of res will no longer be a typical case. Another thing to consider is there is still a lack of things to spend resources on. Jetpacks, Exos, and alien upgrades will all eat up players res, once those things are in.
i'm glad to hear res flow has been adjusted, and I hope to see that difference in the next build. Though it still doesn't change the relationship between armory vs commander even if marines have more things to choice from. marines are too Independent, armory seriously must be limited to certain types of weapons, allow the commander to supply the higher tech gear while the lower tech gear can be gotten through the armory.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1848269:date=May 24 2011, 10:32 PM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ May 24 2011, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. It may take out the degree in skill required in order to have a fighting force with a good commander, but it takes out the frustrating barrier between new players and experienced marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is true, the only problem with NS was that the experienced players ripped through the new players. Even going commander as soon as you start playing the and you get a noose around your neck. Going marine in them days was a very bad choice...
I just really want to have the connection between the commander and the marines back :( Please UWE I beg of you for mercy! Allow commanders to properly command!
<!--quoteo(post=1848303:date=May 25 2011, 03:42 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 25 2011, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848303"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm glad to hear res flow has been adjusted, and I hope to see that difference in the next build. Though it still doesn't change the relationship between armory vs commander even if marines have more things to choice from. marines are too Independent, armory seriously must be limited to certain types of weapons, allow the commander to supply the higher tech gear while the lower tech gear can be gotten through the armory.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edit: I just thought of something for the armour and the commander.
How about if the armour ONLY supplies the rifle and upgrades for the rifle. The rifle will be the only independent weapon for the marines. They get to choose what type they get. Just add more attachments to the rifle like the you did with the Grenade-Launcher and remove the Flame-thrower and Shotgun so ONLY the commander can buy them. That way the marines still have a bit of independence and the marine commander has a bit more control.
The problem with this is that it requires more weapons to make.
<!--quoteo(post=1848303:date=May 24 2011, 10:42 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 24 2011, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848303"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though it still doesn't change the relationship between armory vs commander even if marines have more things to choice from. marines are too Independent, armory seriously must be limited to certain types of weapons, allow the commander to supply the higher tech gear while the lower tech gear can be gotten through the armory.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This should be left up to individual squads. A Commander is in charge of strategy, not tactics. There is a difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1848472:date=May 26 2011, 03:10 AM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ May 26 2011, 03:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about if the armour ONLY supplies the rifle and upgrades for the rifle. The rifle will be the only independent weapon for the marines. They get to choose what type they get. Just add more attachments to the rifle like the you did with the Grenade-Launcher and remove the Flame-thrower and Shotgun so ONLY the commander can buy them. That way the marines still have a bit of independence and the marine commander has a bit more control.
The problem with this is that it requires more weapons to make.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> This is way too limiting. There are ways to encourage commanders and players to work together without making them hopelessly dependent on one another. That was a weakness of NS1 (outside of organized play), not a feature.
<!--quoteo(post=1848583:date=May 26 2011, 01:19 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ May 26 2011, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see much gain in a commander purchasing guns still.
How about since the res flow is being adjusted...
Not the commander but teammates can purchase a gun for someone else. It would encourage an i-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine attitude.
That buddy of yours that ...just came home from work ...just jumped into NS2 ...has no personal res ...buy him a shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Commander is your teammate. Also, your teammates can become commanders.
<!--quoteo(post=1848591:date=May 26 2011, 01:57 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 26 2011, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Commander is your teammate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks Kuban... i was not aware he was my teammate. :-)
my point was keeping with the marines buy their own guns philosophy. and the fact that I do not talk directly with the commander at all times but probably with the guy i steam talked with.
kuban you seriously not seeing the whole problem with commander vs armory - marines far to independent and do not rely on the commander as they once did. marine and commander must be more united, as they were in ns1.
commander must play larger role in supplying his marines. The reason they made armory the way it is now, they wanted everyone to get weapons easily, and enjoy the game but they've killed the important relationship marines had with their commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1848578:date=May 26 2011, 05:43 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 26 2011, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are ways to encourage commanders and players to work together without making them hopelessly dependent on one another. That was a weakness of NS1 (outside of organized play), not a feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the NS1 dominant commander is one of those higher highs - lower lows kinds of features. When it works, it's a thing of beauty - when it doesn't it gets game breaking.
I think most of the huge mainstream games these days are too scared of having bad moments. While it's nice that you can have your passable gaming experience more often, it often comes at the cost of having less memorable and intense game in general. When the game doesn't expect anything from the gamers it ends up taking away from the feeling of achieving something.
I can definitely see why most games tend to eliminate any expectations towards the players, but I don't want to treat it as a self explanatory or completely positive thing. I think especially indie companies sometimes have a chance of going against that design ideology and standing out from the crowd in a positive way.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
As the game is getting closer to full release, we will without doubt see the marine/commander relationship being worked on, in a lot of other ways than just dropping down equipment.
Comments
Sounds pretty sick ¬. ¬
NS2 will get there. As performance continues to improve the servers will be able to handle more players. When jetpack marines are flying around some of the new larger maps, when you see a door shaking and denting then bursting out of its frame as a giant Onos smashes its way through it, and when a duel minigun wielding Exosuit stomps into a room and starts blasting, I think that epic battle feeling will start to come back.
--Cory
What will do you think the recommended server system requirements for a 32 player server when game is complete?
come launch and 24-32 player servers, teamwork will be there whether people actively try to use it or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Most of the people playing NS2 are NS1 vets. The game simply doesn't have that much expose outside of the pre-existing community. It's not on Steam, it's not being advertised much outside of word-of-mouth. Whilst it's true that most of the players don't have a lot of NS2 experience (since the game hasn't been too playable for much of it's release time), I'd say that most of the current players did play NS1, so they know about teamwork.
It's just that NS2 currently makes it more easy to rambo. Weapons used to be a reward for following orders and being a good shot; now you can just waltz right up to the armoury and kit yourself out, no problem. The armoury even heals you too, and repairs your armour. No need to pester the comm for a medpack or ask someone else for a weld. You've got independence to do whatever you like.
Of course you had rambos in NS1. Heck, sometimes you kitted people out specifically for that purpose (jetpacker with HMG to take down a Hive). But without displaying at least some level of teamwork, your average rambo had buckley's chance of getting heavy weapons.
All this being said, I should point out that this will most likely change as NS2 continues to develop, but not because of experience or players themselves evolving. It will change because the game will punish rambos. Currently the netcode makes Skulk attacks dicey things, and half the alien tech tree is absent. Once we've got silent or invisable skulks hiding around the map rambos are going to drop way off. Not to mention Onoses showing up. The higher alien life forms and bases are supposed to require teamwork to take on, and once they're properly implimented marines won't have a choice; they'll have to use teamwork or perish.
I just hope they change how commander and armory works. marines have too much independence now, they rely more on the armory rather than the actual commander. You listed pretty much everything wrong in this relationship.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1848100:date=May 24 2011, 01:59 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 24 2011, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just hope they change how commander and armory works. marines have too much independence now, they rely more on the armory rather than the actual commander. You listed pretty much everything wrong in this relationship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with your there.
They also said that they will allow the commander to drop weapons again.
I could imagine a problem with this...
Pure NS1 commanders will NOT build an armoury (Or put it in an area unreachable by a marine) and make the marines work for the weapons. As mean and trolling as this seems... I think that this is quite a good idea :P
good that you mention it. i hope uwe considers this possibility
The marine comm is a babysitter. You want him to be even moreso.
How about going the other way? How about making playing as a marine comm actually interesting in its own right?
Pure NS1 commanders will NOT build an armoury (Or put it in an area unreachable by a marine) and make the marines work for the weapons. As mean and trolling as this seems... I think that this is quite a good idea :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The marine commander will still need to have an armory built, in order to be able to drop weapons. And since he's using his personal res to buy them, its unlikely that he'll be able to buy weapons for his whole team. Its meant more to allow the commander to reward good players with a gun here or there, rather then as a feasible option to circumvent players purchasing their own weapons.
--Cory
This feature will be almost useless !
In most situations the reliable player will stay alive much longer compared to the unreliable one.
This leads to the pressure that the commander will have to give weapons to lower skilled players just for arming the whole team.
It's ofcourse an interesting alternative, if you want to perform for example a shotgun rush based on team ressources instead of off individual ressources.
I can understand OPs point, but I'm pretty sure the way commanding worked in NS1 isn't going to help NS2 alot.
It will work on a competetive level, but for relaxing custom matches the whole game depends on that NS1 commander, which is a bad thing in a way.
The best solution would be to encourage team playstyle and the marine commander being able to guide his marines and encourage team behaviour without taking away most of the newly introduced freedoms of the individual marine.
Remember why the NS2 marines have those freedoms, being independend is a good thing, but it seems to have backfired to some extend.
The question remains: how do you accomplish just that ? And I doubt giving commander and marines both options on being able to build and arm oneself is going to accomplish that.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would make more sense to simply not allow whoever is in the command chair to gain personal res. Dropping weapons doesn't make much sense in the context of NS2.
This.
I think this feature will be rarely used
But having the option is to do so is alright, to buy a newly joined player a shotgun in the lategame.
Er, why?
I mean the commander can materialise buildings, ammo, health, and robots out of the ether, why not guns?
I can't see it being hugely useful but if someone is out in the field and you research a new gun, you can just drop it for them, which saves them from having to go back to base, it also makes defending a base easier if you drop some guns near the IP because people can get into the fight faster.
Not required, but occasionally very helpful.
personal res needs to be capped if anything else. I've had games where i had 250+ personal res points, I can rambo all I want, and respawn, buy the weapon i want and repeat the process - I'm sure everyone else on my team had same amount which is pretty sad, and overpowering at the same time. tweaking how we get personal res, and capping it is the best way.
Other method would be limiting the armory, right now the armory supplies marines to be far more independent. The armory would still supply weapons but only certain types, allow the commander to reward players with better weapons.
allowing the commander to drop weapons doesn't fix the problem already exists, even though it might be good addition. We need to fix armory vs commander problem.
The marine commander sucks in NS2. They ruined it by allowing marines to be independent.
NS2 is ruined because of that.
I disagree. It may take out the degree in skill required in order to have a fighting force with a good commander, but it takes out the frustrating barrier between new players and experienced marines.
We were assuming it would be like in NS1 and only droppable near the armoury. If it isn't, that could be interesting.
The marine commander sucks in NS2. They ruined it by allowing marines to be independent.
NS2 is ruined because of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this is the level of constructive criticism you're going to give, please just go and play NS1 and don't come back.
Back on to point. I agree that allowing the commander to drop weapons seems like a redundant game mechanic that really won't make a big difference. As people, including me, have mention before, give the commander more control of how the armory dispenses weapons. Allow the commander to recommend load outs and even lock down how many of each weapon can be on the battle field at once. This makes perfect sense since the commander has a much better awareness of the battlefield and what weapons are needed to deal with the current threats. It also reestablishes the link between commander and soldier without completely removing marine independence.
I'm personally a fan of the new system, but I do think it needs refined more. Right now it is very rough in how it operates within the larger macro mechanics of the game.
The res flow has been adjusted, so having an overflow of res will no longer be a typical case. Another thing to consider is there is still a lack of things to spend resources on. Jetpacks, Exos, and alien upgrades will all eat up players res, once those things are in.
Though it still doesn't change the relationship between armory vs commander even if marines have more things to choice from. marines are too Independent, armory seriously must be limited to certain types of weapons, allow the commander to supply the higher tech gear while the lower tech gear can be gotten through the armory.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.
That is true, the only problem with NS was that the experienced players ripped through the new players. Even going commander as soon as you start playing the and you get a noose around your neck.
Going marine in them days was a very bad choice...
I just really want to have the connection between the commander and the marines back :(
Please UWE I beg of you for mercy! Allow commanders to properly command!
<!--quoteo(post=1848303:date=May 25 2011, 03:42 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 25 2011, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848303"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm glad to hear res flow has been adjusted, and I hope to see that difference in the next build.
Though it still doesn't change the relationship between armory vs commander even if marines have more things to choice from. marines are too Independent, armory seriously must be limited to certain types of weapons, allow the commander to supply the higher tech gear while the lower tech gear can be gotten through the armory.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Edit:
I just thought of something for the armour and the commander.
How about if the armour ONLY supplies the rifle and upgrades for the rifle.
The rifle will be the only independent weapon for the marines. They get to choose what type they get. Just add more attachments to the rifle like the you did with the Grenade-Launcher and remove the Flame-thrower and Shotgun so ONLY the commander can buy them. That way the marines still have a bit of independence and the marine commander has a bit more control.
The problem with this is that it requires more weapons to make.
marines should not be getting <i>everything</i> as you said more things will be added like jetpacks, exo etc seriously bad idea, commander must play larger role in supplying his marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This should be left up to individual squads. A Commander is in charge of strategy, not tactics. There is a difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1848472:date=May 26 2011, 03:10 AM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ May 26 2011, 03:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about if the armour ONLY supplies the rifle and upgrades for the rifle.
The rifle will be the only independent weapon for the marines. They get to choose what type they get. Just add more attachments to the rifle like the you did with the Grenade-Launcher and remove the Flame-thrower and Shotgun so ONLY the commander can buy them. That way the marines still have a bit of independence and the marine commander has a bit more control.
The problem with this is that it requires more weapons to make.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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This is way too limiting. There are ways to encourage commanders and players to work together without making them hopelessly dependent on one another. That was a weakness of NS1 (outside of organized play), not a feature.
How about since the res flow is being adjusted...
Not the commander but teammates can purchase a gun for someone else.
It would encourage an i-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine attitude.
That buddy of yours that
...just came home from work
...just jumped into NS2
...has no personal res
...buy him a shotgun.
How about since the res flow is being adjusted...
Not the commander but teammates can purchase a gun for someone else.
It would encourage an i-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine attitude.
That buddy of yours that
...just came home from work
...just jumped into NS2
...has no personal res
...buy him a shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Commander is your teammate. Also, your teammates can become commanders.
thanks Kuban... i was not aware he was my teammate. :-)
my point was keeping with the marines buy their own guns philosophy.
and the fact that I do not talk directly with the commander at all times
but probably with the guy i steam talked with.
commander must play larger role in supplying his marines. The reason they made armory the way it is now, they wanted everyone to get weapons easily, and enjoy the game but they've killed the important relationship marines had with their commander.
the armory offers far too much.
End of.
I think the NS1 dominant commander is one of those higher highs - lower lows kinds of features. When it works, it's a thing of beauty - when it doesn't it gets game breaking.
I think most of the huge mainstream games these days are too scared of having bad moments. While it's nice that you can have your passable gaming experience more often, it often comes at the cost of having less memorable and intense game in general. When the game doesn't expect anything from the gamers it ends up taking away from the feeling of achieving something.
I can definitely see why most games tend to eliminate any expectations towards the players, but I don't want to treat it as a self explanatory or completely positive thing. I think especially indie companies sometimes have a chance of going against that design ideology and standing out from the crowd in a positive way.