Skulk Bite Suggestion - Missed Bites Don't Blind You
zex
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
A recurring complaint by NS2 players is that attacking with a Skulk is distracting, because the jaws cover the entire screen while biting. If a Skulk attacks and misses, it can be disorienting, because you are blind at the moment of the attack and therefore can not see in which direction the target moved causing the miss. This makes correcting for aim errors even more difficult.
The solution is to only partially close the Skulk jaws <b>when an attack does not land. </b> The jaws would clamp down from the top/bottom of the screen, but they would not close completely, leaving gameplay clearly visible (albeit with a reduced FOV) in the center of the screen during missed attacks. This would remove the effect of disorientation and make correcting for missed aim more intuitive.
Following from this solution, there is an additional benefit of differentiating hits from misses in the most glaringly obvious way possible. When a bite<b> successfuly hits a target</b>, the jaws would close completely as in the current animation. This hit feedback would make sucessful bites far more visceral and satisfying.
In summary:
Problem: bite-blindness is disorienting because jaws cover the entire screen
Solution:
A) MISSED BITES: Jaws only close partially, eliminating disorientation from being blinded after missing the target
B) HIT BITES: Jaws close completely, giving the player visceral, satisfying hit feedback in a situation where only the target would be visible anyway
Discuss : )
There's already been discussion in another thread, but it got seriously off track and people got confused what the actual suggestion was due to all the random nonsense being posted. Plus I don't like to bump a thread that implies Skulk bite-blindness is a "unacceptable design mistake" because I don't agree. I do think bite-blindness has room for improvement, and this suggestion would be an improvement.
The solution is to only partially close the Skulk jaws <b>when an attack does not land. </b> The jaws would clamp down from the top/bottom of the screen, but they would not close completely, leaving gameplay clearly visible (albeit with a reduced FOV) in the center of the screen during missed attacks. This would remove the effect of disorientation and make correcting for missed aim more intuitive.
Following from this solution, there is an additional benefit of differentiating hits from misses in the most glaringly obvious way possible. When a bite<b> successfuly hits a target</b>, the jaws would close completely as in the current animation. This hit feedback would make sucessful bites far more visceral and satisfying.
In summary:
Problem: bite-blindness is disorienting because jaws cover the entire screen
Solution:
A) MISSED BITES: Jaws only close partially, eliminating disorientation from being blinded after missing the target
B) HIT BITES: Jaws close completely, giving the player visceral, satisfying hit feedback in a situation where only the target would be visible anyway
Discuss : )
There's already been discussion in another thread, but it got seriously off track and people got confused what the actual suggestion was due to all the random nonsense being posted. Plus I don't like to bump a thread that implies Skulk bite-blindness is a "unacceptable design mistake" because I don't agree. I do think bite-blindness has room for improvement, and this suggestion would be an improvement.
Comments
Learn to play a Skulk more precisely. Don't spam Bite.
Skulks should not be encouraged to blindly chase after enemies and chomp away with abandon.
You should be leaping from floors, walls and ceilings to exhaust the Marine's ammo and get in and out of melee range just long enough to get a Bite off.
Some feedback would be nice, but I'm already 100% accustomed to it and I do remember the unique factor I experienced the first time I went alien back in the day with the bitecam.
When you bite the air your jaw closes, but when you land your bite your mouth cannot close completely because or the marines foot/leg/face that is in the way.
(Someone made a very good point with biting a pillow earlier)
This way you would be rewarded for good skulking and not the other way round.
Yeah I know the camera shouldn't be in your mouth but this add to immersion and I just love it.
Learn to play a Skulk more precisely. Don't spam Bite.
Skulks should not be encouraged to blindly chase after enemies and chomp away with abandon.
You should be leaping from floors, walls and ceilings to exhaust the Marine's ammo and get in and out of melee range just long enough to get a Bite off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
!
fixed
It's currently at 0.45 (seconds), so your view becomes fully obstructed twice a second, which admittedly might be a bit ridiculous. Kick the delay up to 0.7, and the damage up to 80 (from 75) and you're still dealing the same DPS (at the very least you can still kill a Marine in 3 Bites), but with less frequent obstruction.
In general, its something we've been hearing since NS1 first came out, and people usually get used to playing with it after awhile. We'll likely still keep tweaking the bite, maybe try speeding it up more, though its almost as fast as it can be at the moment, not really any fewer frames of animation we can close the mouth in.
Regarding the hit detection, that is something we'd like to address as well, though again, not with the amount the mouth closes. We've talked about wanting to add blood to the teeth, when you connect, which is probably the best way to indicate a hit. However we need the tech to be able to overlay blood on the teeth texture, or swap the texture to a bloody version, which we can't do just yet.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113797&st=80&p=1853298&#entry1853298" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1853298</a>
"<b>it just feels wrong and unsatisfying, to only half close on air.</b>" Shouldn't missing a bite rightly be unsatisfying? Doesn't that make it all the more satisfying to have full-screen visual feedback only when successfully biting?
"<b>it really doesn't help that much, with preventing the disorientation that some players feel with the skulk view."</b> The disorientation is probably caused by more than just attack blindedness, it's also about the control and wall-stickyness. My suggestion adresses only disorientation while attacking, not the other aspects of gameplay.
Some feedback would be nice, but I'm already 100% accustomed to it and I do remember the unique factor I experienced the first time I went alien back in the day with the bitecam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played NS since 1.0, and if I believe the Skulk bite animation speed in NS was increased some time after NS version 1.0. Also, the Skulk bite weapon in NS2 has a new model, which completely obscures normal vision, whereas the NS model, did not.
If you look closely at the Skulk's lower jaw (in NS2), there is a big gap between its two front teeth <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/5/50/Skulk_front.png" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/imag...Skulk_front.png</a> (see image below), which should permit a good view even when the jaws are closed. Unfortunately, the bite animation was created to deliberately blind the Skulk player, a decision many players, including myself, do not agree with.
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/5/50/Skulk_front.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/tsalerk/BlindSkulk.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
When you bite the air your jaw closes, but when you land your bite your mouth cannot close completely because or the marines foot/leg/face that is in the way.
(Someone made a very good point with biting a pillow earlier)
This way you would be rewarded for good skulking and not the other way round.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a combination of some of the tweaks could work.
- on hit, don't close completely
- on hit, add blood to the teeth
- on hit, play a bone cracking sound
- remove some of the middle from the lower jaw model (like twiliteblue wrote) to keep a small window of sight on missing a bite
And by the way. "its supposed to be that way and learn2play" aren't arguments. The game develops and have to find a way to be maximum fun and playability even to new players (I do not talk of "casual"!). So nothing is simply supposed to be some way. We have to figure out the best way.