I think that'd be perfectly fair if the Khaara could easily tell when a grenade has been fired. As long as they can stop the projectile from being bouncy and laggy that'd let it slide into it's natural role of structure killing without making it the end all tool against killing aliens. Maybe make the grenade beep and glow? One could rationalize it as letting fellow marines be aware that a grenade has been fired as far as the "lore" goes. It'd also be a future solution for Onos(es?) since they'd have the sort of health necessary to take grenades and also one of the few things that one could easily hit with it.
The main problem again right now with it is just netcode and what not. When playing aliens the only reason I'm ever aware of grenades is the little metallic tink they make when hitting the ground. My only experience with actually seeing grenades as Khaara is turning around to see them laggily (i.e. a bunch of frame skipping) slide across the floor before exploding. I have never actually seen them come from a marine without teleporting around.
<!--quoteo(post=1855161:date=Jun 21 2011, 04:00 PM:name=ThatOtherOtherGuy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThatOtherOtherGuy @ Jun 21 2011, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that'd be perfectly fair if the Khaara could easily tell when a grenade has been fired. As long as they can stop the projectile from being bouncy and laggy that'd let it slide into it's natural role of structure killing without making it the end all tool against killing aliens. Maybe make the grenade beep and glow? One could rationalize it as letting fellow marines be aware that a grenade has been fired as far as the "lore" goes. It'd also be a future solution for Onos(es?) since they'd have the sort of health necessary to take grenades and also one of the few things that one could easily hit with it.
The main problem again right now with it is just netcode and what not. When playing aliens the only reason I'm ever aware of grenades is the little metallic tink they make when hitting the ground. My only experience with actually seeing grenades as Khaara is turning around to see them laggily (i.e. a bunch of frame skipping) slide across the floor before exploding. I have never actually seen them come from a marine without teleporting around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about we make the "grenades" little unstable, self-contained balls of energy that deteriorate and explode shortly after launch? They could glow bright blue (or any colour) as an "unavoidable side-effect of their composition" and would seem more powerful and futuristic than your standard hard-to-see frag-ball.
I'm picturing an event-horizon in a transparent sphere or maybe just something like the Halo series' plasma grenades.
Grenade is the worst thing to debate about right now. It is the most awkward weapon in the game. Its really weird when you fire it because it sort of floats, bounces randomly in a awkward way, bounces back at your head constantly, and is super laggy. I like/understand its role as currently implemented but its silly at this point but its just bleh right now.
Add a light to the ring of the grenade so alien players can see a bright glowing thing flying at there face.
Also let gorges eat bouncing grenades, and take no damage. They are fat little ###### anyways. -This adjusts the skill level of the grenade a bit
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I'll prolly get set on fire and hunted by a shotgunner by saying this but...
Maybe they can bring back the explode on impact grenade but with the added functionality of holding down right click and releasing for a remote detonation.
<!--quoteo(post=1855175:date=Jun 21 2011, 05:08 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jun 21 2011, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll prolly get set on fire and hunted by a shotgunner by saying this but...
Maybe they can bring back the explode on impact grenade but with the added functionality of holding down right click and releasing for a remote detonation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Kind of leaves Skulks, Gorges, and the occasional Lurk out to dry doesn't it? They can at least run away from a Flamethrower.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1855176:date=Jun 21 2011, 06:10 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jun 21 2011, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Kind of leaves Skulks, Gorges, and the occasional Lurk out to dry doesn't it? They can at least run away from a Flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm in for more lethal weapon variation. The grenade attachment is rather useless in a combat situation at this time.
Could do simple balancing like making the damage based on grenade time. Quick release for half the damage or have it gain power over time until it caps off to the default value.
<!--quoteo(post=1855158:date=Jun 21 2011, 09:50 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jun 21 2011, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^To address that, how about a massive damage buff for the GL then? Maybe something that makes all structures (and to a lesser extent, any units dumb enough to stick around when it rolls in) feel like, well, a grenade just blew up in their faces?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It already does feel like that, grenades do damage second only to a point blank shotgun blast.
If you make it do even more damage it's going going to be a stupidly spammy gun that everyone is just going to use to create a wall of explosions.
If it isn't worth 30 res, cut the price, rather than making it horribly overpowered.
Agreeing with Chris here. A price reduction seems like the least-invasive solution right now that can be tested quickly. It is, after all, an Assault Rifle Add-on, while the equally priced Flamethrower is an entirely different weapon.
On a related note, the DPS on StructuresOnly weapons are pretty high by comparison to the rest of the weapons. Expected since structures have more health on average than the ground units the other weapons are designed to kill, but they already went through the trouble of creating the Structural/StructuresOnly damage types in order to deal damage conditionally, so why not increase the damage multiplier and reduce the damages they do, so that these weapons deal considerably less damage against non-structures, but the same damage against structures?
The structural damage scalar is currently 2.0. The GL deals 160 Structural. That's 320 to Structures, 160 to everything else. If the scalar was increased to 4.0 and the GL damage reduced to 80 Structural, it'd still deal 320 to Structures, and only 80 to everything else. Still quite a bit of damage to something it isn't specifically designed to kill, but also less overpowering across the board.
Further polarizing some of the weapons like this would go a long way in making each weapon more distinct (and therefore, more useful).
Another option would be something like incendiary grenades (where they do a pretty big chunk of damage but over, say, 10-15 seconds, making them pretty good at taking out buildings (as Gorges don't want to stand in that healing their wall) and doing area denial, but not such a big anti-Kharaa deal? It'd be sort of like Lerk poison gas, except against buildings.
Or Pulse grenades, similar effect without fire... it sits there for 5-10 seconds after it lands/goes off, sending out big blue pulses every half second, and those hurt buildings and life forms.
If the purpose is to be generally useful in combat in addition to trashing buildings, then some sort of Frag variation is where we want to be. If it's moved more to an area denial/anti-building role, some sort of damage-over-time-over-area effect might accomplish that, while still leaving the shotguns and other direct-damage weapons on point for actually killing things.
how about making it an actual add-on to the lmg? left mousebutton fire the lmg, right mousebutton fire the gl. that way you can still be viable in closecombat using the regular lmg.
<!--quoteo(post=1855312:date=Jun 22 2011, 10:45 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jun 22 2011, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about making it an actual add-on to the lmg? left mousebutton fire the lmg, right mousebutton fire the gl. that way you can still be viable in closecombat using the regular lmg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1855397:date=Jun 23 2011, 01:04 AM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Jun 23 2011, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about we make it fire grenades?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
<!--quoteo(post=1855397:date=Jun 22 2011, 12:04 PM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Jun 22 2011, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about we make it fire grenades?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As opposed to firecrakers? +1 then
<!--quoteo(post=1855397:date=Jun 22 2011, 10:04 AM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Jun 22 2011, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about we make it fire grenades?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This, but instead: delicious pastries!
it would be great if the damn thing fires correctly, instead of firing off to the right, often hitting teamates and walls or hell lets be honest, hitting yourself in midair because of lag/bugs before it even leaves the gun.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1855797:date=Jun 23 2011, 04:45 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Jun 23 2011, 04:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else think it'd be hilarious if a Gorge could Belly Slide into a grenade to swallow it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS2 doesn't have a NOM.wav!
Whatever happened to multiple round types? Such as acid rounds, fire rounds, direct explosion rounds (with increased dmg and blast radius) etc.? Is this still happening or was it scrapped?
Gonna make this post without reading much of the thread, I'll come back and edit this when I have time in the future. I wish the GL had modes. Like rather than a time delayed blast, why not allow nades to be remote detonated? Allow gorges the ability to bile any stored charges, just like they could previously blow mine fields. I think this creates more tactics in Gl usage.
You mean like the demo in TF2? I can imagine 3 marines all placing there nades in the same corner, waiting for the onos to come in.
But give them NO sticky-features, and they detonate after lying around for 10 seconds. wich is enough as an ambush in a longer skirmish but not long enough for a well tough-off all-killing trap
How about this. Keep the current "GL attachment", but make it a bit weaker and allow it to be attached to ANY weapon. Add a stand-alone, full version of the GL that is more like the one from NS1.
GL would be way better if you could choose between bouncing nades and Explode on Contact as firemode. That would fix the presicion thingy and would still give you the possibility to shoot into vents etc.
Comments
The main problem again right now with it is just netcode and what not. When playing aliens the only reason I'm ever aware of grenades is the little metallic tink they make when hitting the ground. My only experience with actually seeing grenades as Khaara is turning around to see them laggily (i.e. a bunch of frame skipping) slide across the floor before exploding. I have never actually seen them come from a marine without teleporting around.
The main problem again right now with it is just netcode and what not. When playing aliens the only reason I'm ever aware of grenades is the little metallic tink they make when hitting the ground. My only experience with actually seeing grenades as Khaara is turning around to see them laggily (i.e. a bunch of frame skipping) slide across the floor before exploding. I have never actually seen them come from a marine without teleporting around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about we make the "grenades" little unstable, self-contained balls of energy that deteriorate and explode shortly after launch? They could glow bright blue (or any colour) as an "unavoidable side-effect of their composition" and would seem more powerful and futuristic than your standard hard-to-see frag-ball.
I'm picturing an event-horizon in a transparent sphere or maybe just something like the Halo series' plasma grenades.
I like it :D
Cleanup complete, you may resume posting.
Cleanup complete, you may resume posting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Zaggy!
Oops, that makes this a spam post. Umm, err...
So how about those glowing balls of massive splash damage? Think that'd fix the GL and make it worth its cost without making it OP?
Add a light to the ring of the grenade so alien players can see a bright glowing thing flying at there face.
Also let gorges eat bouncing grenades, and take no damage. They are fat little ###### anyways.
-This adjusts the skill level of the grenade a bit
Maybe they can bring back the explode on impact grenade but with the added functionality of holding down right click and releasing for a remote detonation.
Maybe they can bring back the explode on impact grenade but with the added functionality of holding down right click and releasing for a remote detonation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kind of leaves Skulks, Gorges, and the occasional Lurk out to dry doesn't it? They can at least run away from a Flamethrower.
I'm in for more lethal weapon variation. The grenade attachment is rather useless in a combat situation at this time.
Could do simple balancing like making the damage based on grenade time. Quick release for half the damage or have it gain power over time until it caps off to the default value.
Just don't forget about self damage.
It already does feel like that, grenades do damage second only to a point blank shotgun blast.
If you make it do even more damage it's going going to be a stupidly spammy gun that everyone is just going to use to create a wall of explosions.
If it isn't worth 30 res, cut the price, rather than making it horribly overpowered.
On a related note, the DPS on StructuresOnly weapons are pretty high by comparison to the rest of the weapons. Expected since structures have more health on average than the ground units the other weapons are designed to kill, but they already went through the trouble of creating the Structural/StructuresOnly damage types in order to deal damage conditionally, so why not increase the damage multiplier and reduce the damages they do, so that these weapons deal considerably less damage against non-structures, but the same damage against structures?
The structural damage scalar is currently 2.0. The GL deals 160 Structural. That's 320 to Structures, 160 to everything else.
If the scalar was increased to 4.0 and the GL damage reduced to 80 Structural, it'd still deal 320 to Structures, and only 80 to everything else. Still quite a bit of damage to something it isn't specifically designed to kill, but also less overpowering across the board.
Further polarizing some of the weapons like this would go a long way in making each weapon more distinct (and therefore, more useful).
Or Pulse grenades, similar effect without fire... it sits there for 5-10 seconds after it lands/goes off, sending out big blue pulses every half second, and those hurt buildings and life forms.
If the purpose is to be generally useful in combat in addition to trashing buildings, then some sort of Frag variation is where we want to be. If it's moved more to an area denial/anti-building role, some sort of damage-over-time-over-area effect might accomplish that, while still leaving the shotguns and other direct-damage weapons on point for actually killing things.
that way you can still be viable in closecombat using the regular lmg.
that way you can still be viable in closecombat using the regular lmg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure if serious...
+1
As opposed to firecrakers? +1 then
This, but instead: delicious pastries!
Edit: You could have smoke come out of its ears as it falls over ^.^ Funny for players of both classes.
NS2 doesn't have a NOM.wav!
But give them NO sticky-features, and they detonate after lying around for 10 seconds. wich is enough as an ambush in a longer skirmish but not long enough for a well tough-off all-killing trap