Tips and Strategy discussion
PvtBones
Join Date: 2004-04-25 Member: 28187Members
Join Date: 2004-04-25 Member: 28187Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a place where we can throw ideas at the wall.</div>since NS2 doesn't have it's own dedicated sections for Marine and Alien strategies, I figured I throw this up here and see if we can get new ideas for strategies at comm level or on the ground
so to start it off, here's my thought. One thing that was common enough was using cc's as walls to either prevent the aliens easy passage , as fortifications for marines, or to act as a funnel into a kill zone Now, thats not possible with command chairs any more but we do have robo factories (that cost 20 TRes, pretty expensive granted.)
Pros:
Large
high health
limits paths aliens/ marines can take.
blocks gorges and potentially fades (a blinking fade uses it's standard hitbox?), skulks and lerks less affected.
Cons:
Expensive
Too Large to shoot over
Not Rotatable (currently?)
probably not very feasible in the early - mid part of the game
I haven't seen this done in any online matches so who knows if there is a benefit or how big of one. I'd be curious to find out. so thats my idea. lets hear what you think and what ideas you have guys :)
so to start it off, here's my thought. One thing that was common enough was using cc's as walls to either prevent the aliens easy passage , as fortifications for marines, or to act as a funnel into a kill zone Now, thats not possible with command chairs any more but we do have robo factories (that cost 20 TRes, pretty expensive granted.)
Pros:
Large
high health
limits paths aliens/ marines can take.
blocks gorges and potentially fades (a blinking fade uses it's standard hitbox?), skulks and lerks less affected.
Cons:
Expensive
Too Large to shoot over
Not Rotatable (currently?)
probably not very feasible in the early - mid part of the game
I haven't seen this done in any online matches so who knows if there is a benefit or how big of one. I'd be curious to find out. so thats my idea. lets hear what you think and what ideas you have guys :)
Comments
I used it with the Armory it worked quiet well blocking a Fade. The only bad thing is you can rec unbuilt buildings!
However, after playing a couple of matches (and being horribly obliterated) I realized I may be missing... details.
I came to the forum but for the life of me I can't find a "Newbie" or "Tutorial" guide, or anything even remotely like it.
My biggest concern is that in both games two different people went 8:1 K/D with Fades because we just couldn't stop them, even with flamethrowers and shotguns. Now, I'm not saying Fades are OP, please be aware of that, I'm just saying I don't know how to fight them. That's why I came looking for a newbie guide or what not.
Is there a general strategies thread somewhere that I'm missing? Or "how not to be horribly mutilated by fades" guide?
<b><u>Aliens</b></u><ul><li><b>Skulks</b>
Don't attack head on. Use vents to flank marines, wallclimbing to ambush them, and leap to close distances fast. The bite animation can be distracting, so use alien vision to make marines stick out as much as possible</li><li><b>Gorges</b>
Support, support, support. A gorges most useful job is to keep things alive, whether they be structures (you can actually build all alien structures besides hives using your use (E by default) key) or players retreating from a hit-and-run attack. When not healing, think about building up defenses with hydras so the comm doesn't have to waste drifters on whips. Also, heal spray is (ironically) your best weapon because it simultaneously 1) heals nearby friendlies, 2) heals you, and 3) damages marines. You can also help alien attack entrenched rooms by using bilebombs to kill sentries.</li><li><b>Lerk</b>
As a lerk, you are weak, but very hard to hit, so make sure to move around a lot when in combat. Use your spike attack to snipe marines/structures at a distance, but make sure to switch to the spore attack if marines decide to target you. It both damages the marines and obscures their vision. Also, as a flying unit, you should spend as little time as possible on the ground.</li><li><b>Fade</b>
In the current build, you will decimate marines, but you are not invulnerable. Use hit-and-run tactics by blinking into a room, killing/damaging a few marines or structures, and blinking out before your health drops below 100. Go to the nearest crag/gorge to heal, then repeat. Watch out for shotgun marines, because with the lag, they can kill you before you realize you've taken significant damage. Also, because there is no onos, the fade is the only class that can significantly weaken sentry spam, so blink-sniping sentries can be very helpful.</li></ul>
<b><u>Marines</b></u><ul><li><b>Light Machine Gun</b>
Its simply not very good, but its free and can do decent damage at distance. The key for killing aliens is to learn how to lead the target to compensate for server lag/weapon bugs. Also, the LMG is useful for attacking alien structures from across a room, so as to minimize your exposure to their defences.</li><li><b>Pistol</b>
Its not good at anything except killing lerks. Roughly one pistol clip can kill a lerk and, if you use the primary fire mode, can shoot quick enough to kill stationary lerks before they realize they are taking damage. The alt-fire mode is basically useless.</li><li><b>Switch Axe</b>
Only use if you run out of ammo or want to conserve ammo when killing structures. However, you will have a huge blindspot when using the axe on structures, so make sure either 1) the area is safe or 2) you have someone covering you so you don't get ninjaed by a skulk.</li><li><b>Shotgun</b>
The most all-purpose weapon for the marine and should be the go-to weapon when it becomes available. It can kill skulks in one shot, kill fades quickly, and does significant damage to structures. The biggest disadvantage is its low range. It also suffers from many of the same targeting issues as the LMG so you have to learn how to predict and lead your target.</li><li><b>Grenade Launcher</b>
The grenade launcher is the most effective weapon to clear structure spam (think hydras or whips) from a distance. However, the targeting is poor, the grenade will bounce in unpredictable ways, will detonate only on impact if it hits an alien unit/structure, carries few rounds, and can do damage to yourself. Since its an attachment to the LMG, you aren't totally defenseless, but its a poor fighting weapon compared to the shotgun or flamethrower. Its best used in specific situations where the aliens have entrenched themselves and you don't have an ARC nearby.</li><li><b>Flamethrower</b>
This is the 'lag-friendly' weapon in that you can still use it effectively even when the server starts to lag. All you have to do is point it in the general direction of whatever you want to die and fire in a sweeping motion. The enemy takes direct damage from the flame and a small amount from residual burning. Its enough to either kill or push back attacking aliens. It can also shoot through walls, although that is frowned upon as an exploit. The biggest disadvantages are its low range and reload time, which leaves you highly vulnerable to counterattacks. As (currently) the only weapon able to kill DI, you will likely use the flamethrower to kill patches of infestation. The most effective way is to find a critical single DI patch between the hive and the room you want cleared and kill that rather than trying to remove it patch by patch.</li></ul>
Its not good at anything except killing lerks. Roughly one pistol clip can kill a lerk and, if you use the primary fire mode, can shoot quick enough to kill stationary lerks before they realize they are taking damage. The alt-fire mode is basically useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not true at all. I use the alt-fire mode almost exclusively. It does more damage per shot and is particularly good at killing fades who are running away. As soon as I run out of ammo for my primary I switch to the pistol already on alt-fire mode to finish them off. It's also really good at picking off skulks from a distance (only takes 3-4 shots).
Without upgrades, advanced aliens (Gorge, Lerk and Fade) have 50 armour, which can absorb 200 "light" damage, or 100 "normal" damage, or 50 "heavy" damage. For instance, it takes only 3 bullets from the Pistol (secondary mode) to obliterate an alien's armour, instead of 5 Pistol bullets (primary mode) , or 10 Rifle bullets. With its armour completely destroyed, an alien will be forced to retreat, or fight and risk dying.
Use a two man team against a fade: one Marine has a Flamethrower and the other has a shotgun. The flame does the bonus ability of draining the energy reserves of the fade, and when a fade over estimates his attack you have a pretty effective tactic against a fade that can't blink away.
<!--quoteo(post=1856618:date=Jun 26 2011, 08:27 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jun 26 2011, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The secondary fire mode of the Pistol is best used when the alien is at long range, at the start of the fight. That is especially because of its additional armour shredding capability ("heavy" damage).
Without upgrades, advanced aliens (Gorge, Lerk and Fade) have 50 armour, which can absorb 100 "normal" damage, or 50 "heavy" damage. In other words, it only takes 3 bullets from the Pistol in secondary mode to obliterate an alien's armour, instead of 5 normal Pistol bullets, or 10 Rifle bullets. With its armour completely destroyed, an alien will be forced to retreat, or fight and risk dying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1856622:date=Jun 26 2011, 08:32 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 26 2011, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also the pistol in alternate fire mode will kill a skulk in 3 shots at the start of the game. Making it potentially stronger than the rifle, depending on your taste.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. My biggest issue with high damage, low ROF weapons is that their usefulness degrades with increased lag. In many cases, I find myself doing sweeping firing motions in the area where I think the skulk/lerk/fade is going to move so that at least some of my shots hit. You decrease the odds of making a hit with low ROF weapons. You also don't necessarily have to kill your enemy to achieve your objective (although a kill is a desired outcome). If you can force the enemy to retreat, that may be sufficient.
How about building placement? I've been tinkering with placing IPs in a circle around a Phase Gate, so that spawning marines can instantly phase through to the front line (Where they ideally buy weapons/stock ammo at a forward armory). Is that a silly idea?
Also Lerks are great for blocking an entrance. If you continuously gas a hallway, the marines won't see what's inside and will take damage as soon as they enter. It's a great way to prepare am ambush as your teammates will be harder to spot.
ScardyBob covered pretty much anything else.
Use a two man team against a fade: one Marine has a Flamethrower and the other has a shotgun. The flame does the bonus ability of draining the energy reserves of the fade, and when a fade over estimates his attack you have a pretty effective tactic against a fade that can't blink away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only works on exceptionally stupid fades however. Generally I find 2 shotguns is better, fades do die quite quickly if you hit them. 3 shotgunners is best, then you can start mixing flamers in.
Get fades = Instant Win
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->:) Fades are quite OP though.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
A fade has 100 max energy, and regenerates 10 energy/sec. Each swipe costs 14 energy, and with each swipe taking 0.75 sec, a constantly swiping fade drains 19 energy per second.
So a non-burning fade can swipe constantly for about 10 seconds (13-14 attacks) before running low on energy.
A burning fade OTOH can just do 5 attacks (assuming he didn't use up any blinking into combat) before running out of energy. Once out of energy, he's restricted to 1 swipe every 14 sec ... and he can't blink.
To survive when hit by a FT, a Fade can basically only swipe once or twice before he has to think about running away.
The only thing the FT marine should think about is to switch to pistol once the fade has been set alight - the FT only
does about 20 pts of damage twice per second, or 40 dps. Much better to switch to pistol on alt-fire, which can dish out
300pts of heavy damage.
A fade has 100 max energy, and regenerates 10 energy/sec. Each swipe costs 14 energy, and with each swipe taking 0.75 sec, a constantly swiping fade drains 19 energy per second.
So a non-burning fade can swipe constantly for about 10 seconds (13-14 attacks) before running low on energy.
A burning fade OTOH can just do 5 attacks (assuming he didn't use up any blinking into combat) before running out of energy. Once out of energy, he's restricted to 1 swipe every 14 sec ... and he can't blink.
To survive when hit by a FT, a Fade can basically only swipe once or twice before he has to think about running away.
The only thing the FT marine should think about is to switch to pistol once the fade has been set alight - the FT only
does about 20 pts of damage twice per second, or 40 dps. Much better to switch to pistol on alt-fire, which can dish out
300pts of heavy damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe they're reducing the attack speed on Swipe, so your effective Energy drain per second should be reduced, although this change seems to point at the fact that maybe you shouldn't be spamming Swipe as a Fade to begin with.
Still though, the binary nature of the Flamethrower seems a bit ridiculous. You catch Fire the moment you're hit by Flames, and the Flames do not spread (arguably the biggest appeal of Fire... ask an Arsonist)! Remove kStopFireProbability and add a chance to CATCH Fire that increases as a player continues to take Flame damage, or loses Armor%. This would not only reduce the aggravation of playing against Flamethrowers, but would also raise the skillcap of the weapon.
Whatever you do, don't add the slow-on-damage to the Flamethrower! Makes less sense since there aren't projectiles slamming into a player, but it would also make the Flamethrower inescapable and even more aggravating.
EDIT: Also 40 DPS vs. 300 Heavy damage isn't exactly comparable. One is a consistent rate of damage, the other is a max capacity to deal damage, dependent on your accuracy.
one word: griefing
Besides, the way you describe fire is exactly the same as it works in TF2, and I'd say that Pyro is popular enough. Granted, that flamethrower does more direct damage, but the NS2 one has a benefit of that energy drain being lethal to high life forms.
OFC if the marines use teamwork they can easily take out the hive if they spot it early enough and the alien team can't reinforce fast enough.
The actual DPS for a pistol on alt-fire is 300 damage over 3 seconds (with reload), but its heavy damage - against a fade with armor left over, each shot is actually doing 25 pts of armor damage and 5 health damage (equivalent to 55 pts normal damage) with 5 shots per second, while the flame is doing 8.5 pts of armor damage and 3 health damage twice per second.
The FT will need about 10 seconds to strip the armor from the fade, and then an additional 5 seconds to get rid of the health. That's probably 2-3 reloads involved there as well, so you are looking at 20+ seconds. You might as well hope the Fade dies of old age or something; a FT won't do it.
The pistol OTOH will (best case) strip the armor in 1.2 sec IF you hit (not the easiest thing, but wth ... its better than using the FT)
Ah the stigma of buzzwords!
Any player who can participate in the game can 'grief'. Anyone. It's unavoidable. And easy.
I could join a game and idle, and I'd be 'griefing' so long as I did it intentionally. But people might start to notice, so I might start walking. Then people might still start to notice I'm not making a contribution to the team, so I might start shooting, but if I'm really trying to piss off my own team I'm not really aiming for the enemy.
Honestly, I'd rather get grief'd fast and hard than slow and steady: it's much easier to identify the few dip****s that attempt to ruin the fun for everyone else when they're on Fire than when they're trying to ruin the game subversively.
You'd have to completely inhibit free will to remove a player's capacity to piss someone off deliberately.
Any player who can participate in the game can 'grief'. Anyone. It's unavoidable. And easy.
I could join a game and idle, and I'd be 'griefing' so long as I did it intentionally. But people might start to notice, so I might start walking. Then people might still start to notice I'm not making a contribution to the team, so I might start shooting, but if I'm really trying to piss off my own team I'm not really aiming for the enemy.
Honestly, I'd rather get grief'd fast and hard than slow and steady: it's much easier to identify the few dip****s that attempt to ruin the fun for everyone else when they're on Fire than when they're trying to ruin the game subversively.
You'd have to completely inhibit free will to remove a player's capacity to piss someone off deliberately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but the quantity of griefing is proportional to how easy it is to grief. Ultimately, server admins will have to deal with griefers and it makes a big difference if they only have to deal with one griefer instead than 10 or more. I've seen servers in other games effectively neutered for hours due to griefers. NS2 has largely avoided widespread griefing because its not very popular yet, not because it isn't highly griefable.
<ul><li>Stick together.</li><li>Be aggressive.</li><li>Communicate.</li><li>Support your commander, even if they do something wrong.
You are nothing without your commander and they are nothing with out you.</li><li>If you require something from your commander (health, building etc),
use the keyboard shortcuts so that the commander can easily locate you (even if you asked via VOIP).</li><li>Aim where your target will be, rather then where they are.</li><li>Unless you have a good chance of surviving, forget the armoury.</li><li>Only build if you have too or someone is covering you.</li><li>Shotguns go best with flame throwers.</li><li>Flame throwers go best with shotguns.</li><li>If you can't hit a lurk, get a flame thrower.</li><li>If you are trying to ninja* something, ignore alien structures that are not your target.</li><li>If you are trying to take out a hive, ignore alien structures that are not your target and kill any gorge you see.</li><li>Phase gates are for lazy marines. Lazy marines get eaten.</li><li>Alien structures that are no longer connected to a hive via infestation will die.
Unless you have to, don't waste your time/ammo.</li><li>179 - to take out infestation, focus on it for 20-30 seconds with a flame thrower.
Best to do on a connective part of infestation, as anything not connected to hive will die off.</li></ul>
Marine Commander tips:
<ul><li>Carry a shotgun. Nothing says GTFO of my base more then a lvl3 shotgun blast from behind.</li><li>Jump out build stuff yourself or at least help to build stuff. This is especially good at the start of a round.</li><li>Jump out and help defend the base if it is under attack and there is not enough marines there.</li><li>Support marines that act as a team, dropping health and ammo or setting up a forward base* for them.</li><li>Encourage any particularly effective marines to 'go be evil'* either by themselves or with a tag-along.</li><li>Build IP's apart. IP's built close together die together.</li><li>Build your base armouries in a covered location or against a wall.
Exposed armouries get marines killed from behind.</li><li>Build turrets in such a way that they cover one another.</li><li>Build turrets in out the way places or against walls.
Aliens can't kill what they can't see or get an angle on.</li><li>Build additional power nodes in your bases to keep important buildings functional if main power goes down.</li><li>If you win, congratulate your team, as you are nothing with out them.</li><li>If you lose, congratulate your team, as you are nothing with out them.</li><li>If you lose badly, bite your tongue.</li></ul>
Marine Commander Strategy:
<ul><li>Tell everyone to push out.</li><li>Tell the 2-3 marines who stay at base that "No, really, push out, I'll build things myself".</li><li>Drop an IP and armoury at base placed well apart.</li><li>Start building the IP and armoury yourself.</li><li>When the marines reach an RT point, jump in and drop them, then out to continue building the IP and armoury.</li><li>Encourage the marines to stick together and push towards any nearby expansions, dropping health / ammo for them if they make it and live.</li><li>Drop 2nd ip and build it.</li><li>Encourage the marines to swing by the RT's you have and check the expansion areas.</li><li>If a hive is found, encourage the marines to rush it on mass and take it out.</li><li>Drop arms lab and built it.</li><li>Get level 1 weapons.</li><li>Research shotguns.</li><li>Support marines, drop extra RT's if possible.</li><li>Get level 1 armour.</li><li>Continue supporting marines as they prevent aliens getting their 2nd hive or other RT's.</li><li>Get level 2 weapons.</li><li>Drop and get help building a robotics factory (they take a while).</li><li>Lock down expansion areas and drop some defences at base covering IP's.</li><li>If lurks are a problem, research flamers.</li><li>Get level 2 armour.</li><li>If marines are complaining about walking and you have the res, think about getting phase gates.
Otherwise, make the buggers walk.</li><li>Get level 3 weapons.</li><li>Encourage marines to keep the pressure on, while they continue to check each hive expansion area to keep them clear.</li><li>Continue locking down base/hives with well placed turrets, making sure to drop an extra Command Facility and IP's at each.</li><li>If you've made it this far, you win.</li></ul>
Q. What if they get a 2nd hive or are defending a in-progress hive really well?
A. Attack their main hive, leaving on 1 or 2 people to attack the 2nd one.
Q. What if they have locked down 2 or more hives well enough to prevent a rush?
A. Flamers + shotguns = dead fades, if you kill any pesky gorges nearby.
Stick together, make your way forward.
If you can get an ARC's to cooperate, escort 1 or 2 over to a nice place and guard it with flamers and shotguns as it does its thing.
Meanwhile, pick a couple of your top marines to go be evil.
Alien tips:
<ul><li>Stick together when possible.</li><li>Be aggressive.</li><li>Communicate.</li><li>Support your commander, even if they do something wrong.
You are nothing without your commander and they are nothing with out you.</li><li>Unless planning an ambush, keep moving.</li><li>Attack RT's over permanent power nodes.
RT's cost res, permanent power nodes are free and can be repaired by any marine.</li><li>At the start of a round, ignore permanent power nodes and other structures.
It is far more important to keep the marines down by attacking them.</li></ul>
Skulk tips:
<ul><li>Shotguns do not like you.</li><li>Flame throwers do not like you either.</li><li>Attack from above and/or behind.</li><li>Close the gap.</li><li>If you can't attack from above and/or behind or close the gap, run away.</li></ul>
Gorge tips:
<ul><li>Shotguns do not like you.</li><li>If possible, get a bunch of kills as skulk first before evolving into a gorge.
You will have more personal res to build more hydras.</li><li>Two gorges are better then one. Buddy up when you can.</li><li>Support everyone.</li><li>Put out fires, especially those attached to other aliens.</li><li>Heal spray is your best weapon.</li><li>Help hold key areas by building a garden*.</li><li>Belly slide not only looks funny, it can save you.</li><li>Two or more gorges with a decent garden are more effective at defending an area then Fades, provided there are no ARC's nearby.</li><li>Two or more gorges on the front line in a support role are more effective then Fades.</li><li>Two or more gorges with Bile Bomb are more effective vs structures then Fades.</li><li>One or two gorges attacking a marine or two with health spray is more entertaining then Fades.</li><li>A taunting gorge (default "z") is a more effective gorge.</li></ul>
Lurk tips:
<ul><li>Flame throwers hate you.</li><li>As long as you are moving you are hard to hit.</li><li>Snipe if you can, spike when you can't.</li><li>Spike if you can, gas when you can't.</li><li>If you can't gas, run.</li><li>Go be evil as much as possible.</li><li>If you can't be evil, be annoying.</li></ul>
Fade tips:
<ul><li>Shotguns do not like you.</li><li>Flame throwers tickle, but might have a shotgun as a friend.</li><li>Get in, do damage, get out.</li><li>Support gorges so they can support you.</li><li>You are not an Onos.</li></ul>
Alien Commander tips:
<ul><li>Being a gorge is a good idea.</li><li>Jump out and do stuff (attack, drop hydra's etc) while waiting for res or energy.</li><li>Jump out and help defend the base if it is under attack and there is not enough aliens there.</li><li>Placing infestation takes practice. Even when you think you know what your doing, it is a good idea
to hold back some energy just in case you made a mistake and some of infestation isn't connected to the hive.</li><li>If you win, congratulate your team, as you are nothing with out them.</li><li>If you lose, congratulate your team, as you are nothing with out them.</li><li>If you lose badly, bite your tongue.</li></ul>
Alien Commander Strategy:
<ul><li>Tell everyone to stick together and attack the marines to keep them down.</li><li>Drop a crag and get armour upgrades.</li><li>Begin moving infestation out towards a preferred RT spot.</li><li>As soon as you drop your first RT, begin saving energy so you can push out to another one.</li><li>While waiting for energy, get some defences built around your new RT to stop it being ninja'd.
Do this yourself if everyone else is busy.</li><li>Encourage the aliens to stick together and push towards any nearby expansion areas to keep them clear.</li><li>Expand infestation out to your 3rd RT point and secure.</li><li>Continue to get upgrades (armour first).</li><li>Encourage aliens to swing by the RT's you have and check the expansion areas.</li><li>If a base is found, encourage the aliens to rush it on mass and take it out.</li><li>When you have saved enough res for 2 hives, encourage aliens to clear and hold two expansion areas.</li><li>Before dropping a 2nd hive, get someone to check the area around your first and drop some defences for it.</li><li>When the aliens have secured one expansion area, drop a hive there.</li><li>Drop a 2nd hive at the same time even if the area nearby isn't fully secured. This is your backup / distraction.</li><li>When one of the hives is built, lock it down and encourage fades.</li><li>Encourage the fades to check around and cover your hives against possible marine ninja attempts while you lock them down.</li><li>Once 2 or more hives are locked down, encourage everyone to hold the marines where they are and to go be evil.</li><li>If you've made it this far, you should win (eventually).</li></ul>
Q. What if we can't get a 2nd hive or the marines are hitting an in-progress hive really well?
A. Attack the marines main base, leaving 1 or 2 people to continue to defend the 2nd hive.
Q. What if they have locked down 2 or more expansion areas well enough to prevent a rush?
A. Get an alien or two to go be evil while the rest make their way forward towards the least defended marine base.
Use lurks and gorges to take out some turrets from a far, covered by skulks, before going in to finish it off.
<b>* Ninja</b> - To sneakily take out a hive or other key location.
Done by getting behind enemy defences and setting up a forward base, usually with a phase gate.
<b>* Forward bases</b> - An armoury placed near or behind enemy lines, often powered by a power node.
Used by marines to restock and continue the attack. Usually includes a phase gate.
<b>* Go be evil</b> - Take out RT's and generally rampage around what should be an enemy controlled area.
<b>* Garden</b> - A bunch of hydras not connected to a hive that are maintained by one or more gorges.
If I think of anything else, I'll come add it.
That's it.
Any player who can participate in the game can 'grief'. Anyone. It's unavoidable. And easy.
I could join a game and idle, and I'd be 'griefing' so long as I did it intentionally. But people might start to notice, so I might start walking. Then people might still start to notice I'm not making a contribution to the team, so I might start shooting, but if I'm really trying to piss off my own team I'm not really aiming for the enemy.
Honestly, I'd rather get grief'd fast and hard than slow and steady: it's much easier to identify the few dip****s that attempt to ruin the fun for everyone else when they're on Fire than when they're trying to ruin the game subversively.
You'd have to completely inhibit free will to remove a player's capacity to piss someone off deliberately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not trying to go "zomg griefing," but idling can hardly compare to setting your whole team and buildings on fire. Actively hurting your team as opposed to passively idling can do a lot more damage a lot quicker. Not as bad as hopping in the comm chair and wasting all the team res, but...
Well that's what I'm saying. I'd PREFER them to actively hurt my team as opposed to passively idling: it allows you to identify these people sooner rather than later.
Not a bad collection of tips (though could be better organized). My main issues are on your comm strats.
Marine side:
I find that the build order of the three main upgrade buildings (arms lab (AL), robotics factory (RF), phase gates(PG)) depends strongly on the number of players and the map. For example, with a 5v5 or less match on summit, I like to go RF-PG-AL, because sentries and mobility are the most important factors in expanding and holding territory. However, on a 5v5 or greater on rockdown, AL-RF-PG seems a better deal to get marine upgrades and ARCs quickly.
Also, you seem to severely underestimate the value of PGs. Marines are already at a large mobility disadvantage because 1) they spawn much slower and 2) the move much slower than the aliens. PGs allow quick support to forward bases, reduced dead-spawn-back to front line attack times, and the ability for marines to escape to safety.
Alien side:
Quite frankly, I don't understand why a 2nd hive isn't the first (or second) thing you build. Its critical for getting fades, provides more energy for drifters/DI (which I always find the limiting factor of alien expansion), and is usually faster for getting a 3rd RT than trying to string DI from your main hive (except on rockdown). Alien upgrades are important, but I rarely see aliens win without that 2nd hive. At most, I'd go whip->melee1 before dropping the 2nd hive (but thats pushing it). My preferred path would be 2nd Hive->2nd RT->Whip/Crag->Melee1/Armor1.
Also, you seem to severely underestimate the value of PGs. Marines are already at a large mobility disadvantage because 1) they spawn much slower and 2) the move much slower than the aliens. PGs allow quick support to forward bases, reduced dead-spawn-back to front line attack times, and the ability for marines to escape to safety.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, building order does change depending on groups.
I should point out this is for a large pub game - often 9 v 9.
Mobility is very important, but staying as a group is more important.
Phase gates allow people to move fast, but unfortunately cause everyone to
separate due to their current implementation and the 0.25 second delay per person.
Large pub games also require people to survive and do damage - this means upgrades.
Phase gates cost precious res, preventing these upgrades.
Its a simple trade off.
I actually love phase gates, but mobility means nothing if you die as soon as you get there, which is often the case.
I drop phase gates after we have secured an area and are ready to lock it down, but not before.
Final note - I hate ARC's, coz I have to spend way to much time guiding them in.
This will change when the pathing is fixed I'm sure.
<!--quoteo(post=1856930:date=Jun 29 2011, 03:24 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jun 29 2011, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand why a 2nd hive isn't the first (or second) thing you build. Its critical for getting fades, provides more energy for drifters/DI (which I always find the limiting factor of alien expansion), and is usually faster for getting a 3rd RT than trying to string DI from your main hive. Alien upgrades are important, but I rarely see aliens win without that 2nd hive. At most, I'd go whip->melee1 before dropping the 2nd hive (but thats pushing it). My preferred path would be 2nd Hive->2nd RT->Whip/Crag->Melee1/Armor1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firs things first - I believe people rely on fades far too much.
In my experience the 2nd hive gets hammered by any decent marine group as soon as it is spotted, often long before it is complete.
I, and others I know, even have a sneaky habit of leaving alien drifters alone until they drop a hive
and then taking them out quickly making the aliens waste 50 team resources.
It is far better to secure the area first, then drop the hive.
To do this more easily, especially against a decent marine group, upgrades are important.
Dropping two hives at once became a habit that works even vs large decent marines, since it forces them to split up.
>>>
These strategies are not the be all and end all.
As a marine, I have got PG's before upgrades or immediately relocated to XR successfully.
As an alien, I have dropped the 2nd hive immediately and faded up ridiculously fast.
That being said, I have found the strategies I mentioned most effective more often then any other (so far).
Its great that NS2 can give you such a wide variety of choices in strategy and tactics!
More input please!
Marine Tip: Sentries
I hope this game gets more interesting