ns2_mapas
Blasphemy
Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">I'll think of a better name later. (56k warning)</div>Hey guys, just deciding that I'd open a thread on here to chronicle the development of my map.
As it stands, all I have done is made test rooms experimenting with the new props, and I finally feel comfortable with starting something concrete. Especially since now that bloom has made an appearance in the game, it will be easier to go through my map and see where you are going, but still have an artistically dark atmosphere to it. I was going to wait until Max added in Atmospheric lighting to the final product, but honestly, the bloom is just so much fun, I keep feeling inclined to open the editor and mess around some more (which is why I decided to start development of an actual map this time.)
< Map layout >
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/gGtL2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
According to the atmosphere, I feel that this map should be on a space ship or station of some sort. So I also plan to have a custom skybox with windows looking outside to show the stars. But don't expect a skybox to arrive anytime within the next decade (that's how long it feels I will take before I finish the map.)
<Screenshots> (Listed by order of development. Top ones are older, while bottom ones are newer. I will re-arrange this section when there are more rooms to show.)
Click on thumbnails for a larger, 1920x1080 picture.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/0jPFI.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/siUHzs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
--Development gap-- <The above was developed before the Bloom update.>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/e0Yiz.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/lB7uhs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/7Vgxf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/cZn1ps.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/CiKSI.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/TrsDzs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/Bn5Hr.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tlTMss.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
[10-06-2011 9:00 PM] -- Looking to see what this room would look like as the Alien start.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Pk7t9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/5mLCqs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/m9xRd.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uYiCGs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/NfrVj.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/G3gw4s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<Current task> (This time, top is newest.)
<ul><li>Layout is done! Just have to add all the needed entities.</li><li>Re-arranged particular components of the layout to be more closer together. This is a spaceship that I'm trying to map, not a facility, big gaps shouldn't be there without a reason.</li><li>Layout is 50% complete. This is taking longer than I would have hoped it would.</li><li>The room is mostly complete now, time for designing the level's layout.</li><li>Now that I have finally enclosed the room, I am going to start fleshing out the details in the dark corners, and the ceiling area. Then I will work on the floor.</li></ul>
I am always accepting criticism and comments on the map, and if you have any ideas, I'd be more than happy to read em. Even if you don't like a particular element, call it out, and if I see what you mean, or if I get a general resounding vote on a particular subject, I will probably modify it so it looks more appealing. Thanks for reading and I'll see you in game.
As it stands, all I have done is made test rooms experimenting with the new props, and I finally feel comfortable with starting something concrete. Especially since now that bloom has made an appearance in the game, it will be easier to go through my map and see where you are going, but still have an artistically dark atmosphere to it. I was going to wait until Max added in Atmospheric lighting to the final product, but honestly, the bloom is just so much fun, I keep feeling inclined to open the editor and mess around some more (which is why I decided to start development of an actual map this time.)
< Map layout >
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/gGtL2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
According to the atmosphere, I feel that this map should be on a space ship or station of some sort. So I also plan to have a custom skybox with windows looking outside to show the stars. But don't expect a skybox to arrive anytime within the next decade (that's how long it feels I will take before I finish the map.)
<Screenshots> (Listed by order of development. Top ones are older, while bottom ones are newer. I will re-arrange this section when there are more rooms to show.)
Click on thumbnails for a larger, 1920x1080 picture.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/0jPFI.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/siUHzs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
--Development gap-- <The above was developed before the Bloom update.>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/e0Yiz.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/lB7uhs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/7Vgxf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/cZn1ps.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/CiKSI.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/TrsDzs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/Bn5Hr.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tlTMss.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
[10-06-2011 9:00 PM] -- Looking to see what this room would look like as the Alien start.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Pk7t9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/5mLCqs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/m9xRd.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uYiCGs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/NfrVj.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/G3gw4s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<Current task> (This time, top is newest.)
<ul><li>Layout is done! Just have to add all the needed entities.</li><li>Re-arranged particular components of the layout to be more closer together. This is a spaceship that I'm trying to map, not a facility, big gaps shouldn't be there without a reason.</li><li>Layout is 50% complete. This is taking longer than I would have hoped it would.</li><li>The room is mostly complete now, time for designing the level's layout.</li><li>Now that I have finally enclosed the room, I am going to start fleshing out the details in the dark corners, and the ceiling area. Then I will work on the floor.</li></ul>
I am always accepting criticism and comments on the map, and if you have any ideas, I'd be more than happy to read em. Even if you don't like a particular element, call it out, and if I see what you mean, or if I get a general resounding vote on a particular subject, I will probably modify it so it looks more appealing. Thanks for reading and I'll see you in game.
Comments
New batch [12-06-2011 12:21 AM] -- Most of the room is complete now. Only a couple walls need touching up, but I'll do that later. Time to make a level layout (in the morning).
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/G3gw4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/G3gw4s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/MsD3g.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/MsD3gs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/KkZLA.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/KkZLAs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ExjoP.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/ExjoPs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Don't mind those little white things atop those ledges on the sides in the last picture, these are my form of "annotations" that I forgot to remove.
I think I am going to change the back wall to use blast doors to add visual implication that the room is going to be a "docking bay" of sorts. I feel docking bay would be the best use of this room, especially as the lights that 'lead' the player to the hive visually, also act as a form of a 'landing strip'.
As for design layout, I am thinking of using the "Spread offense" design layout, using 5 tech points and 7 resource points.
Will there be lots of vents? If the corridors are relatively narrow the aliens will need some other routes. Could skulks and lerks go under the walkways like in tram?
+ 1 for dark maps. Force marines to use flashlights!
When do you think you will finish this?
According to the NS2 Guidelines, secondary routes like vents and passages should only make up 25% of the map, and that I shouldn't have vents that go underneath main routes, but rather connect separate rooms in order to force the skulks to have to dart across the main rooms to reach the vents. That being said, I am still going to make a lot of nooks and crannies for the skulk to hide in, as I am quite a fan of the guerrilla style of play with skulks.
As for a release date, I honestly don't know. Considering this one room has taken me around 3-4 days, I guess if I managed to maintain this pace, I would probably finish the other main tech rooms in around 15 days. Add or subtract these numbers according to how imaginative I can be, and if I have any appointments I have to make or something like that. One thing I really want to do, but don't know how to do it, is to get my map on some sort of cloud network. I would completely love to make my map public and develop it alongside the community with annotations and whatnot, but I feel the best that I can do right now is to just submit screenshots to this thread and make changes based on people's opinions.
Currently since I don't have any school or work, I've been devoting most of my time to this map with the intention of getting a completed version to submit to the UWE, and hopefully have it added to the game. But that doesn't mean I won't be taking breaks. I'm sure its safe to assume that some days I'll do extreme mapas like I've been doing now, but other days will probably be very small bursts. Right now in order to maintain a constant stream of development, I am currently planning to map out something worth something every day, especially to continue personal interest. I know of a lot of projects that I've started that I procrastinate but never finish, but I think this technique will help me with that.
Maybe tomorrow if I finish the layout of the map, I could set up a link to download, and arrange a playtest of the map with anyone who wants to participate.
that hallway is mind-numbingly beautiful.
Kudos.
Brilliant!
I've been meaning to bring this up in a new topic as I've been seeing a lack of vents in other people's work as of late. The fact you're putting emphasis on and paying attention to vents is great as it creates a brilliant atmosphere as a skulk in game.
By the way, why don't you turn the hive around?
Does it ruin the atmosphere and lighting of the room with it's glow?
The only problems I have with the map are it's placement of the red nodes and the hive,
other than that I think it's very well done.
I'm confident of the map choices I've seen so far, and I can see this as being a favourite of mine in the future.
Keep up the great work!
[edit]
Keep in mind what Thaldarin said though!
That corridor looks like it's about to tilt over, but the missing ceiling is probably adding to that.
Do yourself a favor and don't add gameplay models/entities to pictures, if you want more honest and accurate comments about your actual map. I'd like to see a shot of that hive room in the cinematic editor without entities.
I'm sure it will still look good, but these awesome models just add a lot to a scene (color aswell).
I guess it's good once to see how well it goes together with your theme though.
What I notice is too much symmetry and repetitions in the segments between the trim/pillar parts.
The segments look great, but once there are 3 next to each other or just mirrored to the other side, it gets boring already. The white lights standing out add to that problem aswell.
I'd try to do something different with the middle one of 3 segments or in case of the hive room, extrude one side, make it a different shape and use differently placed lights.
What I notice is too much symmetry and repetitions in the segments between the trim/pillar parts.
[...]
I'd try to do something different with the middle one of 3 segments or in case of the hive room, extrude one side, make it a different shape and use differently placed lights.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I dont see any problem with symmetry.
I think the room can stay in shape as it is, just put other terminals or other props onto each side.
I dont see why humans should build assymetiajskka (you know what I mean, but I cant even THINK that word) when
building a complex space ship. Id like to see my blueprints as easy as possible...
I have a lot of symmetric stuff in my map aswell, but after copy&paste I changed a few things.
Regarding this map a different setup of white lights in the middle of one side could already be enough.
Also, don't worry about that long hallway, as that was only an art test. I'll see if I can find a place to fit that hallway in as a small secondary route, but as it stands, it is too small (only just) to be used as a primary route.
The resource node was just randomly placed so I could fulfill the entity limit in order for the map to load faster. I do plan on returning back to it and fixing it. Maybe I'll add a hole to one of the side platforms and place it there. One of the nice things of having this copy-pasted segmented art style, is that it is easy to modulate. I could whip up a few tests to rotate the hive sideways, but I feel that location is the most effective, as the lights on the side draw your vision towards it.
While I will try to refrain from including entities and models in further pictures (I'll take a shot of the room without game assets when it is fully completed. Still have the floor, etc.) I will probably still have marines and other assets included if I deem it necessary, in order to provide a sense of scale, or to show how much they belong visually to the scene. But I'll be sure to cut back if they are not needed.
As for the symmetry, I feel as though I am going to have to slightly stick to my guns on this one. While I am thinking of having hanging cables and pipes that strewn throughout the map to add a sense of unsupervised chaos, I am going to keep the lights and general geometry in this room mostly symmetrical, in order to act as a guiding element to the tech point in the middle. I am thinking of going and changing the light values on independent lights to indicate that they aren't all in 100% working condition though.
When I finish designing the layout, I'll take more pictures of anywhere you guys want to see. I'm planning to place a top-down picture, and a picture showing the other half of the hive room.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/bKBU7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/bKBU7s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/SWIKN.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/SWIKNs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/IYq4b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/IYq4bs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/trZ1J.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/trZ1Js.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/tAQYO.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tAQYOs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/K6MZl.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/K6MZls.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/uKDiA.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uKDiAs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/jEzSG.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/jEzSGs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/RktV3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/RktV3s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/qKcd4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/qKcd4s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
More things to note: Other than the hallways that are connected to the yellow room, I haven't worked on the floor much at all. Most of my time was spent on the walls and ceiling, as that is where I feel you should be looking anyways for skulks. I'll get working on the floors much later in the project I feel, or when I hit creative roadblocks. Whichever comes first.
Another thing to note is that the last two pictures are not final. They were just an experimental framework I whipped up in order to get a general feel for the room, while still leaving it ready to be worked on.
Also, I wasn't able to take a screenshot of the alien start without the hive, as I have already reached the maximum amount of images I could contain in this post. Next post I'll see what I can do.
As always, comments and concerns are tremendously appreciated.
Also i've noticed that the majority (if not all) of your map is quite dark, gives the aliens a bit of an advantage over the marines, infact from what i can see the alien start area is the most well lit room so far, perhaps brightening everything up slightly. While the dark atmosphere is fantastic and could create some really tense moments, it's a little biased towards the alien team.
Other than that i like the style, like Kouji_San said it looks a bit like Doom 3.
I do see what you mean about the room being a bit too open and easily snipe able. During some of my tests, I've found that while the open space is perfect for sentries and hydras, whips have barely any proper locations to hide at. I think I am going to add some more spatial interruptions to the area around the stairs, primarily around the fences. Maybe a couple dispersed crates could help restrict vision until you get to the narrow passageway at the stairs. Having this will allow the skulks on the ceilings (which I have put a lot of effort into being incredibly three dimentional for hidey holes) to be able to purely drop onto the marines that pass under them.
I am glad that you find my map quite dark and biased towards the aliens, as these are the only areas of the map that I have fully fleshed out. And I recognize your concerns about the map in its entirety being biased towards the aliens. One of the problems I have with this art style is that since the walls are black, this blackness has a shadow kind of effect on the eyes which will make the entire room seem dark. Although I do have some theories about how to make this work to my advantage. By having the majority of the alien area using these black walled props, I could impose that sort of daunting eerie claustrophobic feel. By changing the general art style of the map leading towards the marines to use more shiny walled props, the eyes can be tricked into thinking the area is brighter, and therefore feel more secure in their surroundings.
One thing I am really having problems about with the whole "the map is too dark" is that I am unsure as to whether the map is actually too dark, or if it is just the difference in brightness and contrast between people's monitors. Obviously since there are different models and different kinds of backlights, that brightness and contrast are not going to be a constant, and therefore, I cannot tell if the map is too dark because the map is too dark, or the map is too dark because their monitor just shows things darker.
At this point in time, I was thinking of having that octagonal structure framework to be some sort of complicated kind of machinery resembling the Large Hadron Collider. This thing could light up the containing room and give a feel that the entire ship was transporting something important. Although having windows to rooms to show the external framework of the map to imply that it is a space-fairing ship sounds like it could be a neat addition to the atmosphere and identity. I do like the idea of having other rooms in the ship be visible, but out of your reach. I have multiple rooms with this idea in mind. For example. Engineering is going to have a large window to show a reactor containment facility. Maintenance access is going to be consisting mostly of grating on the floor and ceiling to indicate that the ship has multiple stories. And Observation could be the room that gives the ship its identity by showing the exterior to it.
Visual motifs that maintain throughout rooms is another thing I want to look into. For one of my rooms which I nicknamed Processing, I am planning to have pipes strewn throughout the room, and having the hallways linked up to it containing pipes embedded in the walls and floors. Then other rooms could be containing evidence of these pipes to indicate that the entire ship has a kind of plumbing network.
What I want for this framework in the middle of my map to be, is something scientific looking, that could have some possibility of looking like some sort of weapon. Much like the Atlas component of the Large Hadron Collider. But I would also like to design it to react according to the game. One thing I would like is if UWE adds is a trigger for lights to change color according to what team controls the tech point. With this mechanic, I could have the framework be some sort of "standby" dark grey / green when no one is in control, and whichever team gets to it spurts it to life, where it then emits the team colors and blankets the entire room with color. With that, I could also help provide the idea that this "mass driver" with all its vibrant color, are foreign to the ship itself, which is slightly on the more bland side.
That being said, I don't need that kind of light functionality, and I can definitely do without. One of the things about if I were to use some function like that, is in order to make the one room special, I fear the rest of the level would have to suffer, which I don't think I am prepared to do. I have multiple rooms where I would find strong colors to be very effective for making the landmark styles of the room stand out.
Since I am planning to have my ship appear to have multiple levels to it, maybe I could provide some sort of sort of way of seeing other rooms like the cafeteria or sleeping quarters. That could imply that there were people living on the ship, and had to escape when the aliens came. Maybe I could put some empty escape pod chutes around the map. And at observation, if you look out the window, you could see the silhouette of a ship (or multiple) in the distance with docking lights blinking periodically.
e: you don't want to over-rely on the trim-lights though, and might want to consider adding ambient lights underneath where the texture-lights are. just a thought :D