I'm on vacation this week and have plenty of time to invest on this, so you can expect some more updates. Currently I'm working on marine side of main hallway, which will connect marine side of the map to the resource nodes in the center of the map. Here is a little something I've got so far. It's still missing lighting but hopefully I have managed to whip up some by the end of the day.
As you can see, it's not terribly good, but it's a start none the less. :) If you know anyone who is capable of modeling / texturing plants and would be interested in helping out, give me a PM!
I also wanted to post an overview image of map progress here, but I'm not sure what is the best method to do that? Should I just go into spectate mode and take a print screen from above?
This looks really good! Hope it gets released by 1.0!!!
Just something that is standing out to me. Your first screenshot in your post right above me, the floor looks weird. I'm not a mapper so I'm not sure if there is a way to blend that line in so it doesnt look so jagged.
This looks really good! Hope it gets released by 1.0!!!
Just something that is standing out to me. Your first screenshot in your post right above me, the floor looks weird. I'm not a mapper so I'm not sure if there is a way to blend that line in so it doesnt look so jagged.
Good stuff!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi Wiltdog!
Thanks for pointing that out. AFAIK the only way to hide those seams is to align the textures 'just right' and you don't neccessarily notice flaws like that if you don't happen to have lighting turned on.
<!--quoteo(post=1856779:date=Jun 27 2011, 08:04 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jun 27 2011, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856779"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the update! The map looks way better than summit!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's starting to look great yeah but i wouldn't go that far.
Thanks for pointing that out. AFAIK the only way to hide those seams is to align the textures 'just right' and you don't neccessarily notice flaws like that if you don't happen to have lighting turned on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't it because one of the textures is rotated 90*, at least, that's what it looks like to me...
Oh and, how the ###### did you get textures to work for custom models? There are two (or more) threads commenting on how the builder does not compile models correctly AT ALL. Even OFFICIAL models (DAE) given to us by Brian.
<!--quoteo(post=1856824:date=Jun 27 2011, 08:04 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Jun 27 2011, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it because one of the textures is rotated 90*, at least, that's what it looks like to me...
Oh and, how the ###### did you get textures to work for custom models? There are two (or more) threads commenting on how the builder does not compile models correctly AT ALL. Even OFFICIAL models (DAE) given to us by Brian.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep. What I tried to say is that proper texture alignment can make the "90* seam" less noticeable.
It took me a while to get the texture to show up and in the end moving to Blender 2.57 from 2.55 (or 2.56 I'm not sure) fixed it for me. I think the collada export plugin in earlier versions was somehow broken because after changing to 2.57 and exporting the *.dds file from that everything worked fine. I didn't document the steps but I'll try to see if I can reproduce the same results with Sketchup.
This looks really great, but i would make it a bit smaller or less tech points/less resnodes for more intense action and to be better in 6on6 games, though it is my opinion only. You are free to challenge my opinion, why a bigger map would be better, it will only make games last longer which is no no for real competitive gaming.
My points:
1. Big map, longer games 2. A lot resnodes, if there are only 6 players on marine team and in alien team, you will have to be protecting/destroying them all time, which is impossible to do because 5 marines cant be everywhere and same goes on aliens too even tho they are faster and more manouvorable (if i got it right :D), and ofcourse commanders will be building more at the same time players are destroying or protecting... 3. Big map, a lot tech points which will focus on more controlling the areas and supporting late game more (turrets, robotics factories, command consoles). Summit is a good example it actually is a bit too big for marines to hold ground (at this time of beta at least).
Just my thoughts, im tired only two hours sleep so i'm too lazy to recheck my post for errors (spelling errors mostly).
.. also rooms are really big, so it is favoring marines at least the beginning of game.., anyway it does look really great and hopefully it will be good map to play competively, honestly keep up the good work.
<!--quoteo(post=1857886:date=Jul 4 2011, 02:59 PM:name=oma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oma @ Jul 4 2011, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This looks really great, but i would make it a bit smaller or less tech points/less resnodes for more intense action and to be better in 6on6 games, though it is my opinion only. You are free to challenge my opinion, why a bigger map would be better, it will only make games last longer which is no no for real competitive gaming.
My points:
1. Big map, longer games 2. A lot resnodes, if there are only 6 players on marine team and in alien team, you will have to be protecting/destroying them all time, which is impossible to do because 5 marines cant be everywhere and same goes on aliens too even tho they are faster and more manouvorable (if i got it right :D), and ofcourse commanders will be building more at the same time players are destroying or protecting... 3. Big map, a lot tech points which will focus on more controlling the areas and supporting late game more (turrets, robotics factories, command consoles). Summit is a good example it actually is a bit too big for marines to hold ground (at this time of beta at least).
Just my thoughts, im tired only two hours sleep so i'm too lazy to recheck my post for errors (spelling errors mostly).
.. also rooms are really big, so it is favoring marines at least the beginning of game.., anyway it does look really great and hopefully it will be good map to play competively, honestly keep up the good work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, thanks for feedback oma!
We talked about this at IRC in finnish so I got full understanding of what are the problems oma noticed in this layout. After talking with perso we decided to go for smaller layout because we can do that with very little changes and we don't have to throw much away. (We also noticed that our map layout is quite modular for going to 4/6 if you prefer.) So we decided to go for 5/8 layout to get it more intense and smaller.
Here is the new layout of map <img src="http://plantdev.dyndns.org/images/plant/layouts/ns2_plant_layout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
EDIT: Names in layout EDIT: 15.3.2012 New link to picture
By far the best layout so far, securing the middle (right spot) does not only give you an early attacking point to the natural expansion but also covers your own. While this may seem imbalanced at first glanze the left side offers huge amount of rts multiple entries and the last tech point. To put it so that everyone can understand it maybe more favorable to neglect the safer natural expansion and go for the bigger fish. The middle right spot also offers one passage way to an important spot that can possible split the two hives ( top left or bot left spot from the middle right spot ) while I cannot tell which one it favors as you are either one passage away from every rt expect main or you have the ability to attack from multiple sides regardless it will be interesting as both sides want to keep it.
Deep thinking when it comes to the fight positions and vents with some immersion to the level and you will have the best map in NS2!
Oh I cant wait to see the Biodome! Please make it pretty big. Will there be a any body of water inside the biodome? You should make the biodome room pretty large, that way it is believable.
<!--quoteo(post=1861140:date=Jul 17 2011, 01:39 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jul 17 2011, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh I cant wait to see the Biodome! Please make it pretty big. Will there be a any body of water inside the biodome? You should make the biodome room pretty large, that way it is believable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's in the works. Vara had some great ideas for it but we still need to refine them a bit to make the room playable. I'm also one who wants to make the biodome as green and lush as possible for us, and those "to be created" plant models / particle effects should make that room really stand out. I recall reading a post where it said that water won't probably come into ns2 any time soon, so if we add water to the room, it will have to be only small puddles (which would feel weird without sounds) or inaccessible areas which use some water shaders.
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far: <img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
<!--quoteo(post=1861141:date=Jul 17 2011, 01:42 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jul 17 2011, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume RR means rest room?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
<!--quoteo(post=1861143:date=Jul 17 2011, 02:07 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Jul 17 2011, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has to be rave room!111<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually! (I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1861148:date=Jul 17 2011, 03:49 AM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Jul 17 2011, 03:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861148"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's in the works. Vara had some great ideas for it but we still need to refine them a bit to make the room playable. I'm also one who wants to make the biodome as green and lush as possible for us, and those "to be created" plant models / particle effects should make that room really stand out. I recall reading a post where it said that water won't probably come into ns2 any time soon, so if we add water to the room, it will have to be only small puddles (which would feel weird without sounds) or inaccessible areas which use some water shaders.
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far: <img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually! (I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that a sort of silly object to make a model of? Its a relatively simple piece of geometry you could make out of faces
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1861148:date=Jul 17 2011, 03:49 AM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Jul 17 2011, 03:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861148"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's in the works. Vara had some great ideas for it but we still need to refine them a bit to make the room playable. I'm also one who wants to make the biodome as green and lush as possible for us, and those "to be created" plant models / particle effects should make that room really stand out. I recall reading a post where it said that water won't probably come into ns2 any time soon, so if we add water to the room, it will have to be only small puddles (which would feel weird without sounds) or inaccessible areas which use some water shaders.
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far: <img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually! (I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that a sort of silly object to make a model of? Its a relatively simple piece of geometry you could make out of faces
edit: oh I see that you want to make a dome out of tiling that model... still seems like a mistake when faces are simpler
Well, it's simple but you could try to make a hexagon dome out of faces only. To my experience it's not as straigt forward as it sounds. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's pita to get everything aligned properly. IMO by using models the end result is also cleaner and easier to make changes to. Besides that, I'm not in any way expert in modeling so that little trinket helped me to better understand how the process of creating props for this game works.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1861154:date=Jul 17 2011, 04:26 AM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Jul 17 2011, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, it's simple but you could try to make a hexagon dome out of faces only. To my experience it's not as straigt forward as it sounds. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's pita to get everything aligned properly. IMO by using models the end result is also cleaner and easier to make changes to. Besides that, I'm not in any way expert in modeling so that little trinket helped me to better understand how the process of creating props for this game works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well OK then! I look forward to seeing the results. Just keep in mind that using custom assets means having people finagle their game folders,. It can be a bit of a knock against it, but no biggie
I cant wait to see the lush green biodome and look out the hexagonal glass panels to see a frigid planet with a raging blizzard, kind of like the planet Hoth from Star Wars. Will be pretty cool.
(Too bad I bet weather effects have not been implemented yet...)
@PersianImm0rtal: That's exactly what we are planning to do. Even though the Biodome techpoint is still only some drafts on paper and in my head I did manage to experiment with some custom assets which are crucial for our map's theme. Here a couple of screenshots from an inaccessible outdoor area between MS and Railway Station techpoint.
That snow particle effect still needs some tweaking. Especially I would like to know if there is a way to start the cinematic at a specific key frame? I want it to look like it's already snowing when the map is loaded, not start emitting particles then. :P
Any suggestions on how to make it look more outdoorish? How would you improve the lighting?
The skybox is something that I whipped up in Terragen 2. Unfortunately the free noncommercial version restricted me to 512x512 textures instead of 1024x1042 which would have looked much cleaner. Also I'm a noob to Terragen and I could have used more time tweaking the various settings.
I should probably start working on Biodome soon and not spend too much time on aesthetics like this, but it was so much fun experimenting. :P
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1867273:date=Aug 7 2011, 06:51 PM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Aug 7 2011, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1867273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@PersianImm0rtal: That's exactly what we are planning to do. Even though the Biodome techpoint is still only some drafts on paper and in my head I did manage to experiment with some custom assets which are crucial for our map's theme. Here a couple of screenshots from an inaccessible outdoor area between MS and Railway Station techpoint.
That snow particle effect still needs some tweaking. Especially I would like to know if there is a way to start the cinematic at a specific key frame? I want it to look like it's already snowing when the map is loaded, not start emitting particles then. :P
Any suggestions on how to make it look more outdoorish? How would you improve the lighting?
The skybox is something that I whipped up in Terragen 2. Unfortunately the free noncommercial version restricted me to 512x512 textures instead of 1024x1042 which would have looked much cleaner. Also I'm a noob to Terragen and I could have used more time tweaking the various settings.
I should probably start working on Biodome soon and not spend too much time on aesthetics like this, but it was so much fun experimenting. :P
edit: typos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bravo! That's great work. I especially like the first shot, how you incorporated that skybox building looks so natural and well-lit.
A few things: -Your lighting is not saturated enough. That's why your colors seem off. You need to make there be one, very dominant color to the scene, that way your props fall in line and their individual colors don't override the color of the scene as a whole. The best way to do this is a strong ambient light. Just be careful not to make it too strong, or you can get a really washed-out feeling. Try to find a balance that is subtle. Once you have that strong color, pick a secondary color. For instance, in your first screenshot, the dominant color would be that beautiful purple you've got going (which is really just so nice). The secondary color would be that warm oranges that compliment the purple so well. Use a powerful ambient light for the purple, and strong spotlights and point lights for the oranges. That way, I think you'll see something you really like. -The sky texture looks bad. Just sayin. Not enough sharpness and the moon looks really goofy for some reason. Probably that low resolution you mentioned. -You repeat that wall panel prop too many times for my liking. Once or twice is good, any more and you risk making the fact that its just a duplicated prop too obvious. -In a similar vein to my last point, add more variety to your texturing on the outside walls, it's good, but it could be much better if you chopped up the use of that one texture you use on the upper portion of the wall. -Vary your use of the rock prop so that it doesn't just repeat over and over. Also try and incorporate depth on more than one plane, right now the wall is of uniform height and doesn't really stick in or have depth backwards. That's no good.
All in all, the main problem I have with the screenshots you showed is not the lighting, but the over-use and repetition of assets. There are A LOT of assets, and you seem to be good at incorporating all kinds into your map. Try not to use so many custom materials! You can accomplish nearly the same effect and with a much better look by using the stock assets in a creative way, than by going and modelling them yourself. It's good practice to do that, and if something absolutely must be custom, you shouldn't hesitate to make it yourself. But, UWE's artists are more talented than just about anybody, and you'd be better off making their hard work work for you.
If you knew all this, and wanted to focus on the main body of the map, I understand. But hopefully this info will be helpful whenever you go to do detailing work :)
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
This looks like a good start. Remind a little of the ayumi outdoor part, except that ayumi uses red lights to contrast the blue/white. I assume you can only see that outside area through the windows as player?
First of all I'd make the ambient light a little darker and then add a true spotlight for the moon to have some nice, but subtle shadows on the scene (not too much, it's just the moon after all and most of the light should be ambient light). You can get some nice shadows by adding some height difference in the geometry outside above the windows shown in pic 1 and 3. The spot light doesn't have to hit the whole area and especially not the corridor; just some obstacles above it. Due to the darker ambient light you can use some spotlights at the walls casting a nice cone on the walls and use a low brightness high range light to add some ambient light around that cone and the snow below (probably some variation of blue).
The rocks need to look more natural/organic and less like a rock wall. You could use some slightly rotated rock walls or these rock pile props to get that curvy look on the top. In addition I'd intrude (would be better) or extrude a part of the rocks around the middle so it's closer or farther away and distracts more from the flat rock wall look. You could also add another tall sky building to break up the rocks and have something taller, which fills the sky.
First of all, thanks everyone for taking the time to post those great and helpful comments, I really appreciate that! :)
I have to agree the skybox doesn't look right. In fact the moon ended up on the wrong side, I was going to have it cast light inside through the windows. Then again it might look better if I just move the lights sources where the moon is.
At the moment I'm actually using really big spot lights to cast shadows to that skybox building and rocks on the ground, and only used one environment light to cast a subtle blue tint to those outdoors faces. I think I'm going to take you guys' suggestion and focus more on using environment lights for the scene.
The corridor is now almost solely lit by skylight but I will have that changed when I place actual indoor light sources to it. Overall I would like the outdoor area to be a little darker. Also I've tried to be careful to not go overboard with orange lights but maybe I could utilize them a bit more.
In that scene the only custom assets which you can see are the custom skybox and snow texture on the ground. I think those are both assets that will be needed in some form unless UWE creates them of course. I understand you concern of sloppily made custom assets in a custom map and will do my best to keep them at minimum. As UWE releases more props for us mappers to use I will try to gradually replace those props with more professionally looking ones.
About repetitive prop usage, you may be right, but since it's only spectators and commanders who will be looking at that area from the outside perspective, I don't think the repetitiveness is that big an issue. It's hard to know how far you should go trying to detail something like that. My idea was to rely more on the lighting than the "brushwork".
Both of you mentioned the rock prop wall and it's lack of depth. I'll try to do something about it. :P
The last screens catch the mood instantly! I love that space/snow/biodome/night theme that you combined!
The hallways look a bit too clean in my opinion. It lacks some little details that distinguish the many hallways. Also it seems that there is not much cover for the Aliens at the moment. The cold white/blue lightning really does a good job, though some tiny different color lights would make it not too cold, but I think you got your mood right when the plants are in to contrast that.
Really looking forward to the map! Keep it up!
EDIT
Also, I could do a Skybox texture if you want. In any resolution with Stars etc. You just have to tell me the deatils because i don't know how it will look when it's in the game. :)
The last screens catch the mood instantly! I love that space/snow/biodome/night theme that you combined!
The hallways look a bit too clean in my opinion. It lacks some little details that distinguish the many hallways. Also it seems that there is not much cover for the Aliens at the moment. The cold white/blue lightning really does a good job, though some tiny different color lights would make it not too cold, but I think you got your mood right when the plants are in to contrast that.
Really looking forward to the map! Keep it up!
EDIT
Also, I could do a Skybox texture if you want. In any resolution with Stars etc. You just have to tell me the deatils because i don't know how it will look when it's in the game. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, that would be great! I think one 1024x1024 texture for each of the six sides (actually 5, bottom part doesn't really matter because it will likely not show anyway).
Me and Varathar were thinking something along the lines of these two renders. I think the sky should be relatively dark with starts and a fairly big and gloomy moon. We can then align the skybox / our lights to make it appear that the moon is casting gentle shadows as Psyk0man suggested.
The textures should also tile to make seams in skybox less noticeable. In Terragen it was easy to just position the camera in the middle of the landscape and points cameras in all 6 directions. I'm not sure what the best practise is, but depending on the technique it might be easier to create a 4096x1024 texture and make the far ends tile with each other. Then there's of course the top part which should also tile with the other 4 faces.
And yeah, all those white particles you can see in the screen shots are actually "snow" (nanospark sprites to be precise) particles and not starts. :)
Comments
We are still alive and kicking, thanks for asking! :)
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r0/ns2_plant_marinestart.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r0/ns2_plant_readyroom.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r0/ns2_plant_marine_join.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm on vacation this week and have plenty of time to invest on this, so you can expect some more updates. Currently I'm working on
marine side of main hallway, which will connect marine side of the map to the resource nodes in the center of the map. Here is a little
something I've got so far. It's still missing lighting but hopefully I have managed to whip up some by the end of the day.
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r0/ns2_plant_main_hallway.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As a side note, here is my first attempt at creating some greenery in Blender.
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/misc/leaf.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As you can see, it's not terribly good, but it's a start none the less. :) If you know anyone who is capable of modeling / texturing plants
and would be interested in helping out, give me a PM!
I also wanted to post an overview image of map progress here, but I'm not sure what is the best method to do that? Should I just go into
spectate mode and take a print screen from above?
This looks really good! Hope it gets released by 1.0!!!
Just something that is standing out to me. Your first screenshot in your post right above me, the floor looks weird. I'm not a mapper so I'm not sure if there is a way to blend that line in so it doesnt look so jagged.
Good stuff!
This looks really good! Hope it gets released by 1.0!!!
Just something that is standing out to me. Your first screenshot in your post right above me, the floor looks weird. I'm not a mapper so I'm not sure if there is a way to blend that line in so it doesnt look so jagged.
Good stuff!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi Wiltdog!
Thanks for pointing that out. AFAIK the only way to hide those seams is to align the textures 'just right' and you don't neccessarily notice flaws like that if you don't happen to have lighting turned on.
It's starting to look great yeah but i wouldn't go that far.
Thanks for pointing that out. AFAIK the only way to hide those seams is to align the textures 'just right' and you don't neccessarily notice flaws like that if you don't happen to have lighting turned on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't it because one of the textures is rotated 90*, at least, that's what it looks like to me...
Oh and, how the ###### did you get textures to work for custom models? There are two (or more) threads commenting on how the builder does not compile models correctly AT ALL. Even OFFICIAL models (DAE) given to us by Brian.
Oh and, how the ###### did you get textures to work for custom models? There are two (or more) threads commenting on how the builder does not compile models correctly AT ALL. Even OFFICIAL models (DAE) given to us by Brian.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep. What I tried to say is that proper texture alignment can make the "90* seam" less noticeable.
It took me a while to get the texture to show up and in the end moving to Blender 2.57 from 2.55 (or 2.56 I'm not sure) fixed it for me.
I think the collada export plugin in earlier versions was somehow broken because after changing to 2.57 and exporting the
*.dds file from that everything worked fine. I didn't document the steps but I'll try to see if I can reproduce the same results
with Sketchup.
My points:
1. Big map, longer games
2. A lot resnodes, if there are only 6 players on marine team and in alien team, you will have to be protecting/destroying them all time, which is impossible to do because 5 marines cant be everywhere and same goes on aliens too even tho they are faster and more manouvorable (if i got it right :D), and ofcourse commanders will be building more at the same time players are destroying or protecting...
3. Big map, a lot tech points which will focus on more controlling the areas and supporting late game more (turrets, robotics factories, command consoles). Summit is a good example it actually is a bit too big for marines to hold ground (at this time of beta at least).
Just my thoughts, im tired only two hours sleep so i'm too lazy to recheck my post for errors (spelling errors mostly).
.. also rooms are really big, so it is favoring marines at least the beginning of game.., anyway it does look really great and hopefully it will be good map to play competively, honestly keep up the good work.
My points:
1. Big map, longer games
2. A lot resnodes, if there are only 6 players on marine team and in alien team, you will have to be protecting/destroying them all time, which is impossible to do because 5 marines cant be everywhere and same goes on aliens too even tho they are faster and more manouvorable (if i got it right :D), and ofcourse commanders will be building more at the same time players are destroying or protecting...
3. Big map, a lot tech points which will focus on more controlling the areas and supporting late game more (turrets, robotics factories, command consoles). Summit is a good example it actually is a bit too big for marines to hold ground (at this time of beta at least).
Just my thoughts, im tired only two hours sleep so i'm too lazy to recheck my post for errors (spelling errors mostly).
.. also rooms are really big, so it is favoring marines at least the beginning of game.., anyway it does look really great and hopefully it will be good map to play competively, honestly keep up the good work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, thanks for feedback oma!
We talked about this at IRC in finnish so I got full understanding of what are the problems oma noticed in this layout.
After talking with perso we decided to go for smaller layout because we can do that with very little changes and we don't have to throw much away. (We also noticed that our map layout is quite modular for going to 4/6 if you prefer.)
So we decided to go for 5/8 layout to get it more intense and smaller.
Here is the new layout of map
<img src="http://plantdev.dyndns.org/images/plant/layouts/ns2_plant_layout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
EDIT: Names in layout
EDIT: 15.3.2012 New link to picture
Deep thinking when it comes to the fight positions and vents with some immersion to the level and you will have the best map in NS2!
It has to be rave room!111
It's in the works. Vara had some great ideas for it but we still need to refine them a bit to make the room playable. I'm also one who wants to make the biodome as green and lush as possible for us, and those "to be created" plant models / particle effects should make that room really stand out. I recall reading a post where it said that water won't probably come into ns2 any time soon, so if we add water to the room, it will have to be only small puddles (which would feel weird without sounds) or inaccessible areas which use some water shaders.
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far:
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
<!--quoteo(post=1861141:date=Jul 17 2011, 01:42 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jul 17 2011, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume RR means rest room?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
<!--quoteo(post=1861143:date=Jul 17 2011, 02:07 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Jul 17 2011, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has to be rave room!111<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually!
(I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far:
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually!
(I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that a sort of silly object to make a model of? Its a relatively simple piece of geometry you could make out of faces
As for the biodome hexagons, this is what I have so far:
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/ns2_plant_hexagon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I know it's not nearly as detailed as UWE's trim models, but I tried to make it look like it's part of that prop set. Any ideas how to make it more spiffier?
I think it's also a lot easier to rotate those hexes in different weird angles when the prop is as simple as that. And I can assure you that there's going to be plenty of rotated surfaces.. >_>
LOL, i'm afraid it's not. :) But seriously, what is a space station without toilets!? This has to be taken into serious consideration in future revisions of the layout...
I'm so sorry TrC.. but you will get your rave room.., eventually!
(I hope Lazer or whoever came up with the original idea in ns_nancy remake approves :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that a sort of silly object to make a model of? Its a relatively simple piece of geometry you could make out of faces
edit: oh I see that you want to make a dome out of tiling that model... still seems like a mistake when faces are simpler
Well OK then! I look forward to seeing the results. Just keep in mind that using custom assets means having people finagle their game folders,. It can be a bit of a knock against it, but no biggie
(Too bad I bet weather effects have not been implemented yet...)
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That snow particle effect still needs some tweaking. Especially I would like to know if there is a way to start the cinematic at a specific key frame? I want it to
look like it's already snowing when the map is loaded, not start emitting particles then. :P
Any suggestions on how to make it look more outdoorish? How would you improve the lighting?
The skybox is something that I whipped up in Terragen 2. Unfortunately the free noncommercial version restricted me to 512x512 textures instead of 1024x1042 which would have looked much cleaner. Also I'm a noob to Terragen and I could have used more time tweaking the various settings.
I should probably start working on Biodome soon and not spend too much time on aesthetics like this, but it was so much fun experimenting. :P
edit: typos
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://mys6.kyla.fi/images/plant/r1/ns2_plant_outdoors_4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That snow particle effect still needs some tweaking. Especially I would like to know if there is a way to start the cinematic at a specific key frame? I want it to
look like it's already snowing when the map is loaded, not start emitting particles then. :P
Any suggestions on how to make it look more outdoorish? How would you improve the lighting?
The skybox is something that I whipped up in Terragen 2. Unfortunately the free noncommercial version restricted me to 512x512 textures instead of 1024x1042 which would have looked much cleaner. Also I'm a noob to Terragen and I could have used more time tweaking the various settings.
I should probably start working on Biodome soon and not spend too much time on aesthetics like this, but it was so much fun experimenting. :P
edit: typos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bravo! That's great work. I especially like the first shot, how you incorporated that skybox building looks so natural and well-lit.
A few things:
-Your lighting is not saturated enough. That's why your colors seem off. You need to make there be one, very dominant color to the scene, that way your props fall in line and their individual colors don't override the color of the scene as a whole. The best way to do this is a strong ambient light. Just be careful not to make it too strong, or you can get a really washed-out feeling. Try to find a balance that is subtle. Once you have that strong color, pick a secondary color. For instance, in your first screenshot, the dominant color would be that beautiful purple you've got going (which is really just so nice). The secondary color would be that warm oranges that compliment the purple so well. Use a powerful ambient light for the purple, and strong spotlights and point lights for the oranges. That way, I think you'll see something you really like.
-The sky texture looks bad. Just sayin. Not enough sharpness and the moon looks really goofy for some reason. Probably that low resolution you mentioned.
-You repeat that wall panel prop too many times for my liking. Once or twice is good, any more and you risk making the fact that its just a duplicated prop too obvious.
-In a similar vein to my last point, add more variety to your texturing on the outside walls, it's good, but it could be much better if you chopped up the use of that one texture you use on the upper portion of the wall.
-Vary your use of the rock prop so that it doesn't just repeat over and over. Also try and incorporate depth on more than one plane, right now the wall is of uniform height and doesn't really stick in or have depth backwards. That's no good.
All in all, the main problem I have with the screenshots you showed is not the lighting, but the over-use and repetition of assets. There are A LOT of assets, and you seem to be good at incorporating all kinds into your map. Try not to use so many custom materials! You can accomplish nearly the same effect and with a much better look by using the stock assets in a creative way, than by going and modelling them yourself. It's good practice to do that, and if something absolutely must be custom, you shouldn't hesitate to make it yourself. But, UWE's artists are more talented than just about anybody, and you'd be better off making their hard work work for you.
If you knew all this, and wanted to focus on the main body of the map, I understand. But hopefully this info will be helpful whenever you go to do detailing work :)
I assume you can only see that outside area through the windows as player?
First of all I'd make the ambient light a little darker and then add a true spotlight for the moon to have some nice, but subtle shadows on the scene (not too much, it's just the moon after all and most of the light should be ambient light). You can get some nice shadows by adding some height difference in the geometry outside above the windows shown in pic 1 and 3. The spot light doesn't have to hit the whole area and especially not the corridor; just some obstacles above it.
Due to the darker ambient light you can use some spotlights at the walls casting a nice cone on the walls and use a low brightness high range light to add some ambient light around that cone and the snow below (probably some variation of blue).
The rocks need to look more natural/organic and less like a rock wall. You could use some slightly rotated rock walls or these rock pile props to get that curvy look on the top.
In addition I'd intrude (would be better) or extrude a part of the rocks around the middle so it's closer or farther away and distracts more from the flat rock wall look.
You could also add another tall sky building to break up the rocks and have something taller, which fills the sky.
First of all, thanks everyone for taking the time to post those great and helpful comments, I really appreciate that! :)
I have to agree the skybox doesn't look right. In fact the moon ended up on the wrong side, I was going to have it cast light inside through the windows. Then again it might look better if I just move the lights sources where the moon is.
At the moment I'm actually using really big spot lights to cast shadows to that skybox building and rocks on the ground, and only used one environment light to cast a subtle blue tint to those outdoors faces. I think I'm going to take you guys' suggestion and focus more on using environment lights for the scene.
The corridor is now almost solely lit by skylight but I will have that changed when I place actual indoor light sources to it. Overall I would like the outdoor area to be a little darker. Also I've tried to be careful to not go overboard with orange lights but maybe I could utilize them a bit more.
In that scene the only custom assets which you can see are the custom skybox and snow texture on the ground. I think those are both assets that will be needed in some form unless UWE creates them of course. I understand you concern of sloppily made custom assets in a custom map and will do my best to keep them at minimum. As UWE releases more props for us mappers to use I will try to gradually replace those props with more professionally looking ones.
About repetitive prop usage, you may be right, but since it's only spectators and commanders who will be looking at that area from the outside perspective, I don't think the repetitiveness is that big an issue. It's hard to know how far you should go trying to detail something like that. My idea was to rely more on the lighting than
the "brushwork".
Both of you mentioned the rock prop wall and it's lack of depth. I'll try to do something about it. :P
The last screens catch the mood instantly! I love that space/snow/biodome/night theme that you combined!
The hallways look a bit too clean in my opinion. It lacks some little details that distinguish the many hallways.
Also it seems that there is not much cover for the Aliens at the moment.
The cold white/blue lightning really does a good job, though some tiny different color lights would make it not too cold, but I think you got your mood right when the plants are in to contrast that.
Really looking forward to the map! Keep it up!
EDIT
Also, I could do a Skybox texture if you want. In any resolution with Stars etc. You just have to tell me the deatils because i don't know how it will look when it's in the game. :)
The last screens catch the mood instantly! I love that space/snow/biodome/night theme that you combined!
The hallways look a bit too clean in my opinion. It lacks some little details that distinguish the many hallways.
Also it seems that there is not much cover for the Aliens at the moment.
The cold white/blue lightning really does a good job, though some tiny different color lights would make it not too cold, but I think you got your mood right when the plants are in to contrast that.
Really looking forward to the map! Keep it up!
EDIT
Also, I could do a Skybox texture if you want. In any resolution with Stars etc. You just have to tell me the deatils because i don't know how it will look when it's in the game. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, that would be great! I think one 1024x1024 texture for each of the six sides (actually 5, bottom part doesn't really matter because it will likely not show anyway).
Me and Varathar were thinking something along the lines of these two renders. I think the sky should be relatively dark with starts and a fairly big and gloomy moon. We can then align the skybox / our lights to make it appear that the moon is casting gentle shadows as Psyk0man suggested.
<a href="http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/Umek_Remaster_by_Wetbanana.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/...banana.jpg.html</a>
<a href="http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/In_the_Coldness_of_Space_by_freelancah.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/...lancah.jpg.html</a>
The textures should also tile to make seams in skybox less noticeable. In Terragen it was easy to just position the camera in the middle of the landscape and points cameras in all 6 directions. I'm not sure what the best practise is, but depending on the technique it might be easier to create a 4096x1024 texture and make the far ends tile with each other. Then there's of course the top part which should also tile with the other 4 faces.
And yeah, all those white particles you can see in the screen shots are actually "snow" (nanospark sprites to be precise) particles and not starts. :)
Will pm you when I got something.