Fade is a finesse class now, blink in, do some damage, blink out. It is SUPER effective when used this way. This is not a rambo game folks, it's a thinking game, play smart.
<!--quoteo(post=1860624:date=Jul 14 2011, 02:51 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Jul 14 2011, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is ok in my books.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UM2rW.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are not a very good teamplayer? I mean so much res. and you don't build something to support your team?
<!--quoteo(post=1860737:date=Jul 15 2011, 01:37 AM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jul 15 2011, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is a finesse class now, blink in, do some damage, blink out. It is SUPER effective when used this way. This is not a rambo game folks, it's a thinking game, play smart.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How blink out if you get hit by flames? you can't use your blink anymore then.
<!--quoteo(post=1860786:date=Jul 15 2011, 10:35 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 15 2011, 10:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are not a very good teamplayer? I mean so much res. and you don't build something to support your team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And sacrifice the fade in process, lag up the server and make sure marines lose the little bit fun they have left in end game?
Dont be silly, the res system is flawed not the player.
<!--quoteo(post=1860786:date=Jul 15 2011, 09:35 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 15 2011, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How blink out if you get hit by flames? you can't use your blink anymore then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> locate the flamer, blink in from a ambush, kill the flamer, blink out. return to kill the rest in a similar manner.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1859147:date=Jul 9 2011, 07:35 PM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Jul 9 2011, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fade is a joke now, he has such little energy that he can't even take on 2 marines any more....
I wasn't even able to kill a rambo flamer as a fade since the energy is sooooo low already I didnt have enough energy to swipe at him let alone escape!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just you being a bad fade, using all your energy before you encounter the flamer :) Fades can still take on 2-3 marines, if you are good at blinking. If you suck, you die. And with 'take on 2-3 marines', I mean kill one of them, go back to the gorge/hive/crag to heal, go back in combat.
Use UNDER half your energy to get to your target(less if there is a flamer), swipe, fast-blink(tap mouse2) or strafe around the marine, swipe, fast-blink/strafe around the marine, swipe, escape.
<!--quoteo(post=1860646:date=Jul 14 2011, 11:36 PM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 14 2011, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well like I said I don't object to lowering the gap, nor do I object to having a yield-curve type relationship between res cost and effectiveness in order to promote better risk/reward gameplay. I think they are solid ideas.
However the current environment is skewed by marines not having the "equivalent" of the fade, which is what makes the current 3v1 fade vs marines scenarios so evident. We would see far less outcry on this if the EXO and Jumppacks were in the game, which would inject the needed risk for fades. This is not to say your points are invalid, but even so, an environment with your ideas implemented would still suffer from not having these equivalents (albeit it would be less evident).
A new player with 25 res would fit fine here. Its not a new player versus that fade player. Its team versus team, and marine side will be better off having him there than not. With 25 res he could potentially have more pres than other players that started form the beginning. Its not a pressing issue imo. Of course a lowered effectiveness gap, a "yield curve" for effectiveness/pres and lowered pres pool max wouldn't hurt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, no one said I didn't want the marines to have a power-equivalent to the fade, so I think we're, finally, on the same page.
<!--quoteo(post=1860794:date=Jul 15 2011, 12:21 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Jul 15 2011, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860794"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And sacrifice the fade in process, lag up the server and make sure marines lose the little bit fun they have left in end game?
Dont be silly, the res system is flawed not the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I didn't want to gorge in between because that would have lost time, and going back to fade would have lost time as well. I was pretty much all the time at the front lines with one or two gorges, harrassing the marine base. Nevertheless they managed to take out all our hives.
There was plenty of hydras around, didn't want any more or even the best servers choke.
And about flamers, they're tricky to take down sure. But if you get all three hits in (or two) right away, you still have energy to blink away. Hell you can just run away from them because a flamer marine runs too slow to catch a fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1860109:date=Jul 12 2011, 09:05 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 12 2011, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Limiting weapons isn't a fun way either. Goes against letting players buy weapons in the first place.
They need to balance out the weapons so each gun has a use in combat. So players might actually use a different gun for it's benefits rather than using the same gun all day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> true that sounds better
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish I could destroy buildings with it as well. That's why we eventually lost that round.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can kill buildings you were just not aiming at buildings, you were aiming at marines. The only reason marines were coming at you with shotguns and flamers was because you were not taking out their res towers. I find fades to be the "decay" unit of the kharaa, you can swipe at everything along your path decaying it until it succumbs to damage, especially killing MACs which will repair the minor damages. It is risky because of the new energy drain for main attack, but it's either you attack their res towers to limit their weapons and building progress or the rest of your team suffers infinite shotgun blasts. You can always intercept a marine squad when they're halfway towards your RTs and then report their location to the rest of your team for cleanup to stall them so they don't go killing a cyst or something :P
Anyways I don't think their damage against buildings is too small because if it were more they would be able to just clean up the entire map.. the way it is now marines at least have a chance. As many kills as Skie got, <i>he lost the match</i>. So..........? Are kills really that important? I find people that are afraid of dying ruin the game.. if you die it gives the other team a small sense of accomplishment and you can use that to give them overconfidence to run into the rest of your team and die anyways, or at least be distracted. Sometimes if I die I'll just go straight to marines start and kill their IPs and commander.. sure I died but they lost the match by not expecting a base rush.. Think about it, in that screenshot you have 322 res, that's enough to sacrifice yourself to do an immense amount of damage to structures and not worry about death because you can come back as fade 7 times over and deal the same amount of damage to structures alone every single time. If you play it smart enough (killing MACs) their base will whittle away eventually.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited July 2011
How about a system that has a weapon become more expensive when you frequently buy the same gun? (Doesn't apply to commander dropped weapons.)
Like every time you buy a gun, a small tick gets added to the buy icon. Each tick makes the gun cost an additional 10 resources. And each tick adds a minute.
If you bought two shotguns in under two minutes. The price would be 35 res for the next shotgun.
Initial Price, add a tick. If a minute hasn't passed before the next purchase. The gun costs an additional 10 res, and adds another tick. Making the next gun cost another 10 additional res. ect.
This way people can have a late game res sink. And also be encouraged to try other weapons.
Comments
This is not a rambo game folks, it's a thinking game, play smart.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UM2rW.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are not a very good teamplayer?
I mean so much res. and you don't build something to support your team?
<!--quoteo(post=1860737:date=Jul 15 2011, 01:37 AM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jul 15 2011, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is a finesse class now, blink in, do some damage, blink out. It is SUPER effective when used this way.
This is not a rambo game folks, it's a thinking game, play smart.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How blink out if you get hit by flames? you can't use your blink anymore then.
I mean so much res. and you don't build something to support your team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And sacrifice the fade in process, lag up the server and make sure marines lose the little bit fun they have left in end game?
Dont be silly, the res system is flawed not the player.
locate the flamer, blink in from a ambush, kill the flamer, blink out.
return to kill the rest in a similar manner.
I wasn't even able to kill a rambo flamer as a fade since the energy is sooooo low already I didnt have enough energy to swipe at him let alone escape!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just you being a bad fade, using all your energy before you encounter the flamer :)
Fades can still take on 2-3 marines, if you are good at blinking. If you suck, you die.
And with 'take on 2-3 marines', I mean kill one of them, go back to the gorge/hive/crag to heal, go back in combat.
Use UNDER half your energy to get to your target(less if there is a flamer), swipe, fast-blink(tap mouse2) or strafe around the marine, swipe, fast-blink/strafe around the marine, swipe, escape.
However the current environment is skewed by marines not having the "equivalent" of the fade, which is what makes the current 3v1 fade vs marines scenarios so evident. We would see far less outcry on this if the EXO and Jumppacks were in the game, which would inject the needed risk for fades. This is not to say your points are invalid, but even so, an environment with your ideas implemented would still suffer from not having these equivalents (albeit it would be less evident).
A new player with 25 res would fit fine here. Its not a new player versus that fade player. Its team versus team, and marine side will be better off having him there than not. With 25 res he could potentially have more pres than other players that started form the beginning. Its not a pressing issue imo. Of course a lowered effectiveness gap, a "yield curve" for effectiveness/pres and lowered pres pool max wouldn't hurt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, no one said I didn't want the marines to have a power-equivalent to the fade, so I think we're, finally, on the same page.
Dont be silly, the res system is flawed not the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I didn't want to gorge in between because that would have lost time, and going back to fade would have lost time as well. I was pretty much all the time at the front lines with one or two gorges, harrassing the marine base. Nevertheless they managed to take out all our hives.
There was plenty of hydras around, didn't want any more or even the best servers choke.
And about flamers, they're tricky to take down sure. But if you get all three hits in (or two) right away, you still have energy to blink away.
Hell you can just run away from them because a flamer marine runs too slow to catch a fade.
They need to balance out the weapons so each gun has a use in combat. So players might actually use a different gun for it's benefits rather than using the same gun all day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true that sounds better
They can kill buildings you were just not aiming at buildings, you were aiming at marines. The only reason marines were coming at you with shotguns and flamers was because you were not taking out their res towers. I find fades to be the "decay" unit of the kharaa, you can swipe at everything along your path decaying it until it succumbs to damage, especially killing MACs which will repair the minor damages. It is risky because of the new energy drain for main attack, but it's either you attack their res towers to limit their weapons and building progress or the rest of your team suffers infinite shotgun blasts. You can always intercept a marine squad when they're halfway towards your RTs and then report their location to the rest of your team for cleanup to stall them so they don't go killing a cyst or something :P
Anyways I don't think their damage against buildings is too small because if it were more they would be able to just clean up the entire map.. the way it is now marines at least have a chance. As many kills as Skie got, <i>he lost the match</i>. So..........? Are kills really that important? I find people that are afraid of dying ruin the game.. if you die it gives the other team a small sense of accomplishment and you can use that to give them overconfidence to run into the rest of your team and die anyways, or at least be distracted. Sometimes if I die I'll just go straight to marines start and kill their IPs and commander.. sure I died but they lost the match by not expecting a base rush.. Think about it, in that screenshot you have 322 res, that's enough to sacrifice yourself to do an immense amount of damage to structures and not worry about death because you can come back as fade 7 times over and deal the same amount of damage to structures alone every single time. If you play it smart enough (killing MACs) their base will whittle away eventually.
(insert evil laugh here)
Like every time you buy a gun, a small tick gets added to the buy icon. Each tick makes the gun cost an additional 10 resources. And each tick adds a minute.
If you bought two shotguns in under two minutes. The price would be 35 res for the next shotgun.
Initial Price, add a tick. If a minute hasn't passed before the next purchase. The gun costs an additional 10 res, and adds another tick. Making the next gun cost another 10 additional res. ect.
This way people can have a late game res sink. And also be encouraged to try other weapons.
Shotgun is under priced for its power right now. That and...Rifle, FT and GL are not nearly as great in combat compared to the SG