I don't understand whats the problem to change the Lerk flying to like : fly to the direction you look and hold space, if you want up = press Space, if you want down = press crouch!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> have u played ns1? the lerk flight there is so easy to adopt to but still incredibly strong
The new <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>lerk flight is AWESOME!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> ..but completely different than the old one.
You can't just try to make it work in the old way, because you will end up frustrated. (am I right? ;-) )
Instead do that: Jumpspam like hell and press forward, looking in the direction you want to fly (up, down, and so on) if you want to aim down while flying straight THEN you have to hold jump and glide. (for bonbing runs e.g. )
Sure it sounds strange, but you will gain enormous speed and good flight control.
The new <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>lerk flight is AWESOME!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>NOT!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed. Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok. The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things. Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now. Skulk is the best class in 180.
<!--quoteo(post=1859493:date=Jul 10 2011, 12:51 PM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 10 2011, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No its <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>NOT!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed. Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok. The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things. Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now. Skulk is the best class in 180.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's so hard to glide now :( Before, you could simply jump twice and start gliding, and to gain speed, just press space, no matter if you hold W in. I find it kinda hard to gain height as I have to release the W key just to get height when gliding.
<!--quoteo(post=1859493:date=Jul 10 2011, 12:51 PM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 10 2011, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No its <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>NOT!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed. Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok. The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things. Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now. Skulk is the best class in 180.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is intuitive. Jump to get airborne, while holding nothing down but jump you move straight up. Apply your forward key and you move the way you are looking. Want to glide? Hold the jump button and direct your mouse where you want to go... kinda like your eyes. Want to gain speed? Look downwards and you glide faster though get closer to the ground. Want to break in mid air? Why would you want to break in mid air....Swoop around and do a 180. You dont have a jet pack. You are a giant reptile bird not a jet packer. If you want horrible flight controls as you describe wait for marine jet pack.
Saying "The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things." Is ridiculous since you learned the absolutely horrible flight or the previous lerk. Stop complaining and suck it up. It isnt changing. Also saying there are a lot of bad things says nothing but your opinion which you have already stated above.
admittedly i wish it was a faster flight. When i "flap" or hit jump, i would like a better speed increase. Other than that an awesome way to go about flight control.
No it isn't intuitive, you have five directional controls, forward, right, backwards, left, and up.
All of the planar movement keys blend between each other when you press two of them, press left and forwards and you move diagonally forwards, to have the up key move you forwards if you press forwards with it and up if you press nothing is really stupid.
It'd be like if when you press W and D you went forwards, but when you let go of W you went right, and there was no diagonal.
I only play as skulk now, used to only play lerk. Too hard to play it. Not playing gorge, lerk or fade. Fade dies too fast now due to low energy, new lerk flight is difficult to adapt to, and the gorge is a gorge, which I never really use.
I think the lerk flap should be more aggressive. High acceleration with lower maximum speed. That way the lerk can make fast manuevers. Without trying to guess the exact formula for lift/forward-ratio, I'd say just port NS1 code and work from there. The lerk has to be very responsive, so it can make sudden 180 near a shotgun and still survive. Now that feels impossible. The momentum drags the lerk into whatever direction it was going to.
Also I wouldn't recommend limiting the range for spores this much since going close-by with a lerk is always risky. Just increase the adrenaline cost to what it was NS1. Spores should be passive background weapon, and spikes should be a close-combat weapon. Bite would be great but shotgun spikes will do. They don't need to have gravity, just limited ranged and high damage (maybe close to marine shotgun).
Also theres no celerity in the game, NS1 lerk was very fun with cele speeds. I'd like to see similar upgrade for the lerk (and for the skulk, fade, gorge and onos too).
I think the last update was a move to the right direction but the lerk seems to drop like a stone without gliding.
<!--quoteo(post=1859527:date=Jul 10 2011, 08:20 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Jul 10 2011, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is intuitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not! If it would be intuitive it would be easy for everyone, but its not.
I will record a video and show you then soon what i mean.
Just played my first proper p180 game where i got to go lerk for about 20mins. At first i was like huh, but honestly within 30seconds i was flying like a pro, it is really basic once you get the hang of it! You can blitz around the map at max speed with ease! the only problem is when a marine tags you with some bullets, then your basicaly toast because your not going to get away.. Once this is somewhat modified ill be really happy with the lerk (would also be good if spore range was maybe 15-20m, 10m is just to short to be useful)
If you have patience, interest, and understanding, see <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114129" target="_blank">this thread on lerk flight</a>.
RTV you probably need to edit your post again when the frames go up and the lag will go down. With proper frame rates the lerk will be getting more and more useless. I dont know if you played ns1 recently but the ns1 lerk is amazingly agile in the air, but still if you get caught on an edge for even half a second you are dead instantly. when the people will be able to aim better you need to rebalance the lerk again (thats why i dont understand the devs tweaking those things, before getting the game to a playable state).
hadn't played in awhile but i got a chance to play last night. the only thing i don't really like about the new lerk is the flight. give me twice as much thrust when i hit the space bar, i feel like i had to hit it a million times really fast just to make it into a vent. it is most definitely worse than before. the old flight was just fine.
edit: and having spikes be so effective short range just makes me think we should put bite back in. let the lerk keep sniper mode though. i don't know. i guess the lerk right now feels confusing as to his roll. mid range is a crappy role for any alien btw. mid range is not safe. aliens are in your face or out of range. if the lifeform isn't one of those, he's most likely dead.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1861998:date=Jul 20 2011, 04:52 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Jul 20 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and having spikes be so effective short range just makes me think we should put bite back in. let the lerk keep sniper mode though. i don't know. i guess the lerk right now feels confusing as to his roll. mid range is a crappy role for any alien btw. mid range is not safe. aliens are in your face or out of range. if the lifeform isn't one of those, he's most likely dead...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you might be correct, but im still curious how the lerk evolves in upcoming patches with spikes. i remember the time in ns1 where the lerk had bite and spikes. almost nobody used bite (the flight model was not supporting that, no "glide" and less air control).
i was watching Trcs youtube videos showing off twiliteblues' flight mod, thats really cool. very agile and still being able to shoot your spikes while performing maneuvers
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TrC450#p/u/13/yG_IDwuKN0M" target="_blank">#53 Natural Selection 2 Lerkmod by twiliteblue part 2</a>
Only the ability to gain altitude by looking up, in exchange of speed is needed. I'd also like unrestricted max speed from diving. To prevent people getting light speed just from repeatedly flying up and diving down again, pointing upwards could slowly drop you to a max speed, which can only be overridden by one long and constant dive. Would be quite cool like that since e.g. crevice would become the ultimate "lerk airport" to get a really nice boost for high speed boom'n'zoom style attacks :D
<!--quoteo(post=1863048:date=Jul 24 2011, 03:37 PM:name=Schreq)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schreq @ Jul 24 2011, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only the ability to gain altitude by looking up, in exchange of speed is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is possible, I do it all the time. unless I misunderstood what you are actually trying to do.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1863265:date=Jul 25 2011, 03:14 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 25 2011, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is possible, I do it all the time. unless I misunderstood what you are actually trying to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gliding upwards is quite tricky atm. The upward angle of attack is quite limited. If you look up (or left/right) too suddenly, the Lerk ends up losing flight control and falls down.
Don't look up, just press jump and stop pressing the forwardkey, then you go up, but yeah its a bit tricky sometimes but the flying is so much fun, its awesome i play only lerk for now ^^
<!--quoteo(post=1863269:date=Jul 25 2011, 11:27 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 25 2011, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gliding upwards is quite tricky atm. The upward angle of attack is quite limited. If you look up (or left/right) too suddenly, the Lerk ends up losing flight control and falls down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ah it was when gliding, yea that's a bit hard to do. when diving at crevice you loose control almost all the time. w + space works nice though, or release glide, press space and then glide again.
I do not believe the basic flight should be difficult at all. As a matter of fact, I think it should be as easy as other aliens move around.
I say, make lerk flight basically like movement, holding space locks you at a height, reduce movement speed when trying to strafe left or right, or move backwards. To move up tap space bar.
I cannot think of a better scheme for flying. Also, diving seems like a great idea, so in my system when you let go of the space bar and you're holding 'forward' you glide in the direction, if you hit the space bar at some point, it takes the speed of your glide and adds it to your upward thrust.
<!--quoteo(post=1863341:date=Jul 25 2011, 04:48 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jul 25 2011, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not believe the basic flight should be difficult at all. As a matter of fact, I think it should be as easy as other aliens move around.
I say, make lerk flight basically like movement, holding space locks you at a height, reduce movement speed when trying to strafe left or right, or move backwards. To move up tap space bar.
I cannot think of a better scheme for flying. Also, diving seems like a great idea, so in my system when you let go of the space bar and you're holding 'forward' you glide in the direction, if you hit the space bar at some point, it takes the speed of your glide and adds it to your upward thrust.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea. I think it'd be cool to see lerks fighting while hovering in the air and strafing back and forth rather than having to do flybys all the time.
Comments
I don't understand whats the problem to change the Lerk flying to like : fly to the direction you look and hold space, if you want up = press Space, if you want down = press crouch!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have u played ns1? the lerk flight there is so easy to adopt to but still incredibly strong
The new <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>lerk flight is AWESOME!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
..but completely different than the old one.
You can't just try to make it work in the old way, because you will end up frustrated. (am I right? ;-) )
Instead do that:
Jumpspam like hell and press forward, looking in the direction you want to fly (up, down, and so on)
if you want to aim down while flying straight THEN you have to hold jump and glide.
(for bonbing runs e.g. )
Sure it sounds strange, but you will gain enormous speed and good flight control.
Try it out!
The new <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>lerk flight is AWESOME!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>NOT!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed.
Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok.
The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things.
Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now.
Skulk is the best class in 180.
Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed.
Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok.
The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things.
Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now.
Skulk is the best class in 180.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's so hard to glide now :( Before, you could simply jump twice and start gliding, and to gain speed, just press space, no matter if you hold W in. I find it kinda hard to gain height as I have to release the W key just to get height when gliding.
Its hard, its not very intuitive, and if a marine hits you, you slow down like -80% of the speed.
Also its hard to "break" in air...its that hard, i never will play lerk until its "fixed" its so annyoing, the old one was hard but could be learned and you could fly, it was ok.
The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things.
Maybe there bugs, but i hate lerk now.
Skulk is the best class in 180.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is intuitive. Jump to get airborne, while holding nothing down but jump you move straight up. Apply your forward key and you move the way you are looking. Want to glide? Hold the jump button and direct your mouse where you want to go... kinda like your eyes. Want to gain speed? Look downwards and you glide faster though get closer to the ground. Want to break in mid air? Why would you want to break in mid air....Swoop around and do a 180. You dont have a jet pack. You are a giant reptile bird not a jet packer. If you want horrible flight controls as you describe wait for marine jet pack.
Saying "The new one is impossible to learn, because its not doing what i want it should to, also there a lot of bad things." Is ridiculous since you learned the absolutely horrible flight or the previous lerk. Stop complaining and suck it up. It isnt changing. Also saying there are a lot of bad things says nothing but your opinion which you have already stated above.
admittedly i wish it was a faster flight. When i "flap" or hit jump, i would like a better speed increase. Other than that an awesome way to go about flight control.
All of the planar movement keys blend between each other when you press two of them, press left and forwards and you move diagonally forwards, to have the up key move you forwards if you press forwards with it and up if you press nothing is really stupid.
It'd be like if when you press W and D you went forwards, but when you let go of W you went right, and there was no diagonal.
Also I wouldn't recommend limiting the range for spores this much since going close-by with a lerk is always risky. Just increase the adrenaline cost to what it was NS1. Spores should be passive background weapon, and spikes should be a close-combat weapon. Bite would be great but shotgun spikes will do. They don't need to have gravity, just limited ranged and high damage (maybe close to marine shotgun).
Also theres no celerity in the game, NS1 lerk was very fun with cele speeds. I'd like to see similar upgrade for the lerk (and for the skulk, fade, gorge and onos too).
I think the last update was a move to the right direction but the lerk seems to drop like a stone without gliding.
No its not!
If it would be intuitive it would be easy for everyone, but its not.
I will record a video and show you then soon what i mean.
With proper frame rates the lerk will be getting more and more useless. I dont know if you played ns1 recently but the ns1 lerk is amazingly agile in the air, but still if you get caught on an edge for even half a second you are dead instantly.
when the people will be able to aim better you need to rebalance the lerk again (thats why i dont understand the devs tweaking those things, before getting the game to a playable state).
edit: and having spikes be so effective short range just makes me think we should put bite back in. let the lerk keep sniper mode though. i don't know. i guess the lerk right now feels confusing as to his roll. mid range is a crappy role for any alien btw. mid range is not safe. aliens are in your face or out of range. if the lifeform isn't one of those, he's most likely dead.
you might be correct, but im still curious how the lerk evolves in upcoming patches with spikes.
i remember the time in ns1 where the lerk had bite and spikes. almost nobody used bite
(the flight model was not supporting that, no "glide" and less air control).
i was watching Trcs youtube videos showing off twiliteblues' flight mod, thats really cool.
very agile and still being able to shoot your spikes while performing maneuvers
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TrC450#p/u/13/yG_IDwuKN0M" target="_blank">#53 Natural Selection 2 Lerkmod by twiliteblue part 2</a>
The lerk is so awesome, just learn how to play.
The Fade is a bit hard, but the lerk is intuitive :P.
This is possible, I do it all the time.
unless I misunderstood what you are actually trying to do.
unless I misunderstood what you are actually trying to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gliding upwards is quite tricky atm. The upward angle of attack is quite limited. If you look up (or left/right) too suddenly, the Lerk ends up losing flight control and falls down.
ah it was when gliding, yea that's a bit hard to do. when diving at crevice you loose control almost all the time.
w + space works nice though, or release glide, press space and then glide again.
I say, make lerk flight basically like movement, holding space locks you at a height, reduce movement speed when trying to strafe left or right, or move backwards. To move up tap space bar.
I cannot think of a better scheme for flying. Also, diving seems like a great idea, so in my system when you let go of the space bar and you're holding 'forward' you glide in the direction, if you hit the space bar at some point, it takes the speed of your glide and adds it to your upward thrust.
I say, make lerk flight basically like movement, holding space locks you at a height, reduce movement speed when trying to strafe left or right, or move backwards. To move up tap space bar.
I cannot think of a better scheme for flying. Also, diving seems like a great idea, so in my system when you let go of the space bar and you're holding 'forward' you glide in the direction, if you hit the space bar at some point, it takes the speed of your glide and adds it to your upward thrust.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea. I think it'd be cool to see lerks fighting while hovering in the air and strafing back and forth rather than having to do flybys all the time.