[181] MACs & ARCs fall through floor?
Wavesonics
Join Date: 2006-12-02 Member: 58833Members
Join Date: 2006-12-02 Member: 58833Members
I was comming in a 181 game just now, and had MACs disappear when they tried to go up ramps some times, and had ARCs just disappear entirely on flat ground (I think they fell through the floor, though one time one of them teleported into the ceiling.)
Oh also, on Summit, I had MACs repeatedly get stuck on the stairs in front of the command chair.
Other than that though the new pathing is a huge win! Over all the whole patch feels really great, keep up the good work!
Oh also, on Summit, I had MACs repeatedly get stuck on the stairs in front of the command chair.
Other than that though the new pathing is a huge win! Over all the whole patch feels really great, keep up the good work!
Comments
I can't tell if my ARCs are falling through the floor but they often get stuck or disappear. MACs get stuck too, or refuse to move where I tell them to.
It's obviously using a different approach because things move differently, but it doesn't seem much of an improvement in practice.
I think this would help to reduce exploits and lag that's caused when these entities are teleporting outside the map.
Also remember that Drifters can be made to self-destruct via 'Drifter-Flare' evn though this serves another purpose.
I wonder if any of the dev's would like to give a quick comment on this thought?
Because players are physically simulated, sort of, whereas macs and arcs and things use a far more simplified approach, which is easier on the processor, essentially they can go wherever they like, the computer just only puts them inside the map, except for when it doesn't.
Basically players have to be forced to stay in the map, whereas macs and arcs can just be programmed not to try to go outside it.
The mesh system has its draw backs which is more or less at generation time, and with the complex meshes; one of the issues we are seeing with NS2 right now is levels are pretty complex things like stairs etc... can be tough to generate a clear path on withe mesh system without doing some tricks(which we are not doing at the moment). when we load the level one of the things we have to add to the mesh are all the static props and when we add them we use the physics geometry of the mesh this can at times result in a mesh that is not very optimal for pathing and needs to be simplified even more; this is something we are just going to need to work on as time goes on. The result of the lack of this simplification is nodes especially in stairs being under the ground which is something we will fix.
The other major change was I moved a lot of code from c++ to lua as to allow modders more control over pathing.
So this leads me to the plans for 182 and the things I will get fixed for that patch.
* Macs/Drifters/Arcs falling through the ground - I already have the fix for that
* Nodes being in the ground which cause paths to be not optimal - I already have a fix for this
* Mesh generation options being hardcoded in c++ - The support for these values to be set from script is there I just need to hook them up into the c++ side.
* Mac weld/build orders being inconsistent and causing the mac to freak out
* Mac slow down when moving
* Reduce the size of all obstacles cylinders which cause blocked pathing - Right now we use the model bounding box as the basis for the object that gets added in to block paths. It seems a little much for most things and causes a lot of blocking
* Increase the Agent radius for path checking
* Allow mapper to set pathing options for their maps
* Allow doors when locked or welded to block pathing
Some things that may go in depending on time but are more likely for 183:
* Seperation steering behavior - this will prevent units from stacking on top of each other
* Adding new flags in the pathing system that can be used for build checking - The main goal of this is to no longer need to do tracing to check if something can be built on something or not as we can query the mesh as see flags for that area.
* Fix issues with off-mesh connections in vents etc..
* Fix perf issues with loading static props on the client in bigger maps.
These are the goals over the next 2 weeks so bear with me on the bugs as I will fix them and this system was a pretty big change from the old system so I suspect there will be some :P
Conceivably you could also use it for waypoints and it should fix the thing where you can build on walls as commander. Also I'm guessing it can take into account things like buildings blocking up areas, and if you used it for waypointing then the game could even maybe plot a route for you to get past obstructions.
Also as someone who placed a nodegraph in source, thank god for procedurally generated navmeshes.
I do not know what my having worked at Blizzard has to do with anything... On top of that I am confused by everyones lack of what the term beta means LOL If you have played in any game beta before you know that changes get made a lot and bugs happen. This system is better as I mentioned in the post above; yes there is several bugs that make it feel like the system is not as good as the previous one but the technical side of it is much better. The paths generated are better and the usefulness/perf of the mesh is pretty major.
As for using Recast the reason we went with this system which btw is very similar to blizzards own pathing system for Starcraft 2 is because it was less work; I mean why reinvent the wheel over and over I am not about having to roll my own thing everytime I write a new system. This system is used in many other games out there.. to name some KillZone 3, BulletStorm and yes its going to take a patch or two to refine this system.
And BTW all the praise about cysts being placeable and not needing LOS etc... that system is using the pathing system :P to find connections etc.. So it does do its job well :P
Ah so that explains why it messes up if you place them too close to the wall and also why it seems as though it almost calculates distance round corners?
Tis much nicer than the other approach certainly.
Tis much nicer than the other approach certainly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it should still work if you place it on walls :D and it does calculate around corners now there is a couple issues with that... which will get fixed in 182
As for using Recast the reason we went with this system which btw is very similar to blizzards own pathing system for Starcraft 2 is because it was less work; I mean why reinvent the wheel over and over I am not about having to roll my own thing everytime I write a new system. This system is used in many other games out there.. to name some KillZone 3, BulletStorm and yes its going to take a patch or two to refine this system.
And BTW all the praise about cysts being placeable and not needing LOS etc... that system using the pathing system :P to find connections etc.. So it does do its job well :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After playing WoW for years, and the dissapointment that was sc2 multiplayer, I have very little confidence in blizzard employees, the fact that you put this system in when it was obviously very flawed and needed fixing was a bad move on your part, it took me 30 minutes of play time to find out the issues, if there were this many issues that broke the macs and arcs so much it should NOT have gone into the newest build until it was better than the previous pathfinding.
But MACs and ARCs falling through the floor is a big bummer. I hope it gets sorted in the next patch since I am an extremely aggressive MAC user!
It does generally, but if you place like a minicyst right up intersecting the wall, it won't connect, not a bad thing by any means, just interesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1863199:date=Jul 25 2011, 04:20 AM:name=CrazyFarmer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrazyFarmer @ Jul 25 2011, 04:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, you're an ass, he obviously worked as a software engineer at blizzard not a game designer, the pathing in SC2 was great and your other points are irrelevant. They pushed it out because it's now at least working so it can be tested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I mean, of all the things to criticise blizzard for, the pathfinding in starcraft is hardly one of them.
I don't like the game but technically it's extremely well put together.
I WISH ns2 was as polished as starcraft 2.
Yeah i'll admit the pathing in sc2 was great, but that still doesn't change the fact of my low confidence of blizzard, but the fact remains if the pathfinding was so broken it should not have been included in this build, they have in house testing for things like this, beta testing is finding small remaining bugs/exploits/glitches and testing balence., if anythign this pathfinding is alpha at best, the fact that it has broken the macs and arcs so horribly they can't be used, severely hampers the ability to test the rest of the game as marines lose a key feature and then turns quickly into aliens slowly creep up with hydras and crags
Take your fanboy bull###### somewhere else please.
(edit: meh, "fanboy" isn't perfect word, but...)
(edit: meh, "fanboy" isn't perfect word, but...)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fail, you seem to be confused, let me help you
Fanboy
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like.
wow. just leave these forums. you seriously lack any knowledge or acceptance of the situation at hand and the nature of this pre order. add on top of that you are a ###### who recently signed up.. well.. i rest my case. just gtfo your attitude is not welcome here.
gj wacko, keep up the good work, appreciate the detailed info. dont let guys like this de motivate you, its the internet. :)
gj wacko, keep up the good work, appreciate the detailed info. dont let guys like this de motivate you, its the internet. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've done beta testing for multiple games, I've done bug testing and QA for ubi-soft, and EA I'm pretty sure I've got more knowledge of the situation than you do. This is a beta test, not an alpha test, as the new pathing stands now it's in the alpha stage as it's a new system, an alpha pathing system should be restricted to developer testing only as it serve no purpose to release it to the general beta testers as there are still major flaws with the system, you're only going to get massive reports about the obvious flaws that took less then half a round to find with the system, the pathing system should have been fixed and released in the next build not this one, Also join date does not dictate weither someone's points are valid or not.
you're completely correct.
being a ###### to the devs however, removes any potential validity to any argument you may have.
if you think QA for ubisoft has any similarity or relation with what UWE is doing here with their community then that's your problem right there.
bring your ideas and even criticisms along with that logic, but take the the attitude elsewhere - we wish for them to continue community involvement and not dread it. multiple people have bit your bait in this thread, and responded telling you this, so just take it that maybe this once other people might be onto something.
Had some fun reproducing the bug. You can sometimes get the MACs to get back into the map (if you still have them selected or if you can find them outside the MAC).
While I understand how the new system has the potential to be much better than the previous one, these bugs make it pretty unusable right now. Then again, there are other issues breaking B181 gameplay (lerk spores, skulk bite bug), that the bugs in the new pathing system kind of seem less important.
The MACs are not lost. and they are more responsive.
g.j. <b>wacko</b> .. keep up the good work!
I think i would of left those crooks out if i where you. :(
UBI= 10 minutes of gameplay and 20 minutes of trying to connect.
EA=Windows Live was a huge "FAIL" for them. LOse you email access,lose your game(s).
Before you use a reference like that maybe you should see the Q&A of the perspective entity. In this case you lost a lot of credibility with this bunch.