<!--quoteo(post=1861818:date=Jul 20 2011, 01:48 AM:name=hate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hate @ Jul 20 2011, 01:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What happens when you're at low energy and you need to run (or quickly accelerate) away from a marine? You can't leap, but you can't get up to speed before you die. Seems frustrating, and I don't see how what you described would enhance gameplay enough to counteract that. Just because something is harder, doesn't mean it's more "tactical."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who is to say if you're Energy is low you shouldn't already be dead? Yes, currently Leap is too expensive to facilitate this sort of thing, but we're still in beta and that's subject to change as well.
Instead of deciding the result of an idea the moment I hear it, I test it, because I realize that there are many things that can't be accounted for just by theorizing and referring to past experience. I've tested a cheaper, weaker leap; being afforded even one extra Leap, even with the distance each Leap covers being reduced, is much more forgiving and enjoyable.
Also, I did not say that just because something is harder that it's necessarily more tactical, but I think you'd agree most games would be supremely boring if they didn't require some amount of technical skill.
<!--quoteo(post=1861901:date=Jul 20 2011, 09:06 AM:name=Rico5559)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rico5559 @ Jul 20 2011, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, taking away automatic skulk wall walk is the most counter-intuitive idea regarding the skulk's movement. This is only outdone by switching how you control wall walk while leaping, by deciding how long to hold down a button? Not sure how large your keyboards are, but anyone whos been playing computer games for over a year or so should automatically have thumb:spacebar pointer finger:d middle finger:w ring finger:a pinky:shift/ctrl syndrome. Now imagine you're holding down shiftbar to sit above a doorway waiting on a marine and you realize its a hive push, typing that to your teammates while holding down shift to make sure you don't fall into the line of fire?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess we should be able to Toggle PrimaryFire then as well, so that we can all have a chat while we're in combat :P
I don't know about you, I'd much rather be inconvenienced typing than maneuvering. Competitive players are going to be using mics anyways, and while I understand the game needs to be accessible, I really don't see this as a deal-breaking issue: Players can learn to find a safe-spot, or use the sayings menu. I do, however, respect your right to your own opinion/preference.
I'm 24. I've played video games since I was 7. Can type about 90 words/minute. I CAN press it, but I've never been comfortable using Ctrl at any length. It's the most awkward button press (of those in your immediate finger range) for me, and I'd say my hands are pretty average sized.
<!--quoteo(post=1862119:date=Jul 21 2011, 02:40 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 21 2011, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862119"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If Ctrl is the issue, you can always just rebind it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahaha, yeah I know. I didn't write 50 lines of code JUST to avoid re-binding a button.
<!--quoteo(post=1862119:date=Jul 21 2011, 01:40 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 21 2011, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862119"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If Ctrl is the issue, you can always just rebind it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said the same thing and it seemed no one cared =/
Skulks are designed to be non-linear in nature, and making them linear base-line but able to go un-linear doesn't make sense.
For those who don't got a clue what I'm saying, Linear in terms of movement is straight, back, left, and right on a single plane.
<!--quoteo(post=1862328:date=Jul 22 2011, 03:01 AM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryknow69 @ Jul 22 2011, 03:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862328"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are designed to be non-linear in nature<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> According to whom/what? NS1?
<!--quoteo(post=1862780:date=Jul 23 2011, 01:59 PM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Jul 23 2011, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh come on Kuban, you are really going to dispute that? You should run for a Republican congress seat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately that joke/stab/implication is lost on me because I don't follow politics, but I haven't started disputing anything yet, just asking where he's getting that information from. I'd honestly like to know where the design of the Skulk is explicated, and where it says that the Skulk was designed to have "non-linear movement".
EDIT: I'm aware the Aliens are intended to have Skill-based Movement, but this does not necessarily imply that they need the current "non-linear movement". That's just one solution, I'm merely suggesting another.
If it was from NS1, I would argue that a lot has change since NS1 and as such we shouldn't go throwing out ideas just because they don't nod to the classic. If there's a document, blog post, video, or any sort of content post-NS2 that even INFERS that the Skulk is, by design, <b>dependent</b> on non-linear movement I'm interested in seeing it.
As it stands, this entire game is subject to change, so I don't ever see "That's not the way it is/was intended" as a valid argument. What's so wrong with trying something new, other than frightening the Vets that are so hopelessly inured to NS1?
<!--quoteo(post=1861201:date=Jul 17 2011, 09:15 AM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Jul 17 2011, 09:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never understood why people are so resistant to change, even when an obvious improvement presents itself. It's just incredible that everyone is saying "No, I'd rather hold the extra button for no justified reason."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just easier to have one unstick button that you use consistently. Crouch is the most logical choice because skulks can't crouch; and crouch is so important that it is in a position where it is super-easy to press(as an ESDF player, that's Z and my pinky is just resting there 99% of the time while I'm playing).
Nah, you dont want to do this. I think if you know how to leap, skulks are one of the most deadliest of forms. If you arent allow to stick to walls, it removes the power of double jumps off walls. While skulk, its fun to not just leap directly at the target. This is not the main reason for the leap. Its to get out of sticky situations and also to make your movement different. if you do it right you can never be shot at until close enough.
What you do to get to a target is not just leap straight forward. You want to go at an angel to the side. If you do this, you can hold right-click, look at a wall, and before you hit it, look at the target, (while still holding right-click), and you will go at them. As a marine this is a very hard thing to hit because you move so fast while you leap. You in essences, make a V shape like this:
Now if this was removed, this move would be made impossible and would make the skulk less dangerous because you wouldn't stick to the wall, therefor you would fall to the ground and lose all your speed.
<!--quoteo(post=1863409:date=Jul 25 2011, 05:05 PM:name=inFamous Fighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inFamous Fighter @ Jul 25 2011, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now if this was removed, this move would be made impossible and would make the skulk less dangerous because you wouldn't stick to the wall, therefor you would fall to the ground and lose all your speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do they not teach critical reading in elementary school anymore? In my suggestion, if you release the mouse when leaping you will become sticky again. Your bounce move would be possible simply by double-tapping the right mouse button instead of holding it.
Here's an idear: Have a tick box in the options menu to enable/disable wall-stick while leaping. I'd like this because I prefer automatically sticking to walls while leaping without having to press a button. This would also streamline controls and make them easier to use while allowing both ways of playing.
If you tick the box the skulk sticks to walls while leaping unless you press a button (ctrl).
If you untick the box the skulk does not stick to walls while leaping unless you press a button.
<!--quoteo(post=1863409:date=Jul 25 2011, 05:05 PM:name=inFamous Fighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inFamous Fighter @ Jul 25 2011, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nah, you dont want to do this. I think if you know how to leap, skulks are one of the most deadliest of forms. If you arent allow to stick to walls, it removes the power of double jumps off walls. While skulk, its fun to not just leap directly at the target. This is not the main reason for the leap. Its to get out of sticky situations and also to make your movement different. if you do it right you can never be shot at until close enough.
What you do to get to a target is not just leap straight forward. You want to go at an angel to the side. If you do this, you can hold right-click, look at a wall, and before you hit it, look at the target, (while still holding right-click), and you will go at them. As a marine this is a very hard thing to hit because you move so fast while you leap. You in essences, make a V shape like this:
Now if this was removed, this move would be made impossible and would make the skulk less dangerous because you wouldn't stick to the wall, therefor you would fall to the ground and lose all your speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not suggesting you remove the functionality, he's proposing giving players more complete control by disabling wall-walk until you've released the Leap button (RMB). In other words, if you were to just tap Leap (as opposed to holding it down), you'd be able to stick to something immediately, but if you held it down it would be as if you were holding Crouch.
A straightforward, and good idea. Removes the need to hold two buttons in many situations.
Comments
Who is to say if you're Energy is low you shouldn't already be dead? Yes, currently Leap is too expensive to facilitate this sort of thing, but we're still in beta and that's subject to change as well.
Instead of deciding the result of an idea the moment I hear it, I test it, because I realize that there are many things that can't be accounted for just by theorizing and referring to past experience. I've tested a cheaper, weaker leap; being afforded even one extra Leap, even with the distance each Leap covers being reduced, is much more forgiving and enjoyable.
Also, I did not say that just because something is harder that it's necessarily more tactical, but I think you'd agree most games would be supremely boring if they didn't require some amount of technical skill.
<!--quoteo(post=1861901:date=Jul 20 2011, 09:06 AM:name=Rico5559)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rico5559 @ Jul 20 2011, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, taking away automatic skulk wall walk is the most counter-intuitive idea regarding the skulk's movement. This is only outdone by switching how you control wall walk while leaping, by deciding how long to hold down a button? Not sure how large your keyboards are, but anyone whos been playing computer games for over a year or so should automatically have thumb:spacebar pointer finger:d middle finger:w ring finger:a pinky:shift/ctrl syndrome. Now imagine you're holding down shiftbar to sit above a doorway waiting on a marine and you realize its a hive push, typing that to your teammates while holding down shift to make sure you don't fall into the line of fire?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess we should be able to Toggle PrimaryFire then as well, so that we can all have a chat while we're in combat :P
I don't know about you, I'd much rather be inconvenienced typing than maneuvering. Competitive players are going to be using mics anyways, and while I understand the game needs to be accessible, I really don't see this as a deal-breaking issue: Players can learn to find a safe-spot, or use the sayings menu. I do, however, respect your right to your own opinion/preference.
I'm 24. I've played video games since I was 7. Can type about 90 words/minute. I CAN press it, but I've never been comfortable using Ctrl at any length. It's the most awkward button press (of those in your immediate finger range) for me, and I'd say my hands are pretty average sized.
Hahaha, yeah I know. I didn't write 50 lines of code JUST to avoid re-binding a button.
I said the same thing and it seemed no one cared =/
Skulks are designed to be non-linear in nature, and making them linear base-line but able to go un-linear doesn't make sense.
For those who don't got a clue what I'm saying, Linear in terms of movement is straight, back, left, and right on a single plane.
According to whom/what? NS1?
Oh come on Kuban, you are really going to dispute that? You should run for a Republican congress seat.
Unfortunately that joke/stab/implication is lost on me because I don't follow politics, but I haven't started disputing anything yet, just asking where he's getting that information from. I'd honestly like to know where the design of the Skulk is explicated, and where it says that the Skulk was designed to have "non-linear movement".
EDIT: I'm aware the Aliens are intended to have Skill-based Movement, but this does not necessarily imply that they need the current "non-linear movement". That's just one solution, I'm merely suggesting another.
If it was from NS1, I would argue that a lot has change since NS1 and as such we shouldn't go throwing out ideas just because they don't nod to the classic.
If there's a document, blog post, video, or any sort of content post-NS2 that even INFERS that the Skulk is, by design, <b>dependent</b> on non-linear movement I'm interested in seeing it.
As it stands, this entire game is subject to change, so I don't ever see "That's not the way it is/was intended" as a valid argument. What's so wrong with trying something new, other than frightening the Vets that are so hopelessly inured to NS1?
It's just easier to have one unstick button that you use consistently. Crouch is the most logical choice because skulks can't crouch; and crouch is so important that it is in a position where it is super-easy to press(as an ESDF player, that's Z and my pinky is just resting there 99% of the time while I'm playing).
What you do to get to a target is not just leap straight forward. You want to go at an angel to the side. If you do this, you can hold right-click, look at a wall, and before you hit it, look at the target, (while still holding right-click), and you will go at them. As a marine this is a very hard thing to hit because you move so fast while you leap. You in essences, make a V shape like this:
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->Marine<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->| Wall<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.......<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Now if this was removed, this move would be made impossible and would make the skulk less dangerous because you wouldn't stick to the wall, therefor you would fall to the ground and lose all your speed.
Do they not teach critical reading in elementary school anymore? In my suggestion, if you release the mouse when leaping you will become sticky again. Your bounce move would be possible simply by double-tapping the right mouse button instead of holding it.
I also like to leap to wall which is sticky and leap off of it. Another game functionality which cannot be nerfed.
If you tick the box the skulk sticks to walls while leaping unless you press a button (ctrl).
If you untick the box the skulk does not stick to walls while leaping unless you press a button.
What you do to get to a target is not just leap straight forward. You want to go at an angel to the side. If you do this, you can hold right-click, look at a wall, and before you hit it, look at the target, (while still holding right-click), and you will go at them. As a marine this is a very hard thing to hit because you move so fast while you leap. You in essences, make a V shape like this:
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->Marine<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->\<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->| Wall<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->............<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->..........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->........<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->/<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#141414--><span style="color:#141414"><!--/coloro-->.......<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->|<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Now if this was removed, this move would be made impossible and would make the skulk less dangerous because you wouldn't stick to the wall, therefor you would fall to the ground and lose all your speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not suggesting you remove the functionality, he's proposing giving players more complete control by disabling wall-walk until you've released the Leap button (RMB). In other words, if you were to just tap Leap (as opposed to holding it down), you'd be able to stick to something immediately, but if you held it down it would be as if you were holding Crouch.
A straightforward, and good idea. Removes the need to hold two buttons in many situations.