Distress Beacon input

KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
In NS1 it only allowed you to spawn your marines at the marine main base, no matter if you relocated or not.

Since we now got fixed tech points, i would like to see a bit more flexibility - if marines invest in having a 2nd+ commandstation or relocate, you should be able to choose where to beacon. (i guess it uses player spawn points so mappers would need to add them for every techpoint to avoid getting stuck.)


To choose at which point you want to beacon you either have to add the beacon button to every commandstation, or some kind of 2click thing where you click beacon on the obs and then on the commandstation you want, or a popup list with the techpoints locations.


Any ideas? - do you think it would be too powerfull if you were able to forward beacon? On the other hand it would cost some extra res for a commandstation, and makes you vulnerable at other bases if you use it offensivly at a forward base. (cooldown)

Comments

  • King CowKing Cow Join Date: 2011-07-28 Member: 112663Members
    I like the idea but it does make me wonder how usefull this ability will be. I mean aliens already have a extremely hard time attacking the marine base past mid game. (I assume this ability will be later game) I can not think of one time as marine commander when I would have needed this ability. Being able to relocate it to another command station would make it more flexible (and give a reason to make a 2nd cc) But used with sentry guns it will be even harder than it already is for aliens to retake parts of the map secured with guns. Now they will have guns to take down and the whole marine team spawning into the room at will........

    Maybe I was dreaming but I thought i read the ability will transport everyone to a observatory?
  • assbdaassbda Join Date: 2011-05-02 Member: 96737Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1866601:date=Aug 5 2011, 11:11 PM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 5 2011, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe I was dreaming but I thought i read the ability will transport everyone to a observatory?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    if that was the case there would no longer be a need for ninja phase gates. Its now ninja observatory's!~

    I think every command station should have access to the beacon(if an observatory is up). So to use the beacon it would cost energy from the observatory and have a global cool down of some time.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    Dunno if it will tranport ppl to the observatory again (a bugged prototype of this was already ingame some time ago)

    It just seems too powerfull if you can beacon to every obs on the map... kinda a replacing of the phasegates. (dont foget it revives all dead players and ports them at the location too)
  • King CowKing Cow Join Date: 2011-07-28 Member: 112663Members
    AH maybe thats where I read about it. If its overpowerd or not depends on the cost it requires to use i guess. But yes it probably would be. I do not think it should be like that, just that I think I read something along those lines.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Keeping with the old beacon theme it wasnt as over powered as you all would believe. It was available as soon as the obs was built. It had great benefit but also pulled every marine to home base no matter what and a lot of times to disaster. 2 skulks often times rushed marine start forcing a beacon and the rest of the team cleaned up a forward location (PG or pseudo base) while the marines tried to regroup. Turrets just werent used unless as an early warning system on public servers with 20+ people.

    What Koruyo is getting at is clever and i didnt think in terms of a new game. Sure the old beacon was cool but there could be more to it. I would like to see the marines spawn around where ever the comm station is. So if you are at a tech point and use beacon they warp to there (having an obs of course) and making it Pres based would be nice for something else to spend that res on.

    Or just make it so the main commander has access to the beacon and can choose which base to deploy the troops.
  • King CowKing Cow Join Date: 2011-07-28 Member: 112663Members
    I did not play ns1 so not sure if it had this in the past but it needs a decent cool down.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    If the old implementation comes back that teleported you to the obs, and the obs needed energy to build, i can see the following interesting strategy:

    build obs in base

    build a obs near a hive. Wait for energy for beacon to fill up (i assume that the obs wont have enough energy from start).

    beacon everybody to hive and try to take it down

    as soon as needed (everybdoy dead, or aliens make a counterattack), beacon everybody back to base



    Now this strategy is hard to do i think. Because you would have to keep that hidden obs for long enough to have enough energy. So i think that would counter all abuses of that, just make it so that from the time a obs has been built, until the beacon on it can be used is high enough.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    It had no Cd, but energy costs?

    Beacon had negative sides too, all marines are in the base => every outpost is empty for some time...
  • assbdaassbda Join Date: 2011-05-02 Member: 96737Members
    edited August 2011
    Nah it didnt have a cooldown in ns1, it just cost 5 res and used 25 energy i think? something along that.
    Most of my games in ns1 the commander only used it to gather up his marines for a mass assault most of the time, supplying them with heavy armor and weps.
    The minority of beacons was when a onos would enter marine base while players were assaulting a hive, kinda became a real race against time..was pretty cool

    My vote is for a cooldown tho since it is rts based. therefor such dramatic actions should have severe consequences (other than every marine being warped home)
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    IF it gets a cd, put it into the cc - since the obs is the weakest building... (the old counter was to kill the obs)
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    No cooldown is needed. Just base it off Pres. This isnt game breaking and wouldnt be used all the time.

    Also, the beacon never sent the marines TOO the obs. They were sent to Marine Start (whether there was a base there or not). An obs could be built anywhere to help get an emergency beacon off if marine start or base was getting over run.

    You still want it in the obs. That is the point that it dies fast. It is a high priority target the aliens need to down. Obs > Ip > Arms Lab. I always liked taking down the Advanced Armory hehe but im evil.
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    edited August 2011
    A obs should only allow you to beacon into the location closest to its current location that contains a CC. If I have an obs in crevice and have a cc in heliport, marine start and surface access, using that obs beacon will spawn me into heliport. This can create a system on strategicly placed obs around that map which will in turn also remove any cloaked structures of enemies on the alien side.

    Obs rushing hives sounds insanely unfair. A group of 4+ marines can take down a hive with lmgs quicker than any alien class can travel back to the hive, let alone an entire team of them with possible shotguns. Thats what phase gates are for. Obs should not be used as a means of navigating the map, thats not its purpose.

    lastly, I do believe the obs needs a cool down feature for beacon. It should still be cheap to beacon, but it should require more time between uses. It shouldnt be long, but it should be long enough to make it not an abusable option. Beacon wasvused incorrectly in pubs in ns1 a lot.
  • King CowKing Cow Join Date: 2011-07-28 Member: 112663Members
    Fair enouth but it would really limmit its use vizionz. I can only see it being usefull if you were to say rush a cc in surface access (only seen that done once and to do it the commander skipped all upgrades and weapon unlocks) anyway then have the Obs/beacon in the marine start to defend that while your team is semi camped in surface access. But it does not sound like a great strategy at all. Prehaps beacon would be more usefull if sentry guns get nurfed... I fear that day......
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1866637:date=Aug 5 2011, 08:51 AM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 5 2011, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fair enouth but it would really limmit its use vizionz. I can only see it being usefull if you were to say rush a cc in surface access (only seen that done once and to do it the commander skipped all upgrades and weapon unlocks) anyway then have the Obs/beacon in the marine start to defend that while your team is semi camped in surface access. But it does not sound like a great strategy at all. Prehaps beacon would be more usefull if sentry guns get nurfed... I fear that day......<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Another option could be a large prompt on the screen when activating the beacon. If you command station count is greater than 1, than your cc locations are presented large in the middle of the screen for a quick select. Other wise you beacon to the default single cc location.
  • ZRockZRock Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11910Members, Constellation
    Just have the beacon summon the marines to whichever CC invokes the beacon
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    I think the new beacon is perfect. It can be used for offense or defense. Still uses the same pro and con as the original.

    You ninja build an obs outside a hive, and have the entire team spawn there to fight while your base is empty. And observatories have low health.

    And if your base is near death you can quickly recall your troops to the base while risking the loss of territory.

    Would work better if the armor/weapons were tied to the armslab like ns1.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I must have missed something. What is this about a new beacon being able to "spawn" marines at the obs location? Very unfair for aliens imo and really not needed. This would be game breaking and promote rambos.
  • AssassinY2KAssassinY2K Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7931Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    If you relocate from marine start to heliport for example, build a beacon in heliport and use its distress beacon it could be the location of the respawn
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I think it should center around tech points or Command Stations. Obs should just be for revealing map/stealth and beacons.
  • RebellionEliteRebellionElite Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112530Members
    Well we need to do something about the Aliens winning streak right now, if it does not pan out in this build then it will be changed in the next one. Its a Alpha/Beta, things need to be tried to see if they work.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Move distress beacon to CS, problem solved. It should be an emergency measure available to the comm from the beginning of the game. Using it as a mobility system (ninja obs) was made obsolete when pgs were reintroduced.
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I'd really like to see the aliens have a similar ability, much like as was done in the prototype mod. The alien comm should be able to place eggs down for a cost (and hive energy). This allows for forward spawning points as well as a last-ditch plan to get your team to spawn in when marines are in your hive killing all the eggs. Unlike the prototype mod, this would have to be tied to hive energy as well so you couldn't do it indefinitely if you had a lot of team res, which is common for aliens late in the game.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited August 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1866708:date=Aug 5 2011, 11:32 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 5 2011, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Move distress beacon to CS, problem solved. It should be an emergency measure available to the comm from the beginning of the game. Using it as a mobility system (ninja obs) was made obsolete when pgs were reintroduced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Beacon being placed in the obs gives the structure value. No reason to combined it with the CS. Ninja Obs refer to when your obs in base is destroyed and a marine in the field somewhere builds one allowing the comm to use beacon to respawn everyone. Last ditch effort on the part of the marines. It works WITH pgs. It is fine as is with Beacon tied to the obs.

    <!--quoteo(post=1866710:date=Aug 5 2011, 11:34 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 5 2011, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd really like to see the aliens have a similar ability, much like as was done in the prototype mod. The alien comm should be able to place eggs down for a cost (and hive energy). This allows for forward spawning points as well as a last-ditch plan to get your team to spawn in when marines are in your hive killing all the eggs. Unlike the prototype mod, this would have to be tied to hive energy as well so you couldn't do it indefinitely if you had a lot of team res, which is common for aliens late in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Aliens will have movement chambers (not sure what they are calling them) when clicked on (use key, like opening a door) you get warped to a hive or if a hive is taking damage, that hive specifically. This was a big advantage in Friendly Fire instances. Aliens would hit the hive on purpose to be able to warp where they chose (it was later implemented you could just press "use" on a hive for the same effect FF or not.) You are right though. Aliens do not have a mass spawn ability but spawn from multiple hives. The ability to choose which hive to spawn at might be a solution (granted it doesnt help early game shotgun rushes with a single hive). A mass spawn for aliens would be nice but i would really like to see something else than a carbon copy of beacon.
  • HakujinHakujin Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16157Members, Constellation
    What about having the beacon transport all marines to the location of the CC of the comm who initiated the beacon? This is flexible, scalable, and requires no submenus, etc. It also prevents abuse from have beacon points being "too flexible"
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1866742:date=Aug 5 2011, 02:20 PM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Aug 5 2011, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about having the beacon transport all marines to the location of the CC of the comm who initiated the beacon? This is flexible, scalable, and requires no submenus, etc. It also prevents abuse from have beacon points being "too flexible"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree with this first and foremost. I suggested it also but it was lost in my babblings.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1866731:date=Aug 5 2011, 12:27 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Aug 5 2011, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866731"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beacon being placed in the obs gives the structure value. No reason to combined it with the CS. Ninja Obs refer to when your obs in base is destroyed and a marine in the field somewhere builds one allowing the comm to use beacon to respawn everyone. Last ditch effort on the part of the marines. It works WITH pgs. It is fine as is with Beacon tied to the obs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Two things
    1. This logic is backwards. You shouldn't give a structure an ability to make the structure useful, but add (or in this case remove) a structure whose functionally can be accomplished in another way (i.e. beacon on CS). I'd actually be happy if all of the obs tech (beacon, scan, phasegate tech) we're moved to other structures to reduce unnecessary complexity on the marine side.

    2. If that's too much for, only moving beacon to the CS wouldn't make the obs obsolete. Scan and phasegate tech still give the obs a very valuable role. If UWE decides to include some type of motion tracking, the obs would likely be the best place to put it.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1866770:date=Aug 5 2011, 03:50 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 5 2011, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Two things
    1. This logic is backwards. You shouldn't give a structure an ability to make the structure useful, but add (or in this case remove) a structure whose functionally can be accomplished in another way (i.e. beacon on CS). I'd actually be happy if all of the obs tech (beacon, scan, phasegate tech) we're moved to other structures to reduce unnecessary complexity on the marine side.

    2. If that's too much for, only moving beacon to the CS wouldn't make the obs obsolete. Scan and phasegate tech still give the obs a very valuable role. If UWE decides to include some type of motion tracking, the obs would likely be the best place to put it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Problem is i disagree with #1. But on to #2. Problem is i have played NS1 and am stuck in my ways. The obs was another primary target aliens would have to go for. This is the alien thinking process when attacking a marine base:

    Kill?
    IP: Quick win but all the other marines are out there and they can beacon
    CC: not going to happen quickly
    Armory (advanced): Kill marine upper tech such as shotguns, flamethrowers, and GLs till they have enough res to not only build another armory but upgrade it.
    Arms Lab: No more weapons or armor upgrades. Easy kills.
    Obs: Beacon

    It adds to the "what should i kill first". If there were no reason to kill the obs because let's face it, motion tracking isnt that powerful to require you to take it out first and pg research can be reversed, it would be one step closer to the IP going down. It required aliens to kill the obs first then the IP. Munch on the IP all you want but if it went down having the entire marine team spawn on you (some with weapons) sucked. (not to mention the ninja obs).

    I love NS1 and it is tough for me too see good in change, but this is one thing i would never want to see changed period.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1866771:date=Aug 5 2011, 03:02 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Aug 5 2011, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem is i disagree with #1. But on to #2. Problem is i have played NS1 and am stuck in my ways. The obs was another primary target aliens would have to go for. This is the alien thinking process when attacking a marine base:

    Kill?
    IP: Quick win but all the other marines are out there and they can beacon
    CC: not going to happen quickly
    Armory (advanced): Kill marine upper tech such as shotguns, flamethrowers, and GLs till they have enough res to not only build another armory but upgrade it.
    Arms Lab: No more weapons or armor upgrades. Easy kills.
    Obs: Beacon

    It adds to the "what should i kill first". If there were no reason to kill the obs because let's face it, motion tracking isnt that powerful to require you to take it out first and pg research can be reversed, it would be one step closer to the IP going down. It required aliens to kill the obs first then the IP. Munch on the IP all you want but if it went down having the entire marine team spawn on you (some with weapons) sucked. (not to mention the ninja obs).

    I love NS1 and it is tough for me too see good in change, but this is one thing i would never want to see changed period.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I understand the sentiment, but I don't think this is a valid method of game design. NS1 was a great game and someone is free to make a NS1 mod on the spark engine that I'll gladly play. However, NS2 will never be NS1. In fact, I think UWE has the potential to make NS2 better than NS1, but only if they approach NS2 as a related, but different, game.

    WRT to your specific example, what if UWE made PG operations depend on the obs being built? That way, if you killed an obs, you'd take down the entire marine PG network. I'd say that's a valuable reason to kill the obs. Ironically, right now the IP is the most valuable structure to take down because a) its so easy to kill and b) it ends the game (no spawn + marines die quickly = gg).
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    There should be a 2 or 3 second delay, and marines should get a pop up warning 'distress beacon activated by commander, prepare for teliportation to [location selected by commander]
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1866799:date=Aug 5 2011, 05:56 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 5 2011, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand the sentiment, but I don't think this is a valid method of game design. NS1 was a great game and someone is free to make a NS1 mod on the spark engine that I'll gladly play. However, NS2 will never be NS1. In fact, I think UWE has the potential to make NS2 better than NS1, but only if they approach NS2 as a related, but different, game.

    WRT to your specific example, what if UWE made PG operations depend on the obs being built? That way, if you killed an obs, you'd take down the entire marine PG network. I'd say that's a valuable reason to kill the obs. Ironically, right now the IP is the most valuable structure to take down because a) its so easy to kill and b) it ends the game (no spawn + marines die quickly = gg).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I hear what you are saying but i prefer to think they are taking NS1, cutting out the bad, adding new, but keeping the overall structure the same and trying to mimick their great success. If the game strays too much i wont play NS2 and ill stick with as you say a NS1 in spark mod. Once the beacon is in game the obs will be #1 on the list. Putting it in a structure that is meant to last the entire game would be an unfair spot to place it and would force them to restrict it's use big time. (i hate restriction when i believe they are not needed)

    <!--quoteo(post=1866800:date=Aug 5 2011, 06:01 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Aug 5 2011, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a 2 or 3 second delay, and marines should get a pop up warning 'distress beacon activated by commander, prepare for teliportation to [location selected by commander]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There always was without the on screen warning. The siren :P
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