Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
Yeah, my FPS will tank to about 10 on EPIC. While it should stay above 15 and around 20-30... Like on Heidis Ziegenfarm 1 (HBZ) with the same amount of players and also during endgame (lots of stuff on the map by both teams)
I have a more powerful machine so i can notice the effect more, its definitely there, and it happend on anagram #2 and the server emptied out because of this very bug.
i love this new build balance is prity good not too much to complain about now other than saying you can build on the roof of tram in marine start so you can get out of the map using phase gates needs to be fixed bug
I don't know if it has something to do with the map, but the FPS is dropping to insane numbers on the new build. I am running a monster of a computer and dropping down to 5FPS in some situations. This has nothing to do with ammo spam/health spam. It's most noticeable when you are a commander and you try to view the resource point in data care. Your FPS drops drastically.
This is just one of the many areas that players need to stay away from in this build. <ul><li>I love the Lerk, however the new spore cloud is a little silly. In order to effectively use spores, the cloud has to be at eye level. Really? If someone is laying down and farts, I can still smell it and cough if I am standing up. Just saying...</li><li>Fade has improved for the better, I really enjoy it. I still think the Fade should obtain damage while blinking though.</li><li>Flatline sound... Is it really necessary to hear it everytime someone dies on the Marines?</li><li>I really enjoy the new sounds for the Kharaa.</li><li>The Gorge is perfect in terms of class. However, the is still lacking another structure or feature to really give him his unique role on the Kharaa.</li><li>Commander placement is sooooooooooo much better. Great work! </li><li>MACs are still getting lost in nothingness in the match and glitching to locations across the entire map in a second</li><li>The new RoboFactory model is pretty sick, nice work.</li><li><i>to be continued...</i></li></ul>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Gorge will now rotate up and down while belly sliding according to the angle of the ground<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hands down most important change. The game is done. Ship it.
Amazing patch, love the new lerk gas and movement. Visuals for dropping gas and gas spreading and dissipating in a room would be nice, maybe add a very faint glow, also gas should spawn below the lerk more so it doesn't blind itself. Also the more gas accumulates in one area, the further out it should spread; thicker gas causing full damage while gas that is dissipating causes less damage. Also make the gas transparent, losing transperency as the gas cloud clears up and spreads thinner. Gas should also thin out gradually. The gas cloud is very concentrated, maybe add some dripping fluids trailing from lerk and spore cloud for a short period of time as it releases gas. The attack animation of gas being released from the lerk pov needs to look better. Like thick smoke billowing out that changes direction as if to take into account air flow and speed of flight. Also spreading gas that deals less damage as it dissipates and covers larger area but doing less damage will give lerks more effectiveness towards jetpackers when they are implemented. This would add visual effects that fit the gas spreading concept. Like this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtWkTS4TyYY&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtWkTS4TyYY...feature=related</a>
All the new sounds are great! The skulk and marine movement animations could be more fluid, maybe add in animation for strafing, running/walking and jumping diagonally and sideways. Also, foot placement and travelling speed should match the animation of the feet, no gliding. The current movement makes me think of action figures, though its been getting much better.
The cloaked particle effects could leave a particle trail for visual purposes, not affecting current gameplay. I think gorges should be able to projectile a building placement. Like choose a location on the wall, ceiling or floor with the hydra/cyst placement preview model then spit an egg-like alien biomass that sticks onto the surface and starts growing into a hydra or cyst, which would spread veins of dynamic infestation. It would also be cool if the gorge's bile bomb, hydra placement projectiles and cyst placement projectiles could behave like the bio rifle from UT3 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PujXTZ5OxJI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PujXTZ5OxJI</a>
frames per sec could use work. I can't wait for trailing fire that travels into vents. But the flamethrower burning time needs to be nerfed. Trailing fire that reacts to air movement for aliens that are on fire ftw.
This is an awesome build with tons of great new features and fixes!! Keep up the awesome work. dynamic infestation want =]
Love playing this game, have lot of fun. Good looking graphics, especially animation and shadows. I haven't got much or any fps drop compared to last versions. Some weird fps drops on client and server side are very rare but they do exist.
But here are few things I would like to fix/change/add:
-Able to choose which hive to spawn. -Alien vision should show shadows (maybe darker yellow or something). -While cloaked alien vision looks messy(why not to use same yellow vision?). -Alien vision doesn't show bilebombs, spikes, spore etc. -Flamethrowers flame goes through things and the flames never bend like they suppose to, they are always straight which looks weird and it's too easy to use it because of that. -GL spam... feels like playing quake, not good. 1-2 GL max per marine team, slower rate of fire or something could fix this. It should be more tactical. -Sentries are possible to build inside walls and railings, impossible to destroy them with melee weapons. -Black screen and not able to spawn as alien happens. -Upper play button doesn't work at the server list menu. Esc key should work as return in menus. -Performance, like it at the beginning but it drops down when time goes by. Especially when attacking there is big fps drop and everything goes laggy. -Teams are well balanced now... actually too balanced so the games takes hours now, it's boring. This game need Onos and Heavy armor badly. -Mines and laser mines for marines.
I would be very happy if at least all but two last ones would be fixed soon. Cheers.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The new Lerk flight model is pretty good, but the fart spores (who in their right mind thought this was a good idea?) and rapid-fire spikes will be useless when the game is optimized for fps and it's possible to aim again.
I have to admit, as fun as it is to use(really quite fun, especially making a wall of it at a door), the lerk spore trail is nice as a smoke screen but not so much an attack. Great for escapes, though greater for getting shot up when using it as an attack, general FPS increases will likely impact the usefulness further.
Though you did want swooping from the lerk and spore trail sure achieved this.
I'm unimpressed by the lerk. First, the spikes, they're hitscan, which is great, but the damage is awful still. In a previous game I had snuck into marine start and unloaded into a marine from behind and it took quite a while for him to die. Maybe its a matter of armor upgrades still coming but lerks never getting damage upgrades as they don't do melee damage.
Second, their range is awful. In said game I also attempted to take out the marine power but noticed no hit indicators from the ventilation to MS hallway around the corner. Then I realized it was because the power node was actually out of range from the lerk at the corner, which seems insane.
In a game full of short corridors and hallways I just can't see a reason why any gun/gun like object would fail to reach the end of any of them with obvious exceptions for the flame thrower.
Finally, the crop dusting is really fun, it's also been pretty good at forcing marines to move out of it. Unfortunately what it hasn't done well is kill anyone. I find myself making runs through corridors and hallways to gas people but the end is typically nothing at all, they cough, they get out of the cloud and not much else.
When I first heard about the crop dusting idea I was under the impression you'd always be shedding spores so you'd go against marines like a dive bomber, swooping in, spraying spikes into them, then killing them off as you swoop by with a cloud of spores. Right now its mostly just an irritation, more dangerous for its blocked vision when supported by other aliens than for its actual damage.
But maybe that's what they intended.
I like swooping with the lerk, but frankly his weapons just aren't up to par, when you're flying at an enemy who can one shot you with a shotgun, you need to be confident that you'll be able to deal serious damage on the way in with the right angle of attack. Right now it seems a lot more like those old bi-planes you saw attacking king kong in the movies. Lots of zooming around and not much else, with the occasional lerk being swatted out of the sky by a marine.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Tram is more unplayable than ever now. When I load the map, it spams errors in the console about running out of video memory, then half the entities on the map don't draw. FPS is around 10 on Tram vs 60 on Summit.
I didn't notice any fps difference, tickrates gets bad (5-10) when the game progress however, but that's not new. Maybe it's hardware specific ? Or os.
So first 185 match done and i can say i love the new lerk, very cool. Its hard not get hit by Grenades but its very nice to fly and shoot gas. Finaly the spikes are working well. But the "shotgun" spikes are a bit weird, feels like it did just double damage but take tripple of energy. Anyway better then the sniper lerk.
Concerning the sounds, it seems a bit overloaded now. Not in a bad way, but it's really obnoxious to hear these synthetic sounds (really loud too) when a teammate kills something way across the map.
I experimented a bit flying above a marine (in crossroad), dodging left-and right and spiking him. The result is like 30-60 seconds fights, the marine can barely hit you, and it also quite hard to hit him. Don't know if it's lag, bad aim or hit registration.
<!--quoteo(post=1871725:date=Aug 28 2011, 03:06 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Aug 28 2011, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I experimented a bit flying above a marine (in crossroad), dodging left-and right and spiking him. The result is like 30-60 seconds fights, the marine can barely hit you, and it also quite hard to hit him. Don't know if it's lag, bad aim or hit registration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Probably all 3.
FPS now stays at around 10 (was 30+) @ 1920x1080. Now nearly unplayable. Incoming/outgoing rates were staying above 15, usually around 20, the whole time. Also had black screen issue numerous times.
Also crashed toward the end of the one good game I had. That said, the lerk was kinda fun, although I find it lame that a few bullets hitting a lerk seems to their forward momentum in flight (usually right next to the marine), making them sitting ducks (er lerks). This makes the new cropduster ability useless against a marine that can aim.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second, their range is awful. In said game I also attempted to take out the marine power node but noticed no hit indicators from the ventilation to MS hallway around the corner. Then I realized it was because the power node was actually out of range from the lerk at the corner, which seems insane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes same thing happened to me. I was in the corner of the hallway avoiding the nade spam and neither the primary hitscan or the altfire spikes were registering. Now this to me was not a large distance. I moved a few steps closer and the hits started registering but naturally I ripped to shreds by nades and turret spam.
This needs to be addressed by next patch as it is clearly one of the factors causing the Build 185 stalemates.
<!--quoteo(post=1871750:date=Aug 28 2011, 11:50 PM:name=Gorge_Lucas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorge_Lucas @ Aug 28 2011, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes same thing happened to me. I was in the corner of the hallway avoiding the nade spam and neither the primary hitscan or the altfire spikes were registering. Now this to me was not a large distance. I moved a few steps closer and the hits started registering but naturally I ripped to shreds by nades and turret spam.
This needs to be addressed by next patch as it is clearly one of the factors causing the Build 185 stalemates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same thing here. If I sit just to the right of the stairs in DC facing the exit from Vent I can't hit marines unless I leave cover and get shredded apart by gunfire.
I don't think there should be a range for hitscan weapons. It's really unintuitive for the spikes to just stop in mid-air. I think having a damage drop-off (i.e. damage decreases the further away the target is) would be better if you want to limit range. Either that or just increase the spread so that after a certain distance the spikes just go everywhere and it's impossible to hit anything with them.
EDIT: Played a bit of the current build and just wanted to post my opinion. The low FPS just makes it impossible to aim. Skulks were just destroying our team easily and pushing us right back into the base. I hope FPS improves soon as it's a lot less fun to play. It's hard to judge the balance of anything else because the performance is so poor.
Is there some reasoning why spikes have to be hitscan and not for example similar to the medic ranged weapons in TF2?
I really appreciated how NS1 had very few moments where you actually fought hitscan vs hitscan. With fast projectiles instead of hitscan lerks could do a little trickery with corners and marines could still do slight bits of dodging. All in all it would play out a lot less like a traditional gun vs gun FPS at that point.
The problem wasn't that they were projectiles, the problem was that they were <b>bad</b> projectiles with limp ranges and poor damage. If lerks are supposed to be strafing people then their damage needs to be quite high to be effective on the attack, a lerk can't be forced to stop and land to spike you to death. Right now the only place I find swooping viable is with spore cloud, and even then it's doesn't really kill people unless they're already fighting something (in which case I get the last hit) or they're AFK. Lerks still need an actual defined role. By their spores you might think they're area denial, but where does that leave the spikes.
<!--quoteo(post=1871861:date=Aug 29 2011, 04:21 PM:name=Yannic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yannic @ Aug 29 2011, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just loaded up 185 and it says there are 0 servers. I am in the UK on a 50Mb Virgin Media cable connection.
Any advice
Keyword: Natural selection 2 build 185 0 no servers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go to for example options menu and then come back to the server list menu. Sometimes that helps. If that doesn't help restart the game. That fixes the problem for me at last.
<!--quoteo(post=1871865:date=Aug 29 2011, 09:30 AM:name=fUncie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fUncie @ Aug 29 2011, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go to for example options menu and then come back to the server list menu. Sometimes that helps. If that doesn't help restart the game. That fixes the problem for me at last.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> or create a local game, exit, go to server list. Might also work.
<!--quoteo(post=1871472:date=Aug 27 2011, 04:27 AM:name=Melatonin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melatonin @ Aug 27 2011, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you know I love you, but...
whatever it is down to, there is something fundamentally not finished with the combat in the game. the thing is, it really makes me rage. It doesn't matter that I was outclassed, it doesn't matter that I made a poor tactical decision and that is why I lost my fade, it <b>feels</b> like the engine let me down.
...
please, please, <b>please </b>focus first of all on this most crucial part of the experience. I know its probably more esoteric, and harder to effect than a new unit, or gameplay element, but ultimately it doesn't matter that a new class was added or tweaked for balance when the world that class lives in feels sluggish and consequently 'unfair'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Melatonin,
You're right. Our main focus is getting the overall combat "feel" right. This is a massive task. It encompasses server performance, client performance, networking efficiency, networking structure, prediction, lag-compensation, weapon feel, feedback and game balance.
So the short answer is - we're on top of this but it's not going to get better overnight. If you're super-frustrated, I won't be offended if you took a break for a bit, knowing you'll be back when everything is working better. All I can say is that the nature of the beta and it's just going to take some more time!
Comments
This is just one of the many areas that players need to stay away from in this build.
<ul><li>I love the Lerk, however the new spore cloud is a little silly. In order to effectively use spores, the cloud has to be at eye level. Really? If someone is laying down and farts, I can still smell it and cough if I am standing up. Just saying...</li><li>Fade has improved for the better, I really enjoy it. I still think the Fade should obtain damage while blinking though.</li><li>Flatline sound... Is it really necessary to hear it everytime someone dies on the Marines?</li><li>I really enjoy the new sounds for the Kharaa.</li><li>The Gorge is perfect in terms of class. However, the is still lacking another structure or feature to really give him his unique role on the Kharaa.</li><li>Commander placement is sooooooooooo much better. Great work! </li><li>MACs are still getting lost in nothingness in the match and glitching to locations across the entire map in a second</li><li>The new RoboFactory model is pretty sick, nice work.</li><li><i>to be continued...</i></li></ul>
Hands down most important change. The game is done. Ship it.
Visuals for dropping gas and gas spreading and dissipating in a room would be nice, maybe add a very faint glow, also gas should spawn below the lerk more so it doesn't blind itself. Also the more gas accumulates in one area, the further out it should spread; thicker gas causing full damage while gas that is dissipating causes less damage. Also make the gas transparent, losing transperency as the gas cloud clears up and spreads thinner. Gas should also thin out gradually. The gas cloud is very concentrated, maybe add some dripping fluids trailing from lerk and spore cloud for a short period of time as it releases gas. The attack animation of gas being released from the lerk pov needs to look better. Like thick smoke billowing out that changes direction as if to take into account air flow and speed of flight. Also spreading gas that deals less damage as it dissipates and covers larger area but doing less damage will give lerks more effectiveness towards jetpackers when they are implemented. This would add visual effects that fit the gas spreading concept. Like this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtWkTS4TyYY&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtWkTS4TyYY...feature=related</a>
All the new sounds are great!
The skulk and marine movement animations could be more fluid, maybe add in animation for strafing, running/walking and jumping diagonally and sideways. Also, foot placement and travelling speed should match the animation of the feet, no gliding. The current movement makes me think of action figures, though its been getting much better.
The cloaked particle effects could leave a particle trail for visual purposes, not affecting current gameplay.
I think gorges should be able to projectile a building placement. Like choose a location on the wall, ceiling or floor with the hydra/cyst placement preview model then spit an egg-like alien biomass that sticks onto the surface and starts growing into a hydra or cyst, which would spread veins of dynamic infestation. It would also be cool if the gorge's bile bomb, hydra placement projectiles and cyst placement projectiles could behave like the bio rifle from UT3 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PujXTZ5OxJI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PujXTZ5OxJI</a>
frames per sec could use work. I can't wait for trailing fire that travels into vents. But the flamethrower burning time needs to be nerfed. Trailing fire that reacts to air movement for aliens that are on fire ftw.
This is an awesome build with tons of great new features and fixes!! Keep up the awesome work.
dynamic infestation want =]
"...Added lerk trail sporesHOLY######F*CKINGEPICBRO"
=)
But here are few things I would like to fix/change/add:
-Able to choose which hive to spawn.
-Alien vision should show shadows (maybe darker yellow or something).
-While cloaked alien vision looks messy(why not to use same yellow vision?).
-Alien vision doesn't show bilebombs, spikes, spore etc.
-Flamethrowers flame goes through things and the flames never bend like they suppose to, they are always straight which looks weird and it's too easy to use it because of that.
-GL spam... feels like playing quake, not good. 1-2 GL max per marine team, slower rate of fire or something could fix this. It should be more tactical.
-Sentries are possible to build inside walls and railings, impossible to destroy them with melee weapons.
-Black screen and not able to spawn as alien happens.
-Upper play button doesn't work at the server list menu. Esc key should work as return in menus.
-Performance, like it at the beginning but it drops down when time goes by. Especially when attacking there is big fps drop and everything goes laggy.
-Teams are well balanced now... actually too balanced so the games takes hours now, it's boring. This game need Onos and Heavy armor badly.
-Mines and laser mines for marines.
I would be very happy if at least all but two last ones would be fixed soon. Cheers.
Great for escapes, though greater for getting shot up when using it as an attack, general FPS increases will likely impact the usefulness further.
Though you did want swooping from the lerk and spore trail sure achieved this.
Second, their range is awful. In said game I also attempted to take out the marine power but noticed no hit indicators from the ventilation to MS hallway around the corner. Then I realized it was because the power node was actually out of range from the lerk at the corner, which seems insane.
In a game full of short corridors and hallways I just can't see a reason why any gun/gun like object would fail to reach the end of any of them with obvious exceptions for the flame thrower.
Finally, the crop dusting is really fun, it's also been pretty good at forcing marines to move out of it. Unfortunately what it hasn't done well is kill anyone. I find myself making runs through corridors and hallways to gas people but the end is typically nothing at all, they cough, they get out of the cloud and not much else.
When I first heard about the crop dusting idea I was under the impression you'd always be shedding spores so you'd go against marines like a dive bomber, swooping in, spraying spikes into them, then killing them off as you swoop by with a cloud of spores. Right now its mostly just an irritation, more dangerous for its blocked vision when supported by other aliens than for its actual damage.
But maybe that's what they intended.
I like swooping with the lerk, but frankly his weapons just aren't up to par, when you're flying at an enemy who can one shot you with a shotgun, you need to be confident that you'll be able to deal serious damage on the way in with the right angle of attack. Right now it seems a lot more like those old bi-planes you saw attacking king kong in the movies. Lots of zooming around and not much else, with the occasional lerk being swatted out of the sky by a marine.
Its hard not get hit by Grenades but its very nice to fly and shoot gas.
Finaly the spikes are working well.
But the "shotgun" spikes are a bit weird, feels like it did just double damage but take tripple of energy.
Anyway better then the sniper lerk.
Concerning the sounds, it seems a bit overloaded now. Not in a bad way, but it's really obnoxious to hear these synthetic sounds (really loud too) when a teammate kills something way across the map.
Is anyone else having this issue?
Probably all 3.
Incoming/outgoing rates were staying above 15, usually around 20, the whole time.
Also had black screen issue numerous times.
Also crashed toward the end of the one good game I had. That said, the lerk was kinda fun, although I find it lame that a few bullets hitting a lerk seems to their forward momentum in flight (usually right next to the marine), making them sitting ducks (er lerks). This makes the new cropduster ability useless against a marine that can aim.
Yes same thing happened to me. I was in the corner of the hallway avoiding the nade spam and neither the primary hitscan or the altfire spikes were registering. Now this to me was not a large distance. I moved a few steps closer and the hits started registering but naturally I ripped to shreds by nades and turret spam.
This needs to be addressed by next patch as it is clearly one of the factors causing the Build 185 stalemates.
This needs to be addressed by next patch as it is clearly one of the factors causing the Build 185 stalemates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same thing here. If I sit just to the right of the stairs in DC facing the exit from Vent I can't hit marines unless I leave cover and get shredded apart by gunfire.
EDIT: Played a bit of the current build and just wanted to post my opinion. The low FPS just makes it impossible to aim. Skulks were just destroying our team easily and pushing us right back into the base. I hope FPS improves soon as it's a lot less fun to play. It's hard to judge the balance of anything else because the performance is so poor.
I really appreciated how NS1 had very few moments where you actually fought hitscan vs hitscan. With fast projectiles instead of hitscan lerks could do a little trickery with corners and marines could still do slight bits of dodging. All in all it would play out a lot less like a traditional gun vs gun FPS at that point.
Any advice
Keyword: Natural selection 2 build 185 0 no servers
Any advice
Keyword: Natural selection 2 build 185 0 no servers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go to for example options menu and then come back to the server list menu. Sometimes that helps. If that doesn't help restart the game. That fixes the problem for me at last.
or create a local game, exit, go to server list. Might also work.
whatever it is down to, there is something fundamentally not finished with the combat in the game.
the thing is, it really makes me rage. It doesn't matter that I was outclassed, it doesn't matter that I made a poor tactical decision and that is why I lost my fade, it <b>feels</b> like the engine let me down.
...
please, please, <b>please </b>focus first of all on this most crucial part of the experience.
I know its probably more esoteric, and harder to effect than a new unit, or gameplay element, but ultimately it doesn't matter that a new class was added or tweaked for balance when the world that class lives in feels sluggish and consequently 'unfair'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Melatonin,
You're right. Our main focus is getting the overall combat "feel" right. This is a massive task. It encompasses server performance, client performance, networking efficiency, networking structure, prediction, lag-compensation, weapon feel, feedback and game balance.
So the short answer is - we're on top of this but it's not going to get better overnight. If you're super-frustrated, I won't be offended if you took a break for a bit, knowing you'll be back when everything is working better. All I can say is that the nature of the beta and it's just going to take some more time!
We won't stop until it feels great.