Put an infantry portal ON the command station
liambarden
Join Date: 2011-06-29 Member: 107096Members
Join Date: 2011-06-29 Member: 107096Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Stop IP rushes</div>
THE PROBLEM:
At the moment, the asymmetry of the teams means that marines have to build IP's before they can start spawning in, whereas the aliens spawn right off the bat.
This means that the aliens can rush the IP's, as im sure youre aware if youve played the game for any length of time, and bring a sudden, premature end to a game just because there wasnt a marine in base at the exact moment they deicded to attack.
This would be a valid strategy if there was an equivalent strategy for the marines, but there isnt. Hives have a lot more health than IP's and have healing too. The closest parallell is the marines killing all the eggs so aliens cant spawn while they attack the hive, but this is still much more difficult than an IP rush because the eggs will keep respawning until the hive is down, and this kind of attack will take several marines to pull off while an IP rush could be done by just one skulk.
THE SOLUTION:
The solution is very simple. Attach an IP to the side of the command station. This way, the marines always have at least one IP until the command station is destoyed. If more spawning speed is needed they can then build more IP's to supplement. Also, as the command station stays active when the power is down (i think), it means the marines will have at least one IP if the power in start is ninjakilled, giving the marines a fighting chance right to the end. It also means that people joining the teams right after game start can spawn immediately, and not have to wait for an IP drop.
As far as I can see, this wont lead to any unintended exploits being created, so I reckon this is a good idea. What do you think, community?
THE PROBLEM:
At the moment, the asymmetry of the teams means that marines have to build IP's before they can start spawning in, whereas the aliens spawn right off the bat.
This means that the aliens can rush the IP's, as im sure youre aware if youve played the game for any length of time, and bring a sudden, premature end to a game just because there wasnt a marine in base at the exact moment they deicded to attack.
This would be a valid strategy if there was an equivalent strategy for the marines, but there isnt. Hives have a lot more health than IP's and have healing too. The closest parallell is the marines killing all the eggs so aliens cant spawn while they attack the hive, but this is still much more difficult than an IP rush because the eggs will keep respawning until the hive is down, and this kind of attack will take several marines to pull off while an IP rush could be done by just one skulk.
THE SOLUTION:
The solution is very simple. Attach an IP to the side of the command station. This way, the marines always have at least one IP until the command station is destoyed. If more spawning speed is needed they can then build more IP's to supplement. Also, as the command station stays active when the power is down (i think), it means the marines will have at least one IP if the power in start is ninjakilled, giving the marines a fighting chance right to the end. It also means that people joining the teams right after game start can spawn immediately, and not have to wait for an IP drop.
As far as I can see, this wont lead to any unintended exploits being created, so I reckon this is a good idea. What do you think, community?
Comments
Maybe a simpler solution would be to spawn marine players in after 25 seconds as alive instead of dead so they can help build the IPs. I say 25 seconds because there are some matches when there isn't a commander for about that long.. If you are base rushed after that you deserve to lose for not being competent enough to drop 1 or 2 buildings by yourself.
I always liked the idea of having no IP at the start. It meant the commander could possibly go for an all-in plan such as a shotgun rush or possibly a relocate. The point for having no IP was that at the start of every round there would only be 2 marines left in the base. 1 would jump straight into the command station while the other would be at marine start building whatever the commander dropped. The rest of the team would be go scouting and capping resource towers.
At least in NS1 there was possibility to kill hive the same way you say aliens do to marines atm. One marine goes silently near the hive and builds PG, then everybody gets shotgun and hive down. Of course this doesnt work to every hive, but can be done if aliens dont check the areas.
Any skulk cana void mines, but when they are placed around the ip, and the spawning marines runs around the ip, the skulk is sure to blow up.
Any skulk cana void mines, but when they are placed around the ip, and the spawning marines runs around the ip, the skulk is sure to blow up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A determined skulk will simply respawn and come back, where all the mines will now be conveniently cleared. This is a big problem because it happens so regularly when clans play for example. Many 1-2 minute games are the result.
I think the solution is simple... all IP's should have a bug-zapper ability that makes it hard for skulks to base rush ips (early game atleast). Make it like that zapper weapon in AlienSwarm so any skulks near the currently zapped skulk will get fried also.
I think the solution is simple... all IP's should have a bug-zapper ability that makes it hard for skulks to base rush ips (early game atleast). Make it like that zapper weapon in AlienSwarm so any skulks near the currently zapped skulk will get fried also.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Am I the only person that thinks <strike>you must be retarded for even suggesting that?</strike> that is a stupid idea? Think about it from the aliens side - aliens are only melee and you're even trying to take that from them... all putting a bug zapper would do is make noob players afraid to attack IPs altogether and that's the worst damn thing that can ever happen.. making noobs more cowardly than they already are. I think I would stop playing NS2 if something like that were implemented, simply because I know all it would entail is me running back and forth from poorly placed crags to marine start for an hour. Edit: Or for that matter, multitasking commander by myself to place better placed crags so I can run back and forth from my own crags to marine start for 45 minutes.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Do <b>not</b> make discussions personal. --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I always liked how the no ip at start forced the marines to appoint a commander.
I think the solution is simple... all IP's should have a bug-zapper ability that makes it hard for skulks to base rush ips (early game atleast). Make it like that zapper weapon in AlienSwarm so any skulks near the currently zapped skulk will get fried also.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or, just make it so that any skulk chomping on the IP when a marine spawns is killed. This gives the spawning marine a chance to fight back and reduces the value of IP camping.
Also, many of the other suggestions (beacon, mines, etc) aren't useful against an early-game rush, which is where this problem is the worst. IMO, the IP should be vulnerable except when a marine spawns.
1) For symmetry purposes, I'd rather there is more asymmetry.
2) For balance, why aren't you defending your spawn or building IPs immediately? Also, the fluctuating degrees of Marine/Skulk balance are probably more to blame here.
The only major difference I can see from NS1 balance is Aliens now spawn from eggs instead of 1 per Hive. Marines used to have a distinct advantage for early respawn by building 2 IPs, and competent Marine could take down a Skulk or two in an open room like Marine Start.
Also, Mines. They are useful.
"THEY'RE ON THE IP! ARRGGGGHHH GET THE SKULK.....NOOOO THE IP IS GONE!"
Thats right. Its good that there is an asymmetry and its a key element of NS and that ist also why I like it. If you want symmtry play counter-strike.
Disagree strongly with this; with the high HP of IPs (and to a much larger degree, CCs) and *low* hp of eggs, this is simply a failing on the Marine team's part. Most of the team hangs out in-base until an Armory can be built, and someone grabs a shotgun. Generally speaking, one marine with a shotty is enough to put an end to most early-game base rushes. Especially so if the Comm pops out to help.
Perhaps you haven't played Natural Selection 1, but their was a method for upgrading structures to have an electrical-based zapping defense mechanism that was especially damaging for skulks.
Why my suggestion will work:
1. The IP-zap capability could be disabled by destroying the power node (which conveniently shuts down the entire marine base). If their's no power-node because of the maps design, then we can require that their be a portable-power node before a base can be built by the com.
2. The skulks shouldn't be thinking at the start of every round, "hey lets rush marine start and end it before 1 minute"... that's just poor game design.
3. An electrical defense on IP's is the asymetrical equilivent to the hives having many eggs to protect the aliens so they can spawn. Additionally it fits with the marine-team-technology theme of ns1, to have electrical based defenses.
4. It looks a lot better then requiring that marines drop 4+ IP's and/or turrets just to protect the round from a cheap early ending from noob aliens.
A possible variation of my idea is to instead give the capability to the CC. This way it'll be more artistically impressive to see giant lightning bolts flying around. Or, it can be part of a defense ability of the CC so the com can just press a button to fry everything nearby (higher lifeforms will be able to get away, but free/cheap lifeforms will be vaporized :P)
Their's no reason to disregard stuff because it was never added (or only partially added) to NS1. The balance of NS1 may have made it appropriate to not have it there, but NS2 is a completely different game so really only the devs can decide if it fits with what they're planning. I only mentioned NS1 because i wanted to show that having electricity defend a structure is not something that's so new and radical that it can't be considered for use in NS2.
Also, I can't see any way for making this either cost res or be an upgrade to IPs because if given a choice nearly 100% of comms will skip doing the research. It's the same reason we don't normally see coms drop base turrets at the start of a round. If the purpose is to defend the IP in the early game then for it to work as a deterrent to base rushes it must be something associated with all IPs.
If you want to fix baserushing, make marine start with a pair of sentries covering the room, and you might consider something similar for aliens.
If you want to fix the main problem with IPs, honestly you could probably do a lot by removing the stupid radius around the CC and just letting you drop them anywhere in the room, that'd make it a lot harder to camp them all.
Though I have to agree with some others here right now, if you cant defend your IP then your team deserved to lose sadly, they're supposed to be very important after all.
3. An electrical defense on IP's is the asymetrical equilivent to the hives having many eggs to protect the aliens so they can spawn. Additionally it fits with the marine-team-technology theme of ns1, to have electrical based defenses.
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I coded in (for my mod) the option to electrify powerpacks (10 + 15 res), which turned out to be really good at defending IP's against skulks, but due to the low damage and consuming their energy, they cannot kill anything higher than skulks or are also useless against constant rushes. If you build such thing early game you wasted a lot of resources (which could have been put into upgrades), but the base is more or less save then
do you see IP spam in marine base? no ? try sometimes and you will see advantages of it ... ^_^
1: In the divot in base. It's a great place for an armory because marines can get weapons and be shielded at the time, and any enemy trying to destroy the armory is far enough away from the rest of the structures to not be able to stop infantry from spawning when they see an IP spin up. I place my robotics factory behind the CC against the wall, where it blocks skulks from being able to hide behind the command chair and forces them upward into turret arcs or at least, plain sight. I've only had a single MAC get stuck with this.
+1 :) It's also a nice to see the portable power thing have some sort of defense.