<!--quoteo(post=1882357:date=Oct 27 2011, 01:38 PM:name=Wavesonics)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wavesonics @ Oct 27 2011, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Cory, I like pretty much everything in there. Especially the more extreme power-off effects. But does this mean that alient Hive's will pretty much always have full lighting? I really liked the idea of Hive's being dark but lit by glowing Alien structures. Very cool effect. Dark Alien hives I say!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Glowing alien structures would be a bad idea.
Decent Gorges and Alien Commanders try to put their structures somewhere hard to notice. Glowing just highlights structures for the marines.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1882358:date=Oct 27 2011, 12:52 PM:name=TheLord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheLord @ Oct 27 2011, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So here's my idea: Those power nodes/packs should cost the energy. CC energy - power packs would be the marine variant of pustules, meant to stop them from capturing the whole map really fast and also giving them a reason to build multiple CCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wrote charlie an e-mail about that 2 days ago. so yeah, i fully support this! (alongside with a powergrid system, but it's not the right time for that since it would cause a lot balance issues, so i'll just mod that in once 188 hits :P )
<!--quoteo(post=1882358:date=Oct 27 2011, 01:52 PM:name=TheLord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheLord @ Oct 27 2011, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So here's my idea: Those power nodes/packs should cost the energy. CC energy - power packs would be the marine variant of pustules, meant to stop them from capturing the whole map really fast and also giving them a reason to build multiple CCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1882358:date=Oct 27 2011, 01:52 PM:name=TheLord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheLord @ Oct 27 2011, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So here's my idea: Those power nodes/packs should cost the energy. CC energy - power packs would be the marine variant of pustules, meant to stop them from capturing the whole map really fast and also giving them a reason to build multiple CCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like the idea but it needs a little bit of tweaking. Power packs would have to cost more CC energy than Alien Cysts because they are less vulnerable than cysts. Two reasons for this:
- Power packs to do not need have to be connected to other power packs in a chain. - Destruction of power packs do not cause the other power packs to die.
Thus they should cost slightly more energy to be dropped.
The updated version of the socket system mentions that interaction with a damaged power node will cause immediate lighting feedback. This is similar to the long-ago discussed idea of having the lights flicker when a powernode was being damaged.
From the socket doc: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As it’s being repaired, it may start to affect the lights for immediate feedback and to help improve the situation for the marines. If we have time, we may also the danging power pack respond to touch by swinging and momentarily affecting the lights.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the type of direct interaction with the lights I've been really wanting to see. When the marines are repairing, the lighting in that area will get brighter. This will alert aliens to what is happening. When the damaged power node is hit by aliens, it will cause the lights to flicker erratically. This would be a great distraction before an ambush. I'm very excited to see this type of lighting interaction in game!
<!--quoteo(post=1882360:date=Oct 27 2011, 02:00 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Oct 27 2011, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glowing alien structures would be a bad idea.
Decent Gorges and Alien Commanders try to put their structures somewhere hard to notice. Glowing just highlights structures for the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think rather than the buildings glowing, there should be bioluminescence on the infestation itself. Something kind of like this:
While I like the socket idea, the problem is that it creates a weird situation where the Aliens can only create a less lighted room after the Marines have built a power pack there and then had it destroyed.
Instead of that, why not have a room that has no PP become dark if DI creeps into it. That way Aliens have a way of reducing the light without needing to destroy a PP.
Also, have a destroyed PP have a different lighting effect than simply an infested room. An infested room would have no light, while a destroyed PP room would have emergency lights / dimming lights.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2011
Alien structures should glow in the darkness (bioluminescence). I hope they expand the color palate beyond the monochromatic orange theme so rooms really come to life and are fairly pretty to look at. After all, aliens are mostly blue colored so why can't structures get some colored lighting?
<!--quoteo(post=1882380:date=Oct 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=Stexe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stexe @ Oct 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I like the socket idea, the problem is that it creates a weird situation where the Aliens can only create a less lighted room after the Marines have built a power pack there and then had it destroyed.
Instead of that, why not have a room that has no PP become dark if DI creeps into it. That way Aliens have a way of reducing the light without needing to destroy a PP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is my concern exactely, and you come to the same conclusion :)
Agreed, they just need to make DI cover up lights and windows. It will allow aliens to control lighting, make infestation seem more of a threat, and looks <i>bad ass</i>.
power packs should be change to battery packs, make them short term, have them need time to recharge or say you can buy more charge if the comm does it (kinda like the turret idea and reloading).... also limit the number of structures it can power.... and is it just me but i wish there were cables instead of this tesla thing going on, i wanna chew a wire and kill power to a specific item quickly but repairable...
final thing why dos the animation of the marine have the gun held pointed up when they run but when i run i point the gun down... am i the only one who runs around with there gun pointed at the ground? ....
1st I agree power packs are flawed but I'm really disappointed power packs are going to be removed as a mobile power source. They are a great feature that makes the games RTS outpost / base style of play dynamic. As a commander if I want to set up a base in a corridor I can.
I think removing power packs will mean that marine bases are always in the same locations, With more sentries protecting power nodes as holding the node will be everything to marines now.
2nd Losing a base to one mechanic with out a chance of redemption is a off putting, Remember why infestation pustule chains were changed to slowly die and recede ?
Armies plan for contingencies, It's not unreasonable for marines to have temporary solutions to problems, you acknowledge that by already having Med packs, Ammo packs and Flash lights all temporary solutions.
I truly believe making power packs temporary, giving them a finite life rather than removing them all together is a more compromising a realistic solution.
<!--quoteo(post=1882357:date=Oct 27 2011, 05:38 PM:name=Wavesonics)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wavesonics @ Oct 27 2011, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But does this mean that alient Hive's will pretty much always have full lighting? I really liked the idea of Hive's being dark but lit by glowing Alien structures. Very cool effect. Dark Alien hives I say!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We've never intended alien hive rooms to naturally be dark and "scary" places. Its not a horror game like Dead Space, and the aliens aren't inherently evil. We actually want hive rooms to be visible, and feel like creepy but atmospheric, exotic and almost beautiful environments, a lush alien home, wiith the growing infestation, glowing bio-luminescence, mist and ground fog. We intend to do more on the FX side eventually, such as mist and fog, and color grading to create a filtered lighting look and and some color tint, and give the rooms a sort of underwater feel. Visibility can still be an element, where the ground fog/mist can contribute to aliens not being as easily spotted, not to mention the camouflage from the Shade.
That way, the full darkness, from the lights and power being off, is reserved for contested areas, a sign of conflict and territorial control.
Well if aliens get mist as a hive visibility buff, I'm all for generous atmospheric lighting. It sort of ties the Kharaa into nature and the environment.
<!--quoteo(post=1882411:date=Oct 28 2011, 01:14 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 28 2011, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've never intended alien hive rooms to naturally be dark and "scary" places. Its not a horror game like Dead Space, and the aliens aren't inherently evil. We actually want hive rooms to be visible, and feel like creepy but atmospheric, exotic and almost beautiful environments, a lush alien home, wiith the growing infestation, glowing bio-luminescence, mist and ground fog. We intend to do more on the FX side eventually, such as mist and fog, and color grading to create a filtered lighting look and and some color tint, and give the rooms a sort of underwater feel. Visibility can still be an element, where the ground fog/mist can contribute to aliens not being as easily spotted, not to mention the camouflage from the Shade.
That way, the full darkness, from the lights and power being off, is reserved for contested areas, a sign of conflict and territorial control.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
in practical view, you made main hives completely exposed areas. Its not about making hives creepy but rather not so exposed. What's the point of other rooms on the map which aliens control be dark while main hive stays completely exposed? you trying to make this about graphics (you want things to be pretty) but in gameplay sense it does not work/bad idea.
1.remove fixed locations for aliens, being stuck in the same location constantly isn't just annoying but makes gameplay almost the same every map. In ns1, having different hive locations completely changed which tactic aliens will be using, and what quickly must be done.
2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way. And currently the fixed hive locations favor marines more then actual aliens who control them..bad design.
i'm all for pretty stuff but rooms seriously need to favor the team which controls it.
<!--quoteo(post=1882414:date=Oct 27 2011, 09:30 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 27 2011, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in practical view, you made main hives completely exposed areas. Its not about making hives creepy but rather not so exposed. What's the point of other rooms on the map which aliens control be dark while main hive stays completely exposed? you trying to make this about graphics (you want things to be pretty) but in gameplay sense it does not work/bad idea.
1.remove fixed locations for aliens, being stuck in the same location constantly isn't just annoying but makes gameplay almost the same every map. In ns1, having different hive locations completely changed which tactic aliens will be using, and what quickly must be done.
2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way. And currently the fixed hive locations favor marines more then actual aliens who control them..bad design.
i'm all for pretty stuff but rooms seriously need to favor the team which controls it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Agreed.
2. Agreed. The problem with this is that it is up to the mappers to decide how well the hives are defended.
<!--quoteo(post=1882414:date=Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.remove fixed locations for aliens,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We have been discussing that possibly, and may actually move in that direction, but nothing definite yet. <!--quoteo(post=1882414:date=Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no reason a hive room has to be dark and hard to see in, in order for it to be a dangerous place for marines to be in. The hive rooms in NS1 weren't that way, and they still favored aliens just fine.
<!--quoteo(post=1882411:date=Oct 28 2011, 03:14 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 28 2011, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That way, the full darkness, from the lights and power being off, is reserved for contested areas, a sign of conflict and territorial control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mind hives being lush and beautiful places, I already think hydra bunches look lovely. However, if the power can only be removed where the Marines have used power, you will get this odd effect that there is power, then darkness surround it, and then there's nothing. Full light and no infestation; the infestation haven't caught up with the front and contested areas yet. And when it does, it's still going to be light up (eventually distorted lights though?) away from the immediate contested zones. When the bio-luminence and the infestation cover lights, that will be fine though.
The idea to have gorges being able to put postules in empty sockets was a good one, to short out the lights and draw energy from it. Should be limited so that you can't chain more infestation from that though, to make a small oasis of defense.
<!--quoteo(post=1882424:date=Oct 28 2011, 02:38 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 28 2011, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have been discussing that possibly, and may actually move in that direction, but nothing definite yet.
There is no reason a hive room has to be dark and hard to see in, in order for it to be a dangerous place for marines to be in. The hive rooms in NS1 weren't that way, and they still favored aliens just fine.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this isn't about just hive rooms being dark but drawing line between which territory belongs to who. With better lightning, infestation and whole new engine we are no longer limited by NS1 engine.(graphics wise) So we must expand on that, creating better alien environment, but this doesn't mean alien environment should be the same as marine one.
Rooms/hive locations which are controlled by the aliens should be clear not just by seeing the infestation. Alien eyes aren't limited to require lightning, the rooms they control must reflect that change. I'm not aiming at towars pitch darkness here but rather an enviroment that gives the advantage to the team which controls it. Aliens depend on shadows, darkness and ambush why wouldn't their environment reflect on that?
You could have the hive cast light...a certain color....lets say orange or green. Art assets could take advantage of the extreme change of color. I have dynamic art displays which cycle through colors on the same painting.
So with power out a room is dark some light from emergency lighting. As a gorge and commander build up room with some infestation and hydras some more light is thrown giving it an eerie look. When the hive is built it emits strong light which again changes the look of the tech point.
i agree with luns alien areas in general should have more shadows.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
I don't know if this has been suggested before, but how about limiting powernodes to tech point rooms only? So basically; all the other rooms and hallways are powered on all the time wheres the hive and adjacent rooms have their power status decided by the state of the powernode.
Basically the "powernode metagame" adds very little to say a small room with one harvester -- it's just unneccesary tedium. In tech point rooms it makes more sense as a gameplay function however. This would solve the problem of having to walk through basically an entire map with emergency lighting, skulks having to bite powernodes half the game and marines having to repair them all the time (all boring and detracts from the gameplay experience). All the while keeping the somewhat novel aspect of controlling the lighting in pivotal parts of the map and using it strategically.
If the idea is to make hive rooms fully lighted (through structure luminescence if need be), then this "solution" obviously doesn't make much sense. In that case I'd suggest scrapping the entire power node system. Frankly, in most rooms it adds nothing to the gameplay experience. You've basically just added another static object that you have to stare at and press e until you get to do the fun stuff (in addition to the harvester). "Creative" work-arounds like sockets and whatnot won't change that, only make it slightly less apparent (not to mention the big boxes sticking out of the walls in every room looks very artificial and actually detracts from the atmosphere).
that's not necessarily true. for example, marines can build up in FC to allow easy access to 2 hives (well, doesn't matter that heliport is easy to lock down in and of itself). without power node gameplay there, it would be rather easy for the marines to completely lock down access to that half of the map, and crossroads. Generally speaking there are some places that can be strategically important for the marines to build up in as forward bases that, without the powernode mechanic, would make it nearly impossible for the alien team to destroy with a reasonable commitment of time and/or pRes.
What if the gorge had a sapper (Tf2 spy?) for power nodes? That way it could go after power nodes and not require a player to actively munch for so long (I would argue is problem 5, boring static actions like biting crap for 2 mins). It might encourage gorges and skulks to work together offensively more. It could also address problem 1 partially allowing a gorge to take down multiple packs by overwhelming the marines when backed up with support from skulks/fades.
Also, what if cysts could get a range boost when built on top of the power node. This might also have some interesting qualities.
Or combine the two somehow (IE, cysts cover most of the room with infestation when built on top of a power node but the power has to remain on). The gorge would have to choose to sap, or to boost with a cyst. This decision could be available at all times or you might have to evolve to one path or the other. Also, having aliens choose to be in a room with the power on might help with problem 2.
I can't say this would affect problem 3, and it might make problem 4 worse if other parameters are not adjusted.
Just some ideas to supplement what is already there, rather than to limit things.
EDIT: Some other ideas as I think of them: Flairs. What if marines could bring more lighting with them. Have really effective flairs that the marines could bring along.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1882546:date=Oct 28 2011, 10:34 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Oct 28 2011, 10:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that's not necessarily true. for example, marines can build up in FC to allow easy access to 2 hives (well, doesn't matter that heliport is easy to lock down in and of itself). without power node gameplay there, it would be rather easy for the marines to completely lock down access to that half of the map, and crossroads. Generally speaking there are some places that can be strategically important for the marines to build up in as forward bases that, without the powernode mechanic, would make it nearly impossible for the alien team to destroy with a reasonable commitment of time and/or pRes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the marines are winning games by turretfarming flight control, either there's something terribly wrong with the game balance or the aliens are all first time players.
Aliens didn't need powernodes to destroy marine forward bases in NS1, I don't see what's changed in NS2 that makes any difference in that regard (assuming some of the terrible stalemate-causing issues get fixed soon).
It might be just because I am playing in 640x480 on a crappy laptop, but I have a hard time seeing and tracking Skulks/Aliens/Marines because characters blend so definitely with the environments.
<!--quoteo(post=1882570:date=Oct 28 2011, 04:37 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 28 2011, 04:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might be just because I am playing in 640x480 on a crappy laptop, but I have a hard time seeing and tracking Skulks/Aliens/Marines because characters blend so definitely with the environments.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am going to go ahead and say that your situation is definitely worsened by your hardware. It can be hard to track at times though. Which is okay with me. I'm in a hive room! Aliens should have some advantage.
<!--quoteo(post=1882570:date=Oct 28 2011, 07:37 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 28 2011, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might be just because I am playing in 640x480 on a crappy laptop, but I have a hard time seeing and tracking Skulks/Aliens/Marines because characters blend so definitely with the environments.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1920x1080 w/ GTX 560 here: If there's a skulk hiding half the map down a dark hallway from me, I'm already putting bullets into it. I think it's mainly your graphics.
<!--quoteo(post=1882570:date=Oct 28 2011, 08:37 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 28 2011, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might be just because I am playing in 640x480 on a crappy laptop, but I have a hard time seeing and tracking Skulks/Aliens/Marines because characters blend so definitely with the environments.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgetting that most creatures evolve some kind of camouflage to blend in with their environments, and the fact skulks are different colours to the NS2 environments anyways.... Maybe we should make the skulks bright pink.
Comments
Glowing alien structures would be a bad idea.
Decent Gorges and Alien Commanders try to put their structures somewhere hard to notice. Glowing just highlights structures for the marines.
i wrote charlie an e-mail about that 2 days ago. so yeah, i fully support this! (alongside with a powergrid system, but it's not the right time for that since it would cause a lot balance issues, so i'll just mod that in once 188 hits :P )
very good idea!
QFT
I like the idea but it needs a little bit of tweaking. Power packs would have to cost more CC energy than Alien Cysts because they are less vulnerable than cysts. Two reasons for this:
- Power packs to do not need have to be connected to other power packs in a chain.
- Destruction of power packs do not cause the other power packs to die.
Thus they should cost slightly more energy to be dropped.
From the socket doc:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As it’s being repaired, it may start to affect the lights for immediate feedback and to help improve the situation for the marines. If we have time, we may also the danging power pack respond to touch by swinging and momentarily affecting the lights.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the type of direct interaction with the lights I've been really wanting to see. When the marines are repairing, the lighting in that area will get brighter. This will alert aliens to what is happening. When the damaged power node is hit by aliens, it will cause the lights to flicker erratically. This would be a great distraction before an ambush. I'm very excited to see this type of lighting interaction in game!
Decent Gorges and Alien Commanders try to put their structures somewhere hard to notice. Glowing just highlights structures for the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think rather than the buildings glowing, there should be bioluminescence on the infestation itself. Something kind of like this:
<img src="http://i10.servimg.com/u/10/09/34/60/v004_t10.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Except orange. I think that would make the alien rooms look even more unreal, while still keeping alien structures hidden.
Instead of that, why not have a room that has no PP become dark if DI creeps into it. That way Aliens have a way of reducing the light without needing to destroy a PP.
Also, have a destroyed PP have a different lighting effect than simply an infested room. An infested room would have no light, while a destroyed PP room would have emergency lights / dimming lights.
Instead of that, why not have a room that has no PP become dark if DI creeps into it. That way Aliens have a way of reducing the light without needing to destroy a PP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is my concern exactely, and you come to the same conclusion :)
final thing why dos the animation of the marine have the gun held pointed up when they run but when i run i point the gun down... am i the only one who runs around with there gun pointed at the ground? ....
I agree power packs are flawed but I'm really disappointed power packs are going to be removed as a mobile power source. They are a great feature that makes the games RTS outpost / base style of play dynamic. As a commander if I want to set up a base in a corridor I can.
I think removing power packs will mean that marine bases are always in the same locations, With more sentries protecting power nodes as holding the node will be everything to marines now.
2nd
Losing a base to one mechanic with out a chance of redemption is a off putting, Remember why infestation pustule chains were changed to slowly die and recede ?
Armies plan for contingencies, It's not unreasonable for marines to have temporary solutions to problems, you acknowledge that by already having Med packs, Ammo packs and Flash lights all temporary solutions.
I truly believe making power packs temporary, giving them a finite life rather than removing them all together is a more compromising a realistic solution.
We've never intended alien hive rooms to naturally be dark and "scary" places. Its not a horror game like Dead Space, and the aliens aren't inherently evil. We actually want hive rooms to be visible, and feel like creepy but atmospheric, exotic and almost beautiful environments, a lush alien home, wiith the growing infestation, glowing bio-luminescence, mist and ground fog. We intend to do more on the FX side eventually, such as mist and fog, and color grading to create a filtered lighting look and and some color tint, and give the rooms a sort of underwater feel. Visibility can still be an element, where the ground fog/mist can contribute to aliens not being as easily spotted, not to mention the camouflage from the Shade.
That way, the full darkness, from the lights and power being off, is reserved for contested areas, a sign of conflict and territorial control.
--Cory
That way, the full darkness, from the lights and power being off, is reserved for contested areas, a sign of conflict and territorial control.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
in practical view, you made main hives completely exposed areas. Its not about making hives creepy but rather not so exposed. What's the point of other rooms on the map which aliens control be dark while main hive stays completely exposed? you trying to make this about graphics (you want things to be pretty) but in gameplay sense it does not work/bad idea.
1.remove fixed locations for aliens, being stuck in the same location constantly isn't just annoying but makes gameplay almost the same every map. In ns1, having different hive locations completely changed which tactic aliens will be using, and what quickly must be done.
2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way. And currently the fixed hive locations favor marines more then actual aliens who control them..bad design.
i'm all for pretty stuff but rooms seriously need to favor the team which controls it.
1.remove fixed locations for aliens, being stuck in the same location constantly isn't just annoying but makes gameplay almost the same every map. In ns1, having different hive locations completely changed which tactic aliens will be using, and what quickly must be done.
2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way. And currently the fixed hive locations favor marines more then actual aliens who control them..bad design.
i'm all for pretty stuff but rooms seriously need to favor the team which controls it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed. The problem with this is that it is up to the mappers to decide how well the hives are defended.
We have been discussing that possibly, and may actually move in that direction, but nothing definite yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1882414:date=Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 28 2011, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. hive rooms should NOT be so easily visible to marines when they walk through them. They must be as any other room aliens control, dark, hard to see and completely favor the aliens in every way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no reason a hive room has to be dark and hard to see in, in order for it to be a dangerous place for marines to be in. The hive rooms in NS1 weren't that way, and they still favored aliens just fine.
--Cory
I don't mind hives being lush and beautiful places, I already think hydra bunches look lovely. However, if the power can only be removed where the Marines have used power, you will get this odd effect that there is power, then darkness surround it, and then there's nothing. Full light and no infestation; the infestation haven't caught up with the front and contested areas yet. And when it does, it's still going to be light up (eventually distorted lights though?) away from the immediate contested zones. When the bio-luminence and the infestation cover lights, that will be fine though.
The idea to have gorges being able to put postules in empty sockets was a good one, to short out the lights and draw energy from it. Should be limited so that you can't chain more infestation from that though, to make a small oasis of defense.
There is no reason a hive room has to be dark and hard to see in, in order for it to be a dangerous place for marines to be in. The hive rooms in NS1 weren't that way, and they still favored aliens just fine.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this isn't about just hive rooms being dark but drawing line between which territory belongs to who.
With better lightning, infestation and whole new engine we are no longer limited by NS1 engine.(graphics wise)
So we must expand on that, creating better alien environment, but this doesn't mean alien environment should be the same as marine one.
Rooms/hive locations which are controlled by the aliens should be clear not just by seeing the infestation.
Alien eyes aren't limited to require lightning, the rooms they control must reflect that change.
I'm not aiming at towars pitch darkness here but rather an enviroment that gives the advantage to the team which controls it.
Aliens depend on shadows, darkness and ambush why wouldn't their environment reflect on that?
i hope fixed locations are gone soon.
Art assets could take advantage of the extreme change of color.
I have dynamic art displays which cycle through colors on the same painting.
So with power out a room is dark some light from emergency lighting.
As a gorge and commander build up room with some infestation and hydras some more light is thrown giving it an eerie look.
When the hive is built it emits strong light which again changes the look of the tech point.
i agree with luns alien areas in general should have more shadows.
Basically the "powernode metagame" adds very little to say a small room with one harvester -- it's just unneccesary tedium. In tech point rooms it makes more sense as a gameplay function however. This would solve the problem of having to walk through basically an entire map with emergency lighting, skulks having to bite powernodes half the game and marines having to repair them all the time (all boring and detracts from the gameplay experience). All the while keeping the somewhat novel aspect of controlling the lighting in pivotal parts of the map and using it strategically.
If the idea is to make hive rooms fully lighted (through structure luminescence if need be), then this "solution" obviously doesn't make much sense. In that case I'd suggest scrapping the entire power node system. Frankly, in most rooms it adds nothing to the gameplay experience. You've basically just added another static object that you have to stare at and press e until you get to do the fun stuff (in addition to the harvester). "Creative" work-arounds like sockets and whatnot won't change that, only make it slightly less apparent (not to mention the big boxes sticking out of the walls in every room looks very artificial and actually detracts from the atmosphere).
Also, what if cysts could get a range boost when built on top of the power node. This might also have some interesting qualities.
Or combine the two somehow (IE, cysts cover most of the room with infestation when built on top of a power node but the power has to remain on). The gorge would have to choose to sap, or to boost with a cyst. This decision could be available at all times or you might have to evolve to one path or the other. Also, having aliens choose to be in a room with the power on might help with problem 2.
I can't say this would affect problem 3, and it might make problem 4 worse if other parameters are not adjusted.
Just some ideas to supplement what is already there, rather than to limit things.
EDIT: Some other ideas as I think of them:
Flairs. What if marines could bring more lighting with them. Have really effective flairs that the marines could bring along.
If the marines are winning games by turretfarming flight control, either there's something terribly wrong with the game balance or the aliens are all first time players.
Aliens didn't need powernodes to destroy marine forward bases in NS1, I don't see what's changed in NS2 that makes any difference in that regard (assuming some of the terrible stalemate-causing issues get fixed soon).
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am going to go ahead and say that your situation is definitely worsened by your hardware. It can be hard to track at times though. Which is okay with me. I'm in a hive room! Aliens should have some advantage.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1920x1080 w/ GTX 560 here: If there's a skulk hiding half the map down a dark hallway from me, I'm already putting bullets into it. I think it's mainly your graphics.
The dark of rooms doesn't help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgetting that most creatures evolve some kind of camouflage to blend in with their environments, and the fact skulks are different colours to the NS2 environments anyways.... Maybe we should make the skulks bright pink.