I think the main issue is that the static defense can hold its own too easily with very little support from players.
If a forward base is that important then there needs to be players there to support it, and I'm not just talking about playing repairman.
-Make the sentries require ammo that must be run to it from the turret factories. This would make the amount of effective turrets a function of its supporting players, and the skill of aliens to shut down ammo runners.
-Make hydras last for a limited period of time. This would make the amount of effective hydras a function of mobile gorges who are supporting multiple areas of the map, and the skill of marines to hunt down gorges.
This would create a limit to the amount of defenses possible to support, and if everyone is focused on supporting defenses then they surely aren't attacking the enemy team-> this forces a forward progression for the attacking team and a no win for the stagnant defender.
<!--quoteo(post=1882130:date=Oct 26 2011, 01:47 PM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Oct 26 2011, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You were hoping that the majority of players agreed with you and were asking for them to be removed, otherwise you would not have made the thread with topic 'Please remove static defence'.
Just because the player base and the devs didn't agree with you, don't mean you should then try to back track on what you were requesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course I was hoping the majority of players agree with me. I didn't know if they would or not. I am genuinely interested in the purpose of static defence in the game and if there is an alternative and I was expressing my frustration caused by them. I'm not back tracking. It'd be great if they were removed, but I didn't expect UW to do so, even if many people agreed with me. All I can hope for is that they understand some people are frustrated with turrets etc. and try and downplay their role in the game.
@Scythe, you don't need to have 24/7 defence at all your RTs just to make sure they are safe. I think if spawn times for the aliens were increased and if the aliens were made easier to spawn camp; then this would make moving around the marines and attacking the RTs a bad strategy for skulks, as they could easily be counter attacked. This way you wouldn't need turrets to cover every RT as by attacking the aliens you would also be preventing them from attacking your base.
I like to try and think of alternatives to sentry guns that could be more fun for both teams. For example, you could have an upgrade for the CC that put a gun on top that the commander has to manually control from within the CC. At least in this situation you are being killed by another player, rather than AI turrets. It all depends how good the commander is, how well he can defend the base.
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
edited October 2011
If you remove the static role of this game, then their wouldn't even be a need for a commander anymore. Thus, you'd have a bland same ole same ole 'FPS' game.
Remove turrets and i remove myself from the game. IMO this should have even more kinds of defences, like flamer turrets, missile turrets, or paralyzing traps in alien side...
<!--quoteo(post=1882168:date=Oct 26 2011, 12:14 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 26 2011, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Scythe, you don't need to have 24/7 defence at all your RTs just to make sure they are safe. I think if spawn times for the aliens were increased and if the aliens were made easier to spawn camp; then this would make moving around the marines and attacking the RTs a bad strategy for skulks, as they could easily be counter attacked. This way you wouldn't need turrets to cover every RT as by attacking the aliens you would also be preventing them from attacking your base.
I like to try and think of alternatives to sentry guns that could be more fun for both teams. For example, you could have an upgrade for the CC that put a gun on top that the commander has to manually control from within the CC. At least in this situation you are being killed by another player, rather than AI turrets. It all depends how good the commander is, how well he can defend the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want to make the game more fun for skulks by punishing them and increasing their spawn time, making it easier for marines to spawn camp? That seems counter-intuitive.
I would not mind seeing manually controlled turrets and watching how they turn out. One on the CC is a very good example. A manual turret would have to have limitations, so something like a CC which is tall and usually on a platform, could be limited by not being able to shoot low enough to defend itself from the short life forms. My big issue would be that limitations on a manual turret would be frustrating for the user, and that user would be wasting time when he could be personally defending the base or helping the front lines.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1882168:date=Oct 26 2011, 10:14 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 26 2011, 10:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like to try and think of alternatives to sentry guns that could be more fun for both teams. For example, you could have an upgrade for the CC that put a gun on top that the commander has to manually control from within the CC. At least in this situation you are being killed by another player, rather than AI turrets. It all depends how good the commander is, how well he can defend the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a fantastic idea! Each Command Station could be converted into a "bunker", to allow one Marine to fend off harassment until reinforcement arrives. Commanders would have a new defensive option, other than taking a gamble and jumping out, or beaconing the whole team back.
Firstly, sentries already have ammo. They will stop firing when they run out.
Secondly, and this is my idea(shamelessly ripped from another game) to fix the sentry spam in such a way that it makes them viable to hold off enemies long enough to give a significant advantage, but not long enough to cause stalemates.
Ok, when an alien gets close enough to a sentry, they fall over... with a physics effect, and then power down, the marines can prop the turret back up and get it to work again, or even carry the turret around(in a powered down state) if they want.
Perhaps if instead of a completely physics effect, when the sentry is meleed, the turret head simply "falls off" and dangles free, unable to aim, but can still fire if theres an alien in it's firing range.
Anyway, that would prevent sentry spam being overpowered, and also enable the onos to take out an entire room of sentries in one go without being overpowered(if the marines are coordinated enough, they can prop the turrets back up).
Obviously the turrets should still be destructible..
anyway, I don't mean to sound all awesome and everything, but I believe I have solved the sentry problem without using an original idea.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, when an alien gets close enough to a sentry, they fall over... with a physics effect, and then power down, the marines can prop the turret back up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol i actually like this, but should take a few bites to knock over so one skulk doesn't rush in there and take down a whole room instantly
<!--quoteo(post=1882267:date=Oct 27 2011, 04:34 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 27 2011, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you want to make the game more fun for skulks by punishing them and increasing their spawn time, making it easier for marines to spawn camp? That seems counter-intuitive<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't say that it would make it more fun for skulks. I want the game to be balanced. Currently I feel that the alien spawning is a big part of what makes them imbalanced (and part of what makes people feel the need to turret up every room on the map).
Imagine if instead of spawning at the IPs, all the dead marines just respawned randomly around marine start every 6 seconds. It would be very difficult for the aliens to push the base in the early game as the marines would just be spawning so frequently. That's currently what it's like with the aliens only even more frequently as there is no spawn time at all if the eggs are available.
It's very difficult to spawn camp the aliens and this makes their main hive alot less vulnerable than the marine base. Even if 2-3 marines get into the hive in the early game it's usually not a big deal because you can just respawn and kill them before they can deal any kind of damage. If they were able to prevent alien spawning a little easier then the hive would be more vulnerable to attack. Perhaps no change is needed here though as once the spawn times are increased then it should be easier to take the eggs out.
<!--quoteo(post=1882277:date=Oct 26 2011, 11:23 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 26 2011, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't say that it would make it more fun for skulks. I want the game to be balanced. Currently I feel that the alien spawning is a big part of what makes them imbalanced (and part of what makes people feel the need to turret up every room on the map).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was reading it as the imbalance = unfun, just a general game statement. The aliens (primarily skulks) are having issues with RT chomping/turrets, so by balancing that, you'd have the roundabout goal of making it more fun to play as a skulk.
Yep, which is why my idea, of having all aliens able to disable turrets with one or two attacks could help with the balance, a single skulk on their own, or maybe even two skulks could be held off by a single turret long enough for a marine to come in and secure the area again. But if the turret is on it's own, the aliens can rush in, knock the turrets out, and then proceed to disable power or completely destroy the turrets.
Also an onos stomp would assumedly take out all the turrets instantly(oh right, I already said that lol)and semi permanently until the marines prop them back up.
I'd just like to note that I'd rather have the turrets not actually fall over with physics, but have the head fall off and dangle with what is most likely a predetermined animations, probably make it easier for the devs too.
ya and hey while were on that train of thought tim - lets just get rid of all the annoyingly complex maps and play in a big box so we don't have to spend so much time trying to find each other.
<!--quoteo(post=1882132:date=Oct 26 2011, 05:08 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Oct 26 2011, 05:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only alternative to static defences is some kind of teleporty widget that warps players from elsewhere on the map to the point of enemy contact. You can't have an RTS with buildings without some means of protecting your buildings. Either static defense or units. Since units in NS are human players, nobody's going to want to sit and stare at an RT all game on the off chance it gets attacked.
And increasing the health of buildings is untenable; it's already laborious enough to take down an undefended RT as a skulk.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes... If only players had some structure that would allow them to traverse the map quickly to respond to enemy attacks and some way to keep tabs on the other team...
I'm a fan of knocking over turrets, but they do represent a resources upgrade that should be a little harder to knock down. How about if, instead of going down to any melee combat, you've got to have some sort of high energy impact? So, a skulk Leaping into one would knock it over, a fade Stabbing one might knock it down, and... well, an Onos should knock them down with a basic attack :) But that still gives several life forms the ability to disable the turret without making them next to useless.
<!--quoteo(post=1882635:date=Oct 29 2011, 03:14 PM:name=Shalfa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shalfa @ Oct 29 2011, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What everyone seems to mean is that if you remove static defence, this game would be more like CoD with diffrent "races".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that probably says something about the game, doesn't it?
<!--quoteo(post=1882684:date=Oct 29 2011, 10:14 PM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Oct 29 2011, 10:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that probably says something about the game, doesn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really, any RTS is the same thing - bunch of races, classes (unit type), and upgrades. The gameplay FOCUSES on getting all the "unlocks" in your tech tree every game. Heck, most of 'em have the nukes the CoD seems to have a reputation for.
<!--quoteo(post=1882787:date=Oct 30 2011, 09:55 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 30 2011, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not really, any RTS is the same thing - bunch of races, classes (unit type), and upgrades. The gameplay FOCUSES on getting all the "unlocks" in your tech tree every game. Heck, most of 'em have the nukes the CoD seems to have a reputation for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the gameplay in an rts focuses on strategy. NS mixes the skill of a first person shooter in while keeping much of this strategy.
by removing a whopping two units (sentries, hydras), you have essentially turned the game into a meaningless cod game where the commander just goes down the tech tree and resupplies his units, almost entirely void of strategy.
if you removed cannons, bunkers, and sunkens for example from starcraft it would just throw off the balance, not create a game with a lack of strategy.
/me ragejoins AAAARG, why the %#$*& are you guys still finding things to ARGUE about... geez, ffs, wtf is wrong with you. Stop replying to comments, disecting them, and saying everything that's wrong with them... rather, say what's right with them and WHERE THEY CAN BE MADE BETTER....
Anyway, The sentry knock over thing has already been discussed a bit, and from the replies I got back, I think this is the best option SO FAR:
Instead of a full physics knock over, sentries get dislodged from their holder, dangle, and are disabled(they play a jittering, sparking effect until a marine puts them right, or a mac). This would make it easier to implement(requiring a quick animation), and prevent trolling.
As for hydras, theyre fine as they are now. They tend not to kill marines instantly after sitting in front of them for half a second.
So, to knock a sentry over, it will take two consecutive bites from a skulk(to keep it simple, have the game just count if the last bite that skulk did was on that sentry, rather than a complicated timer method, or whatever, if the skulk leaps away, that also voids the bites, just walking doesnt void bites).
The onos can also knock sentries over with a stomp.
And a fade can knock over a sentry with two swipes.
The lerk and gorge can not knock over sentries, the gorge can still bile bomb from a distance though, as can the lerk blast away with spikes to damage them.
So basically, the sentry will receive a huge balance boost while retaining their core functionality: holding off aliens to prevent small rushes into bases while also being able to support marines in a base defense.
Hmm, I spose I should mention, I am against removing sentries.
<!--quoteo(post=1882793:date=Oct 31 2011, 07:58 AM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Oct 31 2011, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, to knock a sentry over, it will take two consecutive bites from a skulk(to keep it simple, have the game just count if the last bite that skulk did was on that sentry, rather than a complicated timer method, or whatever, if the skulk leaps away, that also voids the bites, just walking doesnt void bites).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the worst idea I have read. What's the point in giving the turret HP if you're going to knock it over so easily. They're fine as they are.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
I find the Sentry accuracy penalty (when taking damage) to be quite inconsistent. Sometimes I can shoot at a Sentry (as Lerk or Gorge), and cause it to miss me 90% of the time. Other times, most of the bullets still hit me.
If this mechanism works more consistently, aliens would be able to slowly wear sentry farms down more easily.
Alternatively, change Sentry to become disable when badly damaged (<50% health), to encourage aliens to attack other more important structures, and give Marines a chance to repair their defenses (Sentries) faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1882823:date=Oct 31 2011, 03:08 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 31 2011, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the worst idea I have read. What's the point in giving the turret HP if you're going to knock it over so easily. They're fine as they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there are is a sentry, and it is on it's own, a skulk can run in, disable it with two bites, and move on to attack the power node in an area.
If there is a marine, the marine can take out the skulk, and prop the sentry back up.
If the sentry is guarded by a marine, the marine is also guarded by the sentry. But if there is just a sentry, it is vulnerable. This means any area the marine team wants to lock down with sentries, will also require the marine team to move one or two marines to that area to make sure the aliens don't knock all the turrets over.
SO, this fixes the problem where the aliens are locked off from all entrances by sentries, while allowing the marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive.
Is it still the worst idea you have ever read? Or do you see how useful it could be. Thanks for your negative feedback, next time, please provide positive feedback.
So this is to prevent areas of turret spam simply to lock that area off, turrets are a support/temporary defense, the real protection comes from marines.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1883223:date=Nov 2 2011, 12:54 PM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Nov 2 2011, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there are is a sentry, and it is on it's own, a skulk can run in, disable it with two bites, and move on to attack the power node in an area.
If there is a marine, the marine can take out the skulk, and prop the sentry back up.
If the sentry is guarded by a marine, the marine is also guarded by the sentry. But if there is just a sentry, it is vulnerable. This means any area the marine team wants to lock down with sentries, will also require the marine team to move one or two marines to that area to make sure the aliens don't knock all the turrets over.
SO, this fixes the problem where the aliens are locked off from all entrances by sentries, while allowing the marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive.
Is it still the worst idea you have ever read? Or do you see how useful it could be. Thanks for your negative feedback, next time, please provide positive feedback.
So this is to prevent areas of turret spam simply to lock that area off, turrets are a support/temporary defense, the real protection comes from marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the purpose of the sentry if it still needs a marine stand next to it? How does the turret allow marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive if some marines need to be defending the base because the turrets can be knocked over by a signle skulk?
Comments
If a forward base is that important then there needs to be players there to support it, and I'm not just talking about playing repairman.
-Make the sentries require ammo that must be run to it from the turret factories. This would make the amount of effective turrets a function of its supporting players, and the skill of aliens to shut down ammo runners.
-Make hydras last for a limited period of time. This would make the amount of effective hydras a function of mobile gorges who are supporting multiple areas of the map, and the skill of marines to hunt down gorges.
This would create a limit to the amount of defenses possible to support, and if everyone is focused on supporting defenses then they surely aren't attacking the enemy team-> this forces a forward progression for the attacking team and a no win for the stagnant defender.
Just because the player base and the devs didn't agree with you, don't mean you should then try to back track on what you were requesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course I was hoping the majority of players agree with me. I didn't know if they would or not. I am genuinely interested in the purpose of static defence in the game and if there is an alternative and I was expressing my frustration caused by them. I'm not back tracking. It'd be great if they were removed, but I didn't expect UW to do so, even if many people agreed with me. All I can hope for is that they understand some people are frustrated with turrets etc. and try and downplay their role in the game.
@Scythe, you don't need to have 24/7 defence at all your RTs just to make sure they are safe. I think if spawn times for the aliens were increased and if the aliens were made easier to spawn camp; then this would make moving around the marines and attacking the RTs a bad strategy for skulks, as they could easily be counter attacked. This way you wouldn't need turrets to cover every RT as by attacking the aliens you would also be preventing them from attacking your base.
I like to try and think of alternatives to sentry guns that could be more fun for both teams. For example, you could have an upgrade for the CC that put a gun on top that the commander has to manually control from within the CC. At least in this situation you are being killed by another player, rather than AI turrets. It all depends how good the commander is, how well he can defend the base.
I like to try and think of alternatives to sentry guns that could be more fun for both teams. For example, you could have an upgrade for the CC that put a gun on top that the commander has to manually control from within the CC. At least in this situation you are being killed by another player, rather than AI turrets. It all depends how good the commander is, how well he can defend the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want to make the game more fun for skulks by punishing them and increasing their spawn time, making it easier for marines to spawn camp? That seems counter-intuitive.
I would not mind seeing manually controlled turrets and watching how they turn out. One on the CC is a very good example. A manual turret would have to have limitations, so something like a CC which is tall and usually on a platform, could be limited by not being able to shoot low enough to defend itself from the short life forms. My big issue would be that limitations on a manual turret would be frustrating for the user, and that user would be wasting time when he could be personally defending the base or helping the front lines.
That's a fantastic idea! Each Command Station could be converted into a "bunker", to allow one Marine to fend off harassment until reinforcement arrives. Commanders would have a new defensive option, other than taking a gamble and jumping out, or beaconing the whole team back.
Firstly, sentries already have ammo. They will stop firing when they run out.
Secondly, and this is my idea(shamelessly ripped from another game) to fix the sentry spam in such a way that it makes them viable to hold off enemies long enough to give a significant advantage, but not long enough to cause stalemates.
Ok, when an alien gets close enough to a sentry, they fall over... with a physics effect, and then power down, the marines can prop the turret back up and get it to work again, or even carry the turret around(in a powered down state) if they want.
Perhaps if instead of a completely physics effect, when the sentry is meleed, the turret head simply "falls off" and dangles free, unable to aim, but can still fire if theres an alien in it's firing range.
Anyway, that would prevent sentry spam being overpowered, and also enable the onos to take out an entire room of sentries in one go without being overpowered(if the marines are coordinated enough, they can prop the turrets back up).
Obviously the turrets should still be destructible..
anyway, I don't mean to sound all awesome and everything, but I believe I have solved the sentry problem without using an original idea.
lol i actually like this, but should take a few bites to knock over so one skulk doesn't rush in there and take down a whole room instantly
I didn't say that it would make it more fun for skulks. I want the game to be balanced. Currently I feel that the alien spawning is a big part of what makes them imbalanced (and part of what makes people feel the need to turret up every room on the map).
Imagine if instead of spawning at the IPs, all the dead marines just respawned randomly around marine start every 6 seconds. It would be very difficult for the aliens to push the base in the early game as the marines would just be spawning so frequently. That's currently what it's like with the aliens only even more frequently as there is no spawn time at all if the eggs are available.
It's very difficult to spawn camp the aliens and this makes their main hive alot less vulnerable than the marine base. Even if 2-3 marines get into the hive in the early game it's usually not a big deal because you can just respawn and kill them before they can deal any kind of damage. If they were able to prevent alien spawning a little easier then the hive would be more vulnerable to attack. Perhaps no change is needed here though as once the spawn times are increased then it should be easier to take the eggs out.
I was reading it as the imbalance = unfun, just a general game statement. The aliens (primarily skulks) are having issues with RT chomping/turrets, so by balancing that, you'd have the roundabout goal of making it more fun to play as a skulk.
Also an onos stomp would assumedly take out all the turrets instantly(oh right, I already said that lol)and semi permanently until the marines prop them back up.
I'd just like to note that I'd rather have the turrets not actually fall over with physics, but have the head fall off and dangle with what is most likely a predetermined animations, probably make it easier for the devs too.
..... srry sometimes everyone's a troll...
And increasing the health of buildings is untenable; it's already laborious enough to take down an undefended RT as a skulk.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes... If only players had some structure that would allow them to traverse the map quickly to respond to enemy attacks and some way to keep tabs on the other team...
that probably says something about the game, doesn't it?
Not really, any RTS is the same thing - bunch of races, classes (unit type), and upgrades. The gameplay FOCUSES on getting all the "unlocks" in your tech tree every game. Heck, most of 'em have the nukes the CoD seems to have a reputation for.
the gameplay in an rts focuses on strategy. NS mixes the skill of a first person shooter in while keeping much of this strategy.
by removing a whopping two units (sentries, hydras), you have essentially turned the game into a meaningless cod game where the commander just goes down the tech tree and resupplies his units, almost entirely void of strategy.
if you removed cannons, bunkers, and sunkens for example from starcraft it would just throw off the balance, not create a game with a lack of strategy.
Anyway, The sentry knock over thing has already been discussed a bit, and from the replies I got back, I think this is the best option SO FAR:
Instead of a full physics knock over, sentries get dislodged from their holder, dangle, and are disabled(they play a jittering, sparking effect until a marine puts them right, or a mac). This would make it easier to implement(requiring a quick animation), and prevent trolling.
As for hydras, theyre fine as they are now. They tend not to kill marines instantly after sitting in front of them for half a second.
So, to knock a sentry over, it will take two consecutive bites from a skulk(to keep it simple, have the game just count if the last bite that skulk did was on that sentry, rather than a complicated timer method, or whatever, if the skulk leaps away, that also voids the bites, just walking doesnt void bites).
The onos can also knock sentries over with a stomp.
And a fade can knock over a sentry with two swipes.
The lerk and gorge can not knock over sentries, the gorge can still bile bomb from a distance though, as can the lerk blast away with spikes to damage them.
So basically, the sentry will receive a huge balance boost while retaining their core functionality: holding off aliens to prevent small rushes into bases while also being able to support marines in a base defense.
Hmm, I spose I should mention, I am against removing sentries.
That's the worst idea I have read. What's the point in giving the turret HP if you're going to knock it over so easily. They're fine as they are.
If this mechanism works more consistently, aliens would be able to slowly wear sentry farms down more easily.
Alternatively, change Sentry to become disable when badly damaged (<50% health), to encourage aliens to attack other more important structures, and give Marines a chance to repair their defenses (Sentries) faster.
If there are is a sentry, and it is on it's own, a skulk can run in, disable it with two bites, and move on to attack the power node in an area.
If there is a marine, the marine can take out the skulk, and prop the sentry back up.
If the sentry is guarded by a marine, the marine is also guarded by the sentry. But if there is just a sentry, it is vulnerable. This means any area the marine team wants to lock down with sentries, will also require the marine team to move one or two marines to that area to make sure the aliens don't knock all the turrets over.
SO, this fixes the problem where the aliens are locked off from all entrances by sentries, while allowing the marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive.
Is it still the worst idea you have ever read? Or do you see how useful it could be. Thanks for your negative feedback, next time, please provide positive feedback.
So this is to prevent areas of turret spam simply to lock that area off, turrets are a support/temporary defense, the real protection comes from marines.
If there is a marine, the marine can take out the skulk, and prop the sentry back up.
If the sentry is guarded by a marine, the marine is also guarded by the sentry. But if there is just a sentry, it is vulnerable. This means any area the marine team wants to lock down with sentries, will also require the marine team to move one or two marines to that area to make sure the aliens don't knock all the turrets over.
SO, this fixes the problem where the aliens are locked off from all entrances by sentries, while allowing the marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive.
Is it still the worst idea you have ever read? Or do you see how useful it could be. Thanks for your negative feedback, next time, please provide positive feedback.
So this is to prevent areas of turret spam simply to lock that area off, turrets are a support/temporary defense, the real protection comes from marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the purpose of the sentry if it still needs a marine stand next to it?
How does the turret allow marines to do a concentrated push onto a hive if some marines need to be defending the base because the turrets can be knocked over by a signle skulk?