ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1885921:date=Nov 21 2011, 09:51 AM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 21 2011, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885921"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thats how the balance mod has it right now 1 second delay to blink AFTER Exit instead of after entering phase
they also made RoF faster but less dmg per swipe.. everything to discourage the blink 1 hit blink idea
they upped the hp to compensate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Making it much more difficult to kill fades in the process. On a normal server I can 2shot fades solo with a shotgun, even kill them with rifles. On balance mod servers it takes me 3shots (4 if they have the slow heal on from frenzy after killing a bad team mate), absolutely unreasonable.
I find fades a bit boring to play, the main skill required is to avoid to get stuck on tiny map geometry. The blink-in delay made things worse, before you could do some funny blink patterns to confuse the marines, now it's really straightforward, blink-in, swipe, blink-out, repeat.
I still think you should be able to counter fades more effectively at tier 2 for Marines.
The issue is that if you say 'wait for jetpack and exo' then they will turn into the Marine equivalent of Aliens rushing to have a second hive as in current builds.
Exo will no doubt be tier 3, therefore everyone will be looking to research the jetpack to counter.
Another big issue is that Marines are more effective in groups vs similar sized groups of aliens - competitively speaking.
Things seem to be being balanced on this fact, that Marine gameplay is all about 'teamplay' where as Aliens is more about going solo.
The problem is that it is actually easier to play as a team as aliens for several reasons.
- You can see where your team mates are through walls and if they are getting hurt - You then have a perception of where the front line is, because you can see the outer limits of how far a fellow player has travelled. - If a player is all the way down the left hand side of the map, you can tell that with a low percetage of error that it is unlikely for there to be a marine between you and that player, so you can safely run through the level
Where as in NS1 the fade could always be shot. Now you can blink, which is especially useful when greades come at you.
I think the fade should be nerfed in its health/armour BUT should be given a BETTER secondary attack - which effects GROUPS of enemies and should be about preventing stalemates at the end of the game.
Some sort of whirlwind style blink attack that used up all your energy would be appropriate. Or whatever works best.
<!--quoteo(post=1885926:date=Nov 21 2011, 01:31 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Nov 21 2011, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think you should be able to counter fades more effectively at tier 2 for Marines.
The issue is that if you say 'wait for jetpack and exo' then they will turn into the Marine equivalent of Aliens rushing to have a second hive as in current builds.
Exo will no doubt be tier 3, therefore everyone will be looking to research the jetpack to counter.
Another big issue is that Marines are more effective in groups vs similar sized groups of aliens - competitively speaking.
Things seem to be being balanced on this fact, that Marine gameplay is all about 'teamplay' where as Aliens is more about going solo.
The problem is that it is actually easier to play as a team as aliens for several reasons.
- You can see where your team mates are through walls and if they are getting hurt - You then have a perception of where the front line is, because you can see the outer limits of how far a fellow player has travelled. - If a player is all the way down the left hand side of the map, you can tell that with a low percetage of error that it is unlikely for there to be a marine between you and that player, so you can safely run through the level
Where as in NS1 the fade could always be shot. Now you can blink, which is especially useful when greades come at you.
I think the fade should be nerfed in its health/armour BUT should be given a BETTER secondary attack - which effects GROUPS of enemies and should be about preventing stalemates at the end of the game.
Some sort of whirlwind style blink attack that used up all your energy would be appropriate. Or whatever works best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I can say is.... drop that ###### you are smoking right now.
Actually I could say more but I'm on good behavior today.
<!--quoteo(post=1885925:date=Nov 21 2011, 12:57 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 21 2011, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find fades a bit boring to play, the main skill required is to avoid to get stuck on tiny map geometry. The blink-in delay made things worse, before you could do some funny blink patterns to confuse the marines, now it's really straightforward, blink-in, swipe, blink-out, repeat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would imagine that will eventually be implemented to the game at some point again but with some restrictions. The way it was before kind of made it too funny.
<!--quoteo(post=1885926:date=Nov 21 2011, 11:31 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Nov 21 2011, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the fade should be nerfed in its health/armour BUT should be given a BETTER secondary attack - which effects GROUPS of enemies and should be about preventing stalemates at the end of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think the HP thingy is the way to go. Fade is already pretty fragile once someone hits it - especially considering it's supposed to be quite an expensive lifeform. Making it even more fragile would restrict fade to a very stalkerish alien that relies only on marines being alone. Meanwhile any actual team fight would be totally out of fade's possibilities unless it can somehow rely on marines being completely distracted.
I think the blink needs to change. It needs to be somehow more skill intense and stable rather than fade hoping that marines don't score snap hits on it.
Right now my favourite idea is to create a NS1/NS2 blink hybrid where fade can go ethereal for a brief period of time to gain speed and avoid marine fire, but it would also have to rely a lot more on NS1 styled visible aerial diving. This would probably be achieved by increasing the ethereal blink cost, but making it preserve the speed and direction once you reappear. After that adjust the midair and ethereal movement so that fade can actually perform precise movement with given means.
Edit: Heh yeh, just realized this is actually a HMG thread. It might be a good idea to get some fade thread going on again.
Comments
1 second delay to blink AFTER Exit instead of after entering phase
they also made RoF faster but less dmg per swipe.. everything to discourage the blink 1 hit blink idea
they upped the hp to compensate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making it much more difficult to kill fades in the process. On a normal server I can 2shot fades solo with a shotgun, even kill them with rifles. On balance mod servers it takes me 3shots (4 if they have the slow heal on from frenzy after killing a bad team mate), absolutely unreasonable.
The issue is that if you say 'wait for jetpack and exo' then they will turn into the Marine equivalent of Aliens rushing to have a second hive as in current builds.
Exo will no doubt be tier 3, therefore everyone will be looking to research the jetpack to counter.
Another big issue is that Marines are more effective in groups vs similar sized groups of aliens - competitively speaking.
Things seem to be being balanced on this fact, that Marine gameplay is all about 'teamplay' where as Aliens is more about going solo.
The problem is that it is actually easier to play as a team as aliens for several reasons.
- You can see where your team mates are through walls and if they are getting hurt
- You then have a perception of where the front line is, because you can see the outer limits of how far a fellow player has travelled.
- If a player is all the way down the left hand side of the map, you can tell that with a low percetage of error that it is unlikely for there to be a marine between you and that player, so you can safely run through the level
Where as in NS1 the fade could always be shot. Now you can blink, which is especially useful when greades come at you.
I think the fade should be nerfed in its health/armour BUT should be given a BETTER secondary attack - which effects GROUPS of enemies and should be about preventing stalemates at the end of the game.
Some sort of whirlwind style blink attack that used up all your energy would be appropriate. Or whatever works best.
The issue is that if you say 'wait for jetpack and exo' then they will turn into the Marine equivalent of Aliens rushing to have a second hive as in current builds.
Exo will no doubt be tier 3, therefore everyone will be looking to research the jetpack to counter.
Another big issue is that Marines are more effective in groups vs similar sized groups of aliens - competitively speaking.
Things seem to be being balanced on this fact, that Marine gameplay is all about 'teamplay' where as Aliens is more about going solo.
The problem is that it is actually easier to play as a team as aliens for several reasons.
- You can see where your team mates are through walls and if they are getting hurt
- You then have a perception of where the front line is, because you can see the outer limits of how far a fellow player has travelled.
- If a player is all the way down the left hand side of the map, you can tell that with a low percetage of error that it is unlikely for there to be a marine between you and that player, so you can safely run through the level
Where as in NS1 the fade could always be shot. Now you can blink, which is especially useful when greades come at you.
I think the fade should be nerfed in its health/armour BUT should be given a BETTER secondary attack - which effects GROUPS of enemies and should be about preventing stalemates at the end of the game.
Some sort of whirlwind style blink attack that used up all your energy would be appropriate. Or whatever works best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I can say is.... drop that ###### you are smoking right now.
Actually I could say more but I'm on good behavior today.
I would imagine that will eventually be implemented to the game at some point again but with some restrictions. The way it was before kind of made it too funny.
I don't think the HP thingy is the way to go. Fade is already pretty fragile once someone hits it - especially considering it's supposed to be quite an expensive lifeform. Making it even more fragile would restrict fade to a very stalkerish alien that relies only on marines being alone. Meanwhile any actual team fight would be totally out of fade's possibilities unless it can somehow rely on marines being completely distracted.
I think the blink needs to change. It needs to be somehow more skill intense and stable rather than fade hoping that marines don't score snap hits on it.
Right now my favourite idea is to create a NS1/NS2 blink hybrid where fade can go ethereal for a brief period of time to gain speed and avoid marine fire, but it would also have to rely a lot more on NS1 styled visible aerial diving. This would probably be achieved by increasing the ethereal blink cost, but making it preserve the speed and direction once you reappear. After that adjust the midair and ethereal movement so that fade can actually perform precise movement with given means.
Edit: Heh yeh, just realized this is actually a HMG thread. It might be a good idea to get some fade thread going on again.