New Power Grid System
Ironsoul
Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Goal: Make the entire power node type deal.. work.</div>Hey guys, You may remember my TL;DR idea many months ago on power nodes. I thought I would create a new topic rather than ressurect that one again because people are obviously offput by something. I have a new and improved idea to be discussed and I will take less time to do it.
Note: this system essentially completely reworks how power nodes works.
<u><b>I'd like to start by describing the main changes this idea does.</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First up, I want to introduce a new resource: power.
Power is essentially a stored charge of electrons, similar to how a battery stores electricity.
Secondly, I want to introduce a new Structure: Battery
These can use the existing power pack model, or a new model.
The battery is an automatically spawning and despawning(recycling sorta deal, but without the res) structure that holds POWER.
Each battery can hold 50 power(subject to change)
Thirdly, and finally, I want to make some serious modifications to power nodes.
-They use the current socket style.
-They can be carried by marines, and plugged into a socket, rather than dropped by commander.
-They are aquired from a command station(it has them stuck to the side, ready for a marine).
-Once a marine plugs it into the socket, it is already at 100% and working.
-They can be disabled by an alien after taking 10% damage(the socket takes the damage).
-A marine can reactivate the node by repairing 10% of the damage(regardless of the nodes current condition)
-- once a node is destroyed, it's destroyed, like other structures, leaving an empty socket, requiring a new node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>Ok, so that's the basic idea. Now I want to describe how it's used in game.</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Structures(turrets, armoury, resource towers, infantry portals, command stations etc) consume power at a structure specific rate per minute.
Power nodes gather power at a specific rate per minute.
Excess power is stored in batteries, which automatically spawn near command stations as more batteries get filled up.
If there is less power being harvested, meaning there is more power consumption, than power generation: The batteries begin to drain, one by one.
If there is barely enough power being generated(like if there is one power node): all non major structures shut down, and anything else that can still function, will function.(Keeps ips going, shuts down turrets).
If there is no power(all batteries and nodes destroyed). All structures shut down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>Finally: What function this new/modified system serves in the game:</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This performs four major actions:
It allows the aliens to disable marine defenses, without having to run up and bite them directly. Running head first into turrets is never fun, especially when they have been set up to cover each other.
Aliens can take out power nodes outside the main marine base, and still be working towards taking down that base(no more end game stalemates on marine side).
Batteries being a real world asset in the game allows aliens to destroy these physically, preventing huge stockpiles of power that the aliens can't do anything about.
It allows the marines to stay in the fight provided they are working well together: They can resocket power nodes quickly. They have battery reserves to hold the aliens back just that little bit longer.
And finally, most importantly, it fixes turret spam: If you need to power each and every turret, the developers don't need to put any static limit on sentries, the power system takes care of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please post your comments, suggestions, and negativity(with suggestions) however you wish. You may even want to start a new thread if this idea starts up another idea in your head.
For those who CBF reading this: (aka TL;DR)
This new system adds in the ability for skulks to disable, rather than fully destroy power nodes in just a few bits.
Adds in a new battery that stores excess(unused potential) charge near the command station the commander is in.
Changes the power grid system to enable structures to work anywhere provided there is sufficient power available.
Changes power nodes so marines can physically plonk a power node into an empty socket(if the power node has been destroyed(destroyed, not disabled), or if round has just begun).
Note: this system essentially completely reworks how power nodes works.
<u><b>I'd like to start by describing the main changes this idea does.</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First up, I want to introduce a new resource: power.
Power is essentially a stored charge of electrons, similar to how a battery stores electricity.
Secondly, I want to introduce a new Structure: Battery
These can use the existing power pack model, or a new model.
The battery is an automatically spawning and despawning(recycling sorta deal, but without the res) structure that holds POWER.
Each battery can hold 50 power(subject to change)
Thirdly, and finally, I want to make some serious modifications to power nodes.
-They use the current socket style.
-They can be carried by marines, and plugged into a socket, rather than dropped by commander.
-They are aquired from a command station(it has them stuck to the side, ready for a marine).
-Once a marine plugs it into the socket, it is already at 100% and working.
-They can be disabled by an alien after taking 10% damage(the socket takes the damage).
-A marine can reactivate the node by repairing 10% of the damage(regardless of the nodes current condition)
-- once a node is destroyed, it's destroyed, like other structures, leaving an empty socket, requiring a new node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>Ok, so that's the basic idea. Now I want to describe how it's used in game.</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Structures(turrets, armoury, resource towers, infantry portals, command stations etc) consume power at a structure specific rate per minute.
Power nodes gather power at a specific rate per minute.
Excess power is stored in batteries, which automatically spawn near command stations as more batteries get filled up.
If there is less power being harvested, meaning there is more power consumption, than power generation: The batteries begin to drain, one by one.
If there is barely enough power being generated(like if there is one power node): all non major structures shut down, and anything else that can still function, will function.(Keeps ips going, shuts down turrets).
If there is no power(all batteries and nodes destroyed). All structures shut down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>Finally: What function this new/modified system serves in the game:</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This performs four major actions:
It allows the aliens to disable marine defenses, without having to run up and bite them directly. Running head first into turrets is never fun, especially when they have been set up to cover each other.
Aliens can take out power nodes outside the main marine base, and still be working towards taking down that base(no more end game stalemates on marine side).
Batteries being a real world asset in the game allows aliens to destroy these physically, preventing huge stockpiles of power that the aliens can't do anything about.
It allows the marines to stay in the fight provided they are working well together: They can resocket power nodes quickly. They have battery reserves to hold the aliens back just that little bit longer.
And finally, most importantly, it fixes turret spam: If you need to power each and every turret, the developers don't need to put any static limit on sentries, the power system takes care of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please post your comments, suggestions, and negativity(with suggestions) however you wish. You may even want to start a new thread if this idea starts up another idea in your head.
For those who CBF reading this: (aka TL;DR)
This new system adds in the ability for skulks to disable, rather than fully destroy power nodes in just a few bits.
Adds in a new battery that stores excess(unused potential) charge near the command station the commander is in.
Changes the power grid system to enable structures to work anywhere provided there is sufficient power available.
Changes power nodes so marines can physically plonk a power node into an empty socket(if the power node has been destroyed(destroyed, not disabled), or if round has just begun).
Comments
Having power nodes instead of being carried by marines, they work just like a mac, even flying, and the commander sends them off to a socket, and the marines have to escort the node.
Well, that's it for now really. There are a few more ideas about how power nodes are transported to the socket, but having them work the same as macs(in terms of movement a.i. not movement speed) seems the simplest way. For both gameplay purposes as well as coding reasons.
Rines when dead what happens to the battery? lost or can it be picked up?
How effective will it be in small-large games?
Basically the commander already does pretty much everything and doing maths in game to calculate how much power he has to what he needs, while directing battles, building, reasearching etc will really be a pain in the ass.
The reason turrets are built in early game is to stop the lone skulks from killing the ips/power etc when we have rines attacking and defending res nodes. Will this system compromise that vital early/mid game defense from those threats?
If a marine is carrying a battery, and dies, it would drop just like a weapon. // although a marine doesn't have to trade a weapon for a battery.
Small games? It would certainly speed up small games, because you only have to do 10% damage to take out a power node(stop it from functioning).
Large games? It would prevent that annoying late game turret spam that makes the games go for 25 minutes longer than they should.
<b>I suppose this new system is to encourage the marines to attack and hold areas with power nodes, without punishing them too much for losing a node(battery backup).</b>
I wonder how it would work with the onos, jetpack, exo suit and hmg implemented.
-B1ackSmoke
This power grid would need to have some very fine balance to it otherwise if it is off by 1 part, the whole game could be thrown.
I see this as ending games that aren't meant to last 2 hours long.
As of now I have played very few games that were 2 hours+ and worth playing because everyone stayed in the server and kept a constant flow of action/effort.
-B1acksmoke
Perhaps it could even dynamically change if the game sizes change, who knows.
The other way around actually, we need to get rid of the energy costs, and make them cost resources.
Making the power grid as complicated as this is uninituitive and will become very gimmicky after the first few times replacing a node.
I think the current power grid system works as it should(except for the current bugs), but slows the gameplay down, more stuff to +use before moving on.
Cool idea, but I don't think it will be that great in game.
No, it would be easy from a coding perspective to make a new resource pool.
But bad from a gameplay perspective, not adding anything but unnessesary complexity to the game.
But the rest of your idea seems like a huge challenge from a coding perspective.
So your idea of playtesting the idea for a single build, just to maybe scrap it again in the next build, would be time wasted.
Power nodes use the same code as drifters, they can float over to a socket, and go into them.
Batteries use the same spawning code as eggs, especially for positioning.
Changing structures to use a power system still isn't all that hard(correct me if I'm wrong UWE).
All they need to do, is change structures so they have a consumption rate, and a priority level.
With those two new things in place, the consumption rate can be fed into the power grid system code to cause the loop that drains and adds power to update accordingly.
The priority level will simply be used to shut down all non essential structures such as turrets, until a threshhold of reserve power is met(50 for example), then reactivate them.
I estimate that could be done in... 500 lines of code? I'm not a professional programmer so I wouldn't really know.
But it's not a HUGE challenge, unlike something like... a new animation system, or atmospherics.
Power nodes use the same code as drifters, they can float over to a socket, and go into them.
Batteries use the same spawning code as eggs, especially for positioning.
Changing structures to use a power system still isn't all that hard(correct me if I'm wrong UWE).
All they need to do, is change structures so they have a consumption rate, and a priority level.
With those two new things in place, the consumption rate can be fed into the power grid system code to cause the loop that drains and adds power to update accordingly.
The priority level will simply be used to shut down all non essential structures such as turrets, until a threshhold of reserve power is met(50 for example), then reactivate them.
I estimate that could be done in... 500 lines of code? I'm not a professional programmer so I wouldn't really know.
But it's not a HUGE challenge, unlike something like... a new animation system, or atmospherics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my point still stands.
It adds an unnessesary resource; "power".
We already have one kind of unnessesary resource; energy.
And writing 500 lines of code that you later would just remove again, would still be time wasted.
I think it would be alot better to focus the game around what it is actually about; Resources and tech.
swalk, you want the game to be better, yet you dismiss all, if not most ideas that strive to do just that.
swalk, you want the game to be better, yet you dismiss all, if not most ideas that strive to do just that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't dismiss ideas that I think are good for the game.
I'm just telling you my honest opinion.
My modification/enhancement to the power grid idea, is not necessarily finished. But it doesn't make the game as complex as you think it would. From the reactions about complexity, I would think you thought I'm trying to introduce a live programming language into the game, that forces players to hack a visual basic interface just to reroute power to the sensors or something.
Playing as a marine is boring, playing as a commander is boring. Balancing the game by simplifying isn't going to fix that. Overcomplicating the game isn't going to fix that either. But if you really can't handle any more than 1 major resource... wow. Don't get me wrong, I can sort of understand why you(to anyone saying this idea is too complicated) are saying this... but flat out trying to shut down an idea just because you don't get it? I can't accept that.
This is one of the major reasons why I hate forums for idea discussion, there is no flow of ideas, it's not like what you get in a person to person, or even online live chat conversation. Forum: Idea presented - most of the time, it's rejected, or accepted plainly. Live chat: questions asked, modifications made, reasons explained.
To make things worse with forum conversation, if I tried to preemptively answer any and all possible questions, or explain everything, the majority of you would go TL;DR.
It's wrong. I read somewhere "wrong is evil and should be defeated"... just saying.
Now, in NS2, the game basically plays around Tres, which feels very linear to me. I don't know... maybe my RTS background is nudging me towards thinking that including a second resource (at least for one team) might add some desirable complexity to the game. The idea that Ironsoul is proposing IS elegant in that it ties in directly with features that are already hotly debated (building energy, power nodes) and gives them foundation in the game's resource system. I think this change would really win some points for NS2 in the RTS department.
Plus, stacking Observatories in the corner of a marine base to increase energy for Distress Beacon doesn't seem quite right. Charging the team Tres seems like it would be a better solution (as discussed in another thread), but really, I think that tying some abilities into a different global resource pool might be the best way to go.
Also, power nodes would become like another kind of resource tower, in effect. And, the more lit the map is, the more control the marine team has through global abilities.
+1
Taking down powernode will depower the entire room
Suggested:
Taking down powernode has similar effect as... taking down a res node.. ie less impact
old: Hard to do sneak bases (must always power the nearby node)
Suggested:
Able to drop and build structures anywhere?
Also, how does this new power system tie in with the current atmospherics/lightings behind unpowered/powered/just taken down areas?
Btw, if buildings (esp turrets) cost resources to maintain, don't you think it would have resolved the turtle issue in a similar way to what you are proposing?
ogz: your interpretation of my idea "Taking down power node has less impact" is not true. Taking down a power node has MORE impact, but in a less instantaneous manner.
As for the second interpretation, yes, this idea would enable marines to drop structures anywhere. Perhaps we could add in a complex system of increasing cost based on distance from powernodes, but the simple answer to your comment is. Yes, you can drop structures anywhere, but you still can't spam them considering the fact that all structures would cost power, some more than others.
____________________________________________
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, how does this new power system tie in with the current atmospherics/lightings behind unpowered/powered/just taken down areas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I felt like quoting. Well, the new system means that aliens deal 10% damage(in a row) to shut it down, this will kill lights for that room, and stop the node producing power.
and finally, for your list comment. As I said at the top of this reply, Using the single resource, meaning there is only one resource to really worry about, adds a level of frustrating boredom to the game.
The main reason for this idea is to add another major element to ns2, without overcomplicating it, in order to make the game more dynamic and interesting. and, among other things, it supports two key ns2 design philosophies:
Asymetrical gameplay: this resource is only for marines.
Rooms with lighting going on and off indicates contested area: if you only need to damage 10%, or repair 10% in order to change the state of the node, then the rooms will look more interesting, with the lights going on and off.
note: Don't forget that if the aliens completely destroy a new node, a new one is required. Indicating the aliens have essentially captured that room... for now.
Finally, I really enjoyed those last two replies from ogz and DarkOmen. They were both on topic, and gave me something to talk about regarding the idea, rather than forcing me to tell people off for simply trashing an idea.
Actually working on a suggestion of my own including your work (with citation).
(http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115565)