Rambo, To Scold Or Praise.

Soujiro_The_TenkenSoujiro_The_Tenken Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10655Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Personal experiences.</div> I realize the point of marines is to emphasize on teamwork, but can a little infiltration help us out?
I played a few weeks ago on ehh(dont remember the name, the map with sewer/gen/hive i will refer to as "middle hive") the aliens started out in middle hive, after a few control swaps they ended up with sewer hive as well, my fellow troops endlessly assaulted it, trying to get sieges up in the room next to it. It was a near pointless battle, they had fades perched up on the ladder leading into the room, cost our team many many resources from all the destroyed tfacts. Eventually I became tired of this, and wandered off to gen hive, which we had a mini base in but wasn't active with enemy forces. I continued on my way twords middle hive, came to the resource tower(after the tunnel with drop down door/lader) The aliens had it, but were too busy to put defenses by it, so i knifed it, half expecting to get eaten by a skulk. I managed to remove the tower, and proceeded twords their main hive. I wasn't suprised there were no defenses in the hive (I didn't kill the hive, since i knew i couldnt, also aliens generally don't build defenses in first hive unless it's attacked), so i listened for near by skulks, and knifed their movement chambers when it was quiet. I took down 2 movements, then proceeded to knife their res tower right next to the hive, this tipped them off, but i got lucky and added 2 skulks to my kill record, somehow managing to knife the res tower to death.

While I consider this strategy to be based totally around luck, it has worked for me and a few other players several times, a single rambo can be helpful, but if you have more than one it defeats the purpose. Also, this works out well if the aliens are saving for 2nd hive, and your rambo happens to stumble upon their gorge, this puts them back big time if your rambo can take out the fatty(A player by the name of Lvl 9 Gorge Hunter did this a lot, the server he's a regular on generally guards their gorges a bit better now)

Just wondering if anyone has any comments on this.
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Comments

  • njkSherrynjkSherry Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8946Members
    I saw this thread, found it pretty enteresting. I never used to Rambo much, t8ill the last 3-4 days. I now full on Rambo, and in the last 3-4 days as a Marine,a s long as I play 'from the start", I have yet to lose a game. My friend, [neo] Killing You Softly comms. I tell teh WHOLE team to stay at base,a nd the instant spawn, i rush "a hive" and take RT's immediately. Im good enough, where I can take 4-5 skulks down and build still. Neo has my trust and knows my capabilities. But, when I didn't used to Rambo, we stood a 50/50 chance. Getting a RT in a hive 30 seconds into the game, doubles or even triples the chances of the Marines winning. Cause then they start getting cash, fast (I usually take 2 RT's that are nearby cloes to eachother and patrol both, then he saves for Phase ASAP and he phases to the Hive). I have yet to lose. The instant he gets a phase up in alien hive, I rambo to the next hive. (I also Gorge hunt inbetween, but I don't usally stop guarding those 2 RT's).
    Its a, for the most part, flawless strategy. Although, some maps I get 1-2 people taht follow me Ramboing, and "thats" when we paticurally lose. Usually within 30-60 seconds with the first Alien rush.
    Although, I frequently get yelled at by other Marines on my team when I do this tactic. They complain I get to have all the fun, while they get stuck buildling. I see the problem with my tactic, I see it is kind of lopsided. But I tested 2 maps straight, i volunteered other people to try it themselves, they got eaten stepping out of the base within the first 10 seconds. :-/
  • armgimpeharmgimpeh Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10783Members
    As a regular 'Rambo', I can say that those of us who are 'team Rambos' can be a valuable part of the Marine team.

    Generally, commanders catch on very quickly that I am more than capable of building <i>and</i> watching my back very well. Let's take the scenario of building a resource tower.

    1. I get to the resource node, only shooting at any aliens who notice me.
    2. Commander drops the tower and I start building.
    3. Halfway through building, I stop and listen. I have found that aliens rarely take silence and when they hear building, they rush in.
    4. If I am happy that no aliens are about, I resume building. If I think there are aliens, I kill them.
    5. I finish the tower and let my commander decide what to do with me.

    I follow the same building process when I build outposts with siege and phase gates. I agree that Rambos who rush off and get themselves killed are useless, but if you have a competent Rambo on your team, use him to great effect!
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--[arm]gimpeh+Dec 17 2002, 01:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([arm]gimpeh @ Dec 17 2002, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a regular 'Rambo', I can say that those of us who are 'team Rambos' can be a valuable part of the Marine team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "Team Rambo" is an oxymoron. Rambos are used to refer to those who whine for weapons and equipment, run out on their own, get killed, and then whine again while telling the comm he sucks.

    If you're going out on your own, doing it wisely, and getting something accomplished, that's not Ramboing, that's just holding your own.
  • DebonairDebonair Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10399Members
    One time on Bast I snuck into one of their hives ( ventilation I think, I proceeded to ask com for a turret factory, I slowly built it only when I heard fire fights, afterwards he upgraded it, we got a good siege in their, and it was hilarious watching the skulks try and figure out where it ewas coming from, bwahahaha.
  • RavlenRavlen Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7713Members
    This is what I do often when my friend commands. He'll send the team off to do something towards one hive, and he assigns me the job of "gorge hunter". I'll spend the entire first part of the game just hunting gorges. I'll run around looking for used resource towers, and I almost always can track down at least one gorge early on, which helps us out a whole lot.

    Also, I often find the gorge at an empty hive (probably saving up to build). Once I kill the gorge, I'm usually given a phase gate, so we can control that hive now. All it took was one quiet marine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Ravlen
  • BlueGhostBlueGhost Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10337Members
    Rambo's CAN be usefull, problem is ramboing is generally an anti-social behaviour on the marines part, (probably caused by some deep rooted phsychological problems which eather caused them to become a marine in the first place or were gained while they were marines).

    Generally rambo's fail to obey orders and are just out their to shoot stuff.

    Intelligent rambo's can be a boon to commanders PROVIDED they talk to the com, if a player rambo's off at the start it pisses me off no end because I've had afew games where litrally half the team has rambo'ed off leaving two people in base to cover AND build *sigh*

    BlueGhost
  • chia-onochia-ono Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10053Members
    Rambo worth praise are the ones who finds a favorable spot and dont attack anything until he gets the commander's attention to drop a phase gate.

    Rambo who starts shooting everything he see first and makes the enemy fortify an area deserves scolding. If you think about it, it only matters if you actually help the team to win. In your situation, I wouldn't touch the resource tower in shipping tunnel. I'd tell commander to drop phase gate then siege the ventilation hive. Since you already have one hive, sieging the second one = winning the game. However, if you were to rambo when aliens have 3 hives... you might as well have some fun losing by killing some defenseless buildings <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
  • VenmochVenmoch Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1093Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Ravlen+Dec 18 2002, 02:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravlen @ Dec 18 2002, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is what I do often when my friend commands. He'll send the team off to do something towards one hive, and he assigns me the job of "gorge hunter". I'll spend the entire first part of the game just hunting gorges. I'll run around looking for used resource towers, and I almost always can track down at least one gorge early on, which helps us out a whole lot.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats a great idea!

    Gorge Hunter! He prays on innocent Gorges and wins us the game!

    (Please Note, that was serious!)
  • eagleceaglec Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9948Members, Constellation
    I was in comm yesterday and only 2 of the team of 8 followed orders at all. The rest whinned about health and ammo and rambo'd arround getting killed. Fortunatley after we(me and the 2 that followed orders) captured the 2nd hive they regrouped and we kicked **obscenity**. I can honestly say that if they had not split into three groups and gone about messing with the aliens plans we probably would not have won.
    It's an ill wind, but if someone rambo's solo without actually helping the team when I'm in comm they get no health or ammo until I see results!
  • dumbodumbo Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8373Members
    "Rambo worth praise are the ones who finds a favorable spot and dont attack anything until he gets the commander's attention to drop a phase gate."

    "I wouldn't touch the resource tower in shipping tunnel. I'd tell commander to drop phase gate then siege the ventilation hive."

    Yes, I agree entirely.

    For commanders:
    1 Build a phase first. NOT A TFAC, please, never tell a lone marine to build a tfac unless they are in really obscure location.
    2 Scream at people to go through the phase gate.
    3 Scream at people to STAY by the phase gate, not to attack anything, and DO NOT GO INTO THE HIVE.
    4 Build a tfac.
    5 Upgrade the tfac <- DO NOT BUILD TURRETS, they are completely inadequate, and tend to give away the position.
    6 Build a siege [or 2].
    7 Build turrets if required.
    8 Send a welder to the site at some stage.
    9 Revel in the sweet smell of success.
  • Soujiro_The_TenkenSoujiro_The_Tenken Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10655Members
    Those who said "here's what I would have done", I didn't really have a chance, our commander was deadset on trying to take sewer and he didn't really pay attention to me.
  • LumanisLumanis Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10605Members
    It is too risky building for a rambo.
    I don't know how many times I'v wasted money on a TF or Phase Gate.

    Other times, a rambo can single handedly win a match.

    When I command, I try for the 5 minute victory.
    When this fails, I notice that Marines need to be split into 2 groups (this usually happens naturally).
    Generally if all of your marines are trying to attack the same hive, the attack will be thwarted.
    However, sometimes if the aliens are distracted at a differen't hive, you can slip 2-3 marines in and have a small base setup before the aliens realize there are 2 seige cannons pounding on their defenses.
  • VigilantiaVigilantia Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 51Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--GWB+Dec 18 2002, 04:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GWB @ Dec 18 2002, 04:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What do u call a single person going off by himself? Rambo.

    What do u call a small group of marines going off my themselves? Navy Seals

    If I see two people that I know, I sometimes ask them to move to a hive and secure it pending that its empty. I send everyone else to set up a base near the enemy's main hive and proceed to rush it. The purpose of the small infiltration unit is to secure hive 1, resources, and a siege near hive 2 while most of the enemy concentrates on defending main hive.

    I typically dont like rambos, because they have to build AND watch their own back. I prefer teams of at least 2.

    GWB<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    what do you call a person who goes off by himself with a commanders orders then? (a spy) When the aliens are so consintrated on one single part of the map, then you can easily sneak a infiltrator in and build a phase gate or etc. O and by the way, I was once a lone marine on ns_nothing (one with gen hive room) i think, and the comm ordered me to the gen hive room and that was their main hive. We were able to build one Tfac and 2 turrets (they were unbuilt because I was RIGHT behind their hive) be4 they killed me. I LMAO on that one seeing as how the aliens are always so unobservant in their base. Also, I spent about 12 mins hiding behind their hive be4 they noticed me. (in the little vent behind the generator room. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I found that quite sad for the aliens.
  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Typically I rambo, but only because i try and get people to go in a group and infiltrate a hive, but no one listens so i go alone. But anyways, the best Strat is to sneek into a hive, take out the gorge if there is one, then build a phase and then get about 3-4 marines to lock it down and have the others lock down the other.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    It seems to me like the difference between noobs and newbies. Newbies are new to the game and would like to be better at playing it, and advice is listened to by them. Noobs on the other hand are complete morons who think that whatever they do, not matter how stupid is right.

    Players who run off and attack stuff left and right without accomplishing anything are useless rambos. Players like myself who cannot trust other team-mates to be silent, or be able to aim, and go to useful places/hunt gorges can really help the team. Send one guy to one hive to keep gorges out, while the rest of the team goes to the next unnoccupied hive. Then when the commander researches MT (early, I hope), the person in the hive becomes a hell of a lot harder to uproot. Gorge hunting is also a good thing. One person running around, patrolling the map for gorges can really help the team. I can remember many times I have prevented our marine team from losing due to a bad commander.

    Letting the commander know what you are doing is essential! If you just wander off and expect him to somehow know exactly what you are doing is not going to happen. I
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    edited December 2002
  • dumbodumbo Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8373Members
    "It is too risky building for a rambo.
    I don't know how many times I've wasted money on a TF or Phase Gate."

    I would *never* build a tfac with a rambo [unless things are very, very desperate], but a phase gate is often worthwhile...
    - it's 20 RPs
    - it grants your team immediate access to the area
    - it builds quickly
    - it's hard to destroy
    - it can tilt the balance in your favour
    - it is by far the best piece of equipment available to the marines

    On the other hand, how often have you "wasted resources" on:
    - 6 turrets, only for 3 skulks to take out the tfac, and then the turrets?
    - a shotgun, which gets lost within 10 seconds?
    - a set of HA that never gets welded?
    - a welder that gets picked up by the wrong person, never to be seen again?
    - an HMG for someone to camp in a corner of base with?
    - a phase gate in a hive, that the marines refuse to use unless they have HA/HMG?
    - half a dozen medkits that rot and disappear?
    - a resource collector that gets eaten before it's built?
    - a tfac that sits awaiting rebuilding for 10 minutes?

    IMHO rambos should provide 'options' to commanders, whether the option is worth taking is a decision for the commander.
  • GWBGWB Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8682Members
    What do u call a single person going off by himself? Rambo.

    What do u call a small group of marines going off my themselves? Navy Seals

    If I see two people that I know, I sometimes ask them to move to a hive and secure it pending that its empty. I send everyone else to set up a base near the enemy's main hive and proceed to rush it. The purpose of the small infiltration unit is to secure hive 1, resources, and a siege near hive 2 while most of the enemy concentrates on defending main hive.

    I typically dont like rambos, because they have to build AND watch their own back. I prefer teams of at least 2.

    GWB
  • ArchzaiArchzai Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8007Members
    Rofl... me and a friend both got HA HMG and welders.. fnuny **obscenity**... raped 6 fades.. (i did).. and my friend got a few... tonsa kills... good teamwork .. even a pair... best is three.. can do wonders.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DooM_Space_MarineDooM_Space_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10670Members
    I have to admit, I rambo sometimes too, but it's only if it's for the good of the cause. When the marines have a hive but start walling in cause they're under constant Fade attack, for example. I once went to Eclipse hive on ns_eclipse on my own, knifed the D and movement chambers and set up outpost/killed hive, so we were at 2 hives under control which made things a lot easier and made me---err, us--- win the game <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> But other times it just ends up in horrible failure for the team =[
  • SmithboySmithboy Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10964Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--[arm]gimpeh+Dec 17 2002, 12:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([arm]gimpeh @ Dec 17 2002, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a regular 'Rambo', I can say that those of us who are 'team Rambos' can be a valuable part of the Marine team.

    Generally, commanders catch on very quickly that I am more than capable of building <i>and</i> watching my back very well. Let's take the scenario of building a resource tower.

    1. I get to the resource node, only shooting at any aliens who notice me.
    2. Commander drops the tower and I start building.
    3. Halfway through building, I stop and listen. I have found that aliens rarely take silence and when they hear building, they rush in.
    4. If I am happy that no aliens are about, I resume building. If I think there are aliens, I kill them.
    5. I finish the tower and let my commander decide what to do with me.

    I follow the same building process when I build outposts with siege and phase gates. I agree that Rambos who rush off and get themselves killed are useless, but if you have a competent Rambo on your team, use him to great effect!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is probably a good example where upgrading your observatory early can be beneficial. Survey the area before you build and if it's safe, start building. You can stop and check again through the building process and the commander can also inform you if any enemies approaching.
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    I don't mind you rambo-ing off if you've shown me that you follow orders, work with the team when needed, and *can* kill a skulk by yourself.

    When I assign someone an 'infiltration' job though, I tell them to approach it like a ninja and be sneaky about it, not run in with guns blazing.

    BTW, a jetpack is *required* in a sneak job.
  • J2pcJ2pc Join Date: 2002-12-05 Member: 10485Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Smithboy+Dec 18 2002, 12:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Smithboy @ Dec 18 2002, 12:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is probably a good example where upgrading your observatory early can be beneficial. Survey the area before you build and if it's safe, start building. You can stop and check again through the building process and the commander can also inform you if any enemies approaching.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A few things to keep in mind when u r using motion-tracking.

    A) It doesn't work when u build
    B) On some servers it works bad
    C) If they sit still, u don't see them

    Still, I think motion-tracking can be VERY usefull. especially when 3 skulks try to rush 5 marines from a vent and 3 marines are amaing at it, while the 2 others watch the corridors <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    I think the servers it works bad r the linux-servers, I read that somewhere, but I don't know if it is true. I hope they fix it soon.
  • BlueGhostBlueGhost Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10337Members
    Can confirm that on the windows server I played on motion tracking worked amazingly well up to the point of showing the aliens on the commanders mini map!

    BlueGhost
  • TwitchyTwitchy Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10105Banned
    When I rambo, I go out with only a knife and chase around fades.
  • King_titanKing_titan Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10776Members
    this only happens in "less experienced" pubs. If you play in one of those very few pubs where good players play, a player who goes out by his lonesome is completely crap. Unless hes sent on a mission by a commander to build a pg or whatever ( thats not called a "rambo")... But a player that decides to run off by himself since he joins the marine team, without following any orders can 'work' in newb pubs, but not a good server or matches/scrims
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    I consider myself a highly effective loner, ESP with a jetpack.

    Twitch reflexes honed in C-strike.

    Jetpack skills perfected in Tribes 2.

    And after doing a full 10 theif missions lythian style (IE: Don't be seen at all, don't cause any alerts, and don't do any damage to anything), I consider myself a "Sneakey lil' SOB."
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Ramboing is pointless in any kind of real game. I define Rambo players as people that:
    1)Do not follow orders
    2)Often insult other players
    3)Shoot anything that moves, giving away their position
    4)Don't pay attention the big picture of things
    Rambo players often prove to be highly counter-productive and unhelpful.

    Going off on your own, with orders and occasional help from the commander, is quite useful. Such tactics have been described before in many other threads, with names ranging from spy to greasemonkey to my own moniker, "The Commander's Handyman." In any case, a lone infiltrator can be very useful under the right circumstances. Many, many times the marines have had their butts saved by some loner sent through a vent to slap down a phase gate and cc at a hive. I've managed success with such tactics even with Onos pounding on the front door!
  • Timo_TribalTimo_Tribal Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2876Members
    I suppose that i too could be considered a Rambo, but thats only because i played aliens so much to keep teams even before the patch and i still rush like a skulk. Nearly every game i play as marine, the whole team stands in base waiting for skulk rushes while thier gorges are claiming hives/resources. I'll Spam "Rush an empty hive" at the start of a map and if anyone comes with me then thats good but if they dont i'll go by myself and get a base built in a hive. I dont see any point in turtleing up marine start or claiming every node. They are of minimal strategical value whereas the hives mean everything and usually have res in em too. Sure i die but i never take weapons with me or heavy armour, they are not needed. so i'm not costing the commander anything. I play on the basis of stopping the aliens getting 2 hives, never mind three. Often marines dont listen to thier commanders but many times commanders dont listen to their maines and that also can cost the game.
  • XiaoXiaoXiaoXiao Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9543Members
    My god people....I don't know how many countless times the commander handed me a jetpack and a HMG and i just charged that hive with no backup(rambo). I guess people could say I was lucky...but....I did that more than 5 times. So rambo has a place in the NS society.
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